a garden snake that can turn into a giant hydra,spit out ten thousand snakes,regenerate from anything,has the greatest kawarimi,took on a 4tk naruto and toyed with it while weakened will easily beat a giant whose only hope of winning can be countered by many ways
Orochimaru vs kakashi
- Thread starter akimofnevis
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akimofnevis
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fourth kazekage
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ive never seen anyone with this kind of argument before,neverxd.
Oro's regen+kawarimi+snakes+hydra pretty much make kamui almost a non-factor here
akimofnevis
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what does oro wants , the sharingan, why, because before that eye all of oro jutsu is trash
fourth kazekage
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oro wants the sharingan in an uchhas body as well,so kakashi dosent qualify,and i'd like to see hoe kakashi's sharingan can take tenthousand snakes and hydra mode spam.
UchiGod Itachi
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Me and my alt account? What are you talking about? I didn't even quoted you, i never even mentioned Sasuke. But yeah i believe Kakashi rapes Oro. Maybe the fight won't take more than minutes. Oro is weak against Sharingan, not even to mention a MS user. Kamui GG
UchiGod Itachi
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Sure if you say Curse Mark + Sage Mode + Eight Branches Technique + Poison + Edo
Edo Hashirama the Mangekyo Sharingan destroyer nite nite kakashi
akimofnevis
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VisionOfDisorder
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It's quite surprising how hotly debated this is now, I think people underestimate Orochimaru because they haven't seen him reveal any new jutsu or power-ups in so long, but they don't realize that Oro has been powered-DOWN for the majority of the series thus far. We have also never seen a full power Orochimaru pushed to his limit in battle (being bested by genjutsu doesn't count.) The first time we saw him show what could be called a fighting style was against 4-tail Naruto, before that he was always either toying with opponents (vs. Sasuke) or fighting remotely through Edo Tensei (vs. Hiruzen).
When Jiraiya and Tsunade are really pushed to their limits, they show amazing feats like holding one's own against the Six Paths Of Pain with NO KNOWLEDGE, or surviving and keeping comerades alive against Madara. The Sannin are no joke and Orochimaru is IMO easily the most dangerous of the three. The Kakashi who feared Oro in part 1 wasn't even aware of half of what he was capable of, only knowing him from what elders had told him.
When Jiraiya and Tsunade are really pushed to their limits, they show amazing feats like holding one's own against the Six Paths Of Pain with NO KNOWLEDGE, or surviving and keeping comerades alive against Madara. The Sannin are no joke and Orochimaru is IMO easily the most dangerous of the three. The Kakashi who feared Oro in part 1 wasn't even aware of half of what he was capable of, only knowing him from what elders had told him.
blazekev90
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Orochimaru could be Kakashi without his arms IMO. W/o his arms still has hydra mode, poison and duration and we saw how he took on the 4-tails in sick conditions and even nearly defeated sasuke
In part1, Oro was probably in his prime(51years old), when Kakashi was a young shinobi(26). If a young Kakashi was already able to finish a prime Oro it wouldn't even have been funny. Kakashi still had a great margin to improve himself, what he did and we can clearly see the huge difference between current Kakashi and himself in part1, when it's not the case for Orochimaru. In the contrary i think he became weaker, since he lost all his jutsus against Sarutobi. Saying that because he feared Orochimaru in part1, it means it's still the same is ignoring manga facts. I can also say that Sasuke feared Orochimaru in part1, but now he shits on him.
Sharingan has always been Orochimarus weakness, and Kakashi developped even MS. I think you're the one who either overestimate Orochimaru, or underrate Kakashi
Not underrating Oro, but Kakashi already surpassed him. Kamui is really overpowered and Orochimaru has nothing to handle it
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part 1 oro never showed hydra,ten thousadn snakes,super regen etc,and he did all these without arms,part 1 kakashi was a pest to oro,so dont even bring him up as part of your debate.
Sasuke and suigetsu somewhat agreed that oro with arms would beat sasuke,who has the ems. Oro wasnt weak to a sharingan,his dimension could be affected by sharingan genutsu abilities,which is what both itachi and sasuke were able to take advantage of,he was basically on his deathbed when sasuke attacked him,but he still could have killed sasuke if he wanted,infact sasuke had to go cs2 just to counter iri's snakes,oro's blood poisoned sasuke and paralyzed hi and oro would have killed him easily at that time if he wanted,but he didnt want sasuke dead. So sharingan isnt oro's weakness at all when he wants to kill you.
Oro as already mentioned in posts above you,has many counters to kamui,and kakashi has basically no counters to oro. Sorry,but oro without handseals(arms) has hydra mode,snake mode,ten thousand snake spam,regeneration,rebirth spam,poisoned blood,multipl boss summons,rashomon gate summoning etc. Sorry,kakashi just can't beat orochimaru
Many counters to Kamui?
Actually, Kakashi is the PERFECT counter for Oro himself. Orochimaru is almost immortal, you'll smash his body and it will regenerate, you will cut it in half, it will regenerate... you can even SEAL HIM with Totsuka, and he can still survive. However, please tell me what Orochimaru can do about being sucked into the other dimension. Kakashi already showed us that he can Kamui a whole person in an absolute instant.
Kakashi's current Kamui speed is so great it's not even funny. Obito, with Sharingan's perception capability and having stated that he will keep his eye on Kakashi, still didn't notice Naruto's clone being kamuied half a meter from him. In other words, Orochimaru won't even be able to notice, yet alone counter, Kakashi's kamui.
And once Orochimaru is in the other dimension, his immortality won't mean anything, game over.
Ahh, one more thing - Orochimaru fought on par against a V2 jinchuuriki, which is a feat, it's true.
But Kakashi fought on par against several immortal V2 jinchuurikis while trying to conserve his chakra at the same time. Not to mention he was already after some battles.
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akimofnevis
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sharigan is oro's weakness,everytime he faces someone with the sharigan he loses,after he got sasuke's body and was going to kill itachi,itachi countered his hydra mode easily, the sharigan sees everything
VisionOfDisorder
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Ok well just to start, I wasn't using the reference to part 1 to compare them, I'm using it to make a point that Kakashi (already an elite jonin) feared Orochimaru before he even knew most of what he was capable of, I'm fully aware that Kakashi in part 1 and 2 are vaaaastly different.
Kakashi and Orochimaru are both adults, they have an equal chance to improve over an equal amount of time. Orochimaru acctually has more rescources to gain superior jutsu with his knowledge of forbidden techs, don't claim that Kakashi improved more just because he has a name-brand powerup like MS to prove it, Orochimaru himself said that he would never stop until he aquires every jutsu known to man, unless you believe he has already done this, there is room for him to improve. yknow?
Second, Orochimaru's weakness was always sharingan GENJUTSU. Always, when bested by Itachi or Sasuke it was always via genjutsu. kakashi posesses different MS powers and has never shown a sharingan genjutsu tech.
EDIT: Ooops i forgot i was going to say that I don't see Kakashi hitting Oro with Kamui, or in slithering snake form he would at least avoid it enough to have it not hit him in a vital spot. (Like deidara did, losing an arm and not his head.) btw I know Kakashi is quicker with Kamui now than he was before, but Oro is also faster than Deidara in reflexes and movement.
okay noww im done.
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hatake axel
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You can see that kakashi is among my favorite characters.
but he stands no chance againts orochimaru u.u
but he stands no chance againts orochimaru u.u
how is kamui going to take out formation of 10k snakes? how is kamui gonna hit oro when oro uses leech all creation? how is kamui gonna take out hydra mode? kakashi's ms (to my understanding) isn't even ready at all times. he has to charge it up. edo tensei teh 1st and 2nd. bringer of darkness. it's over. edo tensei is a more hax skill thank kamui and takes little effort and chakra for oro...
It's not that he didn't knew Orochimarus arsenal. It's that he felt Orochimaru was stronger than him eventhough he didn't saw his arsenal, it was his personal feeling, so it has nothing to do with knowing his full arsenal or not. Kakashi has already shown he was able to evaluate someone hiding power even if he didn't used it. He knew Itachi had a hiding power when he fought him the first time, that's why he said to Kurenai and Asuma "he didn't even started yet, he is stronger than that". He also knew Naruto had the potential to surpass Yondaime, and that was loonnnng before he even become that strong. Like also when he felt Pain was stronger without even fighting himself(it was a clone), without knowing his full arsenal eventhough he fought bravely later. So, like i've said, he felt that Orochimaru was still stronger at that time, knowing his arsenal or not. Orochimaru also doesn't know Kakashis full arsenal, but he still felt himself as superior
What i'm saying is that Orochimaru already had his long way as a shinobi, had much more time to improve himself as a shinobi, much more experience also in battle. You can't say that the Orochimaru who fought Hanzo(probably around Kakashis age at that time) for example(along with Tsunade, Jiraya and others) was as strong as the current, and he wasn't that strong simply because he was too young at that moment, less abilities, less experience, etc
At that moment he still had a great time to improve himself and become a better shinobi, exactly like Kakashi right now. But when you reach a certain age, your body capacities become weaker, and it's exactly what must happen with Orochimaru. Why do you think he always changes body? It's for that reason
You can't say that at 60years old for example, you can still do everything you could do at 20years old. Now you're talking about the forbidden jutsus he wants to learn. It's true that with experiments, he can still manage to develop some jutsus, but that is the only thing he can improve again. His battle capabilities in the contrary(taijutsu especially) are definitely becoming weaker with the time, and that's the great difference with a young Shinobi like Kakashi. Not saying that Orochimaru can't improve himself, but they are far from having equal chances to improve. Orochimarus prime is almost at his end.
The only thing he can do now to improve himself is doing his experiments as usual to developp some new jutsus. And when we even know that Sarutobi sealed his arms, he couldn't even improve his jutsus anymore. That are some reasons why i think part2 Orochimaru is much more weaker than himself in part1
What you don't understand is that part1 Orochimaru was stronger than part2 Orochimaru. He lost all his jutsus against Sarutobi, so he is obviously weaker, even Suigetsu said that recently
This part is wrong. Firstly because Kakashi has already shown sharingan genjutsus in more than one occasion. Secondly is that you're underestimating Kamui greatly, it's an instant warping jutsu. Don't know how Orochimaru escape that. It's as if you were saying that Orochimaru can escape if Obito begins to warp him. If he can't escape Obitos kamui, he can't escape Kakashis kamui which is even faster(said by Obito himself)
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