Orochimaru vs Hiruzen

[Owarij]

Orochimaru was at 100% health when he fought Hiruzen during the invasion.
Hiruzen was already way past his prime but he still managed to fend him off.

If Hiruzen was at his prime he'd destroy Orochimaru.



I agree Hiruzen would win, but it's said he knew every technique in the Hidden Leaf. Not that he could perform every technique

Just clarifying

nope

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At one point in time he could use every existing Konoha jutsu, most likely excluding kkgs and hiden

Or hereyou go

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[NLee]

you do know he could have killed him before the fight even started right?? Oro got excitment out of that fight and barely did anything. His arrogance got the best of him as usual. Hiruzen prime would have been more interesting tho.

If you're referring to when Orochimaru stabbed his own hand, then I disagree. Hiruzen claimed "I thought so".

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If he suspected Orochimaru would really attack him then he wouldn't have stayed still.

 

[NLee]

nope

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At one point in time he could use every existing Konoha jutsu, most likely excluding kkgs and hiden

Or hereyou go

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Spoiler

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That was before Kishi even introduced Kekkei Genkais. How would Hiruzen perform Sharingan techniques or the Hyuuga's Byakugan or Jyuuken?

Or unique techniques like the Aburame's bug techniques when he doesn't have them in his body?

Or Water, Lightning, and Wind techniques if he doesn't have all the elements?


I almost never go against Kishi's word but this is an exception.

 

[Owarij]

That was before Kishi even introduced Kekkei Genkais. How would Hiruzen perform Sharingan techniques or the Hyuuga's Byakugan or Jyuuken?

Or unique techniques like the Aburame's bug techniques when he doesn't have them in his body?

Or Water, Lightning, and Wind techniques if he doesn't have all the elements?


I almost never go against Kishi's word but this is an exception.
This wasn't before kishi introduced kekke genkai's..... Do you not recall haku? And look at what itachi said carefully, He could use all existing Konoha jutsu, Firstly I hope you know sharingan isn't a jutsu, Its a doujutsu, a genetically passed down bloodline trait.......Same with byakugan....The thing sharingan uses- aka tsukyomi etc are the jutsu, In anyways, its obvious when hiruzen was appointed "Professor" which would be sometime in his prime, back in the 2nd hokage era, Noone had any mangekyou sharingan abilities....The last known users were dead or supposed dad (Madara/izuna) Konoha was just founded and couldn't have been as big as it is now..... At first there were only 2 clans (Uchiha and senju), others joined in afterwards, Wind has always been a rare element in konoha, so i doubt he has that, but its very possible he has the other 4....Orochimaru his own student, Iruka and that special jounin guy seem to all believe he can use a shit load of jutsu......the special jounin guy told konohmaru over 1000 techniques , which is comparable to that of kakashi which he copied, You just need to note Orochimaru said it in PAST tense , he knew and could.....Not what current translations say, know and can use, And ps - Hiden techs like shikimaru's ect be taught to anyone, they just keep it in their clans

Its just a matter of kishi clarrifying what clans were in Konoha at the time he was appointed professor

What makes me truly believe this, Is that Minato was supposed to be the only one able to use the Death God Reaper seal, and he learnt it, It seems he just has a talent for learning people's jutsu lol

 

[NLee]

This wasn't before kishi introduced kekke genkai's..... Do you not recall haku? And look at what itachi said carefully, He could use all existing Konoha jutsu, Firstly I hope you know sharingan isn't a jutsu, Its a doujutsu, a genetically passed down bloodline trait.......Same with byakugan....The thing sharingan uses- aka tsukyomi etc are the jutsu, In anyways, its obvious when hiruzen was appointed "Professor" which would be sometime in his prime, back in the 2nd hokage era, Noone had any mangekyou sharingan abilities....The last known users were dead or supposed dad (Madara/izuna) Konoha was just founded and couldn't have been as big as it is now..... At first there were only 2 clans (Uchiha and senju), others joined in afterwards, Wind has always been a rare element in konoha, so i doubt he has that, but its very possible he has the other 4....Orochimaru his own student, Iruka and that special jounin guy seem to all believe he can use a shit load of jutsu......the special jounin guy told konohmaru over 1000 techniques , which is comparable to that of kakashi which he copied, You just need to note Orochimaru said it in PAST tense , he knew and could.....Not what current translations say, know and can use, And ps - Hiden techs like shikimaru's ect be taught to anyone, they just keep it in their clans

Its just a matter of kishi clarrifying what clans were in Konoha at the time he was appointed professor

It's true Haku's Hyoton was early in the series, but what I was referring to was the actual explanation of Kekkei Genkais, i.e., when Kakashi and Yamato were explaining it

I'll admit that's a great point. But take for example the Hyuuga Clan. Even if you don't consider their Byakugan as a technique, their fighting style, Jyuuken, is a technique. The 64 Strikes or the Kaiten for example are techniques. The Hyuuga were stated to be among Konoha's oldest clans so its safe to say they were around during Hiruzen's reign.

And you're absolutely correct about hidden techniques like the Nara clan's shadow being passed down within their clans. I still feel argumentative about other certain ones like the Aburame's bugs, but for the most part I'll let this point go

But something that still argues against the fact that Hiruzen could use all techniques in Konoha are the elemental techniques. We've seen him use Fire and Earth techniques already so those are under his belt. But what about the other three? Yeah, you're right, he very well could have them but it's doubtful.

For the sake of argument let's just say he had Water. They weren't near large bodies of water so let's just assume that's why he didn't use it. But that still leaves Lightning and Wind.

From what I can understand, your point is that maybe there weren't Lightning and/or Wind element users during his time. That's why Orochimaru said it in past tense, right? Well, I find it hard to believe that during his reign that no one else had Lightning or Wind. Sakumo for example was a Lightning user and Asuma was a Wind user as well and they were both in Hiruzen's time

 

[-Liquid Cefka-]

Deff Hiruzen.

God of Shinobi.

 

[x15751x]

Hiruzen...