Onoki and Jiraiya vs Kakuzu and Sasori

[Zexion~]

I misinterpreted what you said in your other post. Thought you said OP could keep SM restricted but could unrestrict Jinton but it was the other way around. No Tsunade didn't enhance that Jinton.

Anyway, here is why Onoki and Jiraiya win.

Onoki will start the battle by creating a rock golem, and creating a clone. The clone will go on top of the rock golem like

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, then lighten the golem to give it a speed boost and enable it to fly. However, when the golem attacks with its fists, Onoki will

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. The rock golem is useful for a lot of things here:

Uh no for multiple reasons, you're having a clone which is basically half Onoki's power lighten something that large :lol, and constantly allowing it to fly? It would take more chakra than Onoki's clone has to keep that thing flying, along with the fact that Gian basically shits on it. If it needs to physically strike Kakuzu Gian reduces whatever part of the golem to nothing, especially if you're going to have Onoki's super chakra filled clone now make it heavier ultimately slowing him down. Need I remind you raiton>doton.

-Smashing Sasori's puppets.
-Punching away iron sand blocks.
-Smashing Kakuzu if he makes contact (Domu can't save him.)

Sure, but lightening it only makes it that much easier to break if Onoki can't time it perfectly, and if he doesn't time it perfectly its going to be a slow target for Kakuzu's gian which shits on it either way.

-Can be used to

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the team from Katon or Fuuton.

Except fuuton would encompass them all along with the golem.....it can counter the Katon yeah but then Gian would rip through it catching both of them off guard.

While Onoki does this, Jiraiya summons Gamabunta. Onoki can lighten Gamabunta to give him incredible leaping power allowing him to cross tremendous distances very quickly, so he simply jumps, then gauges his landing so that he lands on top of the target, and at the last minute Onoki (on top of Gamabunta) weighs him down, the food cart destroyer + weighted boulder combo crushing absolutely everything in its path.

I'm ****ing crying right now, lightening it means its going to fall down after the jump slowly like a deflated baloon, if he hardens right when he begins to fall it cant move at all so the duo doesn't need to move very much to avoid it.

A gian shot upwards would end that notion though, if not two.

Bunta would prove very useful against iron sand since he can spray IS with his toad oil, which

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. Toad Oil Flame bullet can also be used to overpower Kakuzu's katon+fuuton combo, and water bullets can kill Sasori once Iron Sand is out of the picture.

.....Iron and Normal sand have a completely different structure. Its called iron sand because it resembles sand in shape only not structure :lol come on now. Why do you think flame oil bullet is stronger than his larger or at the least equally large combination? Oil merely spreads the flames I believe, wind makes it hotter along with giving the flames more acceleration than oil (Just use RL examples, introduce flame to oil it spreads at average speed, introduce a blast of wind to flame it explodes) Honestly the notion that his toad oil bomb is that dangerous should have died when it was seen not even melting Manda's skin quickly.

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Wheras Kakuzu's weaker version was evaporating water near instantly. I'll let you decide which is more impressive :lol, how do water bullets kill Sasori exactly? Its not going to pierce his core.

Onoki and Jiraiya have a combo where Jiraiya uses Yomi Numa on a large scale, then Onoki uses

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to push the swamp above ground, where it will flow everywhere like lava from a volcano and

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, immobilizing him and making him an easy target for the next attack.

Kakuzu's Katon which literally rides the ground would intercept it and harden it immediately

Spoiler

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Not to mention its mud, it doesn't spread very fast in the first place.

-Large iron sand blocks punched away by golem, or disabled with toad oil.

@Bold, No

Onoki's CLONE is going to be able to precicesly switch between jutsu time after time to stop all incoming attacks? If this thing isn't wrecked by Gian by now Sasori can spawn IS over the golem and merely stab Onoki/Clone

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If that doesn't work ISWO shits.

-Iron Sand World Order or iron sand bullets are tanked by Jiraiya's hair.

Lmfao, what? What has his hair tanked again? If its used against ISWO its not a smooth and solid surface so he'd be stuck regardless. Its not tanking shit.

-100 puppets get raped by Art of the Raging Lion's Mane, burnt to crisp with Toad Oil Flame Bullet, smashed by the rock golem, crushed by Gamabunta...BTW, poison won't be as effective against a giant toad summon as it would be against a human target since Gamabunta has much more blood in his system therefore it would dilute the poison. A huge amount of poison would have to enter Bunta's bloodstream before it kills him and Sasori doesn't have a way of doing that fast enough.

If one blood cell gets infected the proess of celldivision and meiosis would make sure the poison spreads, has nothing to do with how much blood you have.

-Katon or Fuuton from Kakuzu is tanked by the rock golem.
-Raiton: Gian is dodged.

How can it be dodged if its busy tanking other things?

-If Kakuzu's threads somehow catch Onoki, he can use the weighted boulder jutsu to make them fall away [

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]. Threads won't ever reach Jiraiya since he can burn them away with Katon before they reach him.

Lmfao what? Despite them catching someone with better reflexes in Kakashi with a quicker and more effective way to deal with them in raikiri? If they catch Onoki that and he heavies them that would only make his binds that much stronger.

All of Kakuzu and Sasori's offensive moves are countered, and they can't deal with Gamabunta and the rock golem while simultaneously being pressured by Jiraiya and Onoki (both of whom can use clones to increase the versatility of their attacks.) Jiraiya and Onoki make a good team and complement each other's abilities, whereas Kakuzu's large scale attacks will only hurt Sasori's puppets should he choose to use them.

Not really you have them dealing with so much shit if one is trying to counter IS they get hit by Kakuzu's jutsu and vice versa.

Overall Jiraiya and Onoki win mid difficulty, and this is not even factoring in that Jiraiya starts with Ma and Pa summoned in which case Jiraiya can fly away while they prep frog song, then comes back and one shots with the genjutsu.

Ma and Pa are easily taken down when not attatched to Jiraiya.

 

[Beans2]

Uh no for multiple reasons, you're having a clone which is basically half Onoki's power lighten something that large :lol, and constantly allowing it to fly? It would take more chakra than Onoki's clone has to keep that thing flying, along with the fact that Gian basically shits on it. If it needs to physically strike Kakuzu Gian reduces whatever part of the golem to nothing, especially if you're going to have Onoki's super chakra filled clone now make it heavier ultimately slowing him down. Need I remind you raiton>doton.

You don't have to constantly use chakra to keep something lightened. You use the jutsu once, and it's lightened until you make it heavy again, seen by how Onoki lightened Kurotsuchi and Akatsuchi and they remained flying for the entire turtle island arc. If full power Onoki can pick up Turtle Island with one hand, then a clone can make a golem (something much, much smaller than the turtle) fly, especially since lightened boulder was never implied to be a chakra taxing technique.

Raiton Gian can only destroy part of the golem due to its massive size. Pretty sure it is a piercing attack which would just drill right through the golem and destroy a small portion of it. Saying it destroys the whole golem because it is raiton is the equivalent to saying Raikiri destroys the whole thing, despite Raikiri being unable to hit the entirety of the golem at once.

Sure, but lightening it only makes it that much easier to break if Onoki can't time it perfectly, and if he doesn't time it perfectly its going to be a slow target for Kakuzu's gian which shits on it either way.

Well then Onoki just times it perfectly. Not that hard to do when he executed his jutsu right before lightened Ay made his strike against Susanoo.

Except fuuton would encompass them all along with the golem.....it can counter the Katon yeah but then Gian would rip through it catching both of them off guard.

They just move out of the way before Gian is used then.

I'm ****ing crying right now, lightening it means its going to fall down after the jump slowly like a deflated baloon, if he hardens right when he begins to fall it cant move at all so the duo doesn't need to move very much to avoid it.

A gian shot upwards would end that notion though, if not two.

Except I already said that Onoki makes the toad super heavy when it's right above them, so it comes crashing down on them like a piano dropped from a ninth story window, not slowly like a deflated balloon. A gian shot upwards might kill the toad sure if it hits his vitals, but then Sasori and Kakuzu get crushed under a hundred tons of toad meat.

.....Iron and Normal sand have a completely different structure. Its called iron sand because it resembles sand in shape only not structure :lol come on now. Why do you think flame oil bullet is stronger than his larger or at the least equally large combination? Oil merely spreads the flames I believe, wind makes it hotter along with giving the flames more acceleration than oil (Just use RL examples, introduce flame to oil it spreads at average speed, introduce a blast of wind to flame it explodes) Honestly the notion that his toad oil bomb is that dangerous should have died when it was seen not even melting Manda's skin quickly.

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Wheras Kakuzu's weaker version was evaporating water near instantly. I'll let you decide which is more impressive :lol, how do water bullets kill Sasori exactly? Its not going to pierce his core.

The whole reason that oil is effective against sand is because of its shape. It

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the structure, separating the individual grains from one another and breaking down the shape. I'll wait for an explanation on why it won't be effective.

Toad Oil Flame Bullet is stronger because it is much, much larger, utterly dwarfing a bijuu sized summon (

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).

Fire needs three things to burn:
-Oxygen
-Fuel
-Heat

Wind fans flames and provides them with an extra burst of oxygen, but the fire will eventually extinguish without a fuel source since Kakuzu's chakra is the only fuel the jutsu has. Whereas Bunta fuels TOFB with a continuous source of toad oil, allowing the fire to keep on burning. The two katons will clash and stalemate each other, but then Kakuzu's will burn out while TOFB continues to burn. Doubt Manda's skin would fare any differently against Kakuzu's fuuton unless you have proof it would, and evaporating Kakashi's water wall is obviously something TOFB would be able to do is well so that's not proof.

Water bullets would blow up Sasori's entire body along with his core.

Kakuzu's Katon which literally rides the ground would intercept it and harden it immediately

Spoiler

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Not to mention its mud, it doesn't spread very fast in the first place.

Well then how about this strategy: Jiraiya uses Yomi Numa, catching Kakuzu. Before he can use his fire mask to harden the swamp, Onoki

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. Then Food Cart Destroyer is summoned directly above the sunken swamp, and falls on top of Kakuzu and crushes him, its weight augmented by the weighted boulder technique.

@Bold, No

Onoki's CLONE is going to be able to precicesly switch between jutsu time after time to stop all incoming attacks? If this thing isn't wrecked by Gian by now Sasori can spawn IS over the golem and merely stab Onoki/Clone

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If that doesn't work ISWO shits.

@Bold: I don't see why not.

Spawning IS all over the golem to kill the clone won't work because the golem can protect the clone with its fist (

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). I never said the golem can't be taken out, but it will take time as none of Kakuzu/Sasori's jutsu are strong enough to significantly damage it.

Lmfao, what? What has his hair tanked again? If its used against ISWO its not a smooth and solid surface so he'd be stuck regardless. Its not tanking shit.

Well what has ISWO pierced again?

Needle Jizo was implied to be durable enough to

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. The same fangs that

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, and the same skin that

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. So it's reasonable to say needle jizo is more durable than metal. Now add on to that the fact that Jiraiya can

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to make it larger and therefore more difficult to penetrate, I estimate it to be capable of tanking smaller iron sand variants.

If one blood cell gets infected the proess of celldivision and meiosis would make sure the poison spreads, has nothing to do with how much blood you have.

Wrong. A drop of poison will affect a small animal more than it would an elephant because of the amount of blood it has. If there is enough blood to dilute the poison then the poison can be overcome. Let's say I hadn't drunk any water for a day and a half so my blood levels have thinned. Then I drink a cup of water with a drop of poison in it. That would affect me worse than if I drink a gallon of water with a drop of poison in it because the water dilutes poison.

This is common sense Zex.

How can it be dodged if its busy tanking other things?

I'm saying Jiraiya would dodge Raiton.

Lmfao what? Despite them catching someone with better reflexes in Kakashi with a quicker and more effective way to deal with them in raikiri? If they catch Onoki that and he heavies them that would only make his binds that much stronger.

Kakashi didn't even have enough chakra left for a Raikiri. If Onoki heavies them, they fall off him like Zetsu did. I already posted a scan, if you want to disagree with the manga that's your choice.

Not really you have them dealing with so much shit if one is trying to counter IS they get hit by Kakuzu's jutsu and vice versa.

Good thing this is a 2v2 and my team can cover each other's backs.

Ma and Pa are easily taken down when not attatched to Jiraiya.

They can still attach themselves to Jiraiya. They just won't merge their chakra networks with him.

 

[Beans2]

Not replying again because I can tell this debate will just go in circles. And I just lost half of my post replying to Unorthodox so I need to type it up again.

 

[Zexion~]

Not replying again because I can tell this debate will just go in circles. And I just lost half of my post replying to Unorthodox so I need to type it up again.

Don't even bother posting if you have nothing to contribute to the discussion.

Same rule with posting and not expecting to entertain a rebuttle, shieeet thats the type of shit that makes you look like a stuck up bitch man come on.


Especially since your arguments are terrible.

But whatever go debate Dox man.


Edit- I'm still going to eat into this shit tommorow, I really wouldn't but your arguments are legitemately that bad that I cant let the general public go on thinking some of that stuff is true.

 

[Unorthodox]

Onoki could solo and im not reading those restrictions

 

[Beans2]

Same rule with posting and not expecting to entertain a rebuttle, shieeet thats the type of shit that makes you look like a stuck up bitch man come on.


Especially since your arguments are terrible.

But whatever go debate Dox man.


Edit- I'm still going to eat into this shit tommorow, I really wouldn't but your arguments are legitemately that bad that I cant let the general public go on thinking some of that stuff is true.

Because I know with for certain that your stubborn ass will keep replying to me for pages and pages bringing only vague arguments full of assumptions. You you say my arguments are trash, even though you've brought mediocre (at best) arguments for the entirety of this thread. I'll reply one more time because you complained enough. But let's put a three post cap on this, so it doesn't go on for pages and continue to waste my time.

And Lol if you think my arguments are that bad, you'd have to be denying manga panels because you would actually have to believe:

-That Lightened Boulder requires constant chakra use.
-that a relatively tiny Gian would destroy a whole golem, simply, because. Raiton.
-Onoki will have trouble timing his jutsu, when he did so at the speed of lightened Ay's strike.
-Kage level opponents can't dodge Gian, despite Kakashi intercepting them.
- A Gian spear will stop a massive heavyweight toad from crushing them.
-oil doesn't break apart sand the way it was shown and stated to do in the manga.
-Common sense doesn't apply when comparing a smaller katon to a bigger katon.
-Water bullets which matched Shukaku's wind bullets won't blow apart a puppet body.
-That Kakuzu and Sasori can counter the Sunken Yomi Numa/Toad Body slam strategy. Well, maybe they can, it was just a strategy that I came up with, thought "why the hell not?" and posted it.
-That rock golem can't protect Onoki's clone from iron sand rain with its fist. And even if it does, so what, in the big picture the clone is dead and the golem just operates like it nornally does, without the weight boost.
-you should toss logic out the window regarding Needle Jizo's durability. Because who cares about manga scans.
-The medical community is wrong when it says that the effects of poison correlate to blood levels of an individual.
-Threads would not fall of Onoki's body when he weights them though you've given no reason why.
-Ma and Pa cannot attach chakra to their feet to remain on Jiraiya's shoulders for the fight.

My arguments speak for themselves and yours are not nearly as amazing as you think they are. No amount of trashing talking is going to change that :lol.

 

[Unorthodox]

Hebi Sasuke > Kakuzu

 

[Apêx1]

IS shits on all summons and Onoki Jiraiya. ISW would in fact pierce Jiraiya's hair because Jiraiya's hair has no feat to suggest otherwise. The only reason his hair can stop Oro's fangs is because it's much thicker then the fangs are long, so regardless of them being able to pierce or not they won't reach Jiraiya's body. So no one can actually make the assertion that the fangs wouldn't pierce the Needle Jizo in the first place. Not sure how anyone is surviving ISW here.

Bunta leaping such a distance to land on them can easily be countered. For one, Domu is an effective counter just because Bunta's body is far less durable, so Kakuzu would end up as a hole inside Bunta's body without feeling much of the impact given Bunta's body. Sasori can also do something like forming a sharp IS spear cone something along the lines of this [

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] around him so once Bunta lands onto them he'd be pierced long before he can exert force onto them. It's like dropping a 500 meter long piece of slime with immense weight, it would only take a sword planted in the ground to pierce through it without the sword being affected at all.

Rock Golems are shat on by the massive Iron Sand Spear and Gian.

Threads go inside Onoki and Jiraiya with no trouble if they ever get into CQC range. Nothing is stopping the threads from drilling through them no diff, Onoki heavy weighting the threads will mean imminent death since he just heavy weighted threads within him and they have now ripped through the top to bottom of his body.

 

[Zexion~]

Not putting much effort into this.

You don't have to constantly use chakra to keep something lightened. You use the jutsu once, and it's lightened until you make it heavy again, seen by how Onoki lightened Kurotsuchi and Akatsuchi and they remained flying for the entire turtle island arc. If full power Onoki can pick up Turtle Island with one hand, then a clone can make a golem (something much, much smaller than the turtle) fly, especially since lightened boulder was never implied to be a chakra taxing technique.

Except a barely functional rock golem is going to be terrible in the air, as Ay was barely able to fly, and couldn't without Onoki giving him input. Saying that a giant golem without a mind and only being controlled by a clone will be able to fly perfectly is ridiciulous.

Raiton Gian can only destroy part of the golem due to its massive size. Pretty sure it is a piercing attack which would just drill right through the golem and destroy a small portion of it. Saying it destroys the whole golem because it is raiton is the equivalent to saying Raikiri destroys the whole thing, despite Raikiri being unable to hit the entirety of the golem at once.

Its rock, rip a lightnening bolt sized hole through the golem's center or anywhere really and it will start to crack until it falls. If it strikes limbs those limbs fall off.

Well then Onoki just times it perfectly. Not that hard to do when he executed his jutsu right before lightened Ay made his strike against Susanoo.

That makes it easier and harder tbh, as the golem is going to be slower than Ay, although saying this thing is going to break apart Domu is a bit of a stretch. Its also not out speeding Gian.

They just move out of the way before Gian is used then.

If theyre going fullspeed towards Kakuzu that makes that pretty difficult.....Either way it negates the attack so.

Except I already said that Onoki makes the toad super heavy when it's right above them, so it comes crashing down on them like a piano dropped from a ninth story window, not slowly like a deflated balloon. A gian shot upwards might kill the toad sure if it hits his vitals, but then Sasori and Kakuzu get crushed under a hundred tons of toad meat.

You're saying Onoki would be on top of the toad so the Gian might strike him, or Kakuzu fires his fuuton upwards which would encompass the toad crushing Onoki while he's on top of it thus ending the process altogether.

Still not convinced Domu doesn't take this though.

The whole reason that oil is effective against sand is because of its shape. It

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the structure, separating the individual grains from one another and breaking down the shape. I'll wait for an explanation on why it won't be effective.

Jesus except when those individual grains are made of Iron they're not being seperated as easily as normal sand you idiot, bring this to a chemical level and the bonds of Iron are obviously stronger than those of sand. Any idiot with half a sense of logic would understand this.

Toad Oil Flame Bullet is stronger because it is much, much larger, utterly dwarfing a bijuu sized summon (

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).

The tree's Kakuzu's dwarfed are honestly just as large

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Kishi was ****ing around clearly during that fight, as you can see how large those small rocks scattered are

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a bit smaller than tsunade yet look how high they reach on Bunta

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put Tsunade in place of the rock and you only need 6 or 7 of her to stack up to him.

But again, we've clearly seen Bunta summoned again and isn't that large, even in that one fight alone the size of them varies a bit. The dead tree's stay constant.

Fire needs three things to burn:
-Oxygen
-Fuel
-Heat

Wind fans flames and provides them with an extra burst of oxygen, but the fire will eventually extinguish without a fuel source since Kakuzu's chakra is the only fuel the jutsu has. Whereas Bunta fuels TOFB with a continuous source of toad oil, allowing the fire to keep on burning. The two katons will clash and stalemate each other, but then Kakuzu's will burn out while TOFB continues to burn. Doubt Manda's skin would fare any differently against Kakuzu's fuuton unless you have proof it would, and evaporating Kakashi's water wall is obviously something TOFB would be able to do is well so that's not proof.

Dear god stop smoking all that weed bruh.

Jiraiya's TOFB adds more fuel to the fire triangle, wheras Kakuzu's combination is oxidizing it with oxygen. Adding more fuel to the fire can only increase its range and size, perhaps making it a bit hotter but nothing to oserious, oxidize the flame condenses its range while giving it an incredibly stronger flame. Now I'm not entirely sure what type of flame adding oil would create pretty sure its just a normal flame but when you add oxygen even just a slight bit of it flames increase to

The temperature of this flame is approximately 6300ºF (3482ºC)

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Thats just a weilding flame, combine Kakuzu's MASSIVE fuuton with his flames and that shit is hot, hot enough and compact enough to burst through Jiraiya's larger but less hot, and strong Katon.

ESPECIALLY since the oil is spewed about witout much form to it, meaning there is going to be a higher concentration of oil in one spot with the outskirts being weaker.

You're also trying to say that melting something as delicate and fragile as snake skin is harder to do then evaporating water instantly......

Water bullets would blow up Sasori's entire body along with his core.

No :lol they don't explode?

Well then how about this strategy: Jiraiya uses Yomi Numa, catching Kakuzu. Before he can use his fire mask to harden the swamp, Onoki

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. Then Food Cart Destroyer is summoned directly above the sunken swamp, and falls on top of Kakuzu and crushes him, its weight augmented by the weighted boulder technique.

Doesn't Onoki need to be on the ground to use mobile core? Not to mention Kakuzu's katon mask is directly in his back, it would literally take less then a second to use it :lol.

Spawning IS all over the golem to kill the clone won't work because the golem can protect the clone with its fist (

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). I never said the golem can't be taken out, but it will take time as none of Kakuzu/Sasori's jutsu are strong enough to significantly damage it.

Now you're claiming rock>Iron? The same Iron that was ripping through bedrock? (Not getting scans) Okay buddy :lol

Well what has ISWO pierced again?

Bedrock which is > This rock golem.

Needle Jizo was implied to be durable enough to

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. The same fangs that

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, and the same skin that

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. So it's reasonable to say needle jizo is more durable than metal. Now add on to that the fact that Jiraiya can

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to make it larger and therefore more difficult to penetrate, I estimate it to be capable of tanking smaller iron sand variants.

Lmfao words can not describe, obviously it stopped those tiny fangs from hitting him only because they couldn't reach him with the hair in the way lmfao, not to mention IS tanks Suigetsu's sword and the fangs and is logicaly stronger.

Wrong. A drop of poison will affect a small animal more than it would an elephant because of the amount of blood it has. If there is enough blood to dilute the poison then the poison can be overcome. Let's say I hadn't drunk any water for a day and a half so my blood levels have thinned. Then I drink a cup of water with a drop of poison in it. That would affect me worse than if I drink a gallon of water with a drop of poison in it because the water dilutes poison.

Thats drinking Sasori's is already going directly into your blood/bloodcells, you can't wash away your own blood cells no much how water you have, once it starts dividing its all over for bunta.

I'm saying Jiraiya would dodge Raiton.

With lesser speed feats than Kakashi?

Kakashi didn't even have enough chakra left for a Raikiri. If Onoki heavies them, they fall off him like Zetsu did. I already posted a scan, if you want to disagree with the manga that's your choice.

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What? Zetsu wasn't bound to him, with multiple loops if he heavies them they cut of his blood circulation until he cant feel his hands.

Good thing this is a 2v2 and my team can cover each other's backs.

Not when you have them on two seperate constructs.

They can still attach themselves to Jiraiya. They just won't merge their chakra networks with him.

Will save this debate for a later time.

 

[DrProof]

Oh snap. Tag me in. Tag me in. Kakuzu & Sasori got this my man lml.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

The low tier Akatsuki lose this.

 

[Beans2]

I'll reply later. Gonna edit this post.

 

[DrProof]

The low tier Akatsuki lose this.

Please explain to me how Ohnoki, or Jiraiya dodge IS bullets engulfed with poison that break the sound barrier? When ya know.. Neither have a standstill defense such as Chiyo?

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Please explain to me how Ohnoki, or Jiraiya dodge IS bullets engulfed with poison that break the sound barrier? When ya know.. Neither have a standstill defense such as Chiyo?

Chiyo reacted to that attack at the literal last minute to block it, as even Sasori was surprised to see she was alive afterwards. Factor in both Jiraiya and Oonoki are faster than Chiyo, Oonoki can lighten Jiraiya, and breaking the sound barrier is legit a feat that even Gated Lee accomplished, it's not a factor proofy.

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To this: [

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-

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-

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-

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] Given distance, as Jiraiya's most effective at a range, and possible doton to slow or change the trajectory of the Iron Sand, don't see them getting hit.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Chiyo reacted to that attack at the literal last minute to block it, as even Sasori was surprised to see she was alive afterwards. Factor in both Jiraiya and Oonoki are faster than Chiyo, Oonoki can lighten Jiraiya, and breaking the sound barrier is legit a feat that even Gated Lee accomplished, it's not a factor proofy.

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To this: [

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-

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-

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-

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] Given distance, as Jiraiya's most effective at a range, and possible doton to slow or change the trajectory of the Iron Sand, don't see them getting hit.

TAC, Chiyo being able to block the attack should by no means explain that Jiraya and Onoki are capable of dodging it. Despite Jiraya being faster then her, by little. Plus the fact that Onoki foot speed is piss poor to begin with. But lets just focus on Jiraya. Chiyo medical field skill enables her to react and movement speed to escape FRS thrown at her. Keep in mind Kimmi was there to, who is faster then her. Her faster reaction enable her to = Kimmi movement speed when escaping FRS. Capable of such feat against FRS only makes IS more impressive in attack speed.

And how does Doton change the trajectory of IS?

 

[Manda II]

Both ready to get ****ed up,

Please enlighten me how they win? Both of you

Okay, I will make this one post, and explain shortly why SM Jiraiya beats the team alone w/o help from a teammate being needed.

Spoiler

First off, Shima will start by summoning the boss toad trio Gamaken, Gamahariro and Gamabunta, with the first two possessing physical

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with Gamabunta. The latter spared with a biju like Shukaku, and managed slash/cut off his arm with his tanto. The same biju who

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a SM enhanced Susano'o sword with his palm alone.


As seen throughout the manga, the Gama toads mobility is top notch with feats of jumping to Jubi level heights,

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massive distances to escape the enemy's blows or quickly close the distance. Likewise, Gamabunta can also utilise Water ninjutsu like Water Gunshots, which he used to stalemate Shukaku's Fuuton bullets. The force and pressure of Teppodama water blasts can be further increased by jumping and making use of gravity, while raining down Water gunshots from the sky. I'll explain later why the toad's assistance will become useful against Sasori.


In CQC, Jiraiya trashes Kakuzu thanks to Frog Kata, much superior striking speed and his deadly bigger Rasengan variants. In any case, should this become a physical brawl Jiraiya strikes him with his superior striking speed sending him

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. Domu should protect Kakuzu from the blow, though this gives Shima the opportunity to capture him mid-air with her tongue, and release her deadly slime acid onto his body. Since Kakuzu can protect himself by hardening his skin, his eyes would be left unprotected from the acidic slime making this an opportunity to corrode his eyeballs. If Kakuzu tries to shut of his eyelids thus shutting off his greatest fighting sense, Shima simply retracts her tongue close to her summoner, leaving Jiraiya to end him with COR in CQC. In any case, there is no defence Kakuzu can put up against COR, and the strategies/ways Jiraiya can employ to tag Kakuzu with his Rasengan are countless leaving him no opportunity to survive as I explained above. Any "unexpected" crawling thread from underground will be detected by Canopy Method Formation barrier. The toads assistance isn't even needed here tbh. Kakuzu will do best trying to keep his distance, if he wants to survive.


Kakuzu's Katon Fuuton combination ninjutsu can be easily countered by Jiraiya's oil Katon combo with Gamabunta. If by some reason you're still not convinced that a ninjutsu, which dwarfed a biju sized summon in size cannot overpower Kakuzu's weaker combination, I'd like to remind you that in this instance Jiraiya's Toad Oil Flame Bullet will be also powered by senjutsu chakra. Furthermore, Fukasaku and Shima can pump into the collaboration ninjutsu their own Fire and Wind affinities. Not only will senjutsu chakra increase the

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, but likewise its

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comfortably overpowering Kakuzu's ninjutsu. If Kakuzu decides to use his Futon and Katon individually, Jiraiya avoids it by using shunshin alone considering the likes of Shikamaru, Ino and Choji were able to do so at a moments notice. [

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]

The only technique on Kakuzu's arsenal that might have killing potential against Jiraiya is Raiton: Gian, which can be countered by utilising a Choodama Rasengan both defensively and offensively by tanking the spear, while aiming straightforward for Kakuzu. To finish of Kakuzu, Jiraiya can utilise Frog Call in tandem with an unpredictable technique such as Yomi Noma, while a clone jumps above and obliterates him with a Giant Rasengan. A weakened Jiraiya managed to partially sink a massive snake summon and restrict his movement. A top condition Jiraiya enhanced by SM, which gives him the ability to increase the size and strength of his ninjutsu will have no problems sinking a much smaller human sized target. If somehow, Kakuzu manages to partially dry the mud before he sinks in with Fire Release: Intelligent Hard Work that would prove fatal, because the dried mud will cement half of his body (hopeful if he doesn’t completely sink beforehand) inside the heated mud giving Jiraiya another opening to jump blitz before Kakuzu can break out, and blast him with Giant Rasengan the same way I explained in my prior strategy.



If Sasori starts inside his Hiruko puppet, Jiraiya one-shots him like so. [

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]

To make this a fair fight, assuming Sasori starts with the Third Kazekage beforehand, I'll explain how IS is countered by Jiraiya.


Iron sand in its entirety is primarily sand with high concentrations of iron.

Ironsand also known as iron-sand and iron sand is a type of sand with heavy concentrations of iron. It is typically dark grey or blackish in colour.

Sand-made structures are composed of millions of tiny particles that rub together. What will happen when Gamabunta sprays large scale oil into the sand? The oil will seep in and fill the gaps between the iron sand particles causing it to tumble and lose its form. This will lower the ability of the grains of sand to stream freely because of the oil's viscosity seeping in through them. With Sasori’s strongest asset being countered by Jiraiya, the rest of his arsenal won’t add much to to make a difference.

1000 puppets are destroyed by the 3 Gama toads attacks, and Gamabunta's ninjutsu like I showed on the beginning of my post. Jiraiya can create a base clone to help the toads fight the puppets. The fight will end with Sasori's core being destroyed by: 1) Teppodama which Fukasaku can also help Gamabunta propel it with his Fuuton to increase its strength 2) Shima's acidic slime 3) Rasengan.


All in all, Jiraiya beats the team mid, maybe high difficulty? He possesses all the right counters, which can be used both offensively and defensively to constantly pressure the team, making his arsenal very lethal for team to deal with.

 

[Apêx1]

Chiyo reacted to that attack at the literal last minute to block it, as even Sasori was surprised to see she was alive afterwards. Factor in both Jiraiya and Oonoki are faster than Chiyo, Oonoki can lighten Jiraiya, and breaking the sound barrier is legit a feat that even Gated Lee accomplished, it's not a factor proofy.

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To this: [

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-

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-

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-

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] Given distance, as Jiraiya's most effective at a range, and possible doton to slow or change the trajectory of the Iron Sand, don't see them getting hit.

Look at it like this, do you believe Jiraiya and Onoki can deal with 99 puppets+ 3 masks + Kakuzu attacking while also dodging Iron Sand bullets that they can barely see? I'll answer it for you, no, they can't. Then there's the fact that Sasori could also be using his own body to attack via the cable. Do note, 1 touch from 99 puppets, 1 touch from the cable, 1 touch from IS, and it's over. Then there's 1 touch from Gian, 1 touch from tendrils and it's also over. Team 2 can definitely win this.

 

[Manda II]

And yes, this is manga intel.

 

[Lord Tywin]

Too bad SM is restricted, or Jiraiya would have soloed.

 

[Zexion~]

Okay, I will make this one post, and explain shortly why SM Jiraiya beats the team alone w/o help from a teammate being needed.

Spoiler

First off, Shima will start by summoning the boss toad trio Gamaken, Gamahariro and Gamabunta, with the first two possessing physical

You must be registered for see links

with Gamabunta. The latter spared with a biju like Shukaku, and managed slash/cut off his arm with his tanto. The same biju who

You must be registered for see links

a SM enhanced Susano'o sword with his palm alone.


As seen throughout the manga, the Gama toads mobility is top notch with feats of jumping to Jubi level heights,

You must be registered for see links

massive distances to escape the enemy's blows or quickly close the distance. Likewise, Gamabunta can also utilise Water ninjutsu like Water Gunshots, which he used to stalemate Shukaku's Fuuton bullets. The force and pressure of Teppodama water blasts can be further increased by jumping and making use of gravity, while raining down Water gunshots from the sky. I'll explain later why the toad's assistance will become useful against Sasori.


In CQC, Jiraiya trashes Kakuzu thanks to Frog Kata, much superior striking speed and his deadly bigger Rasengan variants. In any case, should this become a physical brawl Jiraiya strikes him with his superior striking speed sending him

You must be registered for see links

. Domu should protect Kakuzu from the blow, though this gives Shima the opportunity to capture him mid-air with her tongue, and release her deadly slime acid onto his body. Since Kakuzu can protect himself by hardening his skin, his eyes would be left unprotected from the acidic slime making this an opportunity to corrode his eyeballs. If Kakuzu tries to shut of his eyelids thus shutting off his greatest fighting sense, Shima simply retracts her tongue close to her summoner, leaving Jiraiya to end him with COR in CQC. In any case, there is no defence Kakuzu can put up against COR, and the strategies/ways Jiraiya can employ to tag Kakuzu with his Rasengan are countless leaving him no opportunity to survive as I explained above. Any "unexpected" crawling thread from underground will be detected by Canopy Method Formation barrier. The toads assistance isn't even needed here tbh. Kakuzu will do best trying to keep his distance, if he wants to survive.


Kakuzu's Katon Fuuton combination ninjutsu can be easily countered by Jiraiya's oil Katon combo with Gamabunta. If by some reason you're still not convinced that a ninjutsu, which dwarfed a biju sized summon in size cannot overpower Kakuzu's weaker combination, I'd like to remind you that in this instance Jiraiya's Toad Oil Flame Bullet will be also powered by senjutsu chakra. Furthermore, Fukasaku and Shima can pump into the collaboration ninjutsu their own Fire and Wind affinities. Not only will senjutsu chakra increase the

You must be registered for see links

, but likewise its

You must be registered for see links

comfortably overpowering Kakuzu's ninjutsu. If Kakuzu decides to use his Futon and Katon individually, Jiraiya avoids it by using shunshin alone considering the likes of Shikamaru, Ino and Choji were able to do so at a moments notice. [

You must be registered for see links

]

The only technique on Kakuzu's arsenal that might have killing potential against Jiraiya is Raiton: Gian, which can be countered by utilising a Choodama Rasengan both defensively and offensively by tanking the spear, while aiming straightforward for Kakuzu. To finish of Kakuzu, Jiraiya can utilise Frog Call in tandem with an unpredictable technique such as Yomi Noma, while a clone jumps above and obliterates him with a Giant Rasengan. A weakened Jiraiya managed to partially sink a massive snake summon and restrict his movement. A top condition Jiraiya enhanced by SM, which gives him the ability to increase the size and strength of his ninjutsu will have no problems sinking a much smaller human sized target. If somehow, Kakuzu manages to partially dry the mud before he sinks in with Fire Release: Intelligent Hard Work that would prove fatal, because the dried mud will cement half of his body (hopeful if he doesn’t completely sink beforehand) inside the heated mud giving Jiraiya another opening to jump blitz before Kakuzu can break out, and blast him with Giant Rasengan the same way I explained in my prior strategy.



If Sasori starts inside his Hiruko puppet, Jiraiya one-shots him like so. [

You must be registered for see links

]

To make this a fair fight, assuming Sasori starts with the Third Kazekage beforehand, I'll explain how IS is countered by Jiraiya.


Iron sand in its entirety is primarily sand with high concentrations of iron.

Sand-made structures are composed of millions of tiny particles that rub together. What will happen when Gamabunta sprays large scale oil into the sand? The oil will seep in and fill the gaps between the iron sand particles causing it to tumble and lose its form. This will lower the ability of the grains of sand to stream freely because of the oil's viscosity seeping in through them. With Sasori’s strongest asset being countered by Jiraiya, the rest of his arsenal won’t add much to to make a difference.

1000 puppets are destroyed by the 3 Gama toads attacks, and Gamabunta's ninjutsu like I showed on the beginning of my post. Jiraiya can create a base clone to help the toads fight the puppets. The fight will end with Sasori's core being destroyed by: 1) Teppodama which Fukasaku can also help Gamabunta propel it with his Fuuton to increase its strength 2) Shima's acidic slime 3) Rasengan.


All in all, Jiraiya beats the team mid, maybe high difficulty? He possesses all the right techniques, which can be used both offensively and defensively to constantly pressure the team with his various lethal ninjutsu.

Save it for another thread boiii,

Already debating this subject.