[Predictions] One Piece Manga Chapter 902 Discussion and 903 Predictions

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Caliburn

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Stopped reading here because that has jack to do with what I said and I doubt the rest is any less irrelevant. Love Cook dismissed his criticism by saying "The cake saved their lives," I said that doesn't mean there's nothing critical about it as a plot point. That's it, miss me with the rest of that
Which is just another way of saying you can't rebuke what I said because you know it's true, but you can't stand that reality so you just tried to get around in a rather half-assed attempt.

Independently from any discussed topic, criticizing is a skill like any other. There are people who are good at it, there are people who are bad at it. There are times it's useful, there are times it's useless. There are times it's accurate, there are times it's completely redundant. So why would you be allowed to say that's something can be critiqued, but I'm not allowed to say that just because it can, it doesn't mean it's useful or correct?

Funny part here is that just by saying you stopped reading, you just proved my point and contradicted your own comment as you could consider my post as me giving criticism, which you then brushed off with that shallow reasoning of yours. Which should have been the only thing you shouldn't have done if you wanted to give any credibility to your own comments.

Now I then followed up with an example, you supposedly didn't read, to make that point clear, namely why Sanji didn't poison the cake, which was one of the primary things LC was talking about. Yeah Sanji had the opportunity to poison the cake, only if Oda would have let Sanji do that, he would have massacred his entire character and if Oda can do that for Sanji, he can do that for any character.

Sanji does not hurt woman. Sanji does not mess around with food. These are not some superficial gimmicks he employs, these are vices he lives by and he even explicitly stated and showed he would rather die than betraying them. If he would have discarded them purely for opportunistic reasons, he wouldn't be Sanji anymore. So yeah it's a point that can be critiqued, but that doesn't mean that criticism is accurate and it shows a clear lack of understanding a story and its characters, which is like a fundamental requirement if you want to give legitimate criticism.

TL;DR: you said that it's a point that can be critiqued. I then said that it's not because you can, it should and I consequently made that clear as why that is with a relevant example that was already used. And you? You then replied with well, 'meh' sums it up I guess.

Yeah you are not obliged to answer when someone quotes you, but doing it just to say you were incapable of reading more than one sentence and try to appear you somehow said something worthwhile, is really not a smart thing to do.

Quite a difference between fodders who may have turned on him and a yonko that threatened Zeff's life. You can say character all you want, but Oda seriously missed a big chance to develop Sanji past the ridiculousness he is now. If Sanji could put his code aside to protect his sister from Big Mom's attack, he could put it away to protect multiple more lives. It wouldn't even have to be fatal as long as it kept her down a while.
When they fought Don Krieg, Krieg was not a fodder. At that point in time he was the fiercest enemy they encountered. They were very well the underdog in their battle and Krieg very well had the power to kill them all. The difference? Krieg was actually much closer to achieving that goal than BM. BM has an impressive network and she doesn't make idle threats. Still till further notice her threats were just words spoken in the New World, while Krieg actually attempted to kill Zeff while he was trying to take over Zeff's ship. As far as we know Zeff's life was never in immediate danger during the WCI-arc, which was very well the case with Krieg.

Sanji refused to forsake his principles when it comes to food already at the beginning of the story, no matter how stupid it was, so thinking he's going to do that willy nilly at this point in time, is absurd and shows a clear lack of understanding of his character, the story and the contextual frame as a whole. Lets not forget BM is still a woman. Even when Robin's life was at stake he refused to fight Khalifa at Enies Lobbies and then you expect Sanji to betray two adamant principles he refused to budge on at the same time?

No Oda didn't miss any chance, he did what a good writer would do: he made sure his character is still his character and not a shallow tool that can be tossed around in all directions whenever it's convenient. That's why OP is so good, the characters you are creating though are flaccid and boring.
 

HowDidIGetPrem

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Sanji kicked BM to help Poison so that woman excuse doesn't hold, and Sanji surely didn't perceive Big Mom's threats as empty after an attempted assassination. Not even considering your input on it being boring either seeing how you're in favor of a character being exactly the same as he was a decade ago.
 

Caliburn

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Sanji kicked BM to help Poison so that woman excuse doesn't hold, and Sanji surely didn't perceive Big Mom's threats as empty after an attempted assassination. Not even considering your input on it being boring either seeing how you're in favor of a character being exactly the same as he was a decade ago.
I assume you mean Reiju. First of all Sanji isn't either the type of person to let even an anonymous woman be killed in front of him, let alone his sister, his white-kinght persona doesn't allow that. So it's seemingly a paradox as regardless of what he would have decided to do, it would have been conflicting one way or another.

Secondly it's not because he follows his principles to absurd lengths that he's completely oblivious to the situations he is in (this point has specifically been addressed in the series). When he fought Khalifa, he exchanged blows with her. It's not because he refuses to hurt women, that he's going to let himself be tossed around like a rag doll without any resistance. There's quite a difference between intentionally trying to beat someone up and simply intercept incoming attacks. This counts double for BM whose skin is so tough that even rockets can't put a scratch on her.

Thirdly, strictly speaking Sanji kicked Zeus.

Lastly I think we really can establish that blocking BM's fist from crushing Reiju is quite a different situation than making a cake solely meant to poison the hell out of her.

And I never said Sanji perceived the threat as empty, in fact I clearly stated the opposite. I clearly said BM doesn't make idle threats. My point was that there was never an instance BM found the need to make good on her threat as Sanji was compliant most of the time. This can be made clear rather easy with the reality that as far as we know Zeff didn't know his life was used as a means to bargain with Sanji. He however knew very well that Don Krieg would kill him in a heartbeat if he wasn't stopped.

One of the best characters are the ones who inherently stay the same, but where you very well can see changes happen over time. The worst characters are the ones that are noticeably and forcibly being used to push the plot into a certain direction, making everything feel unnatural. One of the reasons OP is so good, is because Oda understands this and acts accordingly.

You're just ranting for the sake of ranting. You don't understand what makes characters tick, how they interact with the plot and how that will influence how we will read it.
 
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