[Predictions] One Piece Manga Chapter 850 Discussion and 851 Predictions

[Caliburn]

I really can't with when pandemonium will strike. What is Jinbei going to do? What is Capone going to do? How will the bomb-in-a-treasure-chest affect the wedding? And above all what is Sanji going to do? I also just love it that the Vinsmokes got outwitted as I still dislike them far more than Pudding and BM. I mean the latter are pirates, so you could have expected such deplorable tactics. The Vinsmokes however are a bunch of bullies that act like wannabe royalty that rules over nothing. That Judge thought that a shallow plan like "hold Pudding hostage" would be enough to deal with a Yonkou, is nothing more than misplaced arrogance.

Sanji has been very disappointing. Earlier, people were arguing that he is forcing himself to love Pudding for the sake of Straw Hats. This chapter made it abundantly clear that Sanji will take any woman over his crew. It was pretty clear that he was not forcing himself to lover her or anything. For God's sake the guy was dreaming about Pudding being naked and shit. All this while his nakama is on the verge of death. He deserved this. Sanji as a character has regressed for me in this arc.
Luffy, Pedro and Chopper were good though.

If Sanji would give priority to random women over the Strawhats, he wouldn't have spent two years on an island that had a population consisting solely out of okama's.

Yes Sanji seems to have grown fond of Pudding, but that and being truly in love with her are very different things. You really need to read the situation here: Sanji hates his family and is traumatized by them. However he was then forced to become their disposable tool as if he didn't, everyone he cares about would be in danger. The Strawhats are one thing, but it's impossible for him to protect people living all the way in East Blue. On top of that to make sure he doesn't do anything funny, they strapped two bombs to his hands and then he learned that the Strawhats invaded BM's territory. Sanji is completely stuck on all sides, he is nothing more than a powerless pawn in the game his father and BM are playing. This wedding pretty much means he's a prisoner for the rest of his life, but at least in all of this the girl he's supposed to marry is gentle and sweet, his only ray of light in the darkness. The Sanji we saw the past few chapters, is simply a Sanji who has accepted the situation he is in and realized that he can't change anything about it anymore. So he is gathering around that single ray of light. Don't forget he currently believes everyone else is safe as BM promised no harm would come to them. By no means though does this mean that Sanji is madly in love with Pudding and that he chose her over everyone else. You seem to be forgetting here that even Luffy trusted Pudding and that till know both Sanji and Luffy believed she was helping them.

That's what this chapter's title meant and now he learned that that ray of light is in fact a murderous sociopath that's planning to kill him, the other Vinsmokes and the Strawhats while they're saying their wedding vowels. I've said this before, but the only thing Sanji can be blamed for is his naivety for believing that Luffy would stay put with a shallow letter, which was completely out of character for Sanji. Putting that aside he tried everything he could in the situation he was in to keep everyone from harm.

 

[chopstickchakra]

And you think Big Mom wouldn't have been able to ever find Zou? Jack found it twice, even after it moved, and Oda emphasized that Big Mom is extremely resourceful and has deep connections. She'd have found Zou. Even if the Strawhats were long gone, you can't possibly think it's feasible to say Big Mom wouldn't have them interrogated.


Jack didn't destroy Zou the first time around because he literally chose not to. He had the Minks under his boot and the only reason they survived was because he left to rescue Doflamingo. The second time around, Jack was fully capable of destroying Zou and killing Zunisha had Momonosuke not been there to give the order. If the Strawhats are gone, then Big Mom's fleets should be able to do the same thing.


And considering how important this deal was to Big Mom, it's far more feasible she'd come herself than just send goons.



And were soundly defeated, tortured, and dismembered.


She didn't know Kid had destroyed her ships and she didn't send anyone to destroy Fishman Island because Luffy agreed to take the blame for them to spare them.


If Sanji hadn't have came to the island, the Vinsmokes would have no reason to stick around, which would ruin her plan to massacre them and steal their technology. That would warrant her being pissed off enough to hunt the Strawhats.




You mean Urouge. And you're both inaccurate as hell. Urouge came into Whole Cake, defeated a commander, and then Big Mom had him pounded and forcibly escorted out of Whole Cake. Why would she hunt Urouge after having her subordinates beat the shit out of him and then kick him out of the country already?



B-b-b-b-but Sanji doesn't care about them anymore /s



He literally went with Pudding without a fuss for the sole sake of his crew's safety. The pictures are really pretty, but try to read the words too.


>There is literally pages of Sanji forcing himself to think positively about his marriage to Pudding
"Yeah but he's not forcing himself.


Sanji had no knowledge of his crew being on the verge of death. WE didn't know they were on the verge of death until the chapter that was released today, so how the **** would Sanji know that?

This is a quick reply to "And considering how important this deal was to Big Mom, it's far more feasible she'd come herself than just send goons" It's the first point I saw and I don't have the time right this minute to read through and think on all of your post. But to this point, as we found out this chapter Sanji wasn't really all that essential to the plan, BM just needed access to the Vinsmokes BM could have arranged that marriage with any of his kids to lure him there. BM didn't need Sanji she needed the Vinsmokes so if getting SAnji proved more trouble than worth when there's other kids to choose from it's far more feasible she'd go to the easier route than exhaust time an resources trying to bring in one specific irrelevant to the plan child.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Enraged army having trouble with tired Luffy ? They toyed with him he only punched fodder. The people with abilities owned him.

Sanji receiving the Zeff threat on Whole Cake Island ? Wrong again, he already got it on Zou. That was when his expression changed from serious to concerned when the tongue guy whispered it in his ear. Pekoms explains it to the rest of the crew here:

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Do you see now ? Sanji already was out of choices on Zou.

Stop talking out of your neck mate. Jack is not even a sweet commander, you know nothing about their abilities. But here you go assuming that the SH's and an ancient elephant take care of 2 sweet commanders. If for whatever reason Nami isn't around to help Luffy fight Cracker, he would obliterate him.

Look at all the circumstances that had to be right in order for them to survive to this point, without Big Mom or Kaidou really gunning for them. This was just the first wave.

@Blaze, Do you really think a phone call to a old pirate chef would be enough to escape from the most notorious family of assassins in the world ? REALLY though ?!

The people with abilities beat an exhausted beaten Luffy, wow. No, I mean it, wow. on the flip only the ones with powers were able to do anything against an exhausted and beaten Luffy so how much of a threat do you anticipate they'd actually provide to a full powered and rested Luffy?

Your panel contradicts what you're trying to imply. Pekoms says, "A certain present will be delivered...inside that present will be the head of someone who has been involved with him." Then you say Sanji got that box on Zou but if he got that box then Zeff would be dead and his head would have been in that box which means Judge wouldn't have been able to use him as a threat at WCI.

It doesn't matter if Jack is a sweet commander he's a yonkou commander and yonkou commanders are comparable in strength for the most part. There you go again with the IF's well guess what IF they stayed on Zou then Nami WOULD be with him which means Cracker gets the same treatment he got at WCI and Zunisha wiped out a commander and his ships so what would stop her from doing it again? Other than you not wanting it to happen? Also even if Nami wasn't with him on Zou have you forgotten about Zunisha's random water spraying? Also I'm not baselessly assuming they'd beat 2 commanders I'm going off of what we've seen in their defeating of 2 commanders.

 

[palmer]

A moment of silence for those who was think that Pudding was the next Straw Hat.

lol i like this.

 

[Punk Hazard]

This is a quick reply to "And considering how important this deal was to Big Mom, it's far more feasible she'd come herself than just send goons" It's the first point I saw and I don't have the time right this minute to read through and think on all of your post. But to this point, as we found out this chapter Sanji wasn't really all that essential to the plan, BM just needed access to the Vinsmokes BM could have arranged that marriage with any of his kids to lure him there. BM didn't need Sanji she needed the Vinsmokes so if getting SAnji proved more trouble than worth when there's other kids to choose from it's far more feasible she'd go to the easier route than exhaust time an resources trying to bring in one specific irrelevant to the plan child.

Wouldn't have worked. Judge stated he'd refuse to let one of his precious sons even consider this deal. If it were not for Sanji, the entire Vinsmoke family would have never showed up to Whole Cake Island like Big Mom wanted because Judge wouldn't let Ichiji, Niji, or Yonji marry into her family.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Wouldn't have worked. Judge stated he'd refuse to let one of his precious sons even consider this deal. If it were not for Sanji, the entire Vinsmoke family would have never showed up to Whole Cake Island like Big Mom wanted because Judge wouldn't let Ichiji, Niji, or Yonji marry into her family.

You're right I forgot he said that, Sanji was essential to her plan then. But since the marriage is a sham anyway BM would have likely been able to find another way to arrange a meeting with all the Vinsmokes other than the wedding if push came to shove.

 

[Love Cook]

The people with abilities beat an exhausted beaten Luffy, wow. No, I mean it, wow. on the flip only the ones with powers were able to do anything against an exhausted and beaten Luffy so how much of a threat do you anticipate they'd actually provide to a full powered and rested Luffy?

Your panel contradicts what you're trying to imply. Pekoms says, "A certain present will be delivered...inside that present will be the head of someone who has been involved with him." Then you say Sanji got that box on Zou but if he got that box then Zeff would be dead and his head would have been in that box which means Judge wouldn't have been able to use him as a threat at WCI.

It doesn't matter if Jack is a sweet commander he's a yonkou commander and yonkou commanders are comparable in strength for the most part. There you go again with the IF's well guess what IF they stayed on Zou then Nami WOULD be with him which means Cracker gets the same treatment he got at WCI and Zunisha wiped out a commander and his ships so what would stop her from doing it again? Other than you not wanting it to happen? Also even if Nami wasn't with him on Zou have you forgotten about Zunisha's random water spraying? Also I'm not baselessly assuming they'd beat 2 commanders I'm going off of what we've seen in their defeating of 2 commanders.

Fuck off *******. I'm out of patience and sensible replies now.

you literally said this:

the enraged army which was having trouble with an exhausted beaten Luffy.

And if my reply is that the enraged army was toying with Luffy, don't come around like a sassy bitch saying this:

The people with abilities beat an exhausted beaten Luffy, wow. No, I mean it, wow.

Only the people with a namebox matter in One Piece, the rest are foot soldiers. And Luffy wasn't able to land a hit on any of them. SO shut your big mouth and stop contradicting yourself and even worse the manga.

Point 2 Sanji did not receive the box on Zou he received the THREAT of receiving a box. Read you moron. You don't understand what you're talking about. You have forgotten so many events that it's impossible to have a decent discussion. You're either letting stuff out, or forgetting about it or are lying about it. And I don't know which one is worse. Either way I'm done talking to you after this post.

So for the last time. The threat on Zeff's head was already made on Zou by Capone's underling with the long tongue and it was placed by Judge. So running from the wedding or fighting Capone would result into Zeff's decapitation by Vinsmoke assassins.

And apparently you're an expert on yonkou commanders after only seeing 2 in action out of 6. Not even going to burn my fingers on that topic but you can go ahead/ It's not like you're afraid to make a fool out of yourself anyway.

Jack fell in the water, and was not even beaten he was still ready to go if it wasn't for his devil fruit. Who knows if there aren't commanders with travel abilities that aren't bound to the deck of a ship. No one knows. I know one thing Momonosuke is heading to Wano so he can't command Zunisha anymore. The water spraying also is no big deal, On higher ground you stay dry, the minks have been surviving it for a thousand years. And even Jack's smile underlings had no trouble staying dry. Yet a yonkou commander has to suffer the negative effects from it. But Luffy another DF user is somehow fine with it.

Everything in your story is so full of holes and biased. It's ridiculous. Do some homework before you reply again.

 

[loj]

Hopefully this chapter will make Sanji react in a different way...like actually trying to help the situation rather than doing nothing and being saved.

 

[LBeezy]

Hopefully this chapter will make Sanji react in a different way...like actually trying to help the situation rather than doing nothing and being saved.

I think Sanji is going to turn up after this!

I'm hoping for that beast mode Sanji to come out and start coming up with some intelligent strategies and shit.. lol

 

[loj]

I think Sanji is going to turn up after this!

I'm hoping for that beast mode Sanji to come out and start coming up with some intelligent strategies and shit.. lol

Is the time tbh sick and tired seeing this type of Sanji...

 

[chopstickchakra]

Fuck off *******. I'm out of patience and sensible replies now.

you literally said this:



And if my reply is that the enraged army was toying with Luffy, don't come around like a sassy bitch saying this:

Only the people with a namebox matter in One Piece, the rest are foot soldiers. And Luffy wasn't able to land a hit on any of them. SO shut your big mouth and stop contradicting yourself and even worse the manga.

Point 2 Sanji did not receive the box on Zou he received the THREAT of receiving a box. Read you moron. You don't understand what you're talking about. You have forgotten so many events that it's impossible to have a decent discussion. You're either letting stuff out, or forgetting about it or are lying about it. And I don't know which one is worse. Either way I'm done talking to you after this post.

So for the last time. The threat on Zeff's head was already made on Zou by Capone's underling with the long tongue and it was placed by Judge. So running from the wedding or fighting Capone would result into Zeff's decapitation by Vinsmoke assassins.

And apparently you're an expert on yonkou commanders after only seeing 2 in action out of 6. Not even going to burn my fingers on that topic but you can go ahead/ It's not like you're afraid to make a fool out of yourself anyway.

Jack fell in the water, and was not even beaten he was still ready to go if it wasn't for his devil fruit. Who knows if there aren't commanders with travel abilities that aren't bound to the deck of a ship. No one knows. I know one thing Momonosuke is heading to Wano so he can't command Zunisha anymore. The water spraying also is no big deal, On higher ground you stay dry, the minks have been surviving it for a thousand years. And even Jack's smile underlings had no trouble staying dry. Yet a yonkou commander has to suffer the negative effects from it. But Luffy another DF user is somehow fine with it.

Everything in your story is so full of holes and biased. It's ridiculous. Do some homework before you reply again.

Yeah a Luffy off an 11 hour fight with a commander and then being beat by his crew mate, that means nothing for them in the way of feats but you go ahead and keep holding on to it like a Titanic life raft.

As for the Zeff claim you don't actually have anything to support your claim other than your interpretation of the scenes. Vito never mentioned Zeff and Pekoms' explanation says "someone you were involved with" for all we know Vito could have threatened anyone from Zeff to the SH crew but you say it was definitively Zeff just because it helps your stance.

We've seen more than 2 of 6, we've seen WB's too. Btw it's probably best you save your finger strength on this one anyway if you intended to try and say Yonko commanders aren't all within a comparable range.

Sure, Jack wasn't beaten, he just had both his ships broken to pieces ad thrown who knows how far away with a single swipe of a trunk but he wasn't beaten no. But maybe you're right maybe if Jack magically landed on a new boat he could have came back and killed Zunisha that time, wait no he couldn't he'd have gotten fly swatted again.

Yes Momo is heading to Wano now but that's because they decided not to stay on Zou, the discussion was if they stayed on Zou to fight BM, which would mean Momo would still be there so you trying to take him/Zunisha out of the hypothetical doesn't work.

The minks aren't DF users and the minks still get wet in the trees, the point about the water was even without Nami as long as Zunisa is there Luffy can get a water source to take Cracker out with and Momo could instruct Zunisha to release water at strategic times. Luffy was affected by it, all the df users who were unaware of it got affected by it(which would include Cracker unless he's been to Zou before which we have no reason to believe he has) but Luffy would have Momo instructing Zunisha so it wouldn't be an indiscriminate attack like the typical water spouting.

 

[Love Cook]

Yeah a Luffy off an 11 hour fight with a commander and then being beat by his crew mate, that means nothing for them in the way of feats but you go ahead and keep holding on to it like a Titanic life raft.

As for the Zeff claim you don't actually have anything to support your claim other than your interpretation of the scenes. Vito never mentioned Zeff and Pekoms' explanation says "someone you were involved with" for all we know Vito could have threatened anyone from Zeff to the SH crew but you say it was definitively Zeff just because it helps your stance.

We've seen more than 2 of 6, we've seen WB's too. Btw it's probably best you save your finger strength on this one anyway if you intended to try and say Yonko commanders aren't all within a comparable range.

Sure, Jack wasn't beaten, he just had both his ships broken to pieces ad thrown who knows how far away with a single swipe of a trunk but he wasn't beaten no. But maybe you're right maybe if Jack magically landed on a new boat he could have came back and killed Zunisha that time, wait no he couldn't he'd have gotten fly swatted again.

Yes Momo is heading to Wano now but that's because they decided not to stay on Zou, the discussion was if they stayed on Zou to fight BM, which would mean Momo would still be there so you trying to take him/Zunisha out of the hypothetical doesn't work.

The minks aren't DF users and the minks still get wet in the trees, the point about the water was even without Nami as long as Zunisa is there Luffy can get a water source to take Cracker out with and Momo could instruct Zunisha to release water at strategic times. Luffy was affected by it, all the df users who were unaware of it got affected by it(which would include Cracker unless he's been to Zou before which we have no reason to believe he has) but Luffy would have Momo instructing Zunisha so it wouldn't be an indiscriminate attack like the typical water spouting.

Don't turn the enraged army thing around on me. It's you're argument and life raft. You said they were having trouble I just said they were not. Get over it.

My Zeff claim still stands. I used Zeff as example, but so what if the threat wasn't Zeff but what if it was Ivankov or Nami ? Point still stands. Sanji had to comply on Zou.

Yes, Jack wasn't beaten. Because he was in good fighting condition. Like I said if Big Mom or Kaidou have a commander with an ability that gets them on top of Zunisha they would be screwed. Or as soon as someone gets Jack out of the water. If you think the battle with Cracker and Jack represent how the future battles with Sweet Commanders will go you'll be in for a harsh surprise. One had the defense to stand up against G4 and Luffy for 11 hours and one fell of a ship. While both under other circumstances would've wiped the opposition alone.

Momo not being on Zou still stands, or did they announce to the world that they were leaving for Wano ? That would save Kaidou from hunting him and Raizou down. When they fish up Jack, what do think the first place is where he is going back to ?

Minks might not be DF users but Kaidou's smile army is, they were not too bothered by the water.

Are you going to repeat your nonsense for a third time now ?

 

[chopstickchakra]

Don't turn the enraged army thing around on me. It's you're argument and life raft. You said they were having trouble I just said they were not. Get over it.

My Zeff claim still stands. I used Zeff as example, but so what if the threat wasn't Zeff but what if it was Ivankov or Nami ? Point still stands. Sanji had to comply on Zou.

Yes, Jack wasn't beaten. Because he was in good fighting condition. Like I said if Big Mom or Kaidou have a commander with an ability that gets them on top of Zunisha they would be screwed. Or as soon as someone gets Jack out of the water. If you think the battle with Cracker and Jack represent how the future battles with Sweet Commanders will go you'll be in for a harsh surprise. One had the defense to stand up against G4 and Luffy for 11 hours and one fell of a ship. While both under other circumstances would've wiped the opposition alone.

Momo not being on Zou still stands, or did they announce to the world that they were leaving for Wano ? That would save Kaidou from hunting him and Raizou down. When they fish up Jack, what do think the first place is where he is going back to ?

Minks might not be DF users but Kaidou's smile army is, they were not too bothered by the water.

Are you going to repeat your nonsense for a third time now ?

Nobody's turning anything around, the enraged army mass was useless against a weakened Luffy and the big names were only able to take him in because of his condition from Cracker and Sanji. You claiming the Enraged Army is a threat to a Luffy that didn't fight Cracker/Sanji is a joke because that's putting them above Cracker one of BM's commanders. The enraged army means nothing because of the condition Luffy was in when they apprehended him, you're acting/speaking like the enraged army could take down 100% Luffy on their own just because the manga showed them get the better of a Luffy that was around or(more likely) below 50%.

No he didn't have to he chose to that's the point.

No they wouldn't be screwed just because the commander could get on top of Zou because as we saw if that commander is Cracker he gets handled. If that commander doesn't have a power greater than that of Jack or the poison weapon then they wouldn't be able to subdue the Minks let alone the minks + SH's and co.

We don't know Luffy used G4 for 11 hours so that "Cracker stood to G4 for 11 hours" is fan thought. Cracker's own explanation really shows it wasn't 11 hours of G4 onslaught like he hit Doffy with. Luffy also admitted he stopped trying to break the biscuits and started eating them so it clearly wasn't 11 hours of G4, it was an 11 hour fight with G4 throughout but not a consistent usage. Also, Cracker's fight isn't indicative of fights with other commanders it's indicative of how the fight would go if he went to Zou to attack, regardless of whether he fought Luffy on WCI with Nami or on Zou with Nami and everyone else, it'd end the same.

Momo not being on Zou doesn't stand at all in this discussion because we've been talking about how it could play out if Sanji hadn't left for the wedding and BM sent her crew after them at Zou. That means by default in this scenario we've been discussing none of the crew leaves Zou, they reject the wedding and stay on Zou meanwhile BM hears about the refusal and sends crews after them on Zou, that's the discussion so Momo and everyone else for the sake of this discussion is still on Zou.

It's never been touched on yet if artificial fruit users, who don't have a fruits power through their whole body as we saw with sheeps head's partial transformation, are effected the same way. What we did see was all of the SH's with DF powers needing to be saved during the water spout, there's no evidence to suggest Cracker would be any different and basing your assumption off of the Smile users is folly since they aren't the same as Cracker, to get an accurate comparison you would need to compare him to an actual DF user and we saw how that played out.

I'm gonna repeat my stance as long as you keep repeating your stance or until you can provide evidence or reason strong enough to sway my opinion on the matter that's typically how discussions/debates like these go. Though I will say it's the tool of a weak presenter to continually try and belittle opposing views as nonsense.

For the record, I thought you were done responding?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Nobody's turning anything around, the enraged army mass was useless against a weakened Luffy and the big names were only able to take him in because of his condition from Cracker and Sanji.

You have no way of knowing that.

You claiming the Enraged Army is a threat to a Luffy that didn't fight Cracker/Sanji is a joke because that's putting them above Cracker one of BM's commanders

An entire army being stronger than one person? Impossible! Inconceivable! Improbable!

Let's not also forget that Luffy only beat Cracker under special circumstances. We don't know how Luffy would fair vs Cracker one on one, though it doesn't look good for him.

The enraged army means nothing because of the condition Luffy was in when they apprehended him, you're acting/speaking like the enraged army could take down 100% Luffy on their own just because the manga showed them get the better of a Luffy that was around or(more likely) below 50%.

It's inconclusive. There's no proof that Luffy would be able to take on the entire Enraged Army by himself at 100%.

 

[Bogard]

Well the last panel just summarized "Sanji's year". He keeps on getting shat on ever since the timeskip and it became even worse during his own year. At this point even if he manages to redeem himself, it won't totally excuse the poor state of his current status from giving up on your friends, becoming Big Mom's dog and counting on a girl you just met who trashed you in the end. As if the Okama years in Ivankov's island wasn't enough, as if the nosebleed weren't enough, as if the timeskip in itself wasn't enough. Well what can i say? At least i hope he kicks Pudding in the face and give up on this "shitty chavalry" he couldn't even sacrifice in Enies Lobby when Robin was in danger. Truly a sad sight as far as i'm concerned

Other than that, interested in the Pedro-Tamago duel. I'm surprised it's not Tamago who took Pedro's eye in the end. So far, Pedro seems to be portrayed as stronger. Wonder how it'd end. Same goes for the mirror visit. I guess it'd be used to help Luffy and Nami escape and maybe meeting Sanji. A little disappointed we didn't get a retro on the Big Mom-Brook situation though but i guess with a cliffhanger like this one, i can forget it for the moment

 

[Love Cook]

Nobody's turning anything around, the enraged army mass was useless against a weakened Luffy and the big names were only able to take him in because of his condition from Cracker and Sanji. You claiming the Enraged Army is a threat to a Luffy that didn't fight Cracker/Sanji is a joke because that's putting them above Cracker one of BM's commanders. The enraged army means nothing because of the condition Luffy was in when they apprehended him, you're acting/speaking like the enraged army could take down 100% Luffy on their own just because the manga showed them get the better of a Luffy that was around or(more likely) below 50%.

No he didn't have to he chose to that's the point.

No they wouldn't be screwed just because the commander could get on top of Zou because as we saw if that commander is Cracker he gets handled. If that commander doesn't have a power greater than that of Jack or the poison weapon then they wouldn't be able to subdue the Minks let alone the minks + SH's and co.

We don't know Luffy used G4 for 11 hours so that "Cracker stood to G4 for 11 hours" is fan thought. Cracker's own explanation really shows it wasn't 11 hours of G4 onslaught like he hit Doffy with. Luffy also admitted he stopped trying to break the biscuits and started eating them so it clearly wasn't 11 hours of G4, it was an 11 hour fight with G4 throughout but not a consistent usage. Also, Cracker's fight isn't indicative of fights with other commanders it's indicative of how the fight would go if he went to Zou to attack, regardless of whether he fought Luffy on WCI with Nami or on Zou with Nami and everyone else, it'd end the same.

Momo not being on Zou doesn't stand at all in this discussion because we've been talking about how it could play out if Sanji hadn't left for the wedding and BM sent her crew after them at Zou. That means by default in this scenario we've been discussing none of the crew leaves Zou, they reject the wedding and stay on Zou meanwhile BM hears about the refusal and sends crews after them on Zou, that's the discussion so Momo and everyone else for the sake of this discussion is still on Zou.

It's never been touched on yet if artificial fruit users, who don't have a fruits power through their whole body as we saw with sheeps head's partial transformation, are effected the same way. What we did see was all of the SH's with DF powers needing to be saved during the water spout, there's no evidence to suggest Cracker would be any different and basing your assumption off of the Smile users is folly since they aren't the same as Cracker, to get an accurate comparison you would need to compare him to an actual DF user and we saw how that played out.

I'm gonna repeat my stance as long as you keep repeating your stance or until you can provide evidence or reason strong enough to sway my opinion on the matter that's typically how discussions/debates like these go. Though I will say it's the tool of a weak presenter to continually try and belittle opposing views as nonsense.

For the record, I thought you were done responding?

I was done responding but you were not done lying and twisting my words. So I had to respond again.

In this post you're stating that I said Luffy used G4 for 11 hours. WRONG ! I never said that. But I understand that reading is not your strong point. It is not Crackers problem that Luffy is not able to maintain that form for 11 hours while Cracker had no problem using his ability for 11 hours.

I bet you also glossed over the fact that Jack brought Zou to the brink of destruction the first time when you said he was unable to do that. But When I reminded you you went all George W. Bush in this shit putting a ban on weapons all of a sudden.

The only reason Cracker was defeated was because of Nami who wasn't attacked because of her Vivre card. I wonder how that will turn out when she has to fend some pleasures or gifters off. Who else is going to penetrate a defense that took a gear fourth attack to destroy ?

Jack was also seen standing in the water after a Rainruption, He is too tall for the sea water to have an effect on him. Your speculation of smiles being unaffected by water is false, We've already seen Momo being affected by it, and he is a SMILE eater. So do your research instead of spouting nonsense.

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You also missed the point about Jack hurting Zunisha the first time around, and the fact that Zunisha was being controlled by Momo in order to attack. And you forgot about Big Mom putting down a beating on Apoo (which turned out to be Urouge). You forgot the original threat against the lives of Sanji's friends was made on Zou and not on WCI.

So as you can see it's pretty much an uphill battle for me to put arguments on the table against someone who doesn't exactly what happened.

Also if Sanji never went to Zou, the original plan would still stand of Kinnemon to go to Wano. That would've happened either way. Momo has nothing to do with Big Mom. So again with him not on Zou Zunisha is defenseless. And Jack is still fuming on the bottom of the sea.

And once more Sanji's hand was played by his father by making the threat. Him not accepting the invitation would've lead into the death of his friends. Capone made that very clear. So not going to WCI was not an option. Even if you say he had a choice, in reality he had not.

Speaking of tools. I think you're not the sharpest tool in the shed. Read into the subject some more buddy and try a logical approach, so far you've only been twisting your own words on the enraged army and Jack topics or presenting false hoods about Jack and smiles and even lying about things that I've said.

It might be close to Christmas but If I see you post something again that makes no sense I will burn you. So a discussion is welcome, but don't post your subjective assumptive inaccurate and incomplete bullshit.

 

[Lord Orange]

I know its just me but I am pretty sure that pudding is not like that.....she is just pretending to be like that as by this way, sanji will have to break the marriage.

 

[ssjelf]

I know its just me but I am pretty sure that pudding is not like that.....she is just pretending to be like that as by this way, sanji will have to break the marriage.

Dont worry, im right with you

 

[Punk Hazard]

from giving up on your friends

Where did Sanji give up on his friends? And no, leaving the crew as part of a deal to protect them is NOT the same thing.

becoming Big Mom's dog

Again, to protect his frineds. That's why it's called sacrifice.

and counting on a girl you just met who trashed you in the end.

It was literally the only thing that appeared positive in a shitshow.

Again, it's funny how people have all these problems with Sanji's decisions, but also can't give one example of better ones.

Blaming Sanji for the shit that's happened to him is like going "Ugh, look at kid Robin. No family, no friends, all her people dead and she's on the run. How pathetic."

Crazy how in a manga where all the main characters have terrible shit happen to them against their will, we suddenly get to a point where we stupidly blame a character for experiencing terrible shit against his will just because it's Sanji.

 

[Lord Orange]

Dont worry, im right with you

Ohh thank god, somebody is with me.