[Predictions] One Piece Manga Chapter 788 Discussion and 789 Predictions

[saw2097]

Unless the guy can teleport, it would obviously take him more than ten minutes. Just from this post, it seems as if you're assuming that (a) our dear Admiral knows about Doflamingo's current condition, (b) that Fujitora's gravitational-based powers wouldn't be restricted under these circumstances, and (c) that a restricted Fujitora could take out (as far as Fujitora is aware) a good-to-go Doflamingo in less than ten minutes, or even as much as half an hour.



So two or three swings with his sword, then?



First of all, you don't know what nerfing means. Secondly; yes, Oda's writing has flaws - even though rarely - but this is not one of those times. It's already been explained why Fujitora won't fight Doflamingo himself. You see stuff like this in war all the time-- not that I know a sh*t about war, but just bear with me here. There are times when soldiers abandon their mission to save their squad's skin, knowing fully well that failing that mission could potentially cause hundreds, if not thousands of other deaths. Sometimes someone's beliefs just stride against what's smartest. Fujitora don't plan on playing the Marine hero. He wants to protect the Dressrosians his way, not by fighting a guy with unbreakable shades, but by stopping the shrinking cage. Is this so hard to understand?



His own ideals are stopping him. Also, let's not forget the limited amount of time he's got, with his limited power. There's the distance, as well, but I guess that's arguable.



You do know that Fujitora is "technically" on Doflamingo's side, right? Fujitora's got orders, too, you know. He's there to help Doflamingo, because the latter demanded it. The World Government, afraid of the threat Doflamingo poses, respond to these demands. Now that the Birdcage is up, Fujitora can't contact HQ. This is why he's still following his old orders, because there aren't any "new" ones. This was made clear in

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. According to Doflamingo, the Marines won't attack them-- even after Doflamingo put up the Birdcage and started massacring people, Fujitora decided to follow orders. Solid enough reason for you?

You know people keep saying that Fujitora doesn't want to stop Doflamingo, he just wants to save the civilians from the bird cage.

But here is what they leave out, the only way to stop the bird cage is to take out Doflamingo, because they are just buying time to delay the bird cage, it is still shrinking, and when it gets going, all the civilians die anyway. Making all this protecting the civilians completely pointless and irrelevent.

So the only real way to protect them and to save them, is to take out Doflamingo.

The truth is, that the author needs an excuse so that Luffy is the one that takes out Doflamingo, and while I understand that as Luffy is the main character he will be the hero in the end, the author could have given Fujitora a much better excuse then, "we don't play god, we just protect civilians," when the only way to actually save them is to take out Doflamingo.

As for orders, Smoker turned out Crocodile by his own free will, and Fujitora turned on Law without orders, once he heard that Law had allied himself with the Straw Hats, he just said, "okay, you are under arrest and are no longer a warlord."

If he can do that, he can turn on Doflamingo with Doflamingo trying to kill civilians and even marines.

 

[A v i]

Unless the guy can teleport, it would obviously take him more than ten minutes. Just from this post, it seems as if you're assuming that (a) our dear Admiral knows about Doflamingo's current condition, (b) that Fujitora's gravitational-based powers wouldn't be restricted under these circumstances, and (c) that a restricted Fujitora could take out (as far as Fujitora is aware) a good-to-go Doflamingo in less than ten minutes, or even as much as half an hour.

It happened in canon so it's not my fault. Here [

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] you can see Fujitora landing the ship at coast and Law hitting the ground before Zoro at the same time. Yet Fujitora reached their place in no time. It definitely didn't took him 10 min.

I don't understand what part of my post implied something like that. But I don't have such an intention and let me tell you one thing. Fujitora can do the job much easier than Luffy can even imagine at his current level.

That's the side effect of overusing his abilities. Under other circumstances, he would have no problem creating a bigger sphere. Two or three swings with his sword would be enough to create just as much chaos in Dressrosa, I believe.

It nothing but mere assumption. His room at PH was much smaller than the on he used at Dressrosa so there is nothing that hints that he can use much bigger room or that the side effect comes from over use of his ability not because of the size of the room.

First of all, you don't know what nerfing means. Secondly; yes, Oda's writing has flaws - even though rarely - but this is not one of those times. It's already been explained why Fujitora won't fight Doflamingo himself. You see stuff like this in war all the time-- not that I know a sh*t about war, but just bear with me here. There are times when soldiers abandon their mission to save their squad's skin, knowing fully well that failing that mission could potentially cause hundreds, if not thousands of other deaths. Sometimes someone's beliefs just stride against what's smartest. Fujitora don't plan on playing the Marine hero. He wants to protect the Dressrosians his way, not by fighting a guy with unbreakable shades, but by stopping the shrinking cage. Is this so hard to understand?

That's really lame to be used as an excuse. What the actual f** the point of being an admiral when everything you can do is to roam around and use lame ass methods to save people while counting on pirates to do his job? He's ready to kill Law just because he joined hands with Luffy. He's ready to fight Zoro just because he tried to attack Joker. But for someone unknown reason he's counting on someone that can even defeat Joker on his own to do his job? In what sense pushing birdcage is a better idea than actually defeating Joker? Because he choose to? Why? As I have pointed it out he doesn't have an appropriate reason to restrain himself from arresting Joker.

His own ideals are stopping him. Also, let's not forget the limited amount of time he's got, with his limited power. There's the distance, as well, but I guess that's arguable.

I wonder what those ideals are. Him letting Joker hurt people is definitely against his ideals as far as I know. .

You do know that Fujitora is "technically" on Doflamingo's side, right? Fujitora's got orders, too, you know. He's there to help Doflamingo, because the latter demanded it. The World Government, afraid of the threat Doflamingo poses, respond to these demands. Now that the Birdcage is up, Fujitora can't contact HQ. This is why he's still following his old orders, because there aren't any "new" ones. This was made clear in

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. According to Doflamingo, the Marines won't attack them-- even after Doflamingo put up the Birdcage and started massacring people, Fujitora decided to follow orders. Solid enough reason for you?

Fujitora is there to take care of Law and co not to help Joker. There was no order to help him.Joker was referring to the mutual understanding b/w him and Fujitora in that page. Fujotora already made it clear that he'd take care of Joker when he's done with law and Luffy. So there is no order to stop him. He cares more about safety of civilians and they're now being threatened by Joker yet he refused to make him move which makes 0 sense. Joker is the origin of everything that currently going on in that country and everyone incuding clueless people such as Zoro understands that stopping Joker is the only way to stop everything yet he's counting on a pirate to do his job when he can actually do it much easily.

 

[Skylar Knight]

You know people keep saying that Fujitora doesn't want to stop Doflamingo, he just wants to save the civilians from the bird cage.

But here is what they leave out, the only way to stop the bird cage is to take out Doflamingo, because they are just buying time to delay the bird cage, it is still shrinking, and when it gets going, all the civilians die anyway. Making all this protecting the civilians completely pointless and irrelevent.

So the only real way to protect them and to save them, is to take out Doflamingo.

The truth is, that the author needs an excuse so that Luffy is the one that takes out Doflamingo, and while I understand that as Luffy is the main character he will be the hero in the end, the author could have given Fujitora a much better excuse then, "we don't play god, we just protect civilians," when the only way to actually save them is to take out Doflamingo.

As for orders, Smoker turned out Crocodile by his own free will, and Fujitora turned on Law without orders, once he heard that Law had allied himself with the Straw Hats, he just said, "okay, you are under arrest and are no longer a warlord."

If he can do that, he can turn on Doflamingo with Doflamingo trying to kill civilians and even marines.

No one's leaving that out. If you read every post in this thread, how Fujitora should just go and defeat Doflamingo himself, has probably been mentioned at least fourteen times. You see, most characters can't just go and defeat Doflamingo under these circumstances. Not only won't they reach his location before time runs out, but most of them doesn't even stand a chance against him, even if he's as injured as he is. "That's just stupid; a handful of them should be able to defeat Doflamingo in his current condition!" Then let's assume they can-- how would they know that Doflamingo is in the condition he's in? For all they know, his health bar could be at its peak.

I'm going to ask you a simple question, okay? Don't you think there are people like Fujitora out there in the real world? If so, why're you complaining about his personality when it could possibly be a copy of your neighbor's? If not, you don't know nearly enough people to judge on a character's reasoning. Just because you're not satisfied with his "excuse", doesn't mean others agree.

First of all, Smoker and Issho are two completely different characters, with completely different set of ideals. Don't compare them. Secondly, Fujitora never turned on his orders, he followed them thoroughly. The Marines wanted him to investigate the rumors of Law's alliance with the Strawhats. If they were true, he was to revoke Law's status as a Shichibukai.

Again, Fujitora has orders to follow.

 

[Mephew D Kensei]

I have been thinking and I think had Fuji been placed out the cage, his doing nothing and excuses for not just knocking Doffy out wld b not so questionable plot devices.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Skylar pretty much hitting the nail on the head with each post.

 

[saw2097]

No one's leaving that out. If you read every post in this thread, how Fujitora should just go and defeat Doflamingo himself has probably been mentioned at least fourteen times. You see, most characters can't under these circumstances. Not only won't they reach Doflamingo's location before time runs out, but most of them doesn't even stand a chance against him, even if he's as injured as he is. "That's just stupid; a handful of them should be able to defeat Doflamingo in his current condition!" Then let's assume they can-- how would they know that Doflamingo is in the condition he's in? For all they know, his health bar could be at top.

I'm going to ask you a simple question, okay? Don't you think there are people like Fujitora out there in the real world? If so, why're you complaining about his personality when it could possibly be a copy of your neighbor's? If not, you don't know nearly enough people to judge on a character's reasoning. Just because you're not satisfied with his "excuse", doesn't mean others agree.

First of all, Smoker and Issho are two completely different characters, with completely different set of ideals. Don't compare them. Secondly, Fujitora never turned on his orders, he followed them thoroughly. The Marines wanted him to investigate the rumors of Law's alliance with the Strawhats. If they were true, he was to revoke Law's status as a Shichibukai.

Again, Fujitora has orders to follow.

He was not that far away earlier and yet he didn't even bother stepping in, so he doesn't get that excuse either. Fujitora is a admiral, defeating Doflamingo would be a piece of cake, or he could just help Luffy when Luffy was fighting him for over 20 minutes.

Saying their ideals are different is just another excuse, unless his ideals are don't do everything you can to prevent people from being crushed to death.

If someone who was at a much lower rank can turn on and move to try to take down a warlord, than a admiral can too.

Heck HQ tried to cover the fact that Luffy took down Crocodile and pin it on Smoker, even gave him a promotion.

Doflamingo is planning to kill everyone, what he is doing is worse then what Crocodile was doing, if his duty is to protect people then the only way to do that is to take out Doflamingo, so it doesn't go against his job, it is actually part of it.

As for orders, its called the fog of war, leaders are allowed to make decisions on their own if they are in the middle of such a crisis.

By your argument he is already breaking the rules and going against orders by helping slow the bird cage as he is working with pirates, he was never ordered to do so, and he is not maintaining order in Dressorsa among the civilians.

So he is already, according to you, going against orders.

If he is allowed to help the pirates slow the bird cage, then their is no reason he can't take out Doflamingo.

And you are using personality as an excuse?


He is an admiral, and according to him its his job to protect the civilians and he isn't bothering to help do the one thing that would save the civilians.

If a cop could save five hostages by shooting a man with a gun and he has a clean shot and his personality keeps him from doing it, is that a excuse too?

If a doctor could save a man's life by doing a operation, and his personality keeps him from doing it, is that a excuse?

If a firefighter could save someone in a burning building and he lets them die because of his personality, is that a legitimate excuse?

Because according to you it is.

I have been thinking and I think had Fuji been placed out the cage, his doing nothing and excuses for not just knocking Doffy out wld b not so questionable plot devices.

Your absolutely correct, the situation would make far more sense if Fujitora was trapped outside the bird cage as that would explain why he won't deal with Doflamingo.

 

[A v i]

No one's leaving that out. If you read every post in this thread, how Fujitora should just go and defeat Doflamingo himself has probably been mentioned at least fourteen times. You see, most characters can't under these circumstances. Not only won't they reach Doflamingo's location before time runs out, but most of them doesn't even stand a chance against him, even if he's as injured as he is. "That's just stupid; a handful of them should be able to defeat Doflamingo in his current condition!" Then let's assume they can-- how would they know that Doflamingo is in the condition he's in? For all they know, his health bar could be at top.

I'm going to ask you a simple question, okay? Don't you think there are people like Fujitora out there in the real world? If so, why're you complaining about his personality when it could possibly be a copy of your neighbor's? If not, you don't know nearly enough people to judge on a character's reasoning. Just because you're not satisfied with his "excuse", doesn't mean others agree.

First of all, Smoker and Issho are two completely different characters, with completely different set of ideals. Don't compare them. Secondly, Fujitora never turned on his orders, he followed them thoroughly. The Marines wanted him to investigate the rumors of Law's alliance with the Strawhats. If they were true, he was to revoke Law's status as a Shichibukai.

Again, Fujitora has orders to follow.

Some characters doesn't have to know his condition to go after his head. Zoro would have most certainly went to help Luffy if it isn't for Oda separating Zoro from Luffy using an illogical and clueless reason. I still don't understand why Pica decided to kill Riku on a whim. His goal from the beginning was to stop everyone who tries to get near Joker. He understands that Zoro'd most likely go after Joker if he won't stop him yet for some unknown reason he wants to kill Riku and ignore Zoro. yup he doesn't give two shits about Doffy's safety and god knows what his reasons for abandoning Joker.

Thanks to Viola , He know Luffy was injured by Bellamy , he know that Law was fodderized/Killed by Joker, He know that the match is unfair, he know that Luffy is outnumbered. Yet he was like F*** that shit ,I believe in Luffy so I won't help him. Besides I just finished my business so I need rest. The irony is that he's the one who tries to rely on Luffy the least and he's the one who understand the most that Luffy can't do everything by himself.

Another thing that I don't understand is that why on earth Sabo would pick a fodder job such as releasing fodders and send Kola on a dangerous job? The whole family is at the palace , everyone can see Pica from any corner of the country yet he sent Kola despite knowing that it's risky.

Last but not the least Fujitora , Why on blue earth must he count on Luffy? Zoro,Law,Viola, Riku and even Kyros has an appropriate reason to stand behind Luffy. Some of them are either closer to Luffy and understands him the most or that they're less capable than him hence counting on Luffy. But what reason Fujitora can offer to restrain himself from doing the job? Don't give me that he has orders crap. He doesn't have such an order from anyone and even if he do it's not enough to stop him from attacking Joker. A vice admiral already suggested him to arrest Joker which means that his position as a warlord can be overlooked if the situation arises and there is enough proof to arrest him. Needless to say that Fujitora on more than one occasion implied that he'd go after Joker's head if it's necessary.

I won't blame Oda for doing all of this as it's the best possible way to make Luffy's main character title relevant. You guys need to understand that Oda has been making roads so that Luffy'd get the credit for defeating Joker.

 

[Skylar Knight]

He was not that far away earlier and yet he didn't even bother stepping in, so he doesn't get that excuse either. Fujitora is a admiral, defeating Doflamingo would be a piece of cake, or he could just help Luffy when Luffy was fighting him for over 20 minutes.

Saying their ideals are different is just another excuse, unless his ideals are don't do everything you can to prevent people from being crushed to death.

If someone who was at a much lower rank can turn on and move to try to take down a warlord, than a admiral can too.

Heck HQ tried to cover the fact that Luffy took down Crocodile and pin it on Smoker, even gave him a promotion.

Doflamingo is planning to kill everyone, what he is doing is worse then what Crocodile was doing, if his duty is to protect people then the only way to do that is to take out Doflamingo, so it doesn't go against his job, it is actually part of it.

As for orders, its called the fog of war, leaders are allowed to make decisions on their own if they are in the middle of such a crisis.

By your argument he is already breaking the rules and going against orders by helping slow the bird cage as he is working with pirates, he was never ordered to do so, and he is not maintaining order in Dressorsa among the civilians.

So he is already, according to you, going against orders.

If he is allowed to help the pirates slow the bird cage, then their is no reason he can't take out Doflamingo.

And you are using personality as an excuse?


He is an admiral, and according to him its his job to protect the civilians and he isn't bothering to help do the one thing that would save the civilians.

If a cop could save five hostages by shooting a man with a gun and he has a clean shot and his personality keeps him from doing it, is that a excuse too?

If a doctor could save a man's life by doing a operation, and his personality keeps him from doing it, is that a excuse?

If a firefighter could save someone in a burning building and he lets them die because of his personality, is that a legitimate excuse?

Because according to you it is.

Can we stop the whole "Fujitora could easily go and defeat Doflamingo, and blah blah blabety blah!" discussion? He's made it clear why he doesn't want to be the one to fight Doflamingo. He's obviously disgusted by the Marines' absolute justice, and is therefore trying his best to avoid this 'trend'. That's just the kind of character he is. It's not just some petty "excuse" because you disagree with it. Learn to cope with different personalities.

Smoker never had any intention of catching nor defeating Crocodile. He was in Alabasta to catch the Strawhats, but was locked up in the same cell as the rest of them at some point in the arc. There he met Crocodile, which would be the first and last time he exchanged words with said Shichibukai. After freeing himself, he went to the coast of Alabasta and stayed there after leaving the rest to Tashigi. He never went against his orders, so let's not try that. Also, I'm pretty sure Crocodile was planning to kill everyone with that bomb of his, but what do I know about life.

Yes, like you said, people with enough authority can make decisions on their own under certain circumstances. Fujitora has already made his decision and ordered his troops to gather the citizens in one place where they can protect them. Fujitora isn't going against anyone's orders, so let's not try that either. The decision he took has probably saved hundreds, if not thousands of lives already. Using the same example as you did with the firefighters: they're there to protect people from fire, not hunt down the guy who started it. Even if taking down the person who started the fire would, for some reason, put out said fire; they have no way of knowing how long it could take and precious lives could therefore be lost.

Some characters doesn't have to know his condition to go after his head. Zoro would have most certainly went to help Luffy if it isn't for Oda separating Zoro from Luffy using an illogical and clueless reason. I still don't understand why Pica decided to kill Riku on a whim. His goal from the beginning was to stop everyone who tries to get near Joker. He understands that Zoro'd most likely go after Joker if he won't stop him yet for some unknown reason he wants to kill Riku and ignore Zoro. yup he doesn't give two shits about Doffy's safety and god knows what his reasons for abandoning Joker.

Thanks to Viola , He know Luffy was injured by Bellamy , he know that Law was fodderized/Killed by Joker, He know that the match is unfair, he know that Luffy is outnumbered. Yet he was like F*** that shit ,I believe in Luffy so I won't help him. Besides I just finished my business so I need rest. The irony is that he's the one who tries to rely on Luffy the least and he's the one who understand the most that Luffy can't do everything by himself.

Another thing that I don't understand is that why on earth Sabo would pick a fodder job such as releasing fodders and send Kola on a dangerous job? The whole family is at the palace , everyone can see Pica from any corner of the country yet he sent Kola despite knowing that it's risky.

Last but not the least Fujitora , Why on blue earth must he count on Luffy? Zoro,Law,Viola, Riku and even Kyros has an appropriate reason to stand behind Luffy. Some of them are either closer to Luffy and understands him the most or that they're less capable than him hence counting on Luffy. But what reason Fujitora can offer to restrain himself from doing the job? Don't give me that he has orders crap. He doesn't have such an order from anyone and even if he do it's not enough to stop him from attacking Joker. A vice admiral already suggested him to arrest Joker which means that his position as a warlord can be overlooked if the situation arises and there is enough proof to arrest him. Needless to say that Fujitora on more than one occasion implied that he'd go after Joker's head if it's necessary.

I won't blame Oda for doing all of this as it's the best possible way to make Luffy's main character title relevant. You guys need to understand that Oda has been making roads so that Luffy'd get the credit for defeating Joker.

I wonder what fuss you made when Zoro decided to stand still and watch as Luffy fought Lucci, or when he, again, stood still and watched as Luffy went all out against Gekko Moriah's Shadows Asgard. Zoro believes in his captain. Why would he go and join any of these fights when he truly believes his captain will, in the end, win. Whether you're satisfied with such an answer, doesn't really matter. One Piece is just a story. Any of these characters can do whatever they feel fit the situation. The same goes for Pica. The fact that people thought that Riku Dold III was more fit for the throne than Doflamingo, simply enraged him-- and so he tried to crush the former king into little bits of pieces. What is it that you don't get? You should go and read Molecules of Emotion: Why Do You Feel The Way You Feel. Great book. Goes into details about how emotions affect both mind and body.

This is, like, the sixth time you bring in your own made up facts and interpretations, which I'm starting to find quite annoying. Fujitora does not know what condition Luffy and Law are in. He was not present during Viola's summary of their battle with Doflamingo.

What was so dangerous about Koala's job, exactly? Even Sabo thought she'd be able to pull it off without a hitch. [

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] Anyway, why're we changing the topic to Sabo and Koala? We're discussing this week's chapter.

Again with your made up facts. Fujitora never implied that he'd go after Doflamingo if necessary. In fact, it's just the opposite. He's stated over and over again that he's not going after Doflamingo. If you're referring to when Fujitora said he'd "take care" of Doflamingo later, you seem to have interpreted it the wrong way. During the little quarrel he had with Doflamingo, Fujitora mentioned there were certain things that he wanted to accomplish. One of those things is the total discarding of the Shichibukai system. He's planning to propose this at the Reverie, a council formed by the World Government, held every four years. This is how he's going to "take care" of Doflamingo. Not by fighting him, but with politics.

I won't blame Oda for doing all of this as it's the best possible way to make Luffy's main character title relevant. You guys need to understand that Oda has been making roads so that Luffy'd get the credit for defeating Joker.

Of course we know that, we've all heard of storytelling. In almost every arc, Oda's making it so that Luffy can be the hero. We get that. That's why we don't complain about trivial things, such as who could've fought this or that guy, or why a character's reasoning is like it is. It's a story - a damn good one at that - so don't throw a fit every time you find something that doesn't make sense to you.

 

[A v i]

I wonder what fuss you made when Zoro decided to stand still and watch as Luffy fought Lucci, or when he, again, stood still and watched as Luffy went all out against Gekko Moriah's Shadows Asgard. Zoro believes in his captain. Why would he go and join any of these fights when he truly believes his captain will, in the end, win. Whether you're satisfied with such an answer, doesn't really matter. One Piece is just a story. Any of these characters can do whatever they feel fit the situation. The same goes for Pica. The fact that people thought that Riku Dold III was more fit for the throne than Doflamingo, simply enraged him-- and so he tried to crush the former king into little bits of pieces. What is it that you don't get? You should go and read Molecules of Emotion: Why Do You Feel The Way You Feel. Great book. Goes into details about how emotions affect both mind and body.

This is, like, the sixth time you bring in your own made up facts and interpretations, which I'm starting to find quite annoying. Fujitora does not know what condition Luffy and Law are in. He was not present during Viola's summary of their battle with Doflamingo.

What was so dangerous about Koala's job, exactly? Even Sabo thought she'd be able to pull it off without a hitch. [

You must be registered for see links

] Anyway, why're we changing the topic to Sabo and Koala? We're discussing this week's chapter.

Again with your made up facts. Fujitora never implied that he'd go after Doflamingo if necessary. In fact, it's just the opposite. He's stated over and over again that he's not going after Doflamingo. If you're referring to when Fujitora said he'd "take care" of Doflamingo later, you seem to have interpreted it the wrong way. During the little quarrel he had with Doflamingo, Fujitora mentioned there were certain things that he wanted to accomplish. One of those things is the total discarding of the Shichibukai system. He's planning to propose this at the Reverie, a council formed by the World Government, held every four years. This is how he's going to "take care" of Doflamingo. Not by fighting him, but with politics.




Of course we know that, we've all heard of storytelling. In almost every arc, Oda's making it so that Luffy can be the hero. We get that. That's why we don't complain about trivial things, such as who could've fought this or that guy, or why a character's reasoning is like it is. It's a story - a damn good one at that - so don't throw a fit every time you find something that doesn't make sense to you.

Zoro believes in his captain is such a convincing statement to use. I know Zoro believes in his captain and all. I am well aware of how much he trusts in Luffy. But he's also the who understands that there is a limit to how much Luffy can do on his own. He didn't just stand there and do noting when they fought Oz. He fought along side Luffy, because he understands that Luffy can't do that alone despite having unquestionable faith in Luffy. He did the same against Kuzan and pacifista because he know that Luffy gets beaten or that Luffy is at a disadvantage.

Luffy is wounded ,outnumbered and mismatched by opposite team so there no way in hell for Zoro to show no concern in such a situation yet he restrained himself from making any move. It's not a matter of whether I am satisfied or not. It's a matter of whether the given reason sounds logical or not. I am nothing more than a mere fan who reads the writers work for free. I have no possible right to even complain , as he can do whatever he wants with his own manga and all I can do is to accept it or quite the manga if I can't stand his work. I am merely pointing out the flaws in his work. Everything has a reason & Anyone can come up with a reason for every little thing. But that won't cut it out. The given reason should make some sense.

Oda has always been restraining people from getting in Luffy's way in a way or another in order to shine Luffy's character. Luffy is the main character, he should be the one to beat the main villain. So he's doing whatever it takes to make him fight main villain. There is nothing wrong with it. That's what he did when he restrained Zoro from getting involved in Luffy's battle with Lucci, Moriah and that's what he's currently doing. I don't even get why it's so hard to accept.


You're such a great reader. I know how Pica feels about Riku as I can read it in manga so you don't have to explain things that happened in manga to me. But I appreciate your effort. As a being that can use brain, one should have appropriate reason to take an action or make a move. I can't go around and say 4*4= 1 because I feel like it. Can I? Will anyone accept it? It's not something someone with brain and ability to use reasoning would do. No one is asking for his reasons to go after Riku. I am asking you to tell me why he choose to go after him at such a time i.e. when he must stop anyone who tries to go after Joker. It's not like Riku is running away or that Riku will attack Joker if he's not killed on spot. He can kill him whenever he wants yet he choose to ignore his most important mission and went after Riku. Only possible explanation from writers point of view would be that he wants to separate Zoro and Luffy.

What is more annoying here is the fact that you're bringing this argument out of nowhere as I don't have any memory of saying that Fujitora knows Joker's condition or that he should help Luffy because Luffy is currently hopeless. What I am questioning is the point of Fujitora not going after his head in general. Nothing can stop him from attacking Joker. Fujitora already tried to investigate Doflamingo when he heard about his underworld nickname but was stopped because he lacks enough evidence to point his sword at Doflamingo. His highest priority from the beginning was the safety of civilians which is why he tried to stop SH's to go after Joker as they might end up destroying the city and hurting the civilians in the process. But now we have same guy helping them out and counting on them to take care of Joker. So it's not impossible for him to change his mind about taking care of him later and take action.

Fujitora got enough evidence to arrest Joker as soon as the dark side of the country was exposed. A Vice Admiral from marines and countless civilians are the direct witnesses. Joker started threatening people as soon as his actions were exposed. So Fijitora has every possible reason to go after Joker still he didn't which makes 0 sense. You may come up with a reason but it won't cut it out as it'll be nothing more than an excuse to cover his actions. I have already told you that Zoro, Viola, Riku,Law and everyone else has an appropriate or a semi appropriate reason to leave things up to Luffy. Fujitora on the other hand has 0 reason to rely on Luffy.


Kola was at palace where all the family members are present so of course going to such a place is a dangerous job. Sabo's faith is her is secondary. What is more important is the difficulty of the job. As the leader of their group he's supposed to take care of bigger concerns and let the weak go for small tasks. But what happened in reality is quite opposite. We're not going off topic. We are discussing about how Oda is bypassing the possibility of other characters confronting Joker for the sake of Luffy VS Joker. He did it in case of Sabo and that's why I am brining them here.


Whether if Fujitora's going to do it in future or not is irrelevant mate. He literally said that he'll eventually point his sword at him or any war lord for that matter. So just removing his title using politics is same as taking care of Joker? In what way does it even effect that guy? There are countless pirates who're not a shichibukai and still kicking in new world. Joker is no different. Besides he's a tenryuubito and has support form higher authority. Fujitora is well aware of those point so it's stupid to even think that he's implying that he''ll use politics to take care of Joker. So the fact that he's ready to point his sword at Joker remains unchanged. Once again you don't have to explain what happened in manga. I know that he's not planning to go after Joker and I am not complaining about it. I am merely pointing out the fact that he actually has no logical reason to restrain himself from going after Joker. There is a difference.

No one is complaining here. At least not me. What you're doing here is literally no different form what people that are complaining about stuff in manga are doing. It's just that you guys ended up in opposite sides. They're trying use every possible flaw to complain about the series. On the other hand you guys are coming up with every possible excuse to make the series look like perfect when it's not. You guys are simply refusing to accept the reality and coming up with illogical excuses to support your delusional believes. That's all I wanted to point out from the beginning. I am happy with what's happening in manga as I believe that it's the best possible way to handle things. Even if Oda made mistakes that I don't like then I won't complain as I am level headed enough to understand the fact that he's a human like me and is not a perfect being. At the same time I am not stupid enough to blindly support him using pointless excuses just because I like his manga despite understanding that his work has flaws in it.

 

[Anduril]

Zoro believes in his captain is such a convincing statement to use. I know Zoro believes in his captain and all. I am well aware of how much he trusts in Luffy. But he's also the who understands that there is a limit to how much Luffy can do on his own. He didn't just stand there and do noting when they fought Oz. He fought along side Luffy, because he understands that Luffy can't do that alone despite having unquestionable faith in Luffy. He did the same against Kuzan and pacifista because he know that Luffy gets beaten or that Luffy is at a disadvantage.

Luffy is wounded ,outnumbered and mismatched by opposite team so there no way in hell for Zoro to show no concern in such a situation yet he restrained himself from making any move. It's not a matter of whether I am satisfied or not. It's a matter of whether the given reason sounds logical or not. I am nothing more than a mere fan who reads the writers work for free. I have no possible right to even complain , as he can do whatever he wants with his own manga and all I can do is to accept it or quite the manga if I can't stand his work. I am merely pointing out the flaws in his work. Everything has a reason & Anyone can come up with a reason for every little thing. But that won't cut it out. The given reason should make some sense.

Oda has always been restraining people from getting in Luffy's way in a way or another in order to shine Luffy's character. Luffy is the main character, he should be the one to beat the main villain. So he's doing whatever it takes to make him fight main villain. There is nothing wrong with it. That's what he did when he restrained Zoro from getting involved in Luffy's battle with Lucci, Moriah and that's what he's currently doing. I don't even get why it's so hard to accept.


You're such a great reader. I know how Pica feels about Riku as I can read it in manga so you don't have to explain things that happened in manga to me. But I appreciate your effort. As a being that can use brain, one should have appropriate reason to take an action or make a move. I can't go around and say 4*4= 1 because I feel like it. Can I? Will anyone accept it? It's not something someone with brain and ability to use reasoning would do. No one is asking for his reasons to go after Riku. I am asking you to tell me why he choose to go after him at such a time i.e. when he must stop anyone who tries to go after Joker. It's not like Riku is running away or that Riku will attack Joker if he's not killed on spot. He can kill him whenever he wants yet he choose to ignore his most important mission and went after Riku. Only possible explanation from writers point of view would be that he wants to separate Zoro and Luffy.

What is more annoying here is the fact that you're bringing this argument out of nowhere as I don't have any memory of saying that Fujitora knows Joker's condition or that he should help Luffy because Luffy is currently hopeless. What I am questioning is the point of Fujitora not going after his head in general. Nothing can stop him from attacking Joker. Fujitora already tried to investigate Doflamingo when he heard about his underworld nickname but was stopped because he lacks enough evidence to point his sword at Doflamingo. His highest priority from the beginning was the safety of civilians which is why he tried to stop SH's to go after Joker as they might end up destroying the city and hurting the civilians in the process. But now we have same guy helping them out and counting on them to take care of Joker. So it's not impossible for him to change his mind about taking care of him later and take action.

Fujitora got enough evidence to arrest Joker as soon as the dark side of the country was exposed. A Vice Admiral from marines and countless civilians are the direct witnesses. Joker started threatening people as soon as his actions were exposed. So Fijitora has every possible reason to go after Joker still he didn't which makes 0 sense. You may come up with a reason but it won't cut it out as it'll be nothing more than an excuse to cover his actions. I have already told you that Zoro, Viola, Riku,Law and everyone else has an appropriate or a semi appropriate reason to leave things up to Luffy. Fujitora on the other hand has 0 reason to rely on Luffy.


Kola was at palace where all the family members are present so of course going to such a place is a dangerous job. Sabo's faith is her is secondary. What is more important is the difficulty of the job. As the leader of their group he's supposed to take care of bigger concerns and let the weak go for small tasks. But what happened in reality is quite opposite. We're not going off topic. We are discussing about how Oda is bypassing the possibility of other characters confronting Joker for the sake of Luffy VS Joker. He did it in case of Sabo and that's why I am brining them here.


Whether if Fujitora's going to do it in future or not is irrelevant mate. He literally said that he'll eventually point his sword at him or any war lord for that matter. So just removing his title using politics is same as taking care of Joker? In what way does it even effect that guy? There are countless pirates who're not a shichibukai and still kicking in new world. Joker is no different. Besides he's a tenryuubito and has support form higher authority. Fujitora is well aware of those point so it's stupid to even think that he's implying that he''ll use politics to take care of Joker. So the fact that he's ready to point his sword at Joker remains unchanged. Once again you don't have to explain what happened in manga. I know that he's not planning to go after Joker and I am not complaining about it. I am merely pointing out the fact that he actually has no logical reason to restrain himself from going after Joker. There is a difference.

No one is complaining here. At least not me. What you're doing here is literally no different form what people that are complaining about stuff in manga are doing. It's just that you guys ended up in opposite sides. They're trying use every possible flaw to complain about the series. On the other hand you guys are coming up with every possible excuse to make the series look like perfect when it's not. You guys are simply refusing to accept the reality and coming up with illogical excuses to support your delusional believes. That's all I wanted to point out from the beginning. I am happy with what's happening in manga as I believe that it's the best possible way to handle things. Even if Oda made mistakes that I don't like then I won't complain as I am level headed enough to understand the fact that he's a human like me and is not a perfect being. At the same time I am not stupid enough to blindly support him using pointless excuses just because I like his manga despite understanding that his work has flaws in it.

What amount of time did it take to complete the wall that stops the whitewalkers and protects the north? LOL

 

[saw2097]

Can we stop the whole "Fujitora could easily go and defeat Doflamingo, and blah blah blabety blah!" discussion? He's made it clear why he doesn't want to be the one to fight Doflamingo. He's obviously disgusted by the Marines' absolute justice, and is therefore trying his best to avoid this 'trend'. That's just the kind of character he is. It's not just some petty "excuse" because you disagree with it. Learn to cope with different personalities.

Smoker never had any intention of catching nor defeating Crocodile. He was in Alabasta to catch the Strawhats, but was locked up in the same cell as the rest of them at some point in the arc. There he met Crocodile, which would be the first and last time he exchanged words with said Shichibukai. After freeing himself, he went to the coast of Alabasta and stayed there after leaving the rest to Tashigi. He never went against his orders, so let's not try that. Also, I'm pretty sure Crocodile was planning to kill everyone with that bomb of his, but what do I know about life.

Yes, like you said, people with enough authority can make decisions on their own under certain circumstances. Fujitora has already made his decision and ordered his troops to gather the citizens in one place where they can protect them. Fujitora isn't going against anyone's orders, so let's not try that either. The decision he took has probably saved hundreds, if not thousands of lives already. Using the same example as you did with the firefighters: they're there to protect people from fire, not hunt down the guy who started it. Even if taking down the person who started the fire would, for some reason, put out said fire; they have no way of knowing how long it could take and precious lives could therefore be lost.



I wonder what fuss you made when Zoro decided to stand still and watch as Luffy fought Lucci, or when he, again, stood still and watched as Luffy went all out against Gekko Moriah's Shadows Asgard. Zoro believes in his captain. Why would he go and join any of these fights when he truly believes his captain will, in the end, win. Whether you're satisfied with such an answer, doesn't really matter. One Piece is just a story. Any of these characters can do whatever they feel fit the situation. The same goes for Pica. The fact that people thought that Riku Dold III was more fit for the throne than Doflamingo, simply enraged him-- and so he tried to crush the former king into little bits of pieces. What is it that you don't get? You should go and read Molecules of Emotion: Why Do You Feel The Way You Feel. Great book. Goes into details about how emotions affect both mind and body.

This is, like, the sixth time you bring in your own made up facts and interpretations, which I'm starting to find quite annoying. Fujitora does not know what condition Luffy and Law are in. He was not present during Viola's summary of their battle with Doflamingo.

What was so dangerous about Koala's job, exactly? Even Sabo thought she'd be able to pull it off without a hitch. [

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] Anyway, why're we changing the topic to Sabo and Koala? We're discussing this week's chapter.

Again with your made up facts. Fujitora never implied that he'd go after Doflamingo if necessary. In fact, it's just the opposite. He's stated over and over again that he's not going after Doflamingo. If you're referring to when Fujitora said he'd "take care" of Doflamingo later, you seem to have interpreted it the wrong way. During the little quarrel he had with Doflamingo, Fujitora mentioned there were certain things that he wanted to accomplish. One of those things is the total discarding of the Shichibukai system. He's planning to propose this at the Reverie, a council formed by the World Government, held every four years. This is how he's going to "take care" of Doflamingo. Not by fighting him, but with politics.




Of course we know that, we've all heard of storytelling. In almost every arc, Oda's making it so that Luffy can be the hero. We get that. That's why we don't complain about trivial things, such as who could've fought this or that guy, or why a character's reasoning is like it is. It's a story - a damn good one at that - so don't throw a fit every time you find something that doesn't make sense to you.

I know what Fujitora said, and it has nothing to do with why Fujitora hasn't gone to fight Doflamingo.

Fujitora's personality has nothing to do with why he is refusing to fight Doflamingo, he even threatened him earlier. In fact if his personality kept him from fighting a pirate then he would never have reached the rank of admiral as the marines exist for the purpose of fighting pirates like Doflamingo.

Now you are simply nit picking, the reality is that Smoker and his second in command were able to arrest Crocodile on even less evidence then Fujitora has on Doflamingo.

Fujitora is going against orders, he is helping slow the bird cage, which he was never ordered to do and is working with pirates, the very same pirates he was sent to investigate.

So yeah, he is violating his orders.

Oh and every one of those thousands of people he saved, will die anyway if Doflamingo isn't defeated, rendering his actions before hand pointless.

You are simply making excuses because you don't want to admit that the manga isn't perfect.

 

[WhistleBlower]

Whoa guys , easy there with the essays XD

Anyways, looking forward to todays chapter

 

[Skylar Knight]

Zoro believes in his captain is such a convincing statement to use. I know Zoro believes in his captain and all. I am well aware of how much he trusts in Luffy. But he's also the who understands that there is a limit to how much Luffy can do on his own. He didn't just stand there and do noting when they fought Oz. He fought along side Luffy, because he understands that Luffy can't do that alone despite having unquestionable faith in Luffy. He did the same against Kuzan and pacifista because he know that Luffy gets beaten or that Luffy is at a disadvantage.

Then start from

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and read the next two chapters, if you ever feel like it. Zoro and the rest of the Strawhat crew are just quietly watching as Luffy fights Gecko Moriah for a chapter and a half. "But Zoro was tired from his battle with Oars!" Yet he decided to take on Kuma all by himself. It's not like he couldn't put up a fight against Gecko Moriah, he just didn't. They all had little to no time left before the sun had risen and killed them on the spot. The crew believes in Luffy, simple as that. That's the kind of story One Piece is. I can't explain it better than that.

Luffy is wounded ,outnumbered and mismatched by opposite team so there no way in hell for Zoro to show no concern in such a situation yet he restrained himself from making any move. It's not a matter of whether I am satisfied or not. It's a matter of whether the given reason sounds logical or not. I am nothing more than a mere fan who reads the writers work for free. I have no possible right to even complain , as he can do whatever he wants with his own manga and all I can do is to accept it or quite the manga if I can't stand his work. I am merely pointing out the flaws in his work. Everything has a reason & Anyone can come up with a reason for every little thing. But that won't cut it out. The given reason should make some sense.

Zoro doesn't know that Luffy is hurt. Nor is Luffy outnumbered.

Again, what is it that doesn't make sense to you? Zoro believes in Luffy, and doesn't want to involve himself in his captain's fights. It was the same thing on Punk Hazard. "Oh, Luffy's gonna fight a guy with 300,000,000 in bounty? Let's go save the children with Nami!" There was also the time when he let Luffy fight Crocodile all by himself. "Luffy's gonna fight a Shichibukai with 81,000,000 in bounty for the first time ever? Better stay on this crab and keep an eye on Usopp or something, I don't know."

Oda has always been restraining people from getting in Luffy's way in a way or another in order to shine Luffy's character. Luffy is the main character, he should be the one to beat the main villain. So he's doing whatever it takes to make him fight main villain. There is nothing wrong with it. That's what he did when he restrained Zoro from getting involved in Luffy's battle with Lucci, Moriah and that's what he's currently doing. I don't even get why it's so hard to accept.

What..? This is literally what I've been saying all along. Even in my previous post, I was agreeing with you about how Oda's obviously making Luffy to be the hero. What I don't agree with, however, is that the way Oda's restraining characters doesn't make sense, which is what you seem to think.

You're such a great reader. I know how Pica feels about Riku as I can read it in manga so you don't have to explain things that happened in manga to me. But I appreciate your effort. As a being that can use brain, one should have appropriate reason to take an action or make a move. I can't go around and say 4*4= 1 because I feel like it. Can I? Will anyone accept it? It's not something someone with brain and ability to use reasoning would do. No one is asking for his reasons to go after Riku. I am asking you to tell me why he choose to go after him at such a time i.e. when he must stop anyone who tries to go after Joker. It's not like Riku is running away or that Riku will attack Joker if he's not killed on spot. He can kill him whenever he wants yet he choose to ignore his most important mission and went after Riku. Only possible explanation from writers point of view would be that he wants to separate Zoro and Luffy.

If you know how Pica feels, then why're you making such a big deal out of this? People do stupid sh*t when they're angry. Pica was angry. Pica didn't want there to be competition to the throne, so he attempted to get rid of Riku Dold III. Also, Pica is without a doubt the fastest character in Dressrosa at the moment. With his ability to travel through stone, he can move from one side of Dressrosa to the other in almost an instant. He could've easily killed Riku Dold III, then returned to Zoro before he had ever reached Doflamingo.

What is more annoying here is the fact that you're bringing this argument out of nowhere as I don't have any memory of saying that Fujitora knows Joker's condition or that he should help Luffy because Luffy is currently hopeless. What I am questioning is the point of Fujitora not going after his head in general. Nothing can stop him from attacking Joker. Fujitora already tried to investigate Doflamingo when he heard about his underworld nickname but was stopped because he lacks enough evidence to point his sword at Doflamingo. His highest priority from the beginning was the safety of civilians which is why he tried to stop SH's to go after Joker as they might end up destroying the city and hurting the civilians in the process. But now we have same guy helping them out and counting on them to take care of Joker. So it's not impossible for him to change his mind about taking care of him later and take action.

I thought you were talking about Fujitora in your previous post, not Zoro. My mistake. Still, again you're coming up with your own made up facts. Fujitora never once stated that the reason the Straw Hats and Law were the main target, was because they could end up destroying the city and whatnot. That is your own interpretation of it, but don't make it out as fact.

Fujitora got enough evidence to arrest Joker as soon as the dark side of the country was exposed. A Vice Admiral from marines and countless civilians are the direct witnesses. Joker started threatening people as soon as his actions were exposed. So Fijitora has every possible reason to go after Joker still he didn't which makes 0 sense. You may come up with a reason but it won't cut it out as it'll be nothing more than an excuse to cover his actions. I have already told you that Zoro, Viola, Riku,Law and everyone else has an appropriate or a semi appropriate reason to leave things up to Luffy. Fujitora on the other hand has 0 reason to rely on Luffy.

Then let me ask you this: Why didn't the Marines arrest Doflamingo after he attacked Smoker and the rest of G-5? There were witnesses. There was proof. The reason for that is because he's simply no ordinary Shichibukai. If they wanted to get rid of Doflamingo from the start, they could've easily dispatched all three Admirals and take care of him in days, or even hours. But they can't. Like Doflamingo himself stated, "I was inside the deepest of inner circles in the sacred Marijois, and therefore I know about a most important National Treasure. Its existence alone could shake the very core of this world. To them I was but a fugitive who possessed the worst trump card. Since they don't have the power to kill me, they became quite cooperative." The World Nobles would do anything to avoid a conflict with Doflamingo.

Also, did you notice how Smoker didn't seem to know about Doflamingo's past as a World Noble? This could possibly mean that Doflamingo's past is classified information. This also suggests that marines with the rank of Vice-Admiral and below don't know jack sh*t about any of this, which would explain why Vice-Admiral Bastille and Maynard want to arrest Doflamingo so badly, without knowing that they actually can't.

Kola was at palace where all the family members are present so of course going to such a place is a dangerous job. Sabo's faith is her is secondary. What is more important is the difficulty of the job. As the leader of their group he's supposed to take care of bigger concerns and let the weak go for small tasks. But what happened in reality is quite opposite. We're not going off topic. We are discussing about how Oda is bypassing the possibility of other characters confronting Joker for the sake of Luffy VS Joker. He did it in case of Sabo and that's why I am brining them here.

First of all, her name is Koala. Secondly, is there a page where Sabo orders her to go to the palace? Because, you see, I don't think there is. For all you know, she could've gone there on her own accord.

Whether if Fujitora's going to do it in future or not is irrelevant mate. He literally said that he'll eventually point his sword at him or any war lord for that matter. So just removing his title using politics is same as taking care of Joker? In what way does it even effect that guy? There are countless pirates who're not a shichibukai and still kicking in new world. Joker is no different. Besides he's a tenryuubito and has support form higher authority. Fujitora is well aware of those point so it's stupid to even think that he's implying that he''ll use politics to take care of Joker. So the fact that he's ready to point his sword at Joker remains unchanged. Once again you don't have to explain what happened in manga. I know that he's not planning to go after Joker and I am not complaining about it. I am merely pointing out the fact that he actually has no logical reason to restrain himself from going after Joker. There is a difference.

He never said he'd point his sword on Doflamingo or any of the other Shichibukai. There's nothing to interpret, he's literally saying right

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that, in some way or another, he'll make the total discarding of the Shichibukai system happen at the Reverie. The Reverie is a place for politics.

No one is complaining here. At least not me. What you're doing here is literally no different form what people that are complaining about stuff in manga are doing. It's just that you guys ended up in opposite sides. They're trying use every possible flaw to complain about the series. On the other hand you guys are coming up with every possible excuse to make the series look like perfect when it's not. You guys are simply refusing to accept the reality and coming up with illogical excuses to support your delusional believes. That's all I wanted to point out from the beginning. I am happy with what's happening in manga as I believe that it's the best possible way to handle things. Even if Oda made mistakes that I don't like then I won't complain as I am level headed enough to understand the fact that he's a human like me and is not a perfect being. At the same time I am not stupid enough to blindly support him using pointless excuses just because I like his manga despite understanding that his work has flaws in it.

Whatever makes you sleep at night. For all it's worth, I disagree with you. I don't see the flaws that you're trying to point out. Fujitora's decisions, Pika's decisions, Sabo and Koala's decisions-- I personally think they make perfect sense.

Whoa guys , easy there with the essays XD

Anyways, looking forward to todays chapter

I try, but I can't be the first one to back off. My ego can't handle that.