[Predictions] One Piece Manga Chapter 1044 Discussion and 1045 Predictions

[chopstickchakra]

Talking about reading comprehension while taking colloquialisms literally. Okay, let’s try this again.

This nigga thinks making up a mythos for the fantasy he created is a bad thing.

Le Shock another inaccurate take from you.

Making up a mythos for a fantasy story isn't a bad thing, establishing a system for over 1000 chapters to disregard it in order to give your MC a new super power(a power he arguably didn't even need to receive as we had all come to terms with Luffy's growth and ability to surpass the Yonko without the need of a mythological super fruit) is.

If you're gonna continue quoting me at least try and address the words I use and not the word narrative you want to argue.

 

[Caliburn]

They just told us Zoan fruits have their own will/ a mind of their own and they haven't been able to get the GGnM as if it's running away then Luffy eats it. How exactly is that not the fruit choosing him?

If the WG knew this whole time the GGnM might awaken to that and that's why they've been chasing it, to prevent anyone from awakening it, then why didn't they make a real effort to kill/capture him when he was weak enough to do so? Not after EL or ID or punching a CD but now a few minutes before it awakens.

Luffy didn't need to be Joyboy to find One Piece as Roger has shown us.

"It's just that this one in particular has a history with the WG and that their ideologies clash, not that it suddenly has some kind of elite status in the natural world independent from whatever ruling system is in place"
It's described as the most ridiculous power limited only by imagination and Luffy says now he feels like anything is possible, so now Luffy can literally do anything he can think of. How is that not some elite status in the natural world? Nika was also referred to as God of Liberation which would make him independant of ruling systems in place.

So Luffy can't be a child of prophecy because he still looks silly? Also, he's not really the same anymore, now he was the boy chosen by Joyboy to try and retrieve the mystery of Laugh Tale. Luffy wanted to be a pirate because of Shanks but iirc the first time he mentions being pirate king is after eating his fruit, knowing what we know now he could want that because of the will of his fruit.

And lastly his fruit in general is just too left field of a switch up. First off why does a "sun god" get rubber properties? Marco's phoenix getting fire makes sense as they come out of the fire. Sengoku becoming a Buddha statue makes sense because of Buddha statues. But rubber to a sun god is basically "just because the author says so"
Secondly, this is the only DF, especially mytho zoan, I can think of off top of my head that isn't based on something real. Phoenix's are a real myth. Yamato's is based on a real myth. There is no myth of a god Nika, closest I've found is the goddess of victory Nike but Nike doesn't have rubber properties. The change just doesn't feel rooted in the information we were given but rather feels like it goes against what we were told so far.

You're doing it again. Put down those glasses because you don't seem to realize that what you are saying is that Zoans apparently have two fruity legs that can run at lightning speed and have built-in radars to detect people by whom they want/don't want to be eaten or something.

If you follow the conversation of the Gorosei, it's rather apparent that they do not understand it themselves and tried to rationalize this situation. The fact remains that devil fruits are still surrounded by tons of mysteries and that even they don't really know much about them. This is a point of discussion that has been brought up several times during the series. I mean there are tons of 'basic' devil fruits that are still unidentified.

Tell me, how exactly did the devil fruit chose Luffy? It's safe to assume that the GGnM didn't awaken the last 8 centuries, but that it was uneaten all this time? That's a completely different matter. In the end it's still a fruit and we know that devil fruits reincarnate by possessing regular fruits. So, apparently the same fruit was able to deter the elements and predators for 800 years because it has a will? And what did it do exactly to make sure Luffy ate it? Heck, it even makes more sense that it was eaten several times, because each time the user dies, the fruit will disappear completely from the grid. If you approach it from that perspective, you could reason that whenever the WG was closing in on the GGnM, it decided to be eaten by someone else as a counter measure. I mean we know that WG was very close when Luffy ate the fruit. You then get a 'chosen one', but one that has a complete opposite connotation.

We still don't even know who or what Joyboy was. Is it a synonym for Nika? Was it the previous person who ate the GGnM? And what role does Joyboy have in the world? I mean it's not the only mythical Zoan. It's not even the only mythical HHnM, but apparently being a living buddha doesn't warrant being called a chosen one.

So he can literally do anything? Twitter me when he farts lightning, pisses magma and pukes solid gold. Sure, his abilities are nothing to scoff at, but he's awakened. Awakened fruits are supposed to be like that. Also, yeet that god into the ocean and he sinks to the bottom like any other hammer. And that's the exact point: it's still a devil fruit as any other as far as we're concerned.

And now you're complaining he isn't a chosen one or what? My point was that chosen ones tend to have universal powers. You know, like having a natural calamity, born from the source of all chakra, be sealed inside of you by your own father who firmly believed that his newborn son was going to save the world or the spirit of light that has been reincarnating for 10 000 years and allows you to use four elements. The contrast with Luffy is not small and that's exactly my point. GGnM, HHnM, Nika, Joyboy...it doesn't matter as Luffy is still the same Luffy. It doesn't change anything.

Luffy literally stabbed himself to show how much of a 'badass' pirate he is. It's borderline comical that you're trying to justify this by claiming that he only specifically mentioned that he wanted to be the Pirate King after he ate the fruit. Tell me, how often did you think prior to this chapter that Luffy's personality and dreams changed after he ate the GGnM? And apparently Luffy has been hypnotized from the beginning? Forget the whole 'Chosen One' stick, you just murdered his entire character. He might as well have been a zombie.

Off the top of your head. Really? That's your angle? You really want to talk about fruits that turn you into hammers, but in return you get a random ability? About mythical zoans of which only a handful have been introduced? About awakened fruits we know even less about? Yes, some correspond more with real life life physics and science than others, but in the end they are only limited to what Oda wants them to do and there really is no shortage of wacky devil fruits in OP. We were told he was rubber. He is still rubber.

Chapter was mediocre.

Was it required to change Luffys DF nature? Mix feelings about this one.

Kaido still in his drunk phase also doesn't make sense considering the fact that he became serious in last chapter when he announced he's gonna make everyone his slave again.

The whole Zoan Df has will of their own is meh writing. I don't think it was ever implied that Zoans choose their users.

I will rate this chapter as 2/5.



But why will Shanks do that after so many years lol.
And Gorosei would have figured that out after seeing Luffy in MF.

This whole thing that Gomu Gomu no mi has its own will with God's name and running away from WG doesn't makes sense considering the fact that they had that fruit in their possession for a brief time.

Because it wasn't and still isn't implied that Zoans choose their user. That's just an interpretation people gave it with the 'chosen one' mindset. Having a will doesn't equate to automatically having control over everything you do and that Zoans have a certain degree of conscience/will, has very well been implied a long time ago:

- So far only Zoans can be fed to inanimate objects. How is it that feeding a Zoan to a sword or bazooka, suddenly make it so that the object can transform into an animal with a certain degree of emotions and a conscience of their own?

- So far only Zoans were able to be artificially created, resulting in many grotesque hybrids that have whole animals sticking out of them that can act independently from the user.

- The Impel Down jailers. These have been an anomaly of some sorts ever since they were introduced. It was the first time I believe the concept of 'awakened' was mentioned and my initial interpretation was (and still is) that that meant the devil fruits itself became somewhat alive without being eaten. In particular because it doesn't really align with how awakened fruit users were portrayed afterwards. This would explain why they are stuck in the same form and look rather dimwitted as they simply lack the intelligence and control of a user. But this is just my personal interpretation and hasn't been verified by the manga.

 

[Skull Knight]

Because it wasn't and still isn't implied that Zoans choose their user. That's just an interpretation people gave it with the 'chosen one' mindset. Having a will doesn't equate to automatically having control over everything you do and that Zoans have a certain degree of conscience/will, has very well been implied a long time ago:

See Elders said Zoans have a will of their own and they are unable to recover Gomu Gomu no mi in every era. Correct.

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This itself signify that GGnM choose it's users (or) else one of the Cipher Pol or Shanks crew mate had eaten it before Luffy could even get a chance.

- So far only Zoans can be fed to inanimate objects. How is it that feeding a Zoan to a sword or bazooka, suddenly make it so that the object can transform into an animal with a certain degree of emotions and a conscience of their own?
- So far only Zoans were able to be artificially created, resulting in many grotesque hybrids that have whole animals sticking out of them that can act independently from the user.

Even Logias abilities have been incorporated in Pacifistas.

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I read somewhere that Vegapunk was doing experiments like this for decades.

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I don't think these experiments shows any proper signs of Zoan will(whatever that's is). Since most of these turned to be failed experiments. Same goes for Smiles.

- The Impel Down jailers. These have been an anomaly of some sorts ever since they were introduced. It was the first time I believe the concept of 'awakened' was mentioned and my initial interpretation was (and still is) that that meant the devil fruits itself became somewhat alive without being eaten. In particular because it doesn't really align with how awakened fruit users were portrayed afterwards. This would explain why they are stuck in the same form and look rather dimwitted as they simply lack the intelligence and control of a user. But this is just my personal interpretation and hasn't been verified by the manga.

I remember Law said something like Ceasar was creating Base of DF which is an application of Bloodline elements discovered by Vegapunk.

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This bloodline elements is prolly telling us that Zoan df might attract to certain type of people which is most prolly the whole Zoan will thing in my opinion.

Another example could be kaidos DF in PH arc. There were so many guys who were offering food to Momo but he didn't ate any of that bcus of his pride but the moment he saw that DF he stole and ate it.

You must be registered to see images

This is all theory currently but after this chapter I do think that Zoans do choose there users based on some trait.

 

[chopstickchakra]

You're doing it again. Put down those glasses because you don't seem to realize that what you are saying is that Zoans apparently have two fruity legs that can run at lightning speed and have built-in radars to detect people by whom they want/don't want to be eaten or something.

If you follow the conversation of the Gorosei, it's rather apparent that they do not understand it themselves and tried to rationalize this situation. The fact remains that devil fruits are still surrounded by tons of mysteries and that even they don't really know much about them. This is a point of discussion that has been brought up several times during the series. I mean there are tons of 'basic' devil fruits that are still unidentified.

Why every time people use simile do people reply as if it's literal? I said it's "as if" they're running away. I never said anything about legs or movement speed that's you purposefully misrepresenting the argument in attempt to discredit the statement rather than refute it. The Gorosei themselves said it's as if the fruit is avoiding them, I reiterated that point.

And one thing that still doesn't make much sense, if they are hunting the "GGnM" so hard for so many centuries how come when an eater does come around they don't make a bigger effort to capture them? Even if they didn't know it would awaken to this(although it seems they had a good idea it would) they were still after that fruit. They've known Luffy has been the user of the "GGnM" for years now, if they had captured him they could have prevented it from awakening through his time as the user but they didn't until he was on the brink of awakening, it all just seems rushed.

Tell me, how exactly did the devil fruit chose Luffy? It's safe to assume that the GGnM didn't awaken the last 8 centuries, but that it was uneaten all this time? That's a completely different matter. In the end it's still a fruit and we know that devil fruits reincarnate by possessing regular fruits. So, apparently the same fruit was able to deter the elements and predators for 800 years because it has a will? And what did it do exactly to make sure Luffy ate it? Heck, it even makes more sense that it was eaten several times, because each time the user dies, the fruit will disappear completely from the grid. If you approach it from that perspective, you could reason that whenever the WG was closing in on the GGnM, it decided to be eaten by someone else as a counter measure. I mean we know that WG was very close when Luffy ate the fruit. You then get a 'chosen one', but one that has a complete opposite connotation.

Or maybe after Joyboy, if he ate it as seems to be since Luffy basically inherited his essence to the point Zunisha confused Luffy for him, the fruit respawned on Laugh Tale and wasn't seen again until Roger at which point they brought it back into world circulation, lost it at some point leading to Shanks retrieving it from WG. I mean do we think Shanks randomly robbed a WG ship and found this or did he look for it? Shanks hasn't exactly come off as the type to randomly attack Marine ships just in case there's a good prize on board.

As for how it chose Luffy as you said yourself we still don't know much so expecting an actual answer is already a fallacy and doesn't serve to disprove the possibility. Luffy has VOAT and Zoan apparently have a consciousness to them it could have easily called to him "eat me" Luffy wouldn't have thought twice about it.

We still don't even know who or what Joyboy was. Is it a synonym for Nika? Was it the previous person who ate the GGnM? And what role does Joyboy have in the world? I mean it's not the only mythical Zoan. It's not even the only mythical HHnM, but apparently being a living buddha doesn't warrant being called a chosen one.

No the buddha fruit wouldn't be a chosen one as the buddha fruit isn't connected to the endgame as the "GGnM" is, if it were it's eater would have been the chosen one but clearly the "GGnM" is the fruit needed to essentially "undo" the wrongs of the void so by default it's eater is the chosen one as they'll be the one to do that.

So he can literally do anything? Twitter me when he farts lightning, pisses magma and pukes solid gold. Sure, his abilities are nothing to scoff at, but he's awakened. Awakened fruits are supposed to be like that. Also, yeet that god into the ocean and he sinks to the bottom like any other hammer. And that's the exact point: it's still a devil fruit as any other as far as we're concerned.

Yes according to the description written by Oda it's only limited by the creativity of the eater so yes literally anything he can think of he can do and that would even include being able to float on water if he wanted to and thought about it. Now will we see a panel of him farting lightning or pissing magma as you so weirdly would like to see, probably not Oda's not as weird as you but if Luffy wanted to then he could.

And I know you'll say I'm just talking out of my ass when I say Luffy's awakened toon force would allow him to float(aka not drown, maybe not float maybe he can stand on it who knows what will happen) but let me take you back to the biggest plot hole in the manga; Luffy being thrown in the ocean by the bandit and saved by Shanks.

Luffy should have sunk like a "hammer" that day but what happened? Luffy tread water long enough for the bandit to be eaten, the sea king to target him and Shanks to save him, even assuming anime time 5-10 seconds?

And now you're complaining he isn't a chosen one or what? My point was that chosen ones tend to have universal powers. You know, like having a natural calamity, born from the source of all chakra, be sealed inside of you by your own father who firmly believed that his newborn son was going to save the world or the spirit of light that has been reincarnating for 10 000 years and allows you to use four elements. The contrast with Luffy is not small and that's exactly my point. GGnM, HHnM, Nika, Joyboy...it doesn't matter as Luffy is still the same Luffy. It doesn't change anything.

Questioning your reasoning behind a statement is complaining he isn't a chosen one? ok.

Luffy literally stabbed himself to show how much of a 'badass' pirate he is. It's borderline comical that you're trying to justify this by claiming that he only specifically mentioned that he wanted to be the Pirate King after he ate the fruit. Tell me, how often did you think prior to this chapter that Luffy's personality and dreams changed after he ate the GGnM? And apparently Luffy has been hypnotized from the beginning? Forget the whole 'Chosen One' stick, you just murdered his entire character. He might as well have been a zombie.

None because prior to now we had no reason to think the fruit had a consciousness to it and that's the point IF Luffy is inheriting this will from this fruit then the adventure we thought was his alone wasn't really his alone. Whether he's inheriting that will or not is still in the air, I feel like that's where the story is going, you don't but it seems we both agree IF that is where it goes it's not great.

Off the top of your head. Really? That's your angle? You really want to talk about fruits that turn you into hammers, but in return you get a random ability? About mythical zoans of which only a handful have been introduced? About awakened fruits we know even less about? Yes, some correspond more with real life life physics and science than others, but in the end they are only limited to what Oda wants them to do and there really is no shortage of wacky devil fruits in OP. We were told he was rubber. He is still rubber.

No not some, ALL examples we have so far. Every mythological zoan has been a based on a real world myth, Oda could have introduced one based on a completely original myth before now but he didn't. That's why doing it now, for the MC, and connecting it back to a person who was prophecized to return in the exact time frame as the fruit is awakening makes it feel too much like our MC is now the conduit for a prophecy rather than the catalyst of his own adventure.

Yes I understand Luffy may have took this adventure because "he wanted to" (a concept I don't believe is a definite anymore) but now his want was still part of fulfilling this Joyboy's return prophecy. Personally I would have preferred if the Joyboy reincarnation story had been someone who worked along side Luffy to achieve the end game rather than through Luffy as seems to be the case presently.

Because it wasn't and still isn't implied that Zoans choose their user. That's just an interpretation people gave it with the 'chosen one' mindset. Having a will doesn't equate to automatically having control over everything you do and that Zoans have a certain degree of conscience/will, has very well been implied a long time ago:

- So far only Zoans can be fed to inanimate objects. How is it that feeding a Zoan to a sword or bazooka, suddenly make it so that the object can transform into an animal with a certain degree of emotions and a conscience of their own?

- So far only Zoans were able to be artificially created, resulting in many grotesque hybrids that have whole animals sticking out of them that can act independently from the user.

- The Impel Down jailers. These have been an anomaly of some sorts ever since they were introduced. It was the first time I believe the concept of 'awakened' was mentioned and my initial interpretation was (and still is) that that meant the devil fruits itself became somewhat alive without being eaten. In particular because it doesn't really align with how awakened fruit users were portrayed afterwards. This would explain why they are stuck in the same form and look rather dimwitted as they simply lack the intelligence and control of a user. But this is just my personal interpretation and hasn't been verified by the manga.

 

[cryhwks]

I never asked why Nika was the sun god, what part of that post are you even replying to?

The sun being equated to freedom doesn't address why a sun/freedom god has rubber properties. It doesn't explain why this is the only DF so far with no real world correlation.

Post automatically merged: Mar 27, 2022

You don't think they know the power of the man who rampaged in Enies Loby, invaded Impel Down and fought at Marine Ford before Shanks' meeting? Do the Marines not relay any information up to them?

Post automatically merged: Mar 27, 2022

Zunisha said Luffy IS Joyboy though so unless that's a mistranslation then it is like Naruto or Sasuke being a sage son.

Gon doesn't have a spirit in him like mostly every other and before now Luffy was in that list too.

No one's saying Luffy didn't still work hard but it the idea of working hard and coming out on top with a mediocre fruit is infinitely more rewarding then working hard to unlock a miracle fruit that can do anything the user can think of.

But Joy Boy is obviously a title or nickname. Is the 4th Hokage the reincarnation of the 3rd Hokage? No, because "Hokage" is a title.

Kaido "He couldn't become Joy Boy either." If you are a reincarnation of someone, you either are them or not. There is no becoming. The way Kaido speaks it's something you achieve, another way of saying "title"

Post automatically merged: Mar 31, 2022

See Elders said Zoans have a will of their own and they are unable to recover Gomu Gomu no mi in every era. Correct.

You must be registered to see images

This itself signify that GGnM choose it's users (or) else one of the Cipher Pol or Shanks crew mate had eaten it before Luffy could even get a chance.



Even Logias abilities have been incorporated in Pacifistas.

You must be registered to see images

I read somewhere that Vegapunk was doing experiments like this for decades.

You must be registered to see images

I don't think these experiments shows any proper signs of Zoan will(whatever that's is). Since most of these turned to be failed experiments. Same goes for Smiles.



I remember Law said something like Ceasar was creating Base of DF which is an application of Bloodline elements discovered by Vegapunk.

You must be registered to see images

This bloodline elements is prolly telling us that Zoan df might attract to certain type of people which is most prolly the whole Zoan will thing in my opinion.

Another example could be kaidos DF in PH arc. There were so many guys who were offering food to Momo but he didn't ate any of that bcus of his pride but the moment he saw that DF he stole and ate it.

You must be registered to see images

This is all theory currently but after this chapter I do think that Zoans do choose there users based on some trait.

The one thing about the Pacifista's and why DF's other than Zoan can be added to them, is they are likely all Cyborgs. Meaning they have enough of a living being to have any DF. While objects like a Canon have no being, so they exclusively can "eat" Zoans.

And also the Pacifista's using Kizaru's power, is likely just a Lazer beam Vegapunk developed studying Kizaru. Franky's Radical Beam is pretty close to it.

 

[chopstickchakra]

But Joy Boy is obviously a title or nickname. Is the 4th Hokage the reincarnation of the 3rd Hokage? No, because "Hokage" is a title.

Kaido "He couldn't become Joy Boy either." If you are a reincarnation of someone, you either are them or not. There is no becoming. The way Kaido speaks it's something you achieve, another way of saying "title"

Post automatically merged: Mar 31, 2022

The one thing about the Pacifista's and why DF's other than Zoan can be added to them, is they are likely all Cyborgs. Meaning they have enough of a living being to have any DF. While objects like a Canon have no being, so they exclusively can "eat" Zoans.

And also the Pacifista's using Kizaru's power, is likely just a Lazer beam Vegapunk developed studying Kizaru. Franky's Radical Beam is pretty close to it.

If Joyboy is just a title why was the title never passed to anyone? Why would there be a prophecy of a title coming back? No, people expected Joyboy, or at least his will, to return and finish whatever he started with the Noah.

If there had been a joyboy mentioned before or after him you could make a case for a title but he's the only one we know of, it's nothing like the title of Hokage as it is now.

And even if it's a nickname for the previous user of the "GGnM" the implication right now is that the will/essence of Joyboy is returning to the world after 800 years as foretold by the prophecy via Luffy awakening his fruit which in essence is making Luffy a conduit to channel the will of Joyboy in order to fulfill his promises from back then.
That's my biggest issue, now it feels a bit as if Luffy is a tool to achieve Joyboy's dreams from the past.

 

[cryhwks]

If Joyboy is just a title why was the title never passed to anyone? Why would there be a prophecy of a title coming back? No, people expected Joyboy, or at least his will, to return and finish whatever he started with the Noah.

If there had been a joyboy mentioned before or after him you could make a case for a title but he's the only one we know of, it's nothing like the title of Hokage as it is now.

And even if it's a nickname for the previous user of the "GGnM" the implication right now is that the will/essence of Joyboy is returning to the world after 800 years as foretold by the prophecy via Luffy awakening his fruit which in essence is making Luffy a conduit to channel the will of Joyboy in order to fulfill his promises from back then.
That's my biggest issue, now it feels a bit as if Luffy is a tool to achieve Joyboy's dreams from the past.

I already answered your question, because it's something achieved, not given or passed on. And achieving Joy Boy doesn't mean anything either, because the original Joy Boy failed. He lost to the 20 Kingdoms.

They way I've seen it is, the OG Joy Boy was to late to save the day, Roger was to early, and Luffy will make it on time.

But this debate is pointless, because no one is ever going to convince you that this is good. And your never going to convince anyone it's bad. So we're just arguing for arguing sake. And I grow tired of it.