Not all Battles determine who is stronger

[Uzumaki Sasuke]

I wanna get this off my chest. If Deidara defeats Gaara and Gaara defeats Sasori it doesn't mean that Sasori is weaker than Deidara. Just because Itachi's genjutsu is the perfect match for Nagato doesn't mean Itachi is stronger than Naruto and Bee together whom Nagato defeated.

I've used this examples to stop those who say 'Itachi will defeat Nagato so he is stronger than Naruto and Bee together'. this is a very ridiculous statement. Deidara and Sasori are at the same level for me. But where they fight also depends who wud win. If they fought where Deidara fought Sasuke then Deidara would most definitely win but if they fought where Sasori fought Sakura and Chiyo Sasori wud win.

Just because Mei Terumi defeat Sasuke IN A COMPLETELY SEALED ROOM doesn't mean she is stronger than him. What if they fought again in an OPEN FIELD? Sasuke wud definitely win(with MS only). If Gaara defeats someone in a desert it doesn't mean he is stronger than that person. The same said for Zabuza defeating someone in an ocean.

For a character 2 be said 2 be stronger than another character we have to take every single attribute 2 account and create a good situation and a scenario accordingly eg Kakuzu vs Naruto. Naruto outsmarted him and won fair and square. Kisame vs Guy(In Kumo). Kisame was weakened and didn't fight Guy with the best of his ability. He didn't even have Samehada.

Please I hope this thread has made u understand that when u want to rate 2 players against each other, don't base it on previous unfair fights but on a situation and venue that supports both characters evenly eg Mei vs Sasuke. A large room with about 6 windows would be a good scenario for both of them. Mei cud close the windows with Lava but Sasuke too wud not watch her. It would be an even fight.

 

[Punk Hazard]

even if someone is stronger, they can still lose. remember with neji and naruto, neji had naruto outclassed but because he was so arrogant and thought he won easily, naruto could attack. its all a matter of what just happens

 

[Kissabi]

its more about smarts and luck than power that i agree

 

[Uzumaki Sasuke]

even if someone is stronger, they can still lose. remember with neji and naruto, neji had naruto outclassed but because he was so arrogant and thought he won easily, naruto could attack. its all a matter of what just happens

Neji didn't lose bcos he was arrogant. No, he lost bcos Naruto was clever and tricked him(Kage Bunshin) and also bcos of Kyuubi's power.

 

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

I have to agree that the battle field makes a great difference. But being able choose or modify the battle field is one of the determining factors of whether a character is effectively strong or not. Unfair advantages obtained through terrain is a pivotal part of any military conflict. So, I disagree that these "unfair advantages" need to be removed from consideration when rating a character.

A real life example is Hannibal Barca. He almost always won because he was able to create these types of unfair advantages. In war, all is fair.

 

[Uzumaki Sasuke]

its more about smarts and luck than power that i agree

Yes it is more about smarts than power but sometimes no matter how smart you are you could still lose bcos the the power is overwhelming for you eg Shikamaru vs Sound Ninjas, Sasuke vs Orochimaru(Part 1). Shikamaru was out of chakra and LUCKY whereas Sasuke was simply outclassed.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Neji didn't lose bcos he was arrogant. No, he lost bcos Naruto was clever and tricked him(Kage Bunshin) and also bcos of Kyuubi's power.

neji thought the clone was naruto. instead of waiting till all was said and done, he turned his byakugan off. if he kept it on, he would have seen naruto coming

 

[Uzumaki Sasuke]

I have to agree that the battle field makes a great difference. But being able choose or modify the battle field is one of the determining factors of whether a character is effectively strong or not. Unfair advantages obtained through terrain is a pivotal part of any military conflict. So, I disagree that these "unfair advantages" need to be removed from consideration when rating a character.

A real life example is Hannibal Barca. He almost always won because he was able to create these types of unfair advantages. In war, all is fair.

I understand what u mean. But when I said 'unfair battles' I meant times when the shinobi is already dissabled or weakened. eg Kisame vs Guy, Orochimaru vs Sasuke(Part 2). Both Oro and Kisame were already weakened at the beginning of their battles.

 

[Uzumaki Sasuke]

neji thought the clone was naruto. instead of waiting till all was said and done, he turned his byakugan off. if he kept it on, he would have seen naruto coming

That is not arrogance, it's letting your guard down. Many shinobi have let their guard down in battles which lead to fatal consequences. And sometimes even if you can see an attack coming u can't actually do anything about it. Your eyes and body react at a different speed. Neji's body may not have been able to react quickly enough from Naruto's attack even if his Byakugan was on.

 

[NLee]

its more about smarts and luck than power that i agree

It has nothing to do with "luck". It has to do with the situation.

-Gaara defeated Kimimaro in a open area with TONS of sand. Obviously he had an adantage.
-Deidara defeated Gaara inside the Sand Village. Gaara was at a disadvantage trying to guard the village.

Every situation is unique and there are several things that factor into who has the better chance.

 

[psukkar]

I wanna get this off my chest. If Deidara defeats Gaara and Gaara defeats Sasori it doesn't mean that Sasori is weaker than Deidara. Just because Itachi's genjutsu is the perfect match for Nagato doesn't mean Itachi is stronger than Naruto and Bee together whom Nagato defeated.

I've used this examples to stop those who say 'Itachi will defeat Nagato so he is stronger than Naruto and Bee together'. this is a very ridiculous statement. Deidara and Sasori are at the same level for me. But where they fight also depends who wud win. If they fought where Deidara fought Sasuke then Deidara would most definitely win but if they fought where Sasori fought Sakura and Chiyo Sasori wud win.

Just because Mei Terumi defeat Sasuke IN A COMPLETELY SEALED ROOM doesn't mean she is stronger than him. What if they fought again in an OPEN FIELD? Sasuke wud definitely win(with MS only). If Gaara defeats someone in a desert it doesn't mean he is stronger than that person. The same said for Zabuza defeating someone in an ocean.

For a character 2 be said 2 be stronger than another character we have to take every single attribute 2 account and create a good situation and a scenario accordingly eg Kakuzu vs Naruto. Naruto outsmarted him and won fair and square. Kisame vs Guy(In Kumo). Kisame was weakened and didn't fight Guy with the best of his ability. He didn't even have Samehada.

Please I hope this thread has made u understand that when u want to rate 2 players against each other, don't base it on previous unfair fights but on a situation and venue that supports both characters evenly eg Mei vs Sasuke. A large room with about 6 windows would be a good scenario for both of them. Mei cud close the windows with Lava but Sasuke too wud not watch her. It would be an even fight.

Only thing i didnt like in that was the comment about kisame, he just stole everyones chakra before he fought gai. And whats samahada gona do against gai exactly? HE cant sborb his chakra kisame tried thar with his final attack

And by the way gai didnt have his nunchuks either.

And its nice some it mention this because it works both ways even for characters like minato, itachi, sasuke, naruto etc...

 

[BigTDogg220]

Matchups certainly make a difference for example no one would say Shikamaru is stronger than Naruto, but Shikamaru was likely one of the only people who could defeat Hidan. By pure strength Hidan was superior to Shikamaru, but since Shikamaru had a plan to deal with him he was the victor. If Chiyo and Sakura fought Deidara instead of Sasori, Naruto and Kakashi may have died. The two of them wouldn't know the details of Sasori or have the antidote to save themselves from poison. There are many other examples of this as well.

 

[Tsunade Senju]

Agreed, Like with Tsunade & Kabuto

 

[Uzumaki Sasuke]

Only thing i didnt like in that was the comment about kisame, he just stole everyones chakra before he fought gai. And whats samahada gona do against gai exactly? HE cant sborb his chakra kisame tried thar with his final attack

And by the way gai didnt have his nunchuks either.

And its nice some it mention this because it works both ways even for characters like minato, itachi, sasuke, naruto etc...

Kisame's attack against Guy at Kumo doesn't absorb chakra to himself, it absorbs chakra to the attack itself making it grow bigger. And we cud see in their second encounter(In the desert)that the Nunchaku didn't change anything for him since Kisame still had his way(b4 Guy went Gates). 30% Kisame with Samehada against Full Guy with Nunchaku and Kisame still wins. Kisame chakra was Humongous even b4 he acquired Samehada.

 

[Makz]

it's not aboutstrength, or luck, or brains
it's about affinity towards the opponent's abilities

 

[NLee]

Matchups certainly make a difference for example no one would say Shikamaru is stronger than Naruto, but Shikamaru was likely one of the only people who could defeat Hidan. By pure strength Hidan was superior to Shikamaru, but since Shikamaru had a plan to deal with him he was the victor. If Chiyo and Sakura fought Deidara instead of Sasori, Naruto and Kakashi may have died. The two of them wouldn't know the details of Sasori or have the antidote to save themselves from poison. There are many other examples of this as well.

Good examples

 

[-Liquid Cefka-]

intelligence wins every time.

 

[Mizukata]

ur right...
In every single batlle naruto or not,a fighter must take advantage of the weakness and strengths of bough of them.the ones that do that are the most sucessfull winners.but winning by smarts,tricks and cunning(im not talking about cheating)is as vaild as overpowering speed defense and offense.
Usualy most people look at a confontation as:
fighter A won against fighter B
fighter C lost against fighter B
thus fighter C will lose against fighter A
As a logic it seems right but the truth is No...
fighter C may not lose against fighter A,a fight is subjective the criteria to it is diferent than the first if fighter C can use better is own assets he can win

 

[ChrisWolf]

I wanna get this off my chest. If Deidara defeats Gaara and Gaara defeats Sasori it doesn't mean that Sasori is weaker than Deidara. Just because Itachi's genjutsu is the perfect match for Nagato doesn't mean Itachi is stronger than Naruto and Bee together whom Nagato defeated.

I've used this examples to stop those who say 'Itachi will defeat Nagato so he is stronger than Naruto and Bee together'. this is a very ridiculous statement. Deidara and Sasori are at the same level for me. But where they fight also depends who wud win. If they fought where Deidara fought Sasuke then Deidara would most definitely win but if they fought where Sasori fought Sakura and Chiyo Sasori wud win.

Just because Mei Terumi defeat Sasuke IN A COMPLETELY SEALED ROOM doesn't mean she is stronger than him. What if they fought again in an OPEN FIELD? Sasuke wud definitely win(with MS only). If Gaara defeats someone in a desert it doesn't mean he is stronger than that person. The same said for Zabuza defeating someone in an ocean.

For a character 2 be said 2 be stronger than another character we have to take every single attribute 2 account and create a good situation and a scenario accordingly eg Kakuzu vs Naruto. Naruto outsmarted him and won fair and square. Kisame vs Guy(In Kumo). Kisame was weakened and didn't fight Guy with the best of his ability. He didn't even have Samehada.

Please I hope this thread has made u understand that when u want to rate 2 players against each other, don't base it on previous unfair fights but on a situation and venue that supports both characters evenly eg Mei vs Sasuke. A large room with about 6 windows would be a good scenario for both of them. Mei cud close the windows with Lava but Sasuke too wud not watch her. It would be an even fight.

I completely agree, although I do think you can accurately predict who would win in a fight based on comparing their fighting styles and techniques

 

[Uzumaki Sasuke]

I completely agree, although I do think you can accurately predict who would win in a fight based on comparing their fighting styles and techniques

Yeah that too