normal muslims also hate radicals (proof)

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Natsu Shazneel

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According to history books he was a war mongering pedophile. And he is the rolemodel of all muslims apparently.

Kingforever7 is right. Extremists are just interpreting all of Quran. Others just cherrypick while at the same time every muslim says that all of what Quran says is 100% true, so it's illogical and hypocritical to condemn radicals which your book, your religion made.

Why would you want proof for that when you don't even have proof for Allah, in which you believe in?
No that is your own biased thinking on what there interpreting is the right meaning. You have not even read the Quran nor do you know anything about it besides from numbers point of view. You are giving these extremists the identity they want. Good on you for helping there cause. Cause people like you will give them the opportunity to tarnish the name of this religion.
 

KingForever7

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How can you say that when you haven't even read the Quran nor understood its meaning? You just showed me a anti-Islamic site and told me to view those quotes. Can you really prove the prophet was a rapist?
Well, I just posted a site with (most likely/similarly) quotes from the Quran. So can you prove that the prophet wasn't a rapist ?

Furthermore, How is the site anti-Islamic ? From what I've read, it just states facts and it has nothing against Muslims as individuals.

If the quotes are wrong, then at-least debunk 10 of them.

(Also, I'm gonna assume that you're muslim right ? )
 

Natsu Shazneel

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Well, I just posted a site with (most likely/similarly) quotes from the Quran. So can you prove that the prophet wasn't a rapist ?

Furthermore, How is the site anti-Islamic ? From what I've read, it just states facts and it has nothing against Muslims as individuals.

If the quotes are wrong, then at-least debunk 10 of them.

(Also, I'm gonna assume that you're muslim right ? )
Like I already said I don't got time to debunk any of these quotes. This is completely off topic to the discussion we are having here. If you wanna learn you can do it on your own time. And if you really believe that these extremists are following the true Islam than that shows more about your character than mine. Giving labels to criminals that want to be known as a legitimate religion. Either way I am done here as this is going no where.
 

Ansatsuken

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True muslim care about peace.

We chose Jihad if we get attack by enemy/defending our country from attacker and not searching for enemy or killing mass public.

That's what Quran and Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) taught.
 
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Marin

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But yes most of the muslims disapprove suicide bombings. You saying I mention only half truths is irrelevant and a claim that the lady in the youtube video above owned.
Inaccurate/incomplete presentation of information in debates is irrelevant? gg wp

We are not talking about muslims who are good. We are talking about muslims who do bad. The good in this discussion are irrelevant.
Problem are people with these attitudes / people who act like terrorists --> they are muslims. Period.
A topic about wether "normal" muslims oppose radicals or not. That's all this thread is about. Learn how to read.

You don't seem to understand how probability statistics or surveys work. It's called a sample that represents the rest of the group.
So a few selected commoners represent the entire community while the official leaders don't? Right.

And you are wrong, they don't bring contradictive results as the margin with suicide bombing approvers was 20-40%. It would be contradicting if one would say 30% approve and another would say only 1% approve. But there's a clear pattern in all muslim countries.
According to an ICM Research poll in 2006, 20% of British Muslims felt sympathy with the July 7 terrorist bombers' "feelings and motives", although 99 per cent thought the bombers were wrong to carry out the attack.[24]

In another poll by NOP Research, almost one in four British Muslims believe that the 7/7 attacks on London were justified.[25]

You don't even know if the muslims in this video are normal muslims, so first and foremost labeling them as such is wrong
Those who oppose the radicals are naturally not radicals. Those who support the radicals are naturally radicals.

Normal muslims are the ones that oppose radicals as per the official stance of their religion.

I'm just saying that if 20-40% of them agree with terrorism in my country or in any other country in Europe, they all need to get out.
That's a given.

I don't think you should preach about common sense with the sky daddy syndrome.
It's a good thing I don't have it then.
 

Made in Heaven

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So the Quran doesn't have muhammed and his followers raping girls and killing infidels ?
I'm gonna post a link with quotes from the Quran. If all these quotes are wrong then show why.


Also, I've been thinking.....If Islam is a religion of peace, then shouldn't extremists be be extremely peaceful ? (by that logic)
The fact that you think he went around raping woman and killing non-muslims already shows beyond a shadow of a doubt you have absolutely no idea what this man was all about. No offense meant.

As for the link, I'm not an Islamic Scholar, doubt I ever will be, so asking me, or anyone here honestly, to answer the allegations against the verses presented in the link is something I can not do, as understanding the verses of the quran requires understanding it in it's original language and understanding the context of it in the Prophet's life.

However, I can at least answer some of the accusations to the verses presented.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."
This verse is literally telling you not to run away from your enemies when you face them in battle. It's self defense, for crying out loud. But what can I really expect from a hate site.

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."
Prophet Muhammad was confronting with the continuous persecutions from Meccans (who anti-islamists absolutly LOVE to paint as being pure, innocent people). But, as always, this verse should be taken in context of the Islamic Rules of War, which, is pretty much most of the following

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In other words, as ALWAYS, it is only meant to address those who are attacking/confronting Islam.

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
Continuing the surah...

"If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of God; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.How can there be a league, before God and His Apostle, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God doth love the righteous."

It goes without saying, but given your belief of what the Prophet supposedly did, I think it's worth mentioning this is during times of battle, and not just randomly walking down the street on a sunday afternoon.

What one needs to actually grasp is the nature of the land Prophet Muhammad lived in, his followers and him were under threats for virtually his entire life after Prophethood. And yes, this threat sometimes meant they had to take the offensive. Being soley on the defensive is naive and downright suicidal.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"
This verse is saying God will punish those who disbelieve in him. Pretty sure that's the same in Christianity. So the fact that this Christian site is trying pass of verses like this of the Quran as "violence" only further proves how stupid the people who run the site are.
Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"
What even is this? What?

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."
Again, what the heck is this? Where is the alleged violence in this verse?

I took a quick skim through the quoted hadiths, and I actually find it adorable how these people consider someone like Ibn Ishaq and other unauthenticated sources of hadith as sources of valid information. Won't even entertain what isn't even authentically part of the faith. There isn't much else to say when they are (I assume) deliberately quoting unauthentic hadiths.


Well, that's all I'm willing to do.
 

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The fact that you think he went around raping woman and killing non-muslims already shows beyond a shadow of a doubt you have absolutely no idea what this man was all about. No offense meant.
You didn't debunk the many quotes in that site where he's saying kill/punish the non-believers

As for the link, I'm not an Islamic Scholar, doubt I ever will be, so asking me, or anyone here honestly, to answer the allegations against the verses presented in the link is something I can not do, as understanding the verses of the quran requires understanding it in it's original language and understanding the context of it in the Prophet's life.
Most of the quotes in that site are not-contextualised and seems to call upon Muslims to advocate war with all non-believers.

This verse is literally telling you not to run away from your enemies when you face them in battle. It's self defense, for crying out loud. But what can I really expect from a hate site.
In response, I'll post a quote from the site

"fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The word used instead, "fitna", can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief."

Prophet Muhammad was confronting with the continuous persecutions from Meccans (who anti-islamists absolutly LOVE to paint as being pure, innocent people). But, as always, this verse should be taken in context of the Islamic Rules of War, which, is pretty much most of the following

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In other words, as ALWAYS, it is only meant to address those who are attacking/confronting Islam.
Post the Quranic quotes where Muhammed made those commandments (epecially the last one..."Don't enforce Islam")



Continuing the surah...

"If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of God; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.How can there be a league, before God and His Apostle, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God doth love the righteous."

It goes without saying, but given your belief of what the Prophet supposedly did, I think it's worth mentioning this is during times of battle, and not just randomly walking down the street on a sunday afternoon.

What one needs to actually grasp is the nature of the land Prophet Muhammad lived in, his followers and him were under threats for virtually his entire life after Prophethood. And yes, this threat sometimes meant they had to take the offensive. Being soley on the defensive is naive and downright suicidal.
Or perhaps its because Muhammed and his followers were the ones starting the wars



This verse is saying God will punish those who disbelieve in him. Pretty sure that's the same in Christianity. So the fact that this Christian site is trying pass of verses like this of the Quran as "violence" only further proves how stupid the people who run the site are.


This site has so much scriptual evidence. It makes it really hard to believe that Islam is a religion of peace.


What even is this? What?
It's a quote (apparently)



Again, what the heck is this? Where is the alleged violence in this verse?
Strenuousness - Act of Vigorous effect/ exertion.

Basically, Forcing their Islam ideology on Unbelievers. Obviously, forcing them to that effect will incur violence

I took a quick skim through the quoted hadiths, and I actually find it adorable how these people consider someone like Ibn Ishaq and other unauthenticated sources of hadith as sources of valid information. Won't even entertain what isn't even authentically part of the faith. There isn't much else to say when they are (I assume) deliberately quoting unauthentic hadiths.
Please, by all, means, find better translated quotes for all those ones on that site. :eww:
 
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Ansatsuken

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Do you really believe what this only site(TheReligionofPeace.Com) you're referring and get all the info is true and not misleading and bias or misinterpreted the true meaning?

I amaze by the shallowness of this so-called open and modern people mind like you. Why not searching for Muslim site for Quran and Hadith translations instead you're using non-muslim site for Quran words translation where who know how far they can understand the true meaning of Quran's arabic words.

one point for you.

Do you know that Jesus(Isa a.s) worshiped the same god as Muhammad (PBUH). The Bible as of now was not much the same bible that Isa received from God.

The God that love Isa's followers is the same God Muhammad's followers worshiped.
 
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KingForever7

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Do you really believe what this only site(TheReligionofPeace.Com) you're referring and get all the info is true and not misleading and bias or misinterpreted the true meaning?

I amaze by the shallowness of this so-called open and modern people mind like you. Why not searching for Muslim site for Quran and Hadith translations instead you're using non-muslim site for Quran words translation where who know how far they can understand the true meaning of Quran's arabic words.
Why is it not true ?

Why don't you show the translations (of these quotes) that you believe to be true if you want to show that Islam is a religion of peace.
 
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Hawker

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Why is it not true ?

Why don't you show the translations (of these quotes) that you believe to be true if you want to show that Islam is a religion of peace.
lol at people calling you out instead of debunking the claims. It's just a classic example of cognitive dissonance. They get knowledge layed out in front of them that contradicts their beliefs and then they try to downplay or dismiss them. They most certainly won't read them because "they don't have time" lol!
 
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Ansatsuken

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Why is it not true ?

Why don't you show the translations (of these quotes) that you believe to be true if you want to show that Islam is a religion of peace.
-Quran (2:191-193)-



You found many 'fight' words here but less kill words. Fight in Islam(Quran) doesnt mean all things must act/be done in/through violence/brutal force.


"Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors."

Like Fitnah for example. Its a words of mouth telling a lie on someone. There was no aggressiveness found in Fitnah bcus it was just a mouth words and Muslim need to counter Fitnah by proving it wrong not using brute force but soft act unless the person who throw the Fitnah threaten to kill or using an aggression.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.-

Muslims emphatically insist that the Jihad, or Holy War, was only a means of defence and was never used as an offensive act. This is underlined in the explanatory notes of the Sahih Muslim:


"Jihad in Islam is not an act of violence directed indiscriminately against the non-Muslims; it is the name given to an all-round struggle which a Muslim should launch against evil in whatever form or shape it appears. Fighting in the way of Allah is only one aspect of Jihad. Even this in Islam is not an act of mad brutality....It has MATERIAL and MORAL functions, i.e. self-preservation and the preservation of the moral order in the world." ("Sahih Muslim, III, page 938 - explanatory note).
"The sword has not been used recklessly by the Muslims; it has been wielded purely with humane feelings in the wider interest of humanity" (ibid. page 941 - also explanatory note).

The materialistic purpose.

Let us investigate how this claim is supported by the actual facts of history.

"Jihad is one of the chief meritorious acts in the eye of Islam -- and it is the best source of earnings, but it shall be undertaken with the intention of self-defence." "Mishkat" II, page 340 - explanatory note).
One could also call it robbery in self-defence, if there is such a thing.

"The Holy Quran strictly prohibited conversion by force, saying:
'There is no compulsion in religion' (Sura 2:256)" (ibid).
This is reasonable - though one would, perhaps, object to war as a means of income. This income, no doubt, is at the expense of someone's livelihood. But let us look at Muslim warfare in practice:

"When an infidel's country is conquered (in self-defence?) by a Muslim ruler, its inhabitants are offered three alternatives:
The reception of Islam, in which case the conquered became enfranchised citizens of the Muslim state;
The payment of a poll-tax (Jazyah) by which unbelievers in Islam obtained "protection" and become Zimmis, provided they were not idolaters (of Arabia);
Death by the sword to those who would not pay the poll-tax. ("Dictionary of Islam", page 243).
"....Kill those who join other gods with Allah wherever you find them; besiege them, seize them, lay in wait for them with every kind of ambush...."(Sura 9:5).

"When you encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads, until ye have made a great slaughter among them...."(Sura 47:4).

"....Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in Allah, or in the Last Day, and who forbid not what Allah and His Apostle have forbidden....until they pay tribute..." (Sura 9:29).

"Say to the infidels: If they desist, what is now past shall be forgiven them; but if they return, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it Allah's." (Sura 8:39).

"Proclaim a grievious penalty to those who reject faith." (Sura 9:3).

All of the above texts are contradicted by:

"There is no compulsion in religion".
From the Hadayah (II, page 140) we learn with regard to the Jihad, that:

"To whichever village you go and settle therein, there is your share therein, and whichever village disobeys Allah and His Messenger, its one-fifth is for Allah and His Messenger and the remainder is for you." ("Mishkat" II, page 412).
"In the actual war-field in the midst of hostilities, some concessions were sometimes given to soldiers for recreation. Captive virgin girls in war were once made lawful for the soldiers for copulation. "(ibid. page 440 and "Sahih Muslim" II, pages 705-707).

What is right today cannot be wrong tomorrow, otherwise we have an example of situational ethics.

To an objective observer the following picture emerges: interest in material gain was as important as the making of converts One cannot help feeling that the Holy War was a pretence to make booty and receive continuing taxes. This must have persuaded many a man to join the Holy War and thus to become a mercenary. This interest no doubt gave enormous political and military momentum to the cause of Mohammed. Each warrior had a right to the belongings of the man he had slain, and could sell for ransom any prisoner he had made. Women and children were also reckoned as booty and a Muslim saw no moral irregularity in taking married woman prisoners as concubines as long as they were not pregnant. He would also have his share of the combined booty, of which; however, one-fifth belonged to Mohammed (and in the case of no fight taking place, it belonged to him totally). We are aware, however, that Mohammed never lived an extravagant life or hoarded goods. On the contrary, he was most generous in every aspect, particularly to the poor, to orphans and to widows.

Taxes could be very harsh indeed as in the case of the defeated Jews who lived in Khaiber. They

"were allowed to stay in Khaiber on condition that they would pay half the produce of their lands to the Holy Prophet and in addition Jazyah tax". ("Mishkat" II, page 455, footnote).
"After the Battle of Badr, the verse dealing with the booties was first revealed. The verse introduced the rule for the first time that the spoils of war would be the property of the soldiers who actually take part in the battle...THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS why the soldiers of Islam fought tooth and nail. They would get Paradise in case of death in a Holy War, and booties in the case of CONQUEST. Jihad is therefore the best source of all acquisitions." ("Mishkat" II, page 406, explanatory note).

Jihad "is the best method of earning both spiritual and temporal. If victory is won, there is enormous booty and (sic) CONQUEST of a country, which cannot be equal to any other source of earnings." (ibid. page 253, explanatory note).

"In the battle of Muraisi with Banu Mustalig, the booties gained were nearly 200 camels and 5 000 goats. In the campaign of Hunain, the booties that fell to the hands of the Muslims were 24 000 sheep, 4 000 silver coins and innumerable camels. In the Battle of Badr and Uhud, the booties were also great." (ibid. page 406).

There is little wonder that a poem ascribed to Ali ibn Abi Talib, reads thus:

"Our flowers are the sword and the dagger:
Narcissus and myrtle are nought.
Our drink is the blood of our foeman;
Our goblet his skull, when we've fought."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."-

This verse references God’s wrath on the people who disbelieved in Jesus. The passage does not endorse Muslims to commit violence. Here, read the entire passage in its context,

3:55 [Mention] when God said, “O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to God alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ.
3:56 And as for those who disbelieved, I will punish them with a severe punishment in this world and the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers.”
3:57 But as for those who believed and did righteous deeds, He will give them in full their rewards, and God does not like the wrongdoers.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Quran 2:244 – ‘Fight In God’s Cause…’-

Here the explanation about this verse



I can gave you all the explanations for the verse you found in that 'website'. But as of now, I gave you some of it. I want to sleep.
 
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Itachi Minato

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Firstly you have your numbers wrong. I didn't say 49%. That's the number of muslims worldwide who approve of al-Qaeda.

Secondly I said 20-40 of muslims in Europe think that suicide bombings are justified. This is a cold hard fact. page 54

Thirdly, you can't refute the conclusions of worldwide statistical researches by based on 4-6 people you saw on some random video on youtube. That's a logical fallacy and just plain wrong.





Studies, researches and polls are different than media. But often media articles about these issues are based on those studies.



Lmao. Did you just really say that? All it is is an attempt to try to ignore and downplay the the actual attidues of hundreds of millions of people. Leaders condemns an act then that's a justifiable reason not to blame the culture?
Basically by your logic 100 million muslims do suicide bombings and when an islam official says it's wrong then it's all fine and dandy and there's no problem with the culture whatsoever. It's truly astoundishing how blatant the self deception of muslims is. Always in denial and finding ways to blame media or exremists.

There's no need for mind reading when the attitudes of many muslims are reflected in polls and researches year after year after year regardless of country.

















You guys are seeing it how you want to see it. You guys also have your numbers wrong and you make wrong conclusions about those numbers and what they actually mean. Blaming only radicals or media when for example the human right violations in islamic cultures and it's laws are common, and also commonly accepted in muslim communities.

Fact is that currently over 10 islamic countries have death penalty for apostasy. Homosexualy is illegal in all islamic countries and in atleast 10 countries it is punishable by death. The migrants come from these countries.
The laws of these countries are reflected in the attitudes of their people:

Another fact is that a big bart of muslims approve of those barbaric human rights violations. This again is a fact:
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Those views given from islamic state citizens, do not differ from the ones living in for example Britain, since according to ICM survey: 40% of it's muslims want sharia law in their country:



Yet another fact is that from time and time again, REGARDLESS of the country, polls and researches have shown that MANY, not all, not even most, but MANY muslims approve of suicide bombings, killin in the name of religion and radical groups:


ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified

Pew Research (2013): Only 57% of Muslims worldwide disapprove of al-Qaeda. Only 51% disapprove of the Taliban. 13% support both groups and 1 in 4 refuse to say.

Pew Research (2014): 47% of Bangladeshi Muslims says suicide bombings and violence are justified to "defend Islam". 1 in 4 believed the same in Tanzania and Egypt. 1 in 5 Muslims in the 'moderate' countries of Turkey and Malaysia.

Federation of Student Islamic Societies: About 1 in 5 Muslim students in Britain (18%) would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack.


Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.

35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).

42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).

22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).

29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).



Add all that to the fact that muslims in European countries do relatively more sexual and violent crimes than others. 4-20 times more than a native European. That's big problem right there also. And you dare to blame the media?


I've said this a million times, but you guys just don't want to see the problems, either unconciously or conciously (cognitive dissonanse).
So based on numerous neutral sources, researches and studies the approval of an oppressive, violent and discriminating sharia law, justifying suicide bombings and killing civilians and approving of al-Gaeda all are opinions that 20-40% of the muslim population shares. It's been proven that these people form a big part of muslims regardless of country.
20-40% out of all muslims is 320 to 640 million people. You don't think this is the problem? The silent approval of the problems that extremist bring into light isn't a problem?
All these polls you bring up and yet not me or one of my friends have ever been part of such a poll. Please enlighten me where these polls take place.
 

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-Quran (2:191-193)-



You found many 'fight' words here but less kill words. Fight in Islam(Quran) doesnt mean all things must act/be done in/through violence/brutal force.


"Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors."

Like Fitnah for example. Its a words of mouth telling a lie on someone. There was no aggressiveness found in Fitnah bcus it was just a mouth words and Muslim need to counter Fitnah by proving it wrong not using brute force but soft act unless the person who throw the Fitnah threaten to kill or using an aggression.
"Fitnah". lol, where the hell did your definition of "telling a lie" come from ? Multiple sources including google, wiki, and the site I used all have the same similar definition - [Trial/Test of disbelievers]/ [disbelief/Unrest and worshipping of others along with Allah]

Also, many fight words or Kill words.... or whatever. It's still a notion of exerting their beliefs on Non-believers into submission. You personally wouldn't interpret those words as violent but others (such as extremist radicals) would take it literally. And that's simply because these books uses these "fight"/"kill" words.

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-Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.-

Muslims emphatically insist that the Jihad, or Holy War, was only a means of defence and was never used as an offensive act. This is underlined in the explanatory notes of the Sahih Muslim:
Jihad being used a self-defence by Muhammed and his followers has been said to be a Historical myth.
Apparently debunked by this



Honestly, I got tired from requoting the others, but from what I see is that these scriptures from these Islamic Holy books seem to contradict each often....which is probably why theirs a dichotomy of peaceful muslims and violent extremists

This page covers all the myths about Muhammed (supported by scripture and Historical context).


Ultimately, the conclusion to this argument is that normal, peaceful muslims have interpreted Islam into their own liking while Extremists have taken everything in Islam into their Ideology.
 
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RasenUchihaChaos

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Know what's scary I'm not a terrorist or a Muslim but when I see these attacks on the news I scoff

There are plenty of places I have noted through my travels that are really vulnerable and would cause way more chaos and misery if attacked than all the places Isis and any other group have done

One such place two Americans white btw have already done
 

Made in Heaven

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You didn't debunk the many quotes in that site where he's saying kill/punish the non-believers
Unlike many other people, I don't go around claiming I know something when I don't and off hand, I'm not aware what context those verses are in, so I cannot answer.
Most of the quotes in that site are not-contextualised and seems to call upon Muslims to advocate war with all non-believers.
Again, you're using an anti-Islamic site, what did you expect? Please be reasonable here.


In response, I'll post a quote from the site

"fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The word used instead, "fitna", can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief."
Context is key. The war was never actually planned, hence why the Muslims were barely dressed and prepared for war. The original plan was to simply take back the belongings of the Muslims that the Idol worshipers had taken/seized, but ended up being blown into an all out battle.

Post the Quranic quotes where Muhammed made those commandments (epecially the last one..."Don't enforce Islam")
(Qur'an 109:1-6)Say: O disbelievers! I worship not that which ye worship; Nor worship ye that which I worship. And I shall not worship that which ye worship. Nor will ye worship that which I worship. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

We cool know?

As for the other things...




Or perhaps its because Muhammed and his followers were the ones starting the wars

Well, you'd be wrong on that assumption, especially given that you more likely than not haven't even studied Prophet Muhammad's life, and before you start asking me, again, I'm no scholar, so I haven't studied the minor details of his life, just the broad picture for the most part, so don't go asking me to explain everything. If you genuinly want an explanation and aren't just arguing to prove a point, then go to research on an actual islamic site please




This site has so much scriptual evidence. It makes it really hard to believe that Islam is a religion of peace.
Okay, but, again for the billionth time, it's a hate site that uses people like Ibn Ishaq as their sources of information. Not only that, but I can assure you these people don't even know Ancient Arabic (which is different than Modern Arabic and Informal Arabic)

I highly doubt they understand anything about his life either, given that they claim in the link you gave things such as he allowed lying, which isn't true at all. The truth is that a Muslim is only allowed to tell white lies, and this is ONLY if it means saving his or her life or the lives of others. In other words, lying can never be done, and white lies only if it means one's life is on the line.

The link you sent also claims he beheaded 800 jews. Off the bat, the the number isn't even authentic, again showing the lack authenticity of that BS site. Moreover, those were people who had attempted and did betray the Muslims they ahd earlier made a treaty with. It's pretty long, so here's a link to explain it. For the record, you should also know that the Prophet Muhammad judged them based off of the treaty they had made together as well as the laws of the Jews themselves.

Last one of those atrocious claims I will explain is the claim that he "died fat and wealthy due to the things he'd stolen in wars". Is this supposed to be a joke? Like, for real, what is this? The Prophet died with only a small handful of silver coins in his possession. This is the same man who would go days without eating, who would offer his food to others even when he was hungry, who slept on a pathetic excuse of a bed, who would never EVER refuse to give someone something they requested from him. All despite being the leader of his people. And this site has the audacity to claim he died fat and wealthy?

If you dare use this site again to back up your already awful claims, I won't be arguing back.


Strenuousness - Act of Vigorous effect/ exertion.

Basically, Forcing their Islam ideology on Unbelievers. Obviously, forcing them to that effect will incur violence
Already showed you a Surah showing that forcing Islam upon others isn't true.

Please, by all, means, find better translated quotes for all those ones on that site. :eww:
Look it up yourself please. No offense to you personally, but I've gotten sick of arguing with you, given the source you're using to advocate your arguments.
 
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Hawker

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Ugh. You are annoying. You just don't try to understand or is it you don't want to? You just want to force your thoughts on others. Islam is religion of Peace.
If you don't believe me then:



You can't deny what this guy says. Please don't ever again say that islam is a religion of peace.

Some points:

-Killing people for apostasy
-Killing people for homosexuality
-Stonin women to death for adultery and for being rape victims

...is NOT peaceful.
 
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Reraru

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If you don't believe me then:



You can't deny what this guy says. Please don't ever again say that islam is a religion of peace.

Some points:

-Killing people for apostasy
-Killing people for homosexuality
-Stonin women to death for adultery and for being rape victims

...is NOT peaceful.
Are you dumb? Everything aside but no women is killed for being a rape victim. And also every country has rules and so does a religion.

We are supposed to follow a countries rules right? Same goes for religion. It is up to you what you believe or not. I am done here.
 

DominiqueX

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Are you dumb? Everything aside but no women is killed for being a rape victim. And also every country has rules and so does a religion.

We are supposed to follow a countries rules right? Same goes for religion. It is up to you what you believe or not. I am done here.
@bold and underlined
Wowowowow... So you justify killing people for apostasy, adultery and homosexuality?
 
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