Ninja Wise: Tobirama > Minato.

[Reborn]

Id say they are around equal, though tobirama tips him for me, for the 3rd strongest hoakge, behind hashirama and sarutobi respectively. Tobirama at full power would be a very annoying opponent. Edo tensei ninja's are very annoying, because they cannot die. S/t users are also annoying. Having both these technique's under your belt makes for a very annoying opponent. By hype he also belongs in an elite group of ninja''s with mastery of the 3 forms of ninja art. However minato is a master sealer and that is exactly what is needed for edo tensei zombies. He also seems to have knowledge on tobirama's s/t abilities, whilst tobirama has none on him

And what, pray tell, puts Hiruzen on the list above Tobirama? Though Tobirama is my favorite character I really do find it pointless to attempt to compare to characters of a higher calibur and indefinately say he's a better shinobi. For one we have limited screen time of him actually fighting and what we do have on him is dwarfed by the abilities he's been given since them making that little bit of time outdated and obsolete information. Secondly the vagueness of the higher teir abilities he's been stated to have had in his lifetime gives an unstable foundation for his abilities. What I mean is, they're not detalied or perticular enough to give us clarity on how such abilities could be used in combat.

For example: Edo Tensai, his creation which we see now at it's absolute highst point thus far. When first introduced we didn't know it was Tobirama's technique but when we found out, it was said Orochimaru had bettered the technique and Kabuto even more so as well as to go to say that Tobirama's Edo Tensai was incomplete. However upon later discussion by the former Kage of Tobirama's generation and past it as well, they recognized this technique. So we have some middle ground which says: Yes Tobirama had Edo Tensai to a point where it was usable otherwise foreign Kage wouldn't be commenting on the techniques as if it hadn't been used to some degree to give it a worldly recognized name.

Then we have his S/T jutsu which poped up out of thin air from Minato's mouth during his fight with Tobi. Now what Minato said was a comparison between the three ST techniques of himself, Tobirama, and Tobi. He mentioned that Tobi's technique was better than his and Tobirama's technique. That was the only thing mentiond. Nothing specific as to the make up of the technique itself only the wide range of ability. That being said we don't know if his technique was similar to Minato's FTG, Tobi's Migration/Kamui, hell or even the Summoning Jutsu for that matter. From those words we only know that Tobirama's ST abilities can either be:

Tobi>Minato=Tobirama
or
Tobi>Minato>Tobirama

If it was equal or less than Minato's we still don't know how it manipulates space and time like the others.




Now I apolgize for my long winded response to this but here's what I'm saying in a nutshell. We can't fairly assess how Tobirama fights or the true make up/capabilities of his techniques past his Water Techs really. Doing so it a lot of assumption. There's nothing wrong with these assumptions...unless they get overused and tired, as they have. Though he's not a main character, since his Edo Tensai is a center focuse he gets pulled into a lot of conversation and there is nothing really new being outlined in these discussions about Tobirama.

Oh and people need to give up the Hiruzen thing since there's nothing to suggest the level people hold him to other rumors and the word of Kishi which has been contradicted. To be quite honest the rumors don't even appeal anymore. Without substance it's all empty words. "God of Shinobi" where is the substance. At least with the Sage we know he defeated a being that was said to have created Narutovers essentially and was the founder of Ninjutsu and divided the most powerful beast in existance into nine parts with his ability to creat anything. That's god worthy, where's Hiruzen's? Professor is the only one I'd really give him credit for since he has shown a wide knowledge of techniques. Though most of Hiruzen is hype. Kishi has said stuff that has been contradicted before, plot holes, mistakes. So what's not to say Hiruzen wasn't one of those? There's certianly contextual evidence to support it.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

We really can't say

 

[KingHashirama]

So basically, you've simply listed their jutsu and concluded that 'Ninja Wise: Tobirama > Minato'?

hm.. did I??

I focused on all 3 categories of the ninjas. (I didn't mention Genjutsu).

But Taijutsu and Ninjutsu = Tobirama. Just something that has been proven.

Now it is up to you if you have a problem with this thread or w.e.

But, this is for who like Tobirama. Saying , "he is all hype".. is not proving your claim.

I did this from the Data we have on Tobirama. Not some stuff I just picked up.

You know, for someone who only reads the manga, that shit about databooks is getting really old.

Want to know what I know of Tobirama?

- Water style master

- Fuzzy armor.

That's it. I don't even know what kind of personality he had because he just had a few lines.

His personality is determined through that liltle time he had. And which showed him being a brave and a smart guy.

You didn't know he used Edo tensei?? or he was a amazing Sensor ninja?

 

[SilverSlick]

And what, pray tell, puts Hiruzen on the list above Tobirama? Though Tobirama is my favorite character I really do find it pointless to attempt to compare to characters of a higher calibur and indefinately say he's a better shinobi. For one we have limited screen time of him actually fighting and what we do have on him is dwarfed by the abilities he's been given since them making that little bit of time outdated and obsolete information. Secondly the vagueness of the higher teir abilities he's been stated to have had in his lifetime gives an unstable foundation for his abilities. What I mean is, they're not detalied or perticular enough to give us clarity on how such abilities could be used in combat.

For example: Edo Tensai, his creation which we see now at it's absolute highst point thus far. When first introduced we didn't know it was Tobirama's technique but when we found out, it was said Orochimaru had bettered the technique and Kabuto even more so as well as to go to say that Tobirama's Edo Tensai was incomplete. However upon later discussion by the former Kage of Tobirama's generation and past it as well, they recognized this technique. So we have some middle ground which says: Yes Tobirama had Edo Tensai to a point where it was usable otherwise foreign Kage wouldn't be commenting on the techniques as if it hadn't been used to some degree to give it a worldly recognized name.

Then we have his S/T jutsu which poped up out of thin air from Minato's mouth during his fight with Tobi. Now what Minato said was a comparison between the three ST techniques of himself, Tobirama, and Tobi. He mentioned that Tobi's technique was better than his and Tobirama's technique. That was the only thing mentiond. Nothing specific as to the make up of the technique itself only the wide range of ability. That being said we don't know if his technique was similar to Minato's FTG, Tobi's Migration/Kamui, hell or even the Summoning Jutsu for that matter. From those words we only know that Tobirama's ST abilities can either be:

Tobi>Minato=Tobirama
or
Tobi>Minato>Tobirama

If it was equal or less than Minato's we still don't know how it manipulates space and time like the others.




Now I apolgize for my long winded response to this but here's what I'm saying in a nutshell. We can't fairly assess how Tobirama fights or the true make up/capabilities of his techniques past his Water Techs really. Doing so it a lot of assumption. There's nothing wrong with these assumptions...unless they get overused and tired, as they have. Though he's not a main character, since his Edo Tensai is a center focuse he gets pulled into a lot of conversation and there is nothing really new being outlined in these discussions about Tobirama.

Oh and people need to give up the Hiruzen thing since there's nothing to suggest the level people hold him to other rumors and the word of Kishi which has been contradicted. To be quite honest the rumors don't even appeal anymore. Without substance it's all empty words. "God of Shinobi" where is the substance. At least with the Sage we know he defeated a being that was said to have created Narutovers essentially and was the founder of Ninjutsu and divided the most powerful beast in existance into nine parts with his ability to creat anything. That's god worthy, where's Hiruzen's? Professor is the only one I'd really give him credit for since he has shown a wide knowledge of techniques. Though most of Hiruzen is hype. Kishi has said stuff that has been contradicted before, plot holes, mistakes. So what's not to say Hiruzen wasn't one of those? There's certianly contextual evidence to support it.

Thank you. I honestly believe Tobirama=Minato but creating threads when Tobirama has no feats or hype isn't helping his cause. We simply have to wait for Kishi to explain his techniques. Then we can properly analyze him.

 

[KingHashirama]

Thank you. I honestly believe Tobirama=Minato but creating threads when Tobirama has no feats or hype isn't helping his cause. We simply have to wait for Kishi to explain his techniques. Then we can properly analyze him.

Good luck buddy. I'm sure Kishi will show the Hokage that doesn't need to be shown.

Or atleast has no need to be shown. We know his jutsus and what he was good in. And this isn't a battle thread..

 

[Gold Lightning]

Minato is severely underrated at NB that is so unbelievable, the guy saved his son and village from the main antagonist of the series and stopped the strongest tailed beast from destroying his village. Tobi is probably the most difficult opponent anyone can face and minato beat him in a couple minutes without even getting injured.

He's also been praised throughout the entire series by various different characters. He was complimented by Hiruzen, Jiraya, Kakashi, Tsunade, Tobi, A, Killer Bee etc. These are not fodder ninja's by any means. Kishimoto killed him off for a reason, he was unbeatable from what I've seen. Yet people make dumb threads like these comparing him to people we know nothing about.

 

[KingHashirama]

Minato is severely underrated at NB that is so unbelievable, the guy saved his son and village from the main antagonist of the series and stopped the strongest tailed beast from destroying his village. Tobi is probably the most difficult opponent anyone can face and minato beat him in a couple minutes without even getting injured.

He's also been praised throughout the entire series by various different characters. He was complimented by Hiruzen, Jiraya, Kakashi, Tsunade, Tobi, A, Killer Bee etc. These are not fodder ninja's by any means. Kishimoto killed him off for a reason, he was unbeatable from what I've seen. Yet people make dumb threads like these comparing him to people we know nothing about.

. We don't know NOTHING about Tobirama?? And dude.. this is about Tobirama being a better ninja... not who wins in a fight.

Tobirama has more on him then Minato. And don't even say we don't know about Tobirama's abilities. This is a analysis from what we know about Tobirama.

 

[SilverSlick]

Minato is severely underrated at NB that is so unbelievable, the guy saved his son and village from the main antagonist of the series and stopped the strongest tailed beast from destroying his village. Tobi is probably the most difficult opponent anyone can face and minato beat him in a couple minutes without even getting injured.

He's also been praised throughout the entire series by various different characters. He was complimented by Hiruzen, Jiraya, Kakashi, Tsunade, Tobi, A, Killer Bee etc. These are not fodder ninja's by any means. Kishimoto killed him off for a reason, he was unbeatable from what I've seen. Yet people make dumb threads like these comparing him to people we know nothing about.

Dude, Minato is severly overrated. You better be glad we barely know anything about Tobirama because every thing indicates Tobirama was almost if not equal to him.

 

[Prime Rib]

tobirama edo tensei was never complete but i bet that the reason it aint complete is cause the edos had free will

 

[Gold Lightning]

. We don't know NOTHING about Tobirama?? And dude.. this is about Tobirama being a better ninja... not who wins in a fight.

Tobirama has more on him then Minato. And don't even say we don't know about Tobirama's abilities. This is a analysis from what we know about Tobirama.

With all your baseless assumptions you think this makes Tobirama a better ninja. The only thing that is concrete about Tobirama is that he was a master Water style user. The rest is a little dodgy because his Edo tensei was inferior to orochimarus, he supposedly has s/t and thats pretty much it so far. The whole thing about Tobirama supposedly being an expert with seals was complete bull crap in your part as well. If kishimoto has not stated it of hinted towards it in anyway then no you can't just guess.

Plus minato was a prodigy who was like the 2nd youngest Hokage ever, the guy at age 12 singlehandedly tracked down Kushina and saved her from 3 elite ninja on his own. That's as ninja as it gets to me to be honest.

 

[IzunaSwift]

I think Minato would win.

As far as I know about Tobirama is that he was a master of Water jutsu, S/t, had a powerful Genjutsu that shrouded the enemy in darkness and died in a war. He was also brought to the brink of death along with the 2nd Raikage by Ginkaku and Kinkaku who at the time I believe didn't even have their 9 tails powers.

With the way Minato's raw speed, supplemented by FTG I'm sure Tobirama couldn't keep up with him. Just watching Minato vs Tobi it's clear that no ordinary ninja could lay a hand on him especially when he starts throwing seals everywhere.

 

[KingHashirama]

With all your baseless assumptions you think this makes Tobirama a better ninja. The only thing that is concrete about Tobirama is that he was a master Water style user. The rest is a little dodgy because his Edo tensei was inferior to orochimarus, he supposedly has s/t and thats pretty much it so far. The whole thing about Tobirama supposedly being an expert with seals was complete bull crap in your part as well. If kishimoto has not stated it of hinted towards it in anyway then no you can't just guess.

Plus minato was a prodigy who was like the 2nd youngest Hokage ever, the guy at age 12 singlehandedly tracked down Kushina and saved her from 3 elite ninja on his own. That's as ninja as it gets to me to be honest.

Baseless assumption??.

Senju have the most chakra = FACT

Senju are gifted with Taijutsu = FACT.

He was a HOKAGE (need to know seals , His brother was the strongest ninja of his time and a sealing expert, they had deep connections with Uzumaki) = FACT

We still don't know how his Edo tensei was weak =].


Youngest hokage = better Hokage or stronger Hokage?? so Sarutobi = the Strongest?? lmao. Itachi did more then Minato as a kid .... Kakashi became a jounin when he was 13.




Minato is a speedster.... not well rounded as Tobirama.

 

[marksonm]

With all your baseless assumptions you think this makes Tobirama a better ninja. The only thing that is concrete about Tobirama is that he was a master Water style user. The rest is a little dodgy because his Edo tensei was inferior to orochimarus, he supposedly has s/t and thats pretty much it so far. The whole thing about Tobirama supposedly being an expert with seals was complete bull crap in your part as well. If kishimoto has not stated it of hinted towards it in anyway then no you can't just guess.

Plus minato was a prodigy who was like the 2nd youngest Hokage ever, the guy at age 12 singlehandedly tracked down Kushina and saved her from 3 elite ninja on his own. That's as ninja as it gets to me to be honest.

This is so true, nice point
Based on what we have been told by Kishi about Tobirama and Minato, it shows Minato is a better ninja.

He fought off ninetails, his S/T jutsu is surely better than Tobirama's bcos Tobirama is not the symbol of speed and S/T jutsu in the Manga... Instead its Minato, he was known as the faster; come on, he was referred to as the Yellow flash of Konoha, not Tobirama as d white flash as Konoha LOL....

He fought and bested all the Ninjas of his time, whipping out loads of ninjas at 3rd war in a flash; ppl from other villages were told to run for their lives if they happened to see him:

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He fought Tobi and chose by his own will, when to finish d fight.
Definitely, he has a lot of sealing techniques bcos he was considered the best. He was already an elite ninja as a kid and rose from nobody to a hokage at a young age. Although we never saw him use any nature elements but he shod have one and be a beast at it. We can know this from when Kakashi was telling naruto about combining the rasengan with his natural element, that is what mina to wanted to do but cldnt finish it... thereby suggesting Minato had a natural element that he wanted to combine with rasengan to make it more power, which Naruto accomplished in that respect to surpass the Fourth and Jiraya.

He even fought A and Killer Bee; from the way killer Bee spoke, u cld tell that he really wooped them big time and got away alive and uninjured. I don't see Tobirama doing that. U might wanna argue that he will use Edo tensei but he won't even have the time to doing, if not he will get a double lariat straight up his neck xd

I must also give credit to Tobirama bcos he is a master in water element and consider a powerful genjutsu user to the extent that he could cover an entire area with darkness, and also, his has S/T jutsu as well coupled with Edo tensei which was not as strong as Oro's but was strong enough for the top guys as his age to have recognised it and given him credit for it but he didn't study it anymore bcos he declared it a kinjutsu.

But u have to hand it to Minato who was considered a rare genius that appeared only once in a generation. He graduated from the Academy at the age of ten, and was added to a genin team under the tutelage of Jiraiya who took a special interest in Minato, and accepted him as an apprentice, amongst other things teaching him the Summoning Technique. He even believed Minato might be the Child of the Prophecy obviously before Minato died

To compare their deaths; Tobirama stood to fight different ninjas while his students escaped (self sacrifice)..but believe you me, if it was mina to in that position he wld have killed all d ninjas in a flash which shows he has more arsenal power. whereas mina to died using Death God seal, bcos at that time that was all he had chakra to pull off not that he didn't know other seals to use... even the third cldnt do anything when u watch the anime, he was waiting and asking for Minato, only st using d monkey summon to push Ninetails out. that shows u Minato had some crazy arsenal power besides what Kishi has shown us to date

 

[Karyuu No]

.. And they are great.... Look at how they were beat.... they got sealed by the Sage's weapons. Do you actually believe Darui can handle them?? lmao



And thats what im saying.. its not being a Master at it. Cause its not stated that he was a master. And Uzumaki are known for Seals.. and Senju are right behind them =].



No Tobirama has more to offer.

Dude, what are you saying?
Minato>Tobirama... You're basis is random speculation.

I said I disagree because Tobirama was brought to his knees because of Kinkaku ad Ginkaku when Darui beat them.. So no duh he handled them...

I suggest you reread the manga..

 

[KingHashirama]

Dude, what are you saying?
Minato>Tobirama... You're basis is random speculation.

I said I disagree because Tobirama was brought to his knees because of Kinkaku ad Ginkaku when Darui beat them.. So no duh he handled them...

I suggest you reread the manga..

Ok Considering the Fact that they were sealed by the Sage's Weapon... I do not call that beating. =]

So Tobirama having , Mastery in water ,Edo tensei , S/T techs and Senju Taijutsu.. is all Random speculation?


I suggest you reread the manga and know what a perfect Package is. Talk to me about it when Minato shows physical strength.. And more chakra then a Senju. Lmao.

This is so true, nice point
Based on what we have been told by Kishi about Tobirama and Minato, it shows Minato is a better ninja.

He fought off ninetails, his S/T jutsu is surely better than Tobirama's bcos Tobirama is not the symbol of speed and S/T jutsu in the Manga... Instead its Minato, he was known as the faster; come on, he was referred to as the Yellow flash of Konoha, not Tobirama as d white flash as Konoha LOL....

He fought and bested all the Ninjas of his time, whipping out loads of ninjas at 3rd war in a flash; ppl from other villages were told to run for their lives if they happened to see him:

You must be registered for see links

He fought Tobi and chose by his own will, when to finish d fight.
Definitely, he has a lot of sealing techniques bcos he was considered the best. He was already an elite ninja as a kid and rose from nobody to a hokage at a young age. Although we never saw him use any nature elements but he shod have one and be a beast at it. We can know this from when Kakashi was telling naruto about combining the rasengan with his natural element, that is what mina to wanted to do but cldnt finish it... thereby suggesting Minato had a natural element that he wanted to combine with rasengan to make it more power, which Naruto accomplished in that respect to surpass the Fourth and Jiraya.

He even fought A and Killer Bee; from the way killer Bee spoke, u cld tell that he really wooped them big time and got away alive and uninjured. I don't see Tobirama doing that. U might wanna argue that he will use Edo tensei but he won't even have the time to doing, if not he will get a double lariat straight up his neck xd

I must also give credit to Tobirama bcos he is a master in water element and consider a powerful genjutsu user to the extent that he could cover an entire area with darkness, and also, his has S/T jutsu as well coupled with Edo tensei which was not as strong as Oro's but was strong enough for the top guys as his age to have recognised it and given him credit for it but he didn't study it anymore bcos he declared it a kinjutsu.

But u have to hand it to Minato who was considered a rare genius that appeared only once in a generation. He graduated from the Academy at the age of ten, and was added to a genin team under the tutelage of Jiraiya who took a special interest in Minato, and accepted him as an apprentice, amongst other things teaching him the Summoning Technique. He even believed Minato might be the Child of the Prophecy obviously before Minato died

To compare their deaths; Tobirama stood to fight different ninjas while his students escaped (self sacrifice)..but believe you me, if it was mina to in that position he wld have killed all d ninjas in a flash which shows he has more arsenal power. whereas mina to died using Death God seal, bcos at that time that was all he had chakra to pull off not that he didn't know other seals to use... even the third cldnt do anything when u watch the anime, he was waiting and asking for Minato, only st using d monkey summon to push Ninetails out. that shows u Minato had some crazy arsenal power besides what Kishi has shown us to date

First of all, Any S/T jutsu is usefull to kill ninjas instantly. If you wanna judge from child prodigies.. Then Itachi and Kakashi are better.

Tobirama Fought 20 ELITE KINKAKU AND GINKAKU FORCE ninjas. Meaning they were near Kinkaku and Ginkaku's level.



Tobirama :

1. S/T
2. Edo Tensei
3. Water Mastery
4. Sensor ninja
5. High Chakra
6. High Taijutsu.


already superior to Minato.. You should read the original post.. It specifically said , "it does not mean that Minato can't beat Tobirama in battle."

Minato :

1. S/T user
2. Frog summons
3. Rasengan.


close to "Complete Package" dude.. that is Tobirama.

 

[marksonm]

Ok Considering the Fact that they were sealed by the Sage's Weapon... I do not call that beating. =]

So Tobirama having , Mastery in water ,Edo tensei , S/T techs and Senju Taijutsu.. is all Random speculation?


I suggest you reread the manga and know what a perfect Package is. Talk to me about it when Minato shows physical strength.. And more chakra then a Senju. Lmao.





First of all, Any S/T jutsu is usefull to kill ninjas instantly. If you wanna judge from child prodigies.. Then Itachi and Kakashi are better.

Tobirama Fought 20 ELITE KINKAKU AND GINKAKU FORCE ninjas. Meaning they were near Kinkaku and Ginkaku's level.



Tobirama :

1. S/T
2. Edo Tensei
3. Water Mastery
4. Sensor ninja
5. High Chakra
6. High Taijutsu.


already superior to Minato.. You should read the original post.. It specifically said , "it does not mean that Minato can't beat Tobirama in battle."

Minato :

1. S/T user
2. Frog summons
3. Rasengan.


close to "Complete Package" dude.. that is Tobirama.

:flaw:
How did u know how many ninjas he fought and how strong they were to say they were 20 close to Kinkaku and Ginkaku? :shrug:... u r just blind and u have chosen to profusely believe what u want tentatively, without considering others cos most of ur arguments r baseless and u still follow it blindly. r u Kishi? perhaps u r under Tobirama Genjutsu thats y u love him so much. :sy:

Minato was considered and said to be a rare genius that appeared only once in a generation. He graduated from the Academy at the age of 10 and was added to a genin team under the tutelage of Jiraiya, who even believed Minato might be the Child of the Prophecy. He had S/T jutsu with body flicker and was d fastest Ninja to ever grace Naruto Manga and Anime and was known as d yellow flash of Konoha... thats to tell u the talent he possessed and none of these things were said about ur darling Tobirama.

I bet Tobi will rape Tobirama any day, any time. Even Oro will rape Tobirama but u can't simply say that about Minato cos he will flush out those 2 ninjas as proven in d manga, not speculation.

I feel u shld be placed under Izanami until u realise the truth and stop d speculation and read the manga without ur own sentiments since u aint Kishi then just follow what he gives u d privilege to know, and not to formulate ur own.... simple

 

[Minator93]

On contrary to popular belief Tobirama is actually pretty strong heck He is theorotically Invincible U_U

Edo-Tensei + S/T => Combination of Kabuto and Tobi U_U

But Minato on the other hand happens to be his worst Possible Opponent U_U

He also has S/T and is a Master in Fugin Jutsus. Tobirama also happens to be Minato's bad match-up but Minato has more Speed and reflexes helping him U_U

Due to incomplete Data I'd say Minato > Tobirama.

"It doesn't matter what I believe. It only matters what I can prove!" U_U

 

[SilverSlick]

:flaw:
How did u know how many ninjas he fought and how strong they were to say they were 20 close to Kinkaku and Ginkaku? :shrug:... u r just blind and u have chosen to profusely believe what u want tentatively, without considering others cos most of ur arguments r baseless and u still follow it blindly. r u Kishi? perhaps u r under Tobirama Genjutsu thats y u love him so much. :sy:

Minato was considered and said to be a rare genius that appeared only once in a generation. He graduated from the Academy at the age of 10 and was added to a genin team under the tutelage of Jiraiya, who even believed Minato might be the Child of the Prophecy. He had S/T jutsu with body flicker and was d fastest Ninja to ever grace Naruto Manga and Anime and was known as d yellow flash of Konoha... thats to tell u the talent he possessed and none of these things were said about ur darling Tobirama.

I bet Tobi will rape Tobirama any day, any time. Even Oro will rape Tobirama but u can't simply say that about Minato cos he will flush out those 2 ninjas as proven in d manga, not speculation.

I feel u shld be placed under Izanami until u realise the truth and stop d speculation and read the manga without ur own sentiments since u aint Kishi then just follow what he gives u d privilege to know, and not to formulate ur own.... simple

I have a feeling you didn't read his original post properly. He has said many times throughout the thread that this wasn't a who's stronger thread, its who has the complete package. Tobirama does actually.

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

both top class ninja, but i guess we shouldn't say anything until we have any idea how the REAL tobirama fight. until then just like who you wan't and forget who is stronger .... me i like tobirama more ...

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damn ..... wease: .... so this is greatness

 

[SilverSlick]

both top class ninja, but i guess we shouldn't say anything until we have any idea how the REAL tobirama fight. until then just like who you wan't and forget who is stronger .... me i like tobirama more ...

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damn ..... wease: .... so this is greatness

So much SWAG.