Nepotism in Konoha and Why the Uchiha Were Right to Rebel

[Mikasa Hagaromo]

I don't recall ever seeing this topic in the forums, but can we talk about the lack of social mobility and nepotism that is glaringly obvious in this series?

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3rd hokage, student of the 1st and 2nd hokages....
4th hokage, student of Jiraiya, a student of the 3rd hokage
5th hokage, grand daughter of the 1st hokage, grandniece of the 2nd hokage, student of the 3rd hokage
6th hokage, student of the 4th hokage
7th hokage, son of the 4th hokage, student of the 6th hokage.

Danzou- was about to be hokage, subordinate of 2nd hokage, teammate of 3rd hokage.

Konomaru, likely to be the next hokage after Naruto's reign, grandson of 3rd hokage, student of 7th hokage.

WOW. Just wow! They sure know how to keep the power in the "family" don't they?

With this system, how can any other clan hope to become part of the UPPER ECHELONS of the power structure with this kind of insular selection process.

Not one Uchiha within the power structure and they were 1 or 2 founding clans. The Sarutobi and Shimara came AFTER them and they're all up in the high offices.

This shit alone justifies the rebellion. Shit, the other clans need to rebel too.

How can any thinking person think Konoha's political structure is ok?

 

[Romy9]

It's quite simple. The ones who rebelled in Uchiha, or the individuals to be more precise, wanted to rule through authority of power. That's dictatorship or tyranny. It's not acceptable.

 

[Defence]

We have been saying this all along. NEJI WAS RIGHT

 

[Dantee]

This has been discussed. It's apparent if you're not a relative or a student of pass hokages you cannot become a eligible candidate. If Naruto wants to constitute change Salada should be the next hokage.

 

[chaos control]

I already debunked that argument in this thread of mine:

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[Mellow]

Well it Was Madaras choice . since he wasn't gonna roll with the village & be co-hokage , the leadership just fell under Senju rule.

Which lowered the chances for Uchiha too get superiority. The closes they got to it was being the Police department

 

[baitcaster]

I agree. Judgmental bastards.

 

[Bolt Rules]

Not even Itachi or Shisui concede with your awful assertion.

 

[Arima]

Democracy bro. Senju, Senju, Sarutobi, Namikaze, Senju, Hatake, Uzumaki - so out of 7 hokage there are representatives of 5 different clans. If you want to say about title passing down the master-subordinate way, then Sasuke had a chance of being Hokage just as much as Naruto, however he turned out evil - and how would you expect people to acknowledge him. On the other hand all hokages in the list did everything for village. So any uchiha had equal chance of being hokage just like any other clan member

 

[Amaterasu]

Good teachers make good students ?

Talentuous ninjas make talentuous children ?

Stupid thread of the day...

 

[Kamui Sama]

This system is not exclusive to konoha, it occurs in every other village as well. The Uchiha chose to rebel and they were eradicated in standard shinobi fashion

 

[Arima]

Good teachers make good students ?

Talentuous ninjas make talentuous children ?

Stupid thread of the day...

Agreed!

 

[shelke]

The Uchiha had every right to rebel and take back their right as a citizen within a political setup that ostracized them. There was no democracy in Konoha to begin with, so it was a tyrannical set up from the start. They were also the founding fathers, hence, after Senju, the village rightfully belonged to them.

 

[take it easy]

Not one Uchiha within the power structure and they were 1 or 2 founding clans. The Sarutobi and Shimara came AFTER them and they're all up in the high offices.

Konoha Policy...

 

[Mikasa Hagaromo]

I already debunked that argument in this thread of mine:

You must be registered for see links

I skimmed through your wall of text and this only bolstered my point. DISCRIMINATION! You think if Obito wanted to be hokage they'd allow it? Prejudice against the Uchiha was already engrained in the system on account of Tobirama's beliefs bout them gaining power through hatred. That's WRONG btw--they gain power through heightened emotions.....the village has a glass ceiling that no Uchiha could surpass bc they are Uchihas....

...and you're using the cou to justify why they're unfit to be hokage? Hello!! it ws the prejudice against them eliminating the chance for them to every become part of the power structure that created the political conditions for the cou....

You've debunked nothing....all you've presented are biased, minimally thought out justifications for Konoha's corruption.

It's quite simple. The ones who rebelled in Uchiha, or the individuals to be more precise, wanted to rule through authority of power. That's dictatorship or tyranny. It's not acceptable.

NOT true.....they rebelled after suffering discrimination.....I guess the American revolutionary war was to set up a tyrannical govt right? Why are you ppl jumping to tyranny when they wanted to rebel to gain their rightful place at the table?

You saw Fugaku and Mito when Itachi was about to kill them. Do they look like tyrannical maniacs to you? These were ppl who got fed up with being locked out of th system and decided to do something about it.

This has been discussed. It's apparent if you're not a relative or a student of pass hokages you cannot become a eligible candidate. If Naruto wants to constitute change Salada should be the next hokage.

Yes! I would love to see that. Sarada should absolutely be the next hokage...or Sasuke.....shiit....Naruto needs to step down at one point and Sasuke needs to be given the chance to be voted it.....he redeemed himself by saving the village and is probably still serving it from the shadows.....though he'd turn down the position.

Well it Was Madaras choice . since he wasn't gonna roll with the village & be co-hokage , the leadership just fell under Senju rule.

Which lowered the chances for Uchiha too get superiority. The closes they got to it was being the Police department

This is an oversimplistic way to explain the situation, IMO....it would've been one thing if Tobirama shot down Madara's candidacy bc he was Madara specifically...but it was Tobirama's "an did you hear the rumors about the Uchihas" line that pushed Madara over the edge bc that showed that the distrust didn't only focus on him, but on the Uchiha clan itself.

Not even Itachi or Shisui concede with your awful assertion.

Some might say Itachi and Shisui are a bunch of uncle tom ass *****s.

 

[giostep]

Democracy bro. Senju, Senju, Sarutobi, Namikaze, Senju, Hatake, Uzumaki - so out of 7 hokage there are representatives of 5 different clans. If you want to say about title passing down the master-subordinate way, then Sasuke had a chance of being Hokage just as much as Naruto, however he turned out evil - and how would you expect people to acknowledge him. On the other hand all hokages in the list did everything for village. So any uchiha had equal chance of being hokage just like any other clan member

This.
/thread

 

[Mikasa Hagaromo]

Democracy bro. Senju, Senju, Sarutobi, Namikaze, Senju, Hatake, Uzumaki - so out of 7 hokage there are representatives of 5 different clans. If you want to say about title passing down the master-subordinate way, then Sasuke had a chance of being Hokage just as much as Naruto, however he turned out evil - and how would you expect people to acknowledge him. On the other hand all hokages in the list did everything for village. So any uchiha had equal chance of being hokage just like any other clan member

Good teachers make good students ?

Talentuous ninjas make talentuous children ?

Stupid thread of the day...

This.
/thread

Some of you ppl are so naive and gullible it's disturbing. Ever heard of controlling the selection process? You put up the ppl that you''re ok with for canddidacy and present them to the ppl to chose from. That's basically what happened here.

Look at the teaming patterns. There's a formula. Ino-shika-cho 1st and 2nd generation.....team minato....an Uchiha, a non-uchiha, and a useless female....and notice how certain clans are directed to certain fields bc of their abilities (which is completely to be expected and makes perfect sense)...so essentially the chance of them every getting a position outside of their roles are low.

 

[chaos control]

I skimmed through your wall of text and this only bolstered my point. DISCRIMINATION! You think if Obito wanted to be hokage they'd allow it? Prejudice against the Uchiha was already engrained in the system on account of Tobirama's beliefs bout them gaining power through hatred. That's WRONG btw--they gain power through heightened emotions.....the village has a glass ceiling that no Uchiha could surpass bc they are Uchihas....

...and you're using the cou to justify why they're unfit to be hokage? Hello!! it ws the prejudice against them eliminating the chance for them to every become part of the power structure that created the political conditions for the cou....

You've debunked nothing....all you've presented are biased, minimally thought out justifications for Konoha's corruption.

1. I am talking about Obito before he adopted Madara's ideals. Do I think they would allow him to be hokage? Yes! Minato himself actually said to Obito "I would have liked you to be hokage."

2. The only prejudice against the Uchiha in the village actually came from Danzou and those elders when they accused the Uchiha for Kurama's attack. The massacre came as a result of the rebellion which which the Uchiha came up with because of that accusation. Basically, the accusation is the root of any discrimination against the Uchiha. There was nothing before this incident that discriminated against them or would prevent them from being hokage. In fact, Minato wasn't the only one who wanted an Uchiha as hokage. Hashirama had tried to make Madara hokage as well. Hiruzen said that Itachi would have been great. Basically, only Koharu, Homura and Danzou were the ones discriminating against the Uchiha. Even if these 3 objected to Minato's or Hiruzen's decision to choose someone like Obito or Itachi, it wouldn't matter. The hokage chooses their successor. It is only if the hokage dies before choosing a successor that the choice goes to the elders and feudal lords.

3. Tobirama didn't actually say that the Uchihas gained power through hatred. He said the opposite actually. He said that when an Uchiha loses love and feels that emotional pain of loss, their eyes power up.

4. Making the Uchiha the head of the police force isn't discrimination against the Uchiha. You may say what Orochimaru said about how giving them the police force pushed them to the outskirts of the village and allowed Tobirama to keep watch on them, but you must not forget that lots of clans are actually secluded to one area. The Hyuuga for instance generally stay in that one Hyuuga complex area. The Naara clan is placed near that forest of deers. Lots of clans are isolated into sections. Therefore it is not just the Uchiha. As for keeping tabs on the Uchiha, tabs are kept on a lot of people. Heck, Danzou didn't even want to let Naruto out of the village due to him being a jinchuuriki. Face it: The Uchiha were treated as any other clan except for that accusation.

5. While I have already admitted that they were wrongfully accused and massacred due to the coup that resulted from said accusation, being wronged does not make someone fit to lead a village. For example. I am black. Black people in America used to be taken as slaves which is a terrible injustice. Because my race was wronged, does that automatically mean that I should be made president? No!

6. I wasn't using the coup to say that the Uchiha were unfit. I was saying that, if you were in the government of a village, and you saw that a faction of that village was planning a coup, why would you make a member of that faction the leader of the village? All you are doing then is just accomplishing the objective of their coup for them.

Read the whole thing instead of skimming next time.

 

[Mikasa Hagaromo]

1. I am talking about Obito before he adopted Madara's ideals. Do I think they would allow him to be hokage? Yes! Minato himself actually said to Obito "I would have liked you to be hokage."

2. The only prejudice against the Uchiha in the village actually came from Danzou and those elders when they accused the Uchiha for Kurama's attack. The massacre came as a result of the rebellion which which the Uchiha came up with because of that accusation. Basically, the accusation is the root of any discrimination against the Uchiha. There was nothing before this incident that discriminated against them or would prevent them from being hokage. In fact, Minato wasn't the only one who wanted an Uchiha as hokage. Hashirama had tried to make Madara hokage as well. Hiruzen said that Itachi would have been great. Basically, only Koharu, Homura and Danzou were the ones discriminating against the Uchiha. Even if these 3 objected to Minato's or Hiruzen's decision to choose someone like Obito or Itachi, it wouldn't matter. The hokage chooses their successor. It is only if the hokage dies before choosing a successor that the choice goes to the elders and feudal lords.

3. Tobirama didn't actually say that the Uchihas gained power through hatred. He said the opposite actually. He said that when an Uchiha loses love and feels that emotional pain of loss, their eyes power up.

4. Making the Uchiha the head of the police force isn't discrimination against the Uchiha. You may say what Orochimaru said about how giving them the police force pushed them to the outskirts of the village and allowed Tobirama to keep watch on them, but you must not forget that lots of clans are actually secluded to one area. The Hyuuga for instance generally stay in that one Hyuuga complex area. The Naara clan is placed near that forest of deers. Lots of clans are isolated into sections. Therefore it is not just the Uchiha. As for keeping tabs on the Uchiha, tabs are kept on a lot of people. Heck, Danzou didn't even want to let Naruto out of the village due to him being a jinchuuriki. Face it: The Uchiha were treated as any other clan except for that accusation.

5. While I have already admitted that they were wrongfully accused and massacred due to the coup that resulted from said accusation, being wronged does not make someone fit to lead a village. For example. I am black. Black people in America used to be taken as slaves which is a terrible injustice. Because my race was wronged, does that automatically mean that I should be made president? No!

6. I wasn't using the coup to say that the Uchiha were unfit. I was saying that, if you were in the government of a village, and you saw that a faction of that village was planning a coup, why would you make a member of that faction the leader of the village? All you are doing then is just accomplishing the objective of their coup for them.

Read the whole thing instead of skimming next time.

1- Yea...Minato would've loved to NOMINATE him...but it's not completely up to him....once that shit went to the counsel and damyo, they would've shut tht shit down quick on account of the mental instability and curse of hatred rumors.

2- The discrimination started when Tobirama drove them out of the village and allowed them to govern themselves then boxed them into the police force which forever makes them the enforcers of the law, but not the makers of the law.

Please show me evidence of other clans living on the outskirts of the village.

3- I'm not saying the Uchhas should be made president bc of discrimination, I'm saying as a founding clan it's bull shit that they've been excluded from a power structure that lesser and later clans are part of.

Y'll really think the hokage pattern is accidental?!

 

[chaos control]

1- Yea...Minato would've loved to NOMINATE him...but it's not completely up to him....once that shit went to the counsel and damyo, they would've shut tht shit down quick on account of the mental instability and curse of hatred rumors.

2- The discrimination started when Tobirama drove them out of the village and allowed them to govern themselves then boxed them into the police force which forever makes them the enforcers of the law, but not the makers of the law.

Please show me evidence of other clans living on the outskirts of the village.

3- I'm not saying the Uchhas should be made president bc of discrimination, I'm saying as a founding clan it's bull shit that they've been excluded from a power structure that lesser and later clans are part of.

Y'll really think the hokage pattern is accidental?!

1. The hokage chooses their successor. Hiruzen chose Minato. Tsunade chose Kakashi. Kakashi chose Naruto, etc... Besides, even if the counsel does get a say in it, the counsel generally chooses based on ideology and those who have the "will of fire" ideals that all of the hokages 1 -7 have had. Yes Danzou and those elders would oppose, but it is not up to them. Danzou and those two elders did not approve of Tsunade or Jiraiya being hokage, but Tsunade actually still became hokage and Jiraiya was suggested by the council on multiple occasions. This is because Tsunade and Jiraiya have the will of fire ideology that Hiruzen and other hokages have.

2. Tobirama never said that they couldn't become law makers. Enforcing is just one job and nobody ever said that they could not move up or do any other job. Heck, Itachi and Shisui became anbu black ops (that is a different job from the police force and it is also a high ranking job). Also, the outskirts are just a geographic location. They still got all the news in Konoha and all of the other luxuries. All they had to do in order to get closer was just commute. As for your request for other clans living on the outskirts: Hyuugas live in that one complex. Naaras are left to tend to that forest. I don't know if the Hyuuga complex and that deer forest are on the outskirts, but this is still being confined to a single area. Besides, nothing in particular is wrong with being geographically located on the outskirts. Somebody has to live there. If you want to go get some ramen or do anything else then just walk to the ramen shop from the outskirts (just as everyone else walks from their homes).

3. Being apart of the founding body doesn't guarantee that you are actually a good leader nor does it make leadership something that you should naturally inherit. It is like I said in my thread: All Madara did was accept the treaty after telling Hashirama to kill himself or Tobirama (and he came up with the name of the village). The Uchiha, being under Madara, did no more than Madara. Hashirama built the village. Hashirama came up with the idea for a hokage. Hashirama created the peace offering in the first place. It makes sense that Hashirama became hokage. The things he did showed him to be a good leader. What did Madara or any other Uchiha do to show this?
Accepting a treaty is not an act of leadership. Anybody can shake hands or write their names on a piece of paper. The leader is the one that proposed it.

If an Uchiha was chosen as hokage just because their clan was apart of the founding body, then that would be essentially picking a leader solely based on race. That is a horrible way to pick a leader.

4. Also, I explained in my thread why all known Uchiha candidates didn't work out.