We've seen Itachi using Water Release jutsus only onece or twice, and that was with a water source. So, we can assume that he's not that skilled in water release. Plus, Sasori would made water poisonus, because he used water techiwues when using himself and he's stated that everything that comes from him is poisonus.
Iron Sand -> regular Sand. Which means that Iron Sand is a perfect defense against Amaterasu.
Well, Itachi actually used the Dragon Bullet technique in the fight against Kabuto inside a cave that didn't seem to have a water source and his fire techniques make iron sand manipulation useless. Itachi is proficient enough to use water techniques without a source. He was an anbu captain at age 13 aka jounin which has been said that they are proficient at two and even three elements.
Well, Itachi actually used the Dragon Bullet technique in the fight against Kabuto inside a cave that didn't seem to have a water source and his fire techniques make iron sand manipulation useless. Itachi is proficient enough to use water techniques without a source. He was an anbu captain at age 13 aka jounin which has been said that they are proficient at two and even three elements.
Forgot about that one in the cave.
Still, water is not a threat for Sasori's poison, as I've stated.
Do you have any proof that Amaterasu can harm Iron Sand?
I have a proof that it can't. Iron Sand and Magnet Release both suprases Gaara's sand control. Which means that Sasori shouldn't have problems dealing with Amaterasu.
Well I had a book report but, I know you're a friend of Icelerate, so your thread intrigued me.
While I do agree Sasori gets underrated, I think his performance of 100 puppets tends to get overrated against more powerful opponents, I think Iron Sand is a far deadlier weapon. Anyways I'll talk about how Itachi can counter Sasori's move-pool.
In General: Itachi's greatest defense will be his sharingan and speed. The sharingan will let Itachi be able to foresee any poisonous blade and react accordingly with his speed, which is 5/5 according to the DB. Also Itachi fast hand seal speed will help, since he can then quickly. counter while dodging.
Hiruko:
Hiruko is seen to be slower and less powerful than Sasori's other forms, but if useful due to being very defensive and shields Sasori from harm. So how Itachi fight the defensive Hiruko? Exploding shadow clones/crow clones
These will be useful both offensively and defensively. I doubt sasori has the best observation skills while being cooped inside of a puppet shell. These can be both used for misdirection and destroying Hiruko with explosions. Fire Style
Itachi has very potent fire style that can probably destroy Hiruko, which is also presumable composed of at least some wood.
Itachi's fireball is seen to have enough force to scorch away the earth underneath it.
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Though this is speculation, he probably also has access to Fire Style: Great Dragon flame since sasuke and madara both have access to it as well. This move was hot enough to go straight through a stone/cement roof.
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Performance of 100 puppets
To be honest, I really don't find this to be all that threatening in the face of Susanoo. Although it is costly in terms of chakra, Itachi won't really need to go final form to deal with the puppets.
The 2nd state would probably be sufficient due to it being able to access the yata mirror.
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The 2nd form can either a use yasaka beads or a sword to sweep through the puppets, as those attack can wipe out dozens of puppets in seconds, while the puppets can't really harm Susanoo. As long as Itachi saves enough chakra to do this at this point in the game, the 100 puppets aren't much of a threat.
I might cover Itachi's counter for Iron sand, but right now I'm busy but very good thread negative. I hope you liked my post .
You raise some interesting points, though i must inevitably counter them xd.
The sharingan's granted ability to forsee attacks and anticipate assualts can only take him so far. How many simulatenous attacks could it possibly react to before being overwhelmed ? Even then, some of Sasori's attacks far exceed the anticipatory capabilites of the sharingan, as Varrah stated earlier they break the sound barrier and are hypersonic.
When you consider this logically, Itachi's own enhanced reflexes can't hope to compare to the very force of magnetism.
Earlier in my thread i stated this:
"Due to being a product of magnetism's repulsive forces, it acts in such a way that can't be anticipated by anyone not even the user themselves. The forces interact in several ways, most likely producing a uniquely different shape every time effectively negating even the best of reflexes. Ordinary acts can be anticipated due to following some sort of linear pattern with each use but magnetism's sporadic nature completely negates this, at a simple turn an offensive can come out of nowhere".
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From this, we can clearly see, its impossible to determine the course of attacks which are solely governed by magnetic forces, they exceed the human capability to react to the said stimuli.
As to counter your points concerning Hiruko.
Hiruko is largely underrated simply because he was destroyed by a full-powered punch from Sakura, there was no reason for her to hold back if it was a life and death situation.
Its structure even gives off an air of durability, most likely enough to completely/partially tank Itachi's Exploding clone and Fire Release Ninjutsu.
Hmm, Performance of 100 Puppets ? I doubt Sasori would have to resort to that before Itachi brings out Susann'o. My reason for this being, that Itachi has been shown to use it in an hopeless situation e.g. against a foe such as Nagato or an attack such as Kirin (undodgeable).
Iron Sand World Order, for reasons already stated in the thread is just as undodgeable as Kirin. If this is the case, then Itachi would have to bring out Susann'o as a result of this, hence trapping himself in an intricate and interbranching prison, both restricting his movements and acting as a chakra drain until the structure is released.
Thats just hype. If Amaterasu was as hot as the sun it would have killed A as soon as it touched him. Instead he smashed his hand into it and didn't even show that he was in pain. He managed to keep the flames on his hand for a while as well.
I know A is durable but if the flames were as hot as the sun I don't think he would have survived.
To start I just want to say that I believe that Sasori and Itachi are very evenly matched and that Sasori is immensely strong, but for the sake of being a devils advocate I will choose to defend Itachi's position.
Sasori's main fighting style is long-range and he hopes to overwhelm you with his techniques, whether that be 100 puppets or iron sand etc, that's the main goal. On the other side Itachi seems to be a mid to short-range fighter who uses feints etc to draw his opponent off-guard and then defeat him that way (he is an innate pacifist). Now this is not to say that either one can not switch up fighting styles, it's just their preferred. As Kage tier shinobi they can adjust to the situation.
It seems that your main points as to why Sasori could beat Itachi is his use of the 3rd Kazekage and his iron sand/magnet release and his 100 puppets with poisoned weapons. Also a major part of Itachi's arsenal is apparently useless because Sasori cannot be affected by genjutsu. That is all well and good except:
Iron Sand/Magnet Release:
This is pretty much useless against Itachi and here's why; Itachi is a fire style user. He hails from the Uchiha clan who is naturally proficient at fire techniques and he was regarded as one of the best in the clan ever. (Sasuke could create the Great Fireball at age 5 but his father said Itachi was much better etc etc) Itachi would not struggle with using fire techniques throughout the whole fight because of this. Why is this important? Because, fire is what would demagnetize all of the kazekage's manipulation. We know that his techniques are a nice bright orange color, this equates to a temperature of roughly 1,100C. Iron loses its magnetic properties at 770C. So essentially anything that involves Magnetism/Magnetic release/Iron sand is irrelevant. Itachi does not even need to resort to Amaterasu because Great Fireball and Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson are more than sufficient (and his stamina/chakra level does not really come into play yet because he is so proficient at fire release and is not using his mangekyo).
Puppet techniques/Poison:
I believe that Itachi's intelligence, ability to use high level water and fire techniques and the use of his crow and shadow clones would be able to dodge and escape Sasori's mass attacks. BUT even if that is not enough, Itachi could resort to using Amaterasu to destroy most of the puppets/block their attacks or even go so far as to activate Susanoo and protect himself that way, as I don't think the puppet forces are enough to penetrate Susanoo.
Sasori being unaffected by Genjutsu:
Now this is obviously debatable but here are some reasons why Sasori COULD be affected by genjutsu, thus ending the fight even quicker through the use of Tsukuyomi or Izanami. **I fully acknowledge that he could not have a brain etc etc. Sasori is a HUMAN puppet and a being in the naruto universe. In order to fight you Have to have the senses working in order to see, hear, feel, etc. There has to be some kind of input and processing unit that allows him to live breath and fight. Thus, the there has to be some kind of chakra network that could be disrupted. Let's say that he doesn't have real eyes so he can't be put under by ocular jutsu, Itachi could still trap him in Izanami (which affects the five senses, and affected Kabuto despite his attempts to not be affected by the sharingan) so he could force him to lose the fight that way. This might be seen as a cop out win for Itachi, but even without this Itachi could still beat Sasori.
And lastly, another way that Itachi could defeat Sasori is by finally using Susanno and utilizing the Sword of Totsuka (which is an ethereal sword) to extend the long distance that could seperate them and seal Sasori in the "genjutsu-like 'world of drunken dreams' for all eternity" like what happened to Orochimaru and Nagato. If Itachi were to resort to using the three Mangekyo powers then it is hardly possible to see how Sasori could win. His intelligence, speed, array of jutsu and over all prowess gives him the win in this 1v1 battle.
This is a fantastic thread and depicts both Sasori and Itachi very well and shows why Sasori should not be underrated by any means, but to be honest Itachi is just a bad match-up for Sasori. Props Negative Knight and Co. Keep up the good work
This is a very common misconception. Iron Sand's durability against Fire Release is largely misunderstood, only Lightning Release would be capable of demagnetization, due to it essentially being a Doton technique and the electricity being conducted along it. However, Fire Release techniques have been shown to be extremely prone to heat sinks such as Sand based materials e.g. Gaara's Sand against Amaretsu. Normally i would agree that Fire Release would affect metal elements, but the fact that its Iron Sand means the unique structure gives it some sort of resistance against fire.
You might be right about Izanami being the only Genjutsu which would work, but its not a combat type Genjutsu as stated by Itachi himself. He would die multiple times before its activation.
Finally, to counter Susann'o i would have to say that the activation conditions is what will decide this fight. Unlike Sasuke, Itachi doesn't use his Susann'o recklessly but rather in dire situations (Vs Nagato or Kirin). The only time i see him activating the attack is against Iron Sand World Order, but he would subsequently be trapped in a prison if he did allowing Sasori to seep sand under his Susann'o and capture, or simply allow the chakra drain to take its toll. Either way, i assume Itachi would deactivate Susann'o before this happened, leaving him without this tech for the rest of the match (unlikely to use for a 2nd time).
I was just pointing this out because someone said the battle between Kabuto and Itachi, Itachi had used Suiton without any water source. So I was highlighting the fact that actually, the caves are sources of humidity which leads to water and that's why he was able to use Suiton.
I was just pointing this out because someone said the battle between Kabuto and Itachi, Itachi had used Suiton without any water source. So I was highlighting the fact that actually, the caves are sources of humidity which leads to water and that's why he was able to use Suiton.
Sasori of the Iron Sand vs Itachi of the Sharingan
This is the 2nd Installment in my new variation Vs Threads which will establish many common misconceptions in the ranking of Akatsuki members.
A Special Thanks to
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for assisting me in this thread and
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for helping out with presentation and such.
This is a thread highlighting the strength of Sasori, his overlooked abilities and essentially it has no bias but a purpose, and is therefore showing why either side could win. Simply you just ignore the title as I wrote it that way for people to recognize it was one of my threads, however the thread will concentrate more on the underdog in this battle to explain why this is a fair match up.
The Human Puppet
Sasori's Abilities
Iron Sand Kekkei Genkai
Sasori's favourite and most commonly used puppet was his Third Kazekage one, it managed retain its one of a kind Magnet Release ability used to manipulate Iron Sand hence granting Sasori free manipulation of this deadly weapon.
How Sasori could use this ability against Itachi: This would be Sasori's greatest weapon in this fight, his access to an infinite armoury by creating any weapon from the iron sand which would serve several purposes in countering Itachi's unique fighting style, namely Susanno'o. It could also be used as a method of creating an Iron Armour Defense similar to that of Gaara's to prevent Itachi's Fire Based Ninjutsu and to an extent Amaretsu from harming him by shedding the layers which are caught by the deadly flames.
Its unique versatility as well as being sand based grants it the typical ability of Flight which Sasori could use as a short term method to escape certain attacks.
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Powerful Fire Release Techniques
Scrolls on Sasori's back allowed him to shoot powerful streams of fire whilst in his "Human Puppet" Form. This gave him a long range alternative to bombarding the opponent with a hundred puppets all at once, meaning they would also have to dodge fast moving superheated streams of fire along with the impending threat of being cut by the poisoned puppets meaning even a light scratch or stumble would indeed prove to be fatal.
Combining this with performance of 100 Puppets would provide an alternative to utilizing the puppets alone, hence removing his weakness of Itachi managing to bypass his army.
Sasori's Iron Sand Elemental Strengths and Weaknesses
Absolute Immunity - Even the most powerful wind techniques won't do much damage against this defense, the force is easily dissipated when the iron sand clusters together.
Absolute Immunity - Earth wouldn't be strong enough to compete with the iron sand natural superiority, especially when it is condensed.
Immunity to most Fire Techniques - would become useless in the face of this as the intense heats magnemite is able to endure (apart from Madara and a few select other's techniques).
Immunity to Water Techniques - They would instead of soaking into it like with ordinary sand would just wipe off, it also dissipates strong waves of water much like Earth Techniques.
Severe Weakness against Lightning Techniques - Due to Lightning's known ability of demagnitizing Iron Sand, it would render the technique effectively useless as the user can no longer manipulate it due to its reliance on magnetic forces.
Hiruko - Scorpion Puppet Armour
Hiruko was a puppet worn by Sasori for the majority of the time which he used as a armour and a weapon. This eliminated the biggest weakness of a puppet user as Sasori was no longer physically separated by his puppet meaning the opponent doesn't attack him (the puppet user) but instead has to combat him directly (in his puppet Armour.
This could be used as a alternative fighting style for Sasori in the beginning of the fight and changing mid way through the fight causing Deidara having to suddenly adapt to the drastic change in fighting style. It also acts as an armour for the beginning stages of the fight to defend against Itachi's Shurkien Jutsu, Fire Release techniques and Itachi's High prowess Taijutsu.
298 Human Puppet Inventory
Sasori had a collection of over 200 Puppets made of deceased and very skilled Shinobi, they seem to still posses their abilities as shown through the Third Kazekage retaining both his Kekkei Genkai Magnet Release and his Iron Sand.
Chiyo claiming that Human Puppets retain all their abilities from when they were alive
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How Sasori could use this ability against Itachi: Sasori's collection provided him with an insane amount of battle versatility, especially considering they were portable by keeping them in summoning scrolls and required relatively little time to bring out. Considering each and every one of his human puppets were of a certain quality as claimed by Sasori himself along with them retaining all of their jutsu from when they were alive provided Sasori with an infinite chakra supply (the puppets utilized their own chakra) and an seemingly endless array of Ninjutsu which undoubtedly possessed high calibur users of the five basic elements.
Lethal Poisoned Weapons
Sasori had poisoned everything in his inventory meaning one scratch would first immobilize you and fully kill you within three days. The nature of weapons went from normal combat to a state of lethality similar to Hidan as exposing a wound through a cut meant that the posion would seep through thus killing you, it was this that made Sasori's fighting style so dangerous to combat because false moves and mistakes meant certain death.
Without a preconceived antidote, something Itachi wouldn't have this effectively became a one shot kill method when applied appropriately e.g. Performance of 100 Puppets or Iron Sand Bullets. Its lethality is greatly underestimated when considering Sasori as a character, with few people realizing that fundamentally a direct hit of even one of Sasori's attacks possessed the same effect of being hit with an Amaretsu or Rasenshuriken.
Red Secret Technique: Performance of 100 Puppets
By making his body into a "Human Puppet" Sasori only has a small living core inside a Puppet Body in the image of himself. Inside his chest he has a hundred chakra strings which control one hundred puppet all simultaneously. With this he can overwhelm his opponent by controlling them in such a way where it is impossible to dodge. Also because the puppets are directly linked to him there is no response lag in between the command input and the puppet's response.
How Sasori could use this ability against Itachi: This technique's utility transcends the usefulness of most, every puppet possesses poisoned weapons and can all act independently without "lag" from Sasori to the puppets meaning he effectively embodied each and every one of them. The formations that can be created from the puppets are limitless due to the sheer number, they could be used as a shield against Amaretsu, can form together to create a pseduo-shield and simply overwhelm the Itachi with a sheer number of simultaneous assaults making it difficult for his Sharingan to follow all of their movements.
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The Hero in the Shadow
Itachi's Abilities
-Large Scale Fire Release Techniques
Itachi's Fire Release Techniques were on a whole another level being of such a magnitude able to make samehada cringe due to the intensity of the heat and able to even take out most water Release techniques. Itachi's signature Fire Release move was the Giant Fireball technique which was enough to overwhelm and consume most other fire techniques.
How Itachi could use this ability against Sasori: Some (not all) of Itachi's Arsenal is composed of high powered Fire Release Ninjutsu which undoubtedly came with extreme heats and high temperatures. This means that some of his Fire techs possessed the ability to reach temperatures high enough to make manipulating the Iron Sand extremely difficult (magnetic fields are negatively effected by high temperatures) or even demagnetize smaller quantities of Iron Sand.
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-Amaretsu's Black Flames
Amaretsu is Itachi’s trump card, due to the destructive nature of one hit landing, these controllable black flames would trump any and all elemental affinities and one successful hit would almost confirm the victory or severely disadvantage the enemy by removing whole limbs as shown when the 4th Raikage lost his arm against Sasuke's Blaze Release.
This upgraded version of Itachi's Fire Release granted him the ability to use black flames which could appear wherever the user looked upon (direct scope of vision), along with these flames being inextinguishable and reaching the highest of temperatures that Fire Release techniques can attain, hence granting them the unique ability to demagnetize Iron Sand once it burns on contact for an extended period of time meaning any section of constantly burning Iron Sand would eventually become impossible to manipulate.
-Genjutsu Capabilities
Itachi has been shown to be one of the greatest genjutsu users in the entire Naruto series. He was shown to be so proficient in Genjutsu that he could cast one just by pointing one finger at the opponent. Tsukuyomi was Itachi's most powerful genjutsu, it allowed the user to trap the opponent in a illusionary world which stretched out time to the point where mere seconds felt like days of torture.
Despite being Itachi's main style of combat it would be useless in this particular fight. Sasori's unique bodily structure (being a human puppet with a single living core) meant he lacked in having a physical brain for Genjutsu to act upon him.
Crow/Clone Related Techniques
Itachi's main style of fighting was shown to be through the use of clone whether for the intended purpose of ninjutsu or genjutsu. His ninjutsu involving crows mainly involved clones of himself which would often dissolve into crows and the use of genjutsu when flocks of crows would attack the opponent and when hit he himself dissolved into crows.
Itachi using Crows as a medium to use Shadow Clone Technique
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How Itachi could use this ability against Sasori: The use of clones and feints would more than benefit Itachi in this fight. Sasori's lethal fighting style which would immobolize and kill him with as little as one direct hit poses a serious risk, in all seriousness Itachi couldn't avoid Sasori's entire arsenal especially considering Iron Sand World Order and Iron Sand bullets. They're powerful speeds and sporadic nature dictate that these attacks are far too difficult to dodge nor anticipate effectively.
Using clones to take necessary hits from difficult techniques such as Iron Sand World Order would effectively eliminate the technique's overall usefulness.
-High Prowess Taijutsu
Itachi was also extremely proficient in the art of Taijutsu, completing the three main styles of combat (Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, Taijutsu). This could possibly assist him in this fight by trying to exploit Sasori's natural weakness as a puppet user. However if an Iron Sand Shield or Performance of 100 Puppets is employed, this would become nothing but a fruitless endeavor.
-Susanno' Techniques
This is a spectral being which was cast over the user of the Jutsu. Itachi was able to use Susanno in the appearance of a spectral knight made out of fire. With Itachi's two signature weapons he could do devastating damage, the Totsuka sword and the Yata Mirror.
How Itachi could use this ability against Sasori: Its utility in this fight would be unparalleled, materializing his chakra into an almost complete defense would defend against almost all of Sasori's Arsenal. The Yata Mirror would keep Sasori's Fire Release and any other human puppet ninjutsu he has at bay, the sword of Totsuka could simultaneously eradicate a large portion of Sasori's 100 Puppet army with as little as one swing. Without it, Sasori would be the undisputed winner of this match but with its addition to Itachi's arsenal, he becomes almost impervious to being poisoned.
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How Sasori can overcome Itachi in a 1 vs 1 Fight ?
Utility of Unique Human Puppet Body Structure
Sasori's unique body being a human puppet meant
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like ordinary shinobi, he didn't possess a brain and so gained granted immunity to Genjutsu as a rule. The transmission of Genjutsu from the user to his body would differ to anyone else because unlike Nin and Taijutsu, it is a form of mental attack where the victim's brain is affected and proper chakra flow is disrupted completely.
"Because genjutsu affects activity throughout the prosencephalon structure of the brain, humans, dogs and other species of mammal are therefore all affected by genjutsu; however, the kikaichū, like all insects, lack such a structure to their brains, and so do not even notice it: as Shino Aburame put it, insects are ruled almost solely by five powerful senses alone, which makes them immune to genjutsu and gives the Aburame clan an ability to detect it when nobody else can".
This quote further supports this. Some argue Sasori's core is essentially a brain but Genjutsu's inability to affect insects mean it doesn't affect all types. Insects granted immunity to Genjutsu falls into the same category of Sasori's core due to them being much simpler structures when compared to humans/animals whilst also lacking the necessary components of a human brain, which is the target organ of any said Genjutsu.
Sasori revealing his body is actually a Human Puppet
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Lacking in an nervous system also meant that Sasori felt no pain as the stimuli producing the said effect would be lost immediately. This would inevitably grant him the ability to tank Amaretsu and
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his host body without feeling agony or having frantic movements which would create an opening for Itachi. His lack for a need of breathing, due to not possessing a respiratory system would also mean he could encase himself in a complete Iron Sand Defense (unlike Gaara's) to provide an all round defense from Amaretsu which layers he could shed to remove the flames flawlessly.
Sasori's claiming that his Human Puppet Body felt no sensation of Pain
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However his body has been shown to possess many other advantages other than Genjutsu immunity and immunity to physical pain. His body seems to be made of a relatively powerful material which
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relatively well (compared to human shinobi) but still collapsed into a few pieces. His body can also apparently reassemble after being struck with a high magnitude attack and his core even allows for "body jumping" where he enters a completely new replica of his previous body. This was shown to be done so efficiently
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, as well as his core somehow acting of its own accord.
Sasori's Arsenal Counters Itachi's Fighting Style Exactly
Sasori's Iron Sand granted him the ability to expel magnetic chakra through the Third Kazkage Puppet's chest by acting in a similar way to a piston. This control of magnetic chakra granted effectively granted him with both immunity to all metallic weapons (namely Steel and Iron) but also the ability to manipulate and redirect their attacks by utilizing the magnetic forces of attraction and repulsion accordingly. Furthermore, the generated magnetic field of Sasori's iron sand would dictate that all metals would be drawn to and circulate around it for later use, giving him access to even more potential battle tactics and room to redirect some of his opponent's offensives especially weapon intensive users e.g. Kenjutsu users such as Darui, Samurai, Zabuza, Hidan, Hanzou and etc
Itachi's Shurkien Jutsu in which he used multiple shuriken in quick succession would be completely negated by this due to all of them being drawn to the magnetic field of the Iron Sand and not Sasori himself. He could then manipulate these said Kunai and redirect them back towards Itachi to cause his jutsu to backfire.
Chiyo claiming that Sasori was immune to Steel and Iron Weapons
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How Sasori counters Amaretsu: Sasori's entire arsenal also grants him multiple counters to Amaretsu despite it being uncounterable for most ninja. First and for most, his Iron Sand would act in a method similar to Gaara's Sand to shield against the black flames and then shed the layer by expelling it away from himself. Due to the magnetic control Sasori has he could potentially redirect the black flames back towards Itachi in an effort to re-use his own technique.
Furthermore, Sasori's ability to switch bodies at will along with not feeling Pain means even in a worse case scenario that a direct hit of Amaretsu lands on him, he would be able to efficiently escape the body and traverse into another one harmed, leaving Itachi's amaretsu to become nothing but a fruitless chakra taxing mechanism.
Gaara's Sand protecting him from Amaretsu by shielding and shedding
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Even then, wearing a thin layer of clothing which Sasori possesses or even his Akatsuki cloak could act as a potential shield to the flames giving him time to shed it and come away from the flames unharmed.
Sasori has also shown to start fights in his Hiruko Scorpion Armour which is both highly durable and extremely agile, if he were to be struck with Amaretsu in the early stages of the fight while this armour was active he would be able to escape the armour easily and subsequently achieve knowledge on one of Itachi's main trump cards which he could use create even more efficient counters to Amaretsu e.g. a
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-Versatility of Iron Sand in this Battle
Sasori has shown that through the use of the Third Kazekage's magnetic chakra he can use and re-use pre-existing Iron Sand from other techniques which left substantial quantities and clumps of it distributed along the terrain. With this ability he was effectively granted with an infinite supply of Iron Sand (due to reassembling individual grains with magnetism) as well as an added ability of manipulating it straight from the terrain to create multiple traps which could be activated almost instantaneously.
Sasori manipulating Pre-existing Iron Sand from the Terrain
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This ability also granted him with an devastating capability for destruction in the sense he could re-shape used attacks for multiple purposes meaning he
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Iron Sand World Order simply furthered this effect, once its full utility has been met
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allowing the sand to spread along the terrain. From this, Sasori could easily warp the terrain, create deadly traps at every turn but primarily assisting him in landing a direct attack against Itachi by manipulating his Iron Sand's sporadic nature to spike up both randomly and in multiple places (from beneath Itachi) to negate his Sharingan's ability for anticipation.
How Sasori Counters Susann'o: Susann'o, mainly the incomplete version both Sasuke and Itachi possess main weaknesses lie in the rib cage, the back and under the spectral being itself. From this, Sasori could easily manipulate any Iron Sand present on the terrain to his favour by either using it to ensnare Itachi catching him in an Iron Sand Prison or simply use the magnetic chakra to spike up suddenly and impale Itachi where he stands.
Sasori creating Spikes from Iron Sand present on the Terrain
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Due to this factor alone, Sasori could easily exploit the weakness of Susann'o by manipulating pre-existing Iron Sand to act as an automatic weapon to land a guaranteed hit against Itachi, expel Iron Sand from a high scale techniques such as Iron Sand World Order to keep Itachi away and then re-use the sand created to seep under Itachi's Susann'o, imprison him which would subsequently disarm Itachi's Susanno for good. Reactivation of it wouldn't be a viable option due to the
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.
Some may argue that through Susann'o, the iron sand's magnetic chakra would be negated meaning it would be useless against it. However this is just an illogical misconception. Nothing to date has been shown to stop magnetic forces directly, they would act without a problem regardless of being inside Susann'o or not.
2nd Possible Counter to Susann'o: Sasori's Iron Sand World Order has only shown
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. Whilst i agree his Iron Sand wouldn't penetrate/break Susann'o, the attack itself would lock down Itachi down, preventing him from moving forward or backwards. Simply maintaining the structure could act as a stall tactic to drain Itachi's chakra or use his Iron Sand to seep under it, hence capturing Itachi.
-Lethality of Sasori’s Fighting Style
Many fail to recognize that lethality is a two-sided thing, when considering combatants people only consider the possible offensives of the "obvious winner" without actually giving thought to what the other party could possibly do.
Sasori's arsenal is just as deadly if not more so than Itachi's. Itachi depends heavily on highly chakra intensive attacks to put him tiers above everyone else, whilst Sasori achieves this through
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with each and every of his attacks being drenched in poison to achieve this.
Earlier i mentioned that, "Amaretsu and Poison needles are fundamentally the same thing if each receives a direct hit". When considering this statement logically, it turns out to be undoubtedly true. Each of them achieve the same end result which is all that matters in a battle, the only difference being is Sasori takes this to a whole new level.
Inter-branching and Sporadic Nature of Iron Sand World Order
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With the addition of Iron Sand to his arsenal, he has seemingly constructed an entirely new fighting style with the inclusion of Iron Sand bullets which for most are impossible to dodge and Iron Sand World Order, which in my opinion surpasses even Amaretsu's capability for destruction.
Due to being a product of magnetism's repulsive forces,
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by anyone not even the user themselves. The forces interact in several ways, most likely producing a uniquely different shape every time effectively negating even the best of reflexes. Ordinary acts can be anticipated due to following some sort of linear pattern with each use but magnetism's sporadic nature completely negates this, at a simple turn an offensive can come out of nowhere.
Sasori's 100 Puppet army (all equipped with poisonous weapons) takes this to a whole another level, the looming amount of simultaneous offensives would even
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with. Considering each and every one of these puppet is capable of pseudo flight, they could act Itachi from every and all directions at 360 Degrees, seemingly overwhelming his capacity to not get scratched by even a single offensive from the army of puppets.
100 Puppet Army acting Simultaneously
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With an army of these puppets, Sasori could employ countless formations for them including: trapping Itachi in a hurricane formation where they circle him and move in to attack one group at a time whilst preventing him from escaping.
Another possible formation is a drilling one, where they come together in a spinning formation to attack all at once. Defensive formations can also be formed by grouping the puppets together as a shield to block Amaretsu's direct field of vision and then shedding any of the puppets which are caught by the inextinguishable black flames.
Who do you think would win this battle, Sasori or Itachi and why ? Let the Debates Begin.
I'll keep it simple, since my original argument was lost when my computer failed in life. So I had to rewrite everything. To keep it simpler for me, I'm not using any manga pages nor am I going too much into details. 1. Genjutsu
As long as Sasori and hear and see, his primary functions MUST be connected to his core, either via nerves or via chakra. And what do you think Itachi’s genjutsu affects? There’s no strong evidence that say the opposite, yet I have evidence that even though a person is dead/puppet/doesn’t have normal brain functions, they can still be caught in a genjutsu. That person is Pain…well 3 of his bodies actually. They got caught by the frogs, yet normally this shouldn’t have been possible.
2. Speed
I need to state the obvious here: Itachi is faster! Let’s use some ‘mix and match’ tactics:
A. Kakashi couldn’t see Itachi’s hand seals. Kakashi is a high level shinobi who was able to predict/read Zabuza’s movements as he was perfoming them (if you remember the hand seals part). Also to top it off, Itachi wasn’t even trying to kill Kakashi, yet his movements could not be read by a 3 tomoe sharingan.
B. Sakura was pretty much able to hold her own for a while with Sasori and definitely she could see his movements. And I’m pretty sure part II Sakura is still weaker than Zabuza.
From A and B => Itachi is faster than Sasori
3. The power of amaterasu
Amaterasu is the most underrated ninjutsu in the NU. Why? Because it was introduced as being “the strongest ninjutsu” and since then, it was very misused.
Here’s how strong amaterasu is:
Do you remember A? That loud raikage…yea that’s him. A is also one of the most durable shinobi in the manga. He’s very tanky and his specialty is taijutsu. BM Naruto had trouble hurting his father and I assure you he’s got the same genes, only perhaps he focuses more on speed and less on strength. To get to the point: it only took a few seconds for amaterasu to burn Raikage’s hand.
Itachi>Sasori. I’ll just end it here because I’m a bit bored now. I'll continue with the rest some other time.
Awesome thread, i've always thought Sasori > Itachi, now I have a good thread to link to.
I don't have time to read through everything so sorry if this has already come up. My question is can the sharingan actually read hidden weapons like poison gas? The perception of kunai and taijutsu I can understand because these things would come in at a set trajectory - witht the sharingan predicting that trajectory. But what about things like hidden puppet weapons? The are completely unpredictable since by their nature they are hidden - hence the trajectory and what not is hidden.
You raise an interesting point, i only touched on this lightly about the sporadic and random nature of magnetic forces especially in Iron Sand World Order.
For the hidden weapons, it really depends, this question should be directed at the Itachi fans xd
itachi wins 6 out of 5 lmao...There shouldnt even be an argument as to who is stronger. They are in totally different levels, itachi is like high kage and i dont even think sasori is even kage level at all.
Its alright, i know you regard Itachi very highly but you have to consider what the other character can do. Sakura and chiyo didn't beat him. 1) 3 Antidotes prepared before hand.
2) Full Knowledge on what he could do.
3) It was chiyo's best match up.
4) They died multiple times (How did chiyo survive if she didn't use the antidote when she was struck).
5) Sasori let the final strike hit him.
Its alright, i know you regard Itachi very highly but you have to consider what the other character can do. Sakura and chiyo didn't beat him. 1) 3 Antidotes prepared before hand.
2) Full Knowledge on what he could do.
3) It was chiyo's best match up.
4) They died multiple times (How did chiyo survive if she didn't use the antidote when she was struck).
5) Sasori let the final strike hit him.
okay dude but chiyo,sakura,and sasori wouldnt probably be able to beat itachi. His arsenal of jutsus are just way to big and powerful. Sasori cannot counter instant cast amaterasu's with that iron sand, amaterasu is way to fast, tsukuyomi might not work since sasori isnt even human so sasori has that advantage but in the end itachi still wins. If amaterasu fails to beat sasori itachi still has susanoo and with one hit, sasori is sealed that that whole thing about having to take out his heart doesnt matter with the totsuka blade. No jutsu of sasori can break susanoo especially when he has that shield. Very few people in the narutoverse can beat itachi and sasori is not one of them.
