(Negative Knight) Establishing why Sasori was one of the most OP Ninja (Debate)
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killerman82
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Negative Knight
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I'm glad this is the 1st you've seen, what you're seeing is a rare spectacle. Negative Knight is in his Prime!
Blaze Release
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Perhaps this particular vs thread needs to be put down one's and for all. For whatever reason people believe this fight would reach its climax in the sense that sasori would get the chance to use his 100 puppets. This is going by his feats against sakura and chiyo where he started in hiruko, before he used the 3rd kazekage then his 100 puppets. Sasori gets beaten one's he gets out of his hiruko and his weakness which is his heart is gaping for all to see, not that itachi wouldnt be able to figure this out when sasori is in hiruko due to the abilities then sharingan grants. Heck itachi walks up to sasori in susano and rams the totsuka sword through hiruko and through his heart GG 
Ive something else to get to, but ill return
Ive something else to get to, but ill return
Negative Knight
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and when you return, please "Bring it"Perhaps this particular vs thread needs to be put down one's and for all. For whatever reason people believe this fight would reach its climax in the sense that sasori would get the chance to use his 100 puppets. This is going by his feats against sakura and chiyo where he started in hiruko, before he used the 3rd kazekage then his 100 puppets. Sasori gets beaten one's he gets out of his hiruko and his weakness which is his heart is gaping for all to see, not that itachi wouldnt be able to figure this out when sasori is in hiruko due to the abilities then sharingan grants. Heck itachi walks up to sasori in susano and rams the totsuka sword through hiruko and through his heart GG
Ive something else to get to, but ill return
If i were to go by the same logic as you, Susann'o would be a last resort much like Sasori's 100 Puppets and only if its completely necessary e.g. if he was pressured to do so through Iron Sand World Order.
~Puppet Master~
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Blaze Release
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Though ill return id give brief reasonings rather than anything too long xd. Also what i said is different because sasori would be in hiruko therefore his heart isnt visible, meaning he cannot control his 100 puppets in hiruko form. What i find interesting is that you never mentioned a puppeter's user's weakness or maybe you did. Ill admit i havent read the whole thread, something that one's hirkuo has been destroyed sasori regains and he himself knows this and that is why he created hiruko in the first place.and when you return, please "Bring it"
If i were to go by the same logic as you, Susann'o would be a last resort much like Sasori's 100 Puppets and only if its completely necessary e.g. if he was pressured to do so through Iron Sand World Order.
A guide to a puppter's weakness;
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A puppters weakers is cqc and once's sasori's hirkuo form gets distroyed he is going up against one of the greatest cqc in the series. Good luck;
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Prefontaine
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*Cracks Knuckles* Let's begin.
To start I just want to say that I believe that Sasori and Itachi are very evenly matched and that Sasori is immensely strong, but for the sake of being a devils advocate I will choose to defend Itachi's position.
Sasori's main fighting style is long-range and he hopes to overwhelm you with his techniques, whether that be 100 puppets or iron sand etc, that's the main goal. On the other side Itachi seems to be a mid to short-range fighter who uses feints etc to draw his opponent off-guard and then defeat him that way (he is an innate pacifist). Now this is not to say that either one can not switch up fighting styles, it's just their preferred. As Kage tier shinobi they can adjust to the situation.
It seems that your main points as to why Sasori could beat Itachi is his use of the 3rd Kazekage and his iron sand/magnet release and his 100 puppets with poisoned weapons. Also a major part of Itachi's arsenal is apparently useless because Sasori cannot be affected by genjutsu. That is all well and good except:
Iron Sand/Magnet Release:
This is pretty much useless against Itachi and here's why; Itachi is a fire style user. He hails from the Uchiha clan who is naturally proficient at fire techniques and he was regarded as one of the best in the clan ever. (Sasuke could create the Great Fireball at age 5 but his father said Itachi was much better etc etc) Itachi would not struggle with using fire techniques throughout the whole fight because of this. Why is this important? Because, fire is what would demagnetize all of the kazekage's manipulation. We know that his techniques are a nice bright orange color, this equates to a temperature of roughly 1,100C. Iron loses its magnetic properties at 770C. So essentially anything that involves Magnetism/Magnetic release/Iron sand is irrelevant. Itachi does not even need to resort to Amaterasu because Great Fireball and Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson are more than sufficient (and his stamina/chakra level does not really come into play yet because he is so proficient at fire release and is not using his mangekyo).
Puppet techniques/Poison:
I believe that Itachi's intelligence, ability to use high level water and fire techniques and the use of his crow and shadow clones would be able to dodge and escape Sasori's mass attacks. BUT even if that is not enough, Itachi could resort to using Amaterasu to destroy most of the puppets/block their attacks or even go so far as to activate Susanoo and protect himself that way, as I don't think the puppet forces are enough to penetrate Susanoo.
Sasori being unaffected by Genjutsu:
Now this is obviously debatable but here are some reasons why Sasori COULD be affected by genjutsu, thus ending the fight even quicker through the use of Tsukuyomi or Izanami. **I fully acknowledge that he could not have a brain etc etc. Sasori is a HUMAN puppet and a being in the naruto universe. In order to fight you Have to have the senses working in order to see, hear, feel, etc. There has to be some kind of input and processing unit that allows him to live breath and fight. Thus, the there has to be some kind of chakra network that could be disrupted. Let's say that he doesn't have real eyes so he can't be put under by ocular jutsu, Itachi could still trap him in Izanami (which affects the five senses, and affected Kabuto despite his attempts to not be affected by the sharingan) so he could force him to lose the fight that way. This might be seen as a cop out win for Itachi, but even without this Itachi could still beat Sasori.
And lastly, another way that Itachi could defeat Sasori is by finally using Susanno and utilizing the Sword of Totsuka (which is an ethereal sword) to extend the long distance that could seperate them and seal Sasori in the "genjutsu-like 'world of drunken dreams' for all eternity" like what happened to Orochimaru and Nagato. If Itachi were to resort to using the three Mangekyo powers then it is hardly possible to see how Sasori could win. His intelligence, speed, array of jutsu and over all prowess gives him the win in this 1v1 battle.
This is a fantastic thread and depicts both Sasori and Itachi very well and shows why Sasori should not be underrated by any means, but to be honest Itachi is just a bad match-up for Sasori. Props Negative Knight and Co. Keep up the good work
To start I just want to say that I believe that Sasori and Itachi are very evenly matched and that Sasori is immensely strong, but for the sake of being a devils advocate I will choose to defend Itachi's position.
Sasori's main fighting style is long-range and he hopes to overwhelm you with his techniques, whether that be 100 puppets or iron sand etc, that's the main goal. On the other side Itachi seems to be a mid to short-range fighter who uses feints etc to draw his opponent off-guard and then defeat him that way (he is an innate pacifist). Now this is not to say that either one can not switch up fighting styles, it's just their preferred. As Kage tier shinobi they can adjust to the situation.
It seems that your main points as to why Sasori could beat Itachi is his use of the 3rd Kazekage and his iron sand/magnet release and his 100 puppets with poisoned weapons. Also a major part of Itachi's arsenal is apparently useless because Sasori cannot be affected by genjutsu. That is all well and good except:
Iron Sand/Magnet Release:
This is pretty much useless against Itachi and here's why; Itachi is a fire style user. He hails from the Uchiha clan who is naturally proficient at fire techniques and he was regarded as one of the best in the clan ever. (Sasuke could create the Great Fireball at age 5 but his father said Itachi was much better etc etc) Itachi would not struggle with using fire techniques throughout the whole fight because of this. Why is this important? Because, fire is what would demagnetize all of the kazekage's manipulation. We know that his techniques are a nice bright orange color, this equates to a temperature of roughly 1,100C. Iron loses its magnetic properties at 770C. So essentially anything that involves Magnetism/Magnetic release/Iron sand is irrelevant. Itachi does not even need to resort to Amaterasu because Great Fireball and Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson are more than sufficient (and his stamina/chakra level does not really come into play yet because he is so proficient at fire release and is not using his mangekyo).
Puppet techniques/Poison:
I believe that Itachi's intelligence, ability to use high level water and fire techniques and the use of his crow and shadow clones would be able to dodge and escape Sasori's mass attacks. BUT even if that is not enough, Itachi could resort to using Amaterasu to destroy most of the puppets/block their attacks or even go so far as to activate Susanoo and protect himself that way, as I don't think the puppet forces are enough to penetrate Susanoo.
Sasori being unaffected by Genjutsu:
Now this is obviously debatable but here are some reasons why Sasori COULD be affected by genjutsu, thus ending the fight even quicker through the use of Tsukuyomi or Izanami. **I fully acknowledge that he could not have a brain etc etc. Sasori is a HUMAN puppet and a being in the naruto universe. In order to fight you Have to have the senses working in order to see, hear, feel, etc. There has to be some kind of input and processing unit that allows him to live breath and fight. Thus, the there has to be some kind of chakra network that could be disrupted. Let's say that he doesn't have real eyes so he can't be put under by ocular jutsu, Itachi could still trap him in Izanami (which affects the five senses, and affected Kabuto despite his attempts to not be affected by the sharingan) so he could force him to lose the fight that way. This might be seen as a cop out win for Itachi, but even without this Itachi could still beat Sasori.
And lastly, another way that Itachi could defeat Sasori is by finally using Susanno and utilizing the Sword of Totsuka (which is an ethereal sword) to extend the long distance that could seperate them and seal Sasori in the "genjutsu-like 'world of drunken dreams' for all eternity" like what happened to Orochimaru and Nagato. If Itachi were to resort to using the three Mangekyo powers then it is hardly possible to see how Sasori could win. His intelligence, speed, array of jutsu and over all prowess gives him the win in this 1v1 battle.
This is a fantastic thread and depicts both Sasori and Itachi very well and shows why Sasori should not be underrated by any means, but to be honest Itachi is just a bad match-up for Sasori. Props Negative Knight and Co. Keep up the good work
New knight48
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lol negative knight i usually always support your threads but damn dude you just had to go against itachi... im sorry to tell you that itachi probably doesnt even need to use MS to beat sasori, itachi is in such a higher level, its weird how you even compare sasori to itachi. Dude sakura and a 100 year old granny beat him, and ur actually considering he can beat itachi. Do you realize itachi can probably solo deidara AND sasori. Itachi's intelligence alone can win him this battle. If he used susanoo it would be overkill. Do not underestimate Itachi Uchiha
New knight48
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dude i bet even sasori himself would admit itachi would beat him. Itachi is the third strongest in akatsuki, and sasori probably isnt even the 6th... Obito>Nagato>Itachi>Kisame>Kakuzu>Deidara>Konan(yes i think even konan>sasori lmao)>Sasori> Hidan>Zetsu
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Okumura Rin
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Yes! About time someone has realised Sasori's amazing potential. He can beat almost any opponent, hands down.
This would be an amazing fight.
This would be an amazing fight.
Naruto king of Shinobi
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Itachi would win, he's smarter, faster(wouldn't get hit due to his speed plus sharigan perception), and straight up has more powerful techniques. Itachi was toying with both orochimaru and deidara when they tried fighting itachi, even kisame knew that itachi was stronger than him. Itachi is just on a higher level than most strong shinobi
i am truly not sure if i should think that sasori is immune to genjutsu because of lack of brain or not....maybe his organs are somehow infused within that heart of his or sth like that....and that causes him to hear and see...i simply dont have a motivation to fully debate about this fight because there isnt any 100% proof that itachi`s tsukuyomi doesnt KO sasori...U_U if you can fully come around that then maybe i will start giving props to sasori...xd and looking for other ways itachi can beat him
New knight48
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dude amaterasu is instant... the reasons gaara's sand defended again sasukes amaterasu because sasuke was using it as a shield and also as a trap so the raikage hit it. But those instant cast amaterasus are way too fast to defend your self against with the sand. But besides thats not the point itachi doesnt even need to use amaterasu. One hit from susanoo and sasori is done... ONE HIT and on top of that sasori cant get itachi inside susanoo, he cant break it. Itachi is a genius and even if all these things fail(which i doubt) im pretty sure he can come up with a strategy. I am pretty sure Masashi Kishimoto made itachi stronger. I believe they are in totally different leagues. I dont even think Sasori is kage level
Forbidden Technique
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Skimmed through it because i absolutely detest reading, but very nice thread.
Now on the fight.
I think a major factor for Itachi in this fight, is how instant Amaterasu is. The amount of time it takes for Sasori to summon a puppet and use its abilities (3rd Kazekage for example) is far too long compared to Amaterasu. So i would like to know, how you think Sasori will be able to summon the 3rd Kazekage and activate its iron sand (Which takes more then a few seconds) before Amaterasu instantly hits either one of them.
Even if he manages to get iron sand to activate, Sasori himself along with the 3rd Kazekage are staying still. Yes it will be difficult to avoid the iron sand, but really all it takes is a glance by Itachi to activate Amaterasu, turning his puppet into a crisp.
Now as far as the 100 puppets. I believe Susanoo can handle it. As you mentioned, one swipe by Totsuka will cut through a huge number of chakra threads, rendering a big majority of his puppets useless for the time being. Which leaves Sasori open to an attack, such as Yasaka Magatama.
Something i didn't see you mention in itachis abilities, correct me if im wrong, is Yasaka Magatama. We haven't exactly seen how fast it is, but i can imagine it having very similar amount of force as Chiyo's Lion Closing Roar.
Now on the fight.
I think a major factor for Itachi in this fight, is how instant Amaterasu is. The amount of time it takes for Sasori to summon a puppet and use its abilities (3rd Kazekage for example) is far too long compared to Amaterasu. So i would like to know, how you think Sasori will be able to summon the 3rd Kazekage and activate its iron sand (Which takes more then a few seconds) before Amaterasu instantly hits either one of them.
Even if he manages to get iron sand to activate, Sasori himself along with the 3rd Kazekage are staying still. Yes it will be difficult to avoid the iron sand, but really all it takes is a glance by Itachi to activate Amaterasu, turning his puppet into a crisp.
Now as far as the 100 puppets. I believe Susanoo can handle it. As you mentioned, one swipe by Totsuka will cut through a huge number of chakra threads, rendering a big majority of his puppets useless for the time being. Which leaves Sasori open to an attack, such as Yasaka Magatama.
Something i didn't see you mention in itachis abilities, correct me if im wrong, is Yasaka Magatama. We haven't exactly seen how fast it is, but i can imagine it having very similar amount of force as Chiyo's Lion Closing Roar.
Awesome thread, i've always thought Sasori > Itachi, now I have a good thread to link to.
I don't have time to read through everything so sorry if this has already come up. My question is can the sharingan actually read hidden weapons like poison gas? The perception of kunai and taijutsu I can understand because these things would come in at a set trajectory - witht the sharingan predicting that trajectory. But what about things like hidden puppet weapons? The are completely unpredictable since by their nature they are hidden - hence the trajectory and what not is hidden.
I don't have time to read through everything so sorry if this has already come up. My question is can the sharingan actually read hidden weapons like poison gas? The perception of kunai and taijutsu I can understand because these things would come in at a set trajectory - witht the sharingan predicting that trajectory. But what about things like hidden puppet weapons? The are completely unpredictable since by their nature they are hidden - hence the trajectory and what not is hidden.
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King Of Pop
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this is why pple say itachi is overated. u didnt counter the op nor state WHY itachi would win, rather you just praise itachi and claim he would win because hes portrayed as higher than sasori. sakura and chiyo were the perfect team to fight sasori seein as chiyo is a fellow puppeteer and sakura prepared antidotes to counter sasoris poisons so that logic wont work because naruto is about matchups. the op actually gave good counters to itachis techniques(if u read d thread). the least u can do is try and counter his arguments instead of using bias. "itachi probably doesnt even need ms to beat sasori" . really?
What is going on here? I understand that Sasori is underrated, as I'm one of the people who support him, but this is too much.
NK has presented Sasori's side very thoroughly, but I don't see you taking into consideration Itachi's point of view as well. It's a bit late here and I'm busy atm, but I will return and properly defend Itachi... I see there's way too many people who simply agree with you because you use colors and such in your threads
NK has presented Sasori's side very thoroughly, but I don't see you taking into consideration Itachi's point of view as well. It's a bit late here and I'm busy atm, but I will return and properly defend Itachi... I see there's way too many people who simply agree with you because you use colors and such in your threads
Negative Knight
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Oh, how i hate you Anub xdWhat is going on here? I understand that Sasori is underrated, as I'm one of the people who support him, but this is too much.
NK has presented Sasori's side very thoroughly, but I don't see you taking into consideration Itachi's point of view as well. It's a bit late here and I'm busy atm, but I will return and properly defend Itachi... I see there's way too many people who simply agree with you because you use colors and such in your threads
Alright when i get on tomorrow, i'll debate with you, Blaze and Prefotatine.
XxTwin BladexX
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