(Negative Knight) Establishing why Sasori was one of the most OP Ninja (Debate)

[KGB Kakuzu]

I would have to agree. Sasori is never given the credit he deserves...simply because he had to fight literally the ONLY team who could counter his mass poison barrages...Chiyo who knew the techniques and Sakura who had an antidote. Itachi doesn't have the stamina to continue to constantly dodge the attacks...this forces him to either deploy Susanoo or immediately go with Amaterasu.

Sasori's first risk is Amaterasu, if the hit lands on the heart. The fact that Sasuke could dodge them after a decent right leads me to believe Sasori who is pain and wear intolerent would have no problem from keepimg his head AT THE LEAST from being hit.

Sasori's second risk is Susanoo. Itachi's Tata mirror means that no direct offensive assault will work meaning Sasori has to deal with it in a separate manner. His best bet is to either find a way to throw him out of Susanoo's defense like Gaara did to Madara or trap him in order to wear out Itachi. He is oddly immune to the totsuka blade because he is unique in existing as a cylindrical heart. His body getting hit simply means he transfers. His counters are exactly as you mentioned.

I give Sasori the advantage as Itachi has to find a way with his limited stamina to not get hit, and find a way for his trump cards to capture Sasori.

 

[10023213]

Imo itachi wins but i'm not that good with debating for characters like sasori deidara or itachi so i don't really know how to support my decision

 

[Bogard]

Hiruko is actually a highly durable armour, simply because it was destroyed by Sakura's full powered punch doesn't mean it could be taken down with Shuriken and Taijutsu. I feel some sort of direct hit with a Fire Ball, an Exploding clone or even Amaretsu would be needed to render it useless.

I think it's not strategically wise for Sasori to start a fight against Itachi with Hiruko. When he is in Hiruko, his speed, reflexes and body movement is relatively slow, so just imagine if he gets flamed by Amaterasu. How does it go out now? If he wants to escape, he would most likely be hurt by the flames on Hiruko which could spread on his puppet body and at worst, it could even touch his vital point

Like you said Rationing his MS Techs is what he needs to do, a 2nd reactivation of Susann'o or excessive Amaretsu spam is not an option, he would surely lose if this were the case. If Itachi does leave his Susann'o then he will be dealt with using Sasori's 100 Puppets, the only reason Itachi can counter that technique is through his spectral armour, but without it, it becomes a futile endeavor to combat them.

Problem is that with just one Amaterasu, he has shown to be able to burn half a forest and Sasuke(who is faster than Sasori) only escaped barely with Orochimaru's oral rebirth. So Itachi even with limited Amaterasu could possibly light up every puppets(Sasori included) who stays in his sight. Now i agree with you when you say that leaving Susanoo is not an option. If Sasori really starts with Sandaime Kazekage(like i think he will), Itachi would be in danger everytime, but on the other side, Susanoo attacks are really difficult to dodge and a almost static opponent like Sasori would have difficulties. Itachi is not the type of ninja to miss openings(just look what happened to Nagato)

With Yasaka no magatama, Sasori would most likely have to switch bodies and if he does that, it favors Itachi a lot. Chiyo was able to detect when Sasori switched bodies, so a Sharingan user who can predict attacks is more likely to notice such things. In the new body, Sasori has not shown to be able to continue to control his puppets. That's why i've said it will favour Itachi in this case.

Eventhough Itachi can't use MS techniques very long, i think he has all what it takes to deal with Sasori even before runing out of stamina

 

[Negative Knight]

I think it's not strategically wise for Sasori to start a fight against Itachi with Hiruko. When he is in Hiruko, his speed, reflexes and body movement is relatively slow, so just imagine if he gets flamed by Amaterasu. How does it go out now? If he wants to escape, he would most likely be hurt by the flames on Hiruko which could spread on his puppet body and at worst, it could even touch his vital point

Problem is that with just one Amaterasu, he has shown to be able to burn half a forest and Sasuke(who is faster than Sasori) only escaped barely with Orochimaru's oral rebirth. So Itachi even with limited Amaterasu could possibly light up every puppets(Sasori included) who stays in his sight. Now i agree with you when you say that leaving Susanoo is not an option. If Sasori really starts with Sandaime Kazekage(like i think he will), Itachi would be in danger everytime, but on the other side, Susanoo attacks are really difficult to dodge and a almost static opponent like Sasori would have difficulties. Itachi is not the type of ninja to miss openings(just look what happened to Nagato)

With Yasaka no magatama, Sasori would most likely have to switch bodies and if he does that, it favors Itachi a lot. Chiyo was able to detect when Sasori switched bodies, so a Sharingan user who can predict attacks is more likely to notice such things. In the new body, Sasori has not shown to be able to continue to control his puppets. That's why i've said it will favour Itachi in this case.

Eventhough Itachi can't use MS techniques very long, i think he has all what it takes to deal with Sasori even before runing out of stamina

I actually believe the opposite about starting in Hiruko, he would most likely use it as a starting point and then proceed to see if he's outclassed by Itachi. If Amaretsu was needed used on the armour, he could escape immediately and gain knowledge on one of Itachi's trump cards right off that bat. If you look at Uzumaki16's previous post (up there), you'll clearly see the importance of knowledge.

As for Susann'o its a difficult thing. If we notice Itachi's uses of it, we see a common pattern of him only using it as a last resort if all else fails. He would probably be pressured by Iron Sand World Order (as deadly as Kirin) to use it but subsequently become trapped in an interbranching prison where he would be unable to move, swing his blade or use Amaretsu (the iron sand blocks the direct scope of vision).

To remain in Susann'o is a death sentence, to leave it would mean he would become susceptible to the Iron Sand spread along the terrain from the previous tech or even Sasori bring out his Performance of 100 Puppets.

Yasaka no magatama is also countered by this, if you really analyze the structure of Iron Sand World Order once fully completed its constructed in such a way attacks/projectiles have almost no chance of reaching the other side due to hitting into obstacles along the way which stop them altogether or gradually dissipate their force.

Do you honestly believe Itachi could hold out against the army ? If so, i'm curious as to know why.

 

[Danielgf04]

great thread men xd
now i'm just going to finish reading it

EDIT: it gets better in the end nice one bro xd

 

[Bogard]

I actually believe the opposite about starting in Hiruko, he would most likely use it as a starting point and then proceed to see if he's outclassed by Itachi. If Amaretsu was needed used on the armour, he could escape immediately and gain knowledge on one of Itachi's trump cards right off that bat. If you look at Uzumaki16's previous post (up there), you'll clearly see the importance of knowledge.

As for Susann'o its a difficult thing. If we notice Itachi's uses of it, we see a common pattern of him only using it as a last resort if all else fails. He would probably be pressured by Iron Sand World Order (as deadly as Kirin) to use it but subsequently become trapped in an interbranching prison where he would be unable to move, swing his blade or use Amaretsu (the iron sand blocks the direct scope of vision).

To remain in Susann'o is a death sentence, to leave it would mean he would become susceptible to the Iron Sand spread along the terrain from the previous tech or even Sasori bring out his Performance of 100 Puppets.

Yasaka no magatama is also countered by this, if you really analyze the structure of Iron Sand World Order once fully completed its constructed in such a way attacks/projectiles have almost no chance of reaching the other side due to hitting into obstacles along the way which stop them altogether or gradually dissipate their force.

Do you honestly believe Itachi could hold out against the army ? If so, i'm curious as to know why.

Not really. If you look closely at what i'm saying, i'm not talking about Itachi dealing with that army of puppets. He can defeat some of them to find an opening, but he definitely can't deal with all of them even with Susanoo. But there is not the real problem. The problem is Itachi's mindset. Knowing how Itachi usually fights, i see him more likely trying to deal with Sasori's main body directly. I think that Itachi is not the type of ninja who would waste time fighting those puppets if he finds and opportunity to beat the one who control them, because without Sasori, there is no puppets anymore. This is what i'm talking about:

Spoiler

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When they were outnumbered, Chiyo and Sakura thought about dealing with Sasori's main body directly. If it was Itachi i'm sure he would have think about something like this quicker. With Susanoo and especially the Yata mirror, he can definitely manage to defend against most assault started by Sasori with his puppets, at least i think he can to some extent and with totsuka sword, he could try to destroy everything on his way like this for example:

Spoiler

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Not saying it will be easy, but he has the weapon to find his way through all those puppets and deal with Sasori directly. I'm not sure if his Susanoo(yata mirror especially) could defend against iron sand though. Sure with that, Sasori has some ways to put Itachi in difficulties

But you have some point concerning the chakra threads i just re-read the Sasori's fight and it seems you're right. It's definitely possible. Hum, if it's the case, then it means that Sasori could strategically use that to surprise Itachi from behind with an apparently dead puppet. Yeah why not, i must admit i didn't thought about it. Maybe i should re-read that chapter again

 

[GiantShuriken]

Itachi shoves totsuka blade into Sasori's heart.

 

[Negative Knight]

Not really. If you look closely at what i'm saying, i'm talking about Itachi dealing with that army of puppets. He can defeat some of them to find an opening, but he definitely can't deal with all of them even with Susanoo. But there is not the real problem. The problem is Itachi's mindset. Knowing how Itachi usually fights, i see him more likely trying to deal with Sasori's main body directly. I think that Itachi is not the type of ninja who would waste time fighting those puppets if he finds and opportunity to beat the one who control them, because without Sasori, there is no puppets anymore. This is what i'm talking about:

Spoiler

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When they were outnumbered, Chiyo and Sakura thought about dealing with Sasori's main body directly. If it was Itachi i'm sure he would have think about something like this quicker. With Susanoo and especially the Yata mirror, he can definitely manage to defend against most assault started by Sasori with his puppets, at least i think he can to some extent and with totsuka sword, he could try to destroy everything on his way like this for example:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

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Not saying it will be easy, but he has the weapon to find his way through all those puppets and deal with Sasori directly. I'm not sure if his Susanoo(yata mirror especially) could defend against iron sand though. Sure with that, Sasori has some ways to put Itachi in difficulties

But you have some point concerning the chakra threads i just re-read the Sasori's fight and it seems you're right. It's definitely possible. Hum, if it's the case, then it means that Sasori could strategically use that to surprise Itachi from behind with an apparently dead puppet. Yeah why not, i must admit i didn't thought about it. Maybe i should re-read that chapter again

Yeah it was a really interesting fight to re-read, definitely one of the good ones xd.

In all honestly i feel Susann'o defeats the 100 Puppet Army without difficulty unless Sasori reconnects the strings to them. The real problem is Iron Sand World Order.

How would Itachi counter being trapped in an interbranching prison (assuming he activates Susann'o so he doesn't receive an inevitable scratch) ?

If this were the case, it would become impossible to deal with Sasori directly, he would eventually run out of chakra to maintain Susann'o without collapsing, so is it a better alternative to drop it all together ?

Itachi shoves totsuka blade into Sasori's heart.

Sure...Whatever you say... :|

 

[Rayder]

Great thread as usual.
Nice analysis and this fight is perfect for Sasori as he is probably one of the few characters that before the fight has even started are able to counter Itachi. I still think that as a whole Itachi is the superior ninja and he could beat ninja that Sasori can't but because Sasori is the perfect match-up for him he could win.

The outcome depends on knowledge.

If its no knowledge then Itachi wins.
If its manga knowledge or full knowledge then Sasori has an excellent chance.

I'll explain.

In a no-knowledge battle, Itachi would be the first to gain knowledge since his Sharingan will see through Hiruko to Sasori's body and will see that chakra only exists in his core then make that his target. Sasori would be oblivious of Amaterasu. Hiruko's weapons will be countered by the Sharingan's clarity of vision, Itachi's ability to deflect them with shuriken and blasting them away with fire techniques. He can get close and destroy the puppet with a fire tech.

Amaterasu can then take care of the Thired Kazekage and Sasori before they know what hit them.

In a manga knowledge battle, Sasori has a slight edge. Knowledge of Amaterasu seems to be common amongst the Akatsukisince Deidara commented that Kakashi's Kamui was a dojutsu on Itachi's level meaning he knew about the Mangekyo. Also, Zetsu wanted to 'see Amaterasu' which was why he wanted to see Itachi Vs Sasuke. Nagato knew about the flames and warned Bee and Naruto of it, Orochimaru must have told Sasuke which was why Sasuke prepared Orochimaru's substitution tech for it.
Amaterasu seems to be well known so Sasori could immediately coat himself and the Third with Iron Sand when Hiruko is destroyed. This means Itachi will have to use Susanoo. Sheilding Totsuka and Yasaka Mangatam with large volumes of Iron Sand will allow Sasori outlast. Itachi thoughsince Totsuka is said to be a Kusanagi variant, it should have Kusanagi's lengthening and cutting power. Kusanagi is said to be able to cut through nearly anything so it could pierce through Iron Sand and hit Sasori's chest with Sharingan aiming though Sasori could simply dodge. Sasori has an excellent chance.

The sharingan wouldn't be able to predict Sasori's movements or attacks because the lack of muscles in his body.

 

[Shikamaru1994]

It would be an amazing battle. I must go with itachi for this

 

[GiantShuriken]

Yeah it was a really interesting fight to re-read, definitely one of the good ones xd.

In all honestly i feel Susann'o defeats the 100 Puppet Army without difficulty unless Sasori reconnects the strings to them. The real problem is Iron Sand World Order.

How would Itachi counter being trapped in an interbranching prison (assuming he activates Susann'o so he doesn't receive an inevitable scratch) ?

If this were the case, it would become impossible to deal with Sasori directly, he would eventually run out of chakra to maintain Susann'o without collapsing, so is it a better alternative to drop it all together ?




Sure...Whatever you say... :|

You do realize Itachi caught Sharingan Sasuke's chidori, and this is after Sasuke underwent training to be as fast as unweighted Lee. Itachi speed blitzes to Sasori and totsuka blades his heart. Fight over. Thanks for coming.

 

[Shodaime Swagkage]

I like this thread but since Sasori was beaten by Sakura with the help of a frail old lady, nobody takes him seriously.

 

[Maderator]

Great thread man... its a tough match up but i think you got it right.

 

[yellowxflash]

Is it the case Chiyo was the only one that could defeat sasori due to knowledge ect, meaning he is op and losing to "plot"; or is it the case sasori has been overrated and was beaten because he isn't that good. Thing is we will never know because we can't judge him from one fight alone and how he fairs against other opponents, but good points. I would say itachi wins it makes sense to me

 

[thegame]

Sasori would win U_U but that doesn't change the fact that certain other opponents would smash sasori, but Itachi would stand a better chance against those, since he would have his superior use of genjutsu.

The fact that Sasori abducted the 3rd kazekage when he was less than 10 also beats Itachis talent.. But Sasori was a bit like Deidara. Too obsessed with himself, thinking he couldn't be beaten and that his art was ultimate, when this wasn't true. He later realized as he release his edo tensei form.

 

[Negative Knight]

Sasori would win U_U but that doesn't change the fact that certain other opponents would smash sasori, but Itachi would stand a better chance against those, since he would have his superior use of genjutsu.

The fact that Sasori abducted the 3rd kazekage when he was less than 10 also beats Itachis talent.. But Sasori was a bit like Deidara. Too obsessed with himself, thinking he couldn't be beaten and that his art was ultimate, when this wasn't true. He later realized as he release his edo tensei form.

Very true, but lmao at capturing the 3rd Kazekage at 10 years old :rofl:

 

[Rayder]

You do realize Itachi caught Sharingan Sasuke's chidori, and this is after Sasuke underwent training to be as fast as unweighted Lee. Itachi speed blitzes to Sasori and totsuka blades his heart. Fight over. Thanks for coming.

And Itachi would just be running into Hiruko's poisoned tail. Itachi can't risk moving about to much because of Sasori's assault of poisonous attacks and weapons. Therefore his best bet is too remain stationary and use Susanoo which because of his low stamina he would not be able to hold up for long.

 

[Great Sage of Uchiha]

Great job dude, + rep but i think you forgot to say that Sasori as has some uchiha's as puppets lol I mean come on the sheer fact that the puppets can keep their KKG and such pretty much makes them almost as bad as an edo

 

[lesley]

i like this, you actually make underrated characters come back to life. sasori actually stands a chance against itachi, though i can't say who wins, a real battle could always go either way, but in theory, i would say itachi normally but sasori is immune to genjutsu, so sasori takes this

 

[sasoripuppet]

wow this is extremely good i read it all and it makes all the itachi fans mad XD sasori is the best and all the explanation ARE logical.. good job SASORI FTW