Its really true that Sasori is OP. Potentially he's in top 15. People underrate Sasori because of the fact that he lost to Chiyo and Sakura. People need to realize that the Chiyo and Sakura combo was the "perfect" counter for Sasori.
i skimmed through it.. and you came up with some good points. here is my explanation
i believe sasori cant be affected by genjutsu since he dont have any of the 5 senses and a nervous system to be affected. so there goes the genjutsu aspect.
sasori doesnt have muscle or a muscular system, so itachi cannot use the sharingan to predict his moves like sasuke did naruto.
also
sasori can switch puppet bodys and has infinite stamina in a sense, so he never tires.
he can fight you with a hundred puppets, poison the air around you, poison everything he has. and with one scratch or inhale of the poison your done for. period!
with the 3rd kazekage puppet he could use the sand to protect him from all moves itachi does. like gaara
amateratsu will be a big waste considering he would just switch puppet bodies. so that would waste itachis chakra plus itachi is sick so keep in mind that.
susanoo would be the only problem. but sasori fights from a distance so it really want be a big problem. also i think what you said would work aswell.
all in all i say it could got sasoris way if itachi can last and sasori also had 298 pupets im sure he had many more powerful ones just didnt bother using them. so ima have to go with sasori.
Itachi still had one live part in his puppet body- his heart and soul was there. And if the soul was there it could be trapped in Totsuka... Though it's a tough one. Because Sasori's poison was dangerous. Chhiyo+Sakura combo was the best matchup for sasori.
this can really go either way.. also watch out for ppl saying "Sasori already lost to Sakura and Chiyo so he will lose to Itachi aswell"
You should also add the fact that Itachi cannot stay in susanoo for long period at all! And he isnt the type to spam it or bring it out early. He only uses it if necessary, he wouldnt want to show his opponent (of that lv) his trump card asap (he isnt a noob like sasuke).
Only the noobs think and compare (with out relizing it) itachi's fighting style to sasuke. smh
Very well thought out and detailed thread, good stuff.
Firstly, Gaara used his sand to defend against Enton, not Amaterasu. Even if Satetsu shows properties which would allow it to withstand the heat of the black flames, it all essentially boils down to whether or not Sasori can manipulate the iron sand fast enough in order to defend against a jutsu which is near instant at close range [
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]. I don't believe it can. There's also the possibility that Itachi can simply eradicate Sasori's 'heart' with an accurate dose of Amaterasu - we have to consider that the Sharingan's ocular powers would allow Itachi to see the chakra being concentrated on that particular point in Sasori's body. Restricting Itachi's line of sight by using Hyakki no Sōen would be his best bet at overcoming this problem [
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], but then he's faced with the task of penetrating Susano'o or, at the very least, outlasting it. That's where I think Sasori's best bet at victory lies - winning the battle of attrition and taking advantage of Itachi's health issues. If he's able to do so, he can snatch an unlikely victory with his slew of poison laced offensive techniques.
I think Susano'o is pretty useless, Sasori fights long-range with his puppets and Itachi can't move while Susano'o is up. As far as i know Sword of Totsuka doesn't really have a long range does it?
Sasori of the Iron Sand vs Itachi of the Sharingan
This is the 2nd Installment in my new variation Vs Threads which will establish many common misconceptions in the ranking of Akatsuki members.
A Special Thanks to
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for assisting me in this thread and
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for helping out with presentation and such.
This is a thread highlighting the strength of Sasori, his overlooked abilities and essentially it has no bias but a purpose, and is therefore showing why either side could win. Simply you just ignore the title as I wrote it that way for people to recognize it was one of my threads, however the thread will concentrate more on the underdog in this battle to explain why this is a fair match up.
The Human Puppet
Sasori's Abilities
Iron Sand Kekkei Genkai
Sasori's favourite and most commonly used puppet was his Third Kazekage one, it managed retain its one of a kind Magnet Release ability used to manipulate Iron Sand hence granting Sasori free manipulation of this deadly weapon.
How Sasori could use this ability against Itachi: This would be Sasori's greatest weapon in this fight, his access to an infinite armoury by creating any weapon from the iron sand which would serve several purposes in countering Itachi's unique fighting style, namely Susanno'o. It could also be used as a method of creating an Iron Armour Defense similar to that of Gaara's to prevent Itachi's Fire Based Ninjutsu and to an extent Amaretsu from harming him by shedding the layers which are caught by the deadly flames.
Its unique versatility as well as being sand based grants it the typical ability of Flight which Sasori could use as a short term method to escape certain attacks.
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Powerful Fire Release Techniques
Scrolls on Sasori's back allowed him to shoot powerful streams of fire whilst in his "Human Puppet" Form. This gave him a long range alternative to bombarding the opponent with a hundred puppets all at once, meaning they would also have to dodge fast moving superheated streams of fire along with the impending threat of being cut by the poisoned puppets meaning even a light scratch or stumble would indeed prove to be fatal.
Combining this with performance of 100 Puppets would provide an alternative to utilizing the puppets alone, hence removing his weakness of Itachi managing to bypass his army.
Sasori's Iron Sand Elemental Strengths and Weaknesses
Absolute Immunity - Even the most powerful wind techniques won't do much damage against this defense, the force is easily dissipated when the iron sand clusters together.
Absolute Immunity - Earth wouldn't be strong enough to compete with the iron sand natural superiority, especially when it is condensed.
Immunity to most Fire Techniques - would become useless in the face of this as the intense heats magnemite is able to endure (apart from Madara and a few select other's techniques).
Immunity to Water Techniques - They would instead of soaking into it like with ordinary sand would just wipe off, it also dissipates strong waves of water much like Earth Techniques.
Severe Weakness against Lightning Techniques - Due to Lightning's known ability of demagnitizing Iron Sand, it would render the technique effectively useless as the user can no longer manipulate it due to its reliance on magnetic forces.
Hiruko - Scorpion Puppet Armour
Hiruko was a puppet worn by Sasori for the majority of the time which he used as a armour and a weapon. This eliminated the biggest weakness of a puppet user as Sasori was no longer physically separated by his puppet meaning the opponent doesn't attack him (the puppet user) but instead has to combat him directly (in his puppet Armour.
This could be used as a alternative fighting style for Sasori in the beginning of the fight and changing mid way through the fight causing Deidara having to suddenly adapt to the drastic change in fighting style. It also acts as an armour for the beginning stages of the fight to defend against Itachi's Shurkien Jutsu, Fire Release techniques and Itachi's High prowess Taijutsu.
298 Human Puppet Inventory
Sasori had a collection of over 200 Puppets made of deceased and very skilled Shinobi, they seem to still posses their abilities as shown through the Third Kazekage retaining both his Kekkei Genkai Magnet Release and his Iron Sand.
Chiyo claiming that Human Puppets retain all their abilities from when they were alive
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How Sasori could use this ability against Itachi: Sasori's collection provided him with an insane amount of battle versatility, especially considering they were portable by keeping them in summoning scrolls and required relatively little time to bring out. Considering each and every one of his human puppets were of a certain quality as claimed by Sasori himself along with them retaining all of their jutsu from when they were alive provided Sasori with an infinite chakra supply (the puppets utilized their own chakra) and an seemingly endless array of Ninjutsu which undoubtedly possessed high calibur users of the five basic elements.
Lethal Poisoned Weapons
Sasori had poisoned everything in his inventory meaning one scratch would first immobilize you and fully kill you within three days. The nature of weapons went from normal combat to a state of lethality similar to Hidan as exposing a wound through a cut meant that the posion would seep through thus killing you, it was this that made Sasori's fighting style so dangerous to combat because false moves and mistakes meant certain death.
Without a preconceived antidote, something Itachi wouldn't have this effectively became a one shot kill method when applied appropriately e.g. Performance of 100 Puppets or Iron Sand Bullets. Its lethality is greatly underestimated when considering Sasori as a character, with few people realizing that fundamentally a direct hit of even one of Sasori's attacks possessed the same effect of being hit with an Amaretsu or Rasenshuriken.
Red Secret Technique: Performance of 100 Puppets
By making his body into a "Human Puppet" Sasori only has a small living core inside a Puppet Body in the image of himself. Inside his chest he has a hundred chakra strings which control one hundred puppet all simultaneously. With this he can overwhelm his opponent by controlling them in such a way where it is impossible to dodge. Also because the puppets are directly linked to him there is no response lag in between the command input and the puppet's response.
How Sasori could use this ability against Itachi: This technique's utility transcends the usefulness of most, every puppet possesses poisoned weapons and can all act independently without "lag" from Sasori to the puppets meaning he effectively embodied each and every one of them. The formations that can be created from the puppets are limitless due to the sheer number, they could be used as a shield against Amaretsu, can form together to create a pseduo-shield and simply overwhelm the Itachi with a sheer number of simultaneous assaults making it difficult for his Sharingan to follow all of their movements.
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The Hero in the Shadow
Itachi's Abilities
-Large Scale Fire Release Techniques
Itachi's Fire Release Techniques were on a whole another level being of such a magnitude able to make samehada cringe due to the intensity of the heat and able to even take out most water Release techniques. Itachi's signature Fire Release move was the Giant Fireball technique which was enough to overwhelm and consume most other fire techniques.
How Itachi could use this ability against Sasori: Some (not all) of Itachi's Arsenal is composed of high powered Fire Release Ninjutsu which undoubtedly came with extreme heats and high temperatures. This means that some of his Fire techs possessed the ability to reach temperatures high enough to make manipulating the Iron Sand extremely difficult (magnetic fields are negatively effected by high temperatures) or even demagnetize smaller quantities of Iron Sand.
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-Amaretsu's Black Flames
Amaretsu is Itachi’s trump card, due to the destructive nature of one hit landing, these controllable black flames would trump any and all elemental affinities and one successful hit would almost confirm the victory or severely disadvantage the enemy by removing whole limbs as shown when the 4th Raikage lost his arm against Sasuke's Blaze Release.
This upgraded version of Itachi's Fire Release granted him the ability to use black flames which could appear wherever the user looked upon (direct scope of vision), along with these flames being inextinguishable and reaching the highest of temperatures that Fire Release techniques can attain, hence granting them the unique ability to demagnetize Iron Sand once it burns on contact for an extended period of time meaning any section of constantly burning Iron Sand would eventually become impossible to manipulate.
-Genjutsu Capabilities
Itachi has been shown to be one of the greatest genjutsu users in the entire Naruto series. He was shown to be so proficient in Genjutsu that he could cast one just by pointing one finger at the opponent. Tsukuyomi was Itachi's most powerful genjutsu, it allowed the user to trap the opponent in a illusionary world which stretched out time to the point where mere seconds felt like days of torture.
Despite being Itachi's main style of combat it would be useless in this particular fight. Sasori's unique bodily structure (being a human puppet with a single living core) meant he lacked in having a physical brain for Genjutsu to act upon him.
Crow/Clone Related Techniques
Itachi's main style of fighting was shown to be through the use of clone whether for the intended purpose of ninjutsu or genjutsu. His ninjutsu involving crows mainly involved clones of himself which would often dissolve into crows and the use of genjutsu when flocks of crows would attack the opponent and when hit he himself dissolved into crows.
Itachi using Crows as a medium to use Shadow Clone Technique
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How Itachi could use this ability against Sasori: The use of clones and feints would more than benefit Itachi in this fight. Sasori's lethal fighting style which would immobolize and kill him with as little as one direct hit poses a serious risk, in all seriousness Itachi couldn't avoid Sasori's entire arsenal especially considering Iron Sand World Order and Iron Sand bullets. They're powerful speeds and sporadic nature dictate that these attacks are far too difficult to dodge nor anticipate effectively.
Using clones to take necessary hits from difficult techniques such as Iron Sand World Order would effectively eliminate the technique's overall usefulness.
-High Prowess Taijutsu
Itachi was also extremely proficient in the art of Taijutsu, completing the three main styles of combat (Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, Taijutsu). This could possibly assist him in this fight by trying to exploit Sasori's natural weakness as a puppet user. However if an Iron Sand Shield or Performance of 100 Puppets is employed, this would become nothing but a fruitless endeavor.
-Susanno' Techniques
This is a spectral being which was cast over the user of the Jutsu. Itachi was able to use Susanno in the appearance of a spectral knight made out of fire. With Itachi's two signature weapons he could do devastating damage, the Totsuka sword and the Yata Mirror.
How Itachi could use this ability against Sasori: Its utility in this fight would be unparalleled, materializing his chakra into an almost complete defense would defend against almost all of Sasori's Arsenal. The Yata Mirror would keep Sasori's Fire Release and any other human puppet ninjutsu he has at bay, the sword of Totsuka could simultaneously eradicate a large portion of Sasori's 100 Puppet army with as little as one swing. Without it, Sasori would be the undisputed winner of this match but with its addition to Itachi's arsenal, he becomes almost impervious to being poisoned.
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How Sasori can overcome Itachi in a 1 vs 1 Fight ?
Utility of Unique Human Puppet Body Structure
Sasori's unique body being a human puppet meant
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like ordinary shinobi, he didn't possess a brain and so gained granted immunity to Genjutsu as a rule. The transmission of Genjutsu from the user to his body would differ to anyone else because unlike Nin and Taijutsu, it is a form of mental attack where the victim's brain is affected and proper chakra flow is disrupted completely.
"Because genjutsu affects activity throughout the prosencephalon structure of the brain, humans, dogs and other species of mammal are therefore all affected by genjutsu; however, the kikaichū, like all insects, lack such a structure to their brains, and so do not even notice it: as Shino Aburame put it, insects are ruled almost solely by five powerful senses alone, which makes them immune to genjutsu and gives the Aburame clan an ability to detect it when nobody else can".
This quote further supports this. Some argue Sasori's core is essentially a brain but Genjutsu's inability to affect insects mean it doesn't affect all types. Insects granted immunity to Genjutsu falls into the same category of Sasori's core due to them being much simpler structures when compared to humans/animals whilst also lacking the necessary components of a human brain, which is the target organ of any said Genjutsu.
Sasori revealing his body is actually a Human Puppet
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Lacking in an nervous system also meant that Sasori felt no pain as the stimuli producing the said effect would be lost immediately. This would inevitably grant him the ability to tank Amaretsu and
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his host body without feeling agony or having frantic movements which would create an opening for Itachi. His lack for a need of breathing, due to not possessing a respiratory system would also mean he could encase himself in a complete Iron Sand Defense (unlike Gaara's) to provide an all round defense from Amaretsu which layers he could shed to remove the flames flawlessly.
Sasori's claiming that his Human Puppet Body felt no sensation of Pain
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However his body has been shown to possess many other advantages other than Genjutsu immunity and immunity to physical pain. His body seems to be made of a relatively powerful material which
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relatively well (compared to human shinobi) but still collapsed into a few pieces. His body can also apparently reassemble after being struck with a high magnitude attack and his core even allows for "body jumping" where he enters a completely new replica of his previous body. This was shown to be done so efficiently
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, as well as his core somehow acting of its own accord.
Sasori's Arsenal Counters Itachi's Fighting Style Exactly
Sasori's Iron Sand granted him the ability to expel magnetic chakra through the Third Kazkage Puppet's chest by acting in a similar way to a piston. This control of magnetic chakra granted effectively granted him with both immunity to all metallic weapons (namely Steel and Iron) but also the ability to manipulate and redirect their attacks by utilizing the magnetic forces of attraction and repulsion accordingly. Furthermore, the generated magnetic field of Sasori's iron sand would dictate that all metals would be drawn to and circulate around it for later use, giving him access to even more potential battle tactics and room to redirect some of his opponent's offensives especially weapon intensive users e.g. Kenjutsu users such as Darui, Samurai, Zabuza, Hidan, Hanzou and etc
Itachi's Shurkien Jutsu in which he used multiple shuriken in quick succession would be completely negated by this due to all of them being drawn to the magnetic field of the Iron Sand and not Sasori himself. He could then manipulate these said Kunai and redirect them back towards Itachi to cause his jutsu to backfire.
Chiyo claiming that Sasori was immune to Steel and Iron Weapons
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How Sasori counters Amaretsu: Sasori's entire arsenal also grants him multiple counters to Amaretsu despite it being uncounterable for most ninja. First and for most, his Iron Sand would act in a method similar to Gaara's Sand to shield against the black flames and then shed the layer by expelling it away from himself. Due to the magnetic control Sasori has he could potentially redirect the black flames back towards Itachi in an effort to re-use his own technique.
Furthermore, Sasori's ability to switch bodies at will along with not feeling Pain means even in a worse case scenario that a direct hit of Amaretsu lands on him, he would be able to efficiently escape the body and traverse into another one harmed, leaving Itachi's amaretsu to become nothing but a fruitless chakra taxing mechanism.
Gaara's Sand protecting him from Amaretsu by shielding and shedding
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Even then, wearing a thin layer of clothing which Sasori possesses or even his Akatsuki cloak could act as a potential shield to the flames giving him time to shed it and come away from the flames unharmed.
Sasori has also shown to start fights in his Hiruko Scorpion Armour which is both highly durable and extremely agile, if he were to be struck with Amaretsu in the early stages of the fight while this armour was active he would be able to escape the armour easily and subsequently achieve knowledge on one of Itachi's main trump cards which he could use create even more efficient counters to Amaretsu e.g. a
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-Versatility of Iron Sand in this Battle
Sasori has shown that through the use of the Third Kazekage's magnetic chakra he can use and re-use pre-existing Iron Sand from other techniques which left substantial quantities and clumps of it distributed along the terrain. With this ability he was effectively granted with an infinite supply of Iron Sand (due to reassembling individual grains with magnetism) as well as an added ability of manipulating it straight from the terrain to create multiple traps which could be activated almost instantaneously.
Sasori manipulating Pre-existing Iron Sand from the Terrain
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This ability also granted him with an devastating capability for destruction in the sense he could re-shape used attacks for multiple purposes meaning he
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Iron Sand World Order simply furthered this effect, once its full utility has been met
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allowing the sand to spread along the terrain. From this, Sasori could easily warp the terrain, create deadly traps at every turn but primarily assisting him in landing a direct attack against Itachi by manipulating his Iron Sand's sporadic nature to spike up both randomly and in multiple places (from beneath Itachi) to negate his Sharingan's ability for anticipation.
How Sasori Counters Susann'o: Susann'o, mainly the incomplete version both Sasuke and Itachi possess main weaknesses lie in the rib cage, the back and under the spectral being itself. From this, Sasori could easily manipulate any Iron Sand present on the terrain to his favour by either using it to ensnare Itachi catching him in an Iron Sand Prison or simply use the magnetic chakra to spike up suddenly and impale Itachi where he stands.
Sasori creating Spikes from Iron Sand present on the Terrain
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Due to this factor alone, Sasori could easily exploit the weakness of Susann'o by manipulating pre-existing Iron Sand to act as an automatic weapon to land a guaranteed hit against Itachi, expel Iron Sand from a high scale techniques such as Iron Sand World Order to keep Itachi away and then re-use the sand created to seep under Itachi's Susann'o, imprison him which would subsequently disarm Itachi's Susanno for good. Reactivation of it wouldn't be a viable option due to the
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.
Some may argue that through Susann'o, the iron sand's magnetic chakra would be negated meaning it would be useless against it. However this is just an illogical misconception. Nothing to date has been shown to stop magnetic forces directly, they would act without a problem regardless of being inside Susann'o or not.
2nd Possible Counter to Susann'o: Sasori's Iron Sand World Order has only shown
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. Whilst i agree his Iron Sand wouldn't penetrate/break Susann'o, the attack itself would lock down Itachi down, preventing him from moving forward or backwards. Simply maintaining the structure could act as a stall tactic to drain Itachi's chakra or use his Iron Sand to seep under it, hence capturing Itachi.
-Lethality of Sasori’s Fighting Style
Many fail to recognize that lethality is a two-sided thing, when considering combatants people only consider the possible offensives of the "obvious winner" without actually giving thought to what the other party could possibly do.
Sasori's arsenal is just as deadly if not more so than Itachi's. Itachi depends heavily on highly chakra intensive attacks to put him tiers above everyone else, whilst Sasori achieves this through
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with each and every of his attacks being drenched in poison to achieve this.
Earlier i mentioned that, "Amaretsu and Poison needles are fundamentally the same thing if each receives a direct hit". When considering this statement logically, it turns out to be undoubtedly true. Each of them achieve the same end result which is all that matters in a battle, the only difference being is Sasori takes this to a whole new level.
Inter-branching and Sporadic Nature of Iron Sand World Order
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With the addition of Iron Sand to his arsenal, he has seemingly constructed an entirely new fighting style with the inclusion of Iron Sand bullets which for most are impossible to dodge and Iron Sand World Order, which in my opinion surpasses even Amaretsu's capability for destruction.
Due to being a product of magnetism's repulsive forces,
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by anyone not even the user themselves. The forces interact in several ways, most likely producing a uniquely different shape every time effectively negating even the best of reflexes. Ordinary acts can be anticipated due to following some sort of linear pattern with each use but magnetism's sporadic nature completely negates this, at a simple turn an offensive can come out of nowhere.
Sasori's 100 Puppet army (all equipped with poisonous weapons) takes this to a whole another level, the looming amount of simultaneous offensives would even
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with. Considering each and every one of these puppet is capable of pseudo flight, they could act Itachi from every and all directions at 360 Degrees, seemingly overwhelming his capacity to not get scratched by even a single offensive from the army of puppets.
100 Puppet Army acting Simultaneously
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With an army of these puppets, Sasori could employ countless formations for them including: trapping Itachi in a hurricane formation where they circle him and move in to attack one group at a time whilst preventing him from escaping.
Another possible formation is a drilling one, where they come together in a spinning formation to attack all at once. Defensive formations can also be formed by grouping the puppets together as a shield to block Amaretsu's direct field of vision and then shedding any of the puppets which are caught by the inextinguishable black flames.
Who do you think would win this battle, Sasori or Itachi and why ? Let the Debates Begin.
Sakura had multiple antidotes and was working along side Chiyo who was said to have conquered a castle not only that but is also the one who tought Sasori how to use puppets.
1)Genjutsu is useless against Sasori;he's a puppet.
2)Gaara was able to block amaterasu. Sasori with like 20+ more expierence would use Iron Sand to block or use a fodder puppet to block.
3)Susanoo has limited range and activation time. Sasori has a huge range advantage and would be safe from totsuka blade.
4)Itachi has poor stamina and cant keep Susanoo activated for long.
Sasori of the Iron Sand vs Itachi of the Sharingan
This is the 2nd Installment in my new variation Vs Threads which will establish many common misconceptions in the ranking of Akatsuki members.
A Special Thanks to
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for assisting me in this thread and
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for helping out with presentation and such.
This is a thread highlighting the strength of Sasori, his overlooked abilities and essentially it has no bias but a purpose, and is therefore showing why either side could win. Simply you just ignore the title as I wrote it that way for people to recognize it was one of my threads, however the thread will concentrate more on the underdog in this battle to explain why this is a fair match up.
The Human Puppet
Sasori's Abilities
Iron Sand Kekkei Genkai
Sasori's favourite and most commonly used puppet was his Third Kazekage one, it managed retain its one of a kind Magnet Release ability used to manipulate Iron Sand hence granting Sasori free manipulation of this deadly weapon.
How Sasori could use this ability against Itachi: This would be Sasori's greatest weapon in this fight, his access to an infinite armoury by creating any weapon from the iron sand which would serve several purposes in countering Itachi's unique fighting style, namely Susanno'o. It could also be used as a method of creating an Iron Armour Defense similar to that of Gaara's to prevent Itachi's Fire Based Ninjutsu and to an extent Amaretsu from harming him by shedding the layers which are caught by the deadly flames.
Its unique versatility as well as being sand based grants it the typical ability of Flight which Sasori could use as a short term method to escape certain attacks.
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Powerful Fire Release Techniques
Scrolls on Sasori's back allowed him to shoot powerful streams of fire whilst in his "Human Puppet" Form. This gave him a long range alternative to bombarding the opponent with a hundred puppets all at once, meaning they would also have to dodge fast moving superheated streams of fire along with the impending threat of being cut by the poisoned puppets meaning even a light scratch or stumble would indeed prove to be fatal.
Combining this with performance of 100 Puppets would provide an alternative to utilizing the puppets alone, hence removing his weakness of Itachi managing to bypass his army.
Sasori's Iron Sand Elemental Strengths and Weaknesses
Absolute Immunity - Even the most powerful wind techniques won't do much damage against this defense, the force is easily dissipated when the iron sand clusters together.
Absolute Immunity - Earth wouldn't be strong enough to compete with the iron sand natural superiority, especially when it is condensed.
Immunity to most Fire Techniques - would become useless in the face of this as the intense heats magnemite is able to endure (apart from Madara and a few select other's techniques).
Immunity to Water Techniques - They would instead of soaking into it like with ordinary sand would just wipe off, it also dissipates strong waves of water much like Earth Techniques.
Severe Weakness against Lightning Techniques - Due to Lightning's known ability of demagnitizing Iron Sand, it would render the technique effectively useless as the user can no longer manipulate it due to its reliance on magnetic forces.
Hiruko - Scorpion Puppet Armour
Hiruko was a puppet worn by Sasori for the majority of the time which he used as a armour and a weapon. This eliminated the biggest weakness of a puppet user as Sasori was no longer physically separated by his puppet meaning the opponent doesn't attack him (the puppet user) but instead has to combat him directly (in his puppet Armour.
This could be used as a alternative fighting style for Sasori in the beginning of the fight and changing mid way through the fight causing Deidara having to suddenly adapt to the drastic change in fighting style. It also acts as an armour for the beginning stages of the fight to defend against Itachi's Shurkien Jutsu, Fire Release techniques and Itachi's High prowess Taijutsu.
298 Human Puppet Inventory
Sasori had a collection of over 200 Puppets made of deceased and very skilled Shinobi, they seem to still posses their abilities as shown through the Third Kazekage retaining both his Kekkei Genkai Magnet Release and his Iron Sand.
Chiyo claiming that Human Puppets retain all their abilities from when they were alive
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How Sasori could use this ability against Itachi: Sasori's collection provided him with an insane amount of battle versatility, especially considering they were portable by keeping them in summoning scrolls and required relatively little time to bring out. Considering each and every one of his human puppets were of a certain quality as claimed by Sasori himself along with them retaining all of their jutsu from when they were alive provided Sasori with an infinite chakra supply (the puppets utilized their own chakra) and an seemingly endless array of Ninjutsu which undoubtedly possessed high calibur users of the five basic elements.
Lethal Poisoned Weapons
Sasori had poisoned everything in his inventory meaning one scratch would first immobilize you and fully kill you within three days. The nature of weapons went from normal combat to a state of lethality similar to Hidan as exposing a wound through a cut meant that the posion would seep through thus killing you, it was this that made Sasori's fighting style so dangerous to combat because false moves and mistakes meant certain death.
Without a preconceived antidote, something Itachi wouldn't have this effectively became a one shot kill method when applied appropriately e.g. Performance of 100 Puppets or Iron Sand Bullets. Its lethality is greatly underestimated when considering Sasori as a character, with few people realizing that fundamentally a direct hit of even one of Sasori's attacks possessed the same effect of being hit with an Amaretsu or Rasenshuriken.
Red Secret Technique: Performance of 100 Puppets
By making his body into a "Human Puppet" Sasori only has a small living core inside a Puppet Body in the image of himself. Inside his chest he has a hundred chakra strings which control one hundred puppet all simultaneously. With this he can overwhelm his opponent by controlling them in such a way where it is impossible to dodge. Also because the puppets are directly linked to him there is no response lag in between the command input and the puppet's response.
How Sasori could use this ability against Itachi: This technique's utility transcends the usefulness of most, every puppet possesses poisoned weapons and can all act independently without "lag" from Sasori to the puppets meaning he effectively embodied each and every one of them. The formations that can be created from the puppets are limitless due to the sheer number, they could be used as a shield against Amaretsu, can form together to create a pseduo-shield and simply overwhelm the Itachi with a sheer number of simultaneous assaults making it difficult for his Sharingan to follow all of their movements.
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The Hero in the Shadow
Itachi's Abilities
-Large Scale Fire Release Techniques
Itachi's Fire Release Techniques were on a whole another level being of such a magnitude able to make samehada cringe due to the intensity of the heat and able to even take out most water Release techniques. Itachi's signature Fire Release move was the Giant Fireball technique which was enough to overwhelm and consume most other fire techniques.
How Itachi could use this ability against Sasori: Some (not all) of Itachi's Arsenal is composed of high powered Fire Release Ninjutsu which undoubtedly came with extreme heats and high temperatures. This means that some of his Fire techs possessed the ability to reach temperatures high enough to make manipulating the Iron Sand extremely difficult (magnetic fields are negatively effected by high temperatures) or even demagnetize smaller quantities of Iron Sand.
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-Amaretsu's Black Flames
Amaretsu is Itachi’s trump card, due to the destructive nature of one hit landing, these controllable black flames would trump any and all elemental affinities and one successful hit would almost confirm the victory or severely disadvantage the enemy by removing whole limbs as shown when the 4th Raikage lost his arm against Sasuke's Blaze Release.
This upgraded version of Itachi's Fire Release granted him the ability to use black flames which could appear wherever the user looked upon (direct scope of vision), along with these flames being inextinguishable and reaching the highest of temperatures that Fire Release techniques can attain, hence granting them the unique ability to demagnetize Iron Sand once it burns on contact for an extended period of time meaning any section of constantly burning Iron Sand would eventually become impossible to manipulate.
-Genjutsu Capabilities
Itachi has been shown to be one of the greatest genjutsu users in the entire Naruto series. He was shown to be so proficient in Genjutsu that he could cast one just by pointing one finger at the opponent. Tsukuyomi was Itachi's most powerful genjutsu, it allowed the user to trap the opponent in a illusionary world which stretched out time to the point where mere seconds felt like days of torture.
Despite being Itachi's main style of combat it would be useless in this particular fight. Sasori's unique bodily structure (being a human puppet with a single living core) meant he lacked in having a physical brain for Genjutsu to act upon him.
Crow/Clone Related Techniques
Itachi's main style of fighting was shown to be through the use of clone whether for the intended purpose of ninjutsu or genjutsu. His ninjutsu involving crows mainly involved clones of himself which would often dissolve into crows and the use of genjutsu when flocks of crows would attack the opponent and when hit he himself dissolved into crows.
Itachi using Crows as a medium to use Shadow Clone Technique
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How Itachi could use this ability against Sasori: The use of clones and feints would more than benefit Itachi in this fight. Sasori's lethal fighting style which would immobolize and kill him with as little as one direct hit poses a serious risk, in all seriousness Itachi couldn't avoid Sasori's entire arsenal especially considering Iron Sand World Order and Iron Sand bullets. They're powerful speeds and sporadic nature dictate that these attacks are far too difficult to dodge nor anticipate effectively.
Using clones to take necessary hits from difficult techniques such as Iron Sand World Order would effectively eliminate the technique's overall usefulness.
-High Prowess Taijutsu
Itachi was also extremely proficient in the art of Taijutsu, completing the three main styles of combat (Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, Taijutsu). This could possibly assist him in this fight by trying to exploit Sasori's natural weakness as a puppet user. However if an Iron Sand Shield or Performance of 100 Puppets is employed, this would become nothing but a fruitless endeavor.
-Susanno' Techniques
This is a spectral being which was cast over the user of the Jutsu. Itachi was able to use Susanno in the appearance of a spectral knight made out of fire. With Itachi's two signature weapons he could do devastating damage, the Totsuka sword and the Yata Mirror.
How Itachi could use this ability against Sasori: Its utility in this fight would be unparalleled, materializing his chakra into an almost complete defense would defend against almost all of Sasori's Arsenal. The Yata Mirror would keep Sasori's Fire Release and any other human puppet ninjutsu he has at bay, the sword of Totsuka could simultaneously eradicate a large portion of Sasori's 100 Puppet army with as little as one swing. Without it, Sasori would be the undisputed winner of this match but with its addition to Itachi's arsenal, he becomes almost impervious to being poisoned.
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How Sasori can overcome Itachi in a 1 vs 1 Fight ?
Utility of Unique Human Puppet Body Structure
Sasori's unique body being a human puppet meant
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like ordinary shinobi, he didn't possess a brain and so gained granted immunity to Genjutsu as a rule. The transmission of Genjutsu from the user to his body would differ to anyone else because unlike Nin and Taijutsu, it is a form of mental attack where the victim's brain is affected and proper chakra flow is disrupted completely.
"Because genjutsu affects activity throughout the prosencephalon structure of the brain, humans, dogs and other species of mammal are therefore all affected by genjutsu; however, the kikaichū, like all insects, lack such a structure to their brains, and so do not even notice it: as Shino Aburame put it, insects are ruled almost solely by five powerful senses alone, which makes them immune to genjutsu and gives the Aburame clan an ability to detect it when nobody else can".
This quote further supports this. Some argue Sasori's core is essentially a brain but Genjutsu's inability to affect insects mean it doesn't affect all types. Insects granted immunity to Genjutsu falls into the same category of Sasori's core due to them being much simpler structures when compared to humans/animals whilst also lacking the necessary components of a human brain, which is the target organ of any said Genjutsu.
Sasori revealing his body is actually a Human Puppet
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Lacking in an nervous system also meant that Sasori felt no pain as the stimuli producing the said effect would be lost immediately. This would inevitably grant him the ability to tank Amaretsu and
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his host body without feeling agony or having frantic movements which would create an opening for Itachi. His lack for a need of breathing, due to not possessing a respiratory system would also mean he could encase himself in a complete Iron Sand Defense (unlike Gaara's) to provide an all round defense from Amaretsu which layers he could shed to remove the flames flawlessly.
Sasori's claiming that his Human Puppet Body felt no sensation of Pain
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However his body has been shown to possess many other advantages other than Genjutsu immunity and immunity to physical pain. His body seems to be made of a relatively powerful material which
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relatively well (compared to human shinobi) but still collapsed into a few pieces. His body can also apparently reassemble after being struck with a high magnitude attack and his core even allows for "body jumping" where he enters a completely new replica of his previous body. This was shown to be done so efficiently
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, as well as his core somehow acting of its own accord.
Sasori's Arsenal Counters Itachi's Fighting Style Exactly
Sasori's Iron Sand granted him the ability to expel magnetic chakra through the Third Kazkage Puppet's chest by acting in a similar way to a piston. This control of magnetic chakra granted effectively granted him with both immunity to all metallic weapons (namely Steel and Iron) but also the ability to manipulate and redirect their attacks by utilizing the magnetic forces of attraction and repulsion accordingly. Furthermore, the generated magnetic field of Sasori's iron sand would dictate that all metals would be drawn to and circulate around it for later use, giving him access to even more potential battle tactics and room to redirect some of his opponent's offensives especially weapon intensive users e.g. Kenjutsu users such as Darui, Samurai, Zabuza, Hidan, Hanzou and etc
Itachi's Shurkien Jutsu in which he used multiple shuriken in quick succession would be completely negated by this due to all of them being drawn to the magnetic field of the Iron Sand and not Sasori himself. He could then manipulate these said Kunai and redirect them back towards Itachi to cause his jutsu to backfire.
Chiyo claiming that Sasori was immune to Steel and Iron Weapons
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How Sasori counters Amaretsu: Sasori's entire arsenal also grants him multiple counters to Amaretsu despite it being uncounterable for most ninja. First and for most, his Iron Sand would act in a method similar to Gaara's Sand to shield against the black flames and then shed the layer by expelling it away from himself. Due to the magnetic control Sasori has he could potentially redirect the black flames back towards Itachi in an effort to re-use his own technique.
Furthermore, Sasori's ability to switch bodies at will along with not feeling Pain means even in a worse case scenario that a direct hit of Amaretsu lands on him, he would be able to efficiently escape the body and traverse into another one harmed, leaving Itachi's amaretsu to become nothing but a fruitless chakra taxing mechanism.
Gaara's Sand protecting him from Amaretsu by shielding and shedding
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Even then, wearing a thin layer of clothing which Sasori possesses or even his Akatsuki cloak could act as a potential shield to the flames giving him time to shed it and come away from the flames unharmed.
Sasori has also shown to start fights in his Hiruko Scorpion Armour which is both highly durable and extremely agile, if he were to be struck with Amaretsu in the early stages of the fight while this armour was active he would be able to escape the armour easily and subsequently achieve knowledge on one of Itachi's main trump cards which he could use create even more efficient counters to Amaretsu e.g. a
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-Versatility of Iron Sand in this Battle
Sasori has shown that through the use of the Third Kazekage's magnetic chakra he can use and re-use pre-existing Iron Sand from other techniques which left substantial quantities and clumps of it distributed along the terrain. With this ability he was effectively granted with an infinite supply of Iron Sand (due to reassembling individual grains with magnetism) as well as an added ability of manipulating it straight from the terrain to create multiple traps which could be activated almost instantaneously.
Sasori manipulating Pre-existing Iron Sand from the Terrain
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This ability also granted him with an devastating capability for destruction in the sense he could re-shape used attacks for multiple purposes meaning he
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Iron Sand World Order simply furthered this effect, once its full utility has been met
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allowing the sand to spread along the terrain. From this, Sasori could easily warp the terrain, create deadly traps at every turn but primarily assisting him in landing a direct attack against Itachi by manipulating his Iron Sand's sporadic nature to spike up both randomly and in multiple places (from beneath Itachi) to negate his Sharingan's ability for anticipation.
How Sasori Counters Susann'o: Susann'o, mainly the incomplete version both Sasuke and Itachi possess main weaknesses lie in the rib cage, the back and under the spectral being itself. From this, Sasori could easily manipulate any Iron Sand present on the terrain to his favour by either using it to ensnare Itachi catching him in an Iron Sand Prison or simply use the magnetic chakra to spike up suddenly and impale Itachi where he stands.
Sasori creating Spikes from Iron Sand present on the Terrain
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Due to this factor alone, Sasori could easily exploit the weakness of Susann'o by manipulating pre-existing Iron Sand to act as an automatic weapon to land a guaranteed hit against Itachi, expel Iron Sand from a high scale techniques such as Iron Sand World Order to keep Itachi away and then re-use the sand created to seep under Itachi's Susann'o, imprison him which would subsequently disarm Itachi's Susanno for good. Reactivation of it wouldn't be a viable option due to the
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.
Some may argue that through Susann'o, the iron sand's magnetic chakra would be negated meaning it would be useless against it. However this is just an illogical misconception. Nothing to date has been shown to stop magnetic forces directly, they would act without a problem regardless of being inside Susann'o or not.
2nd Possible Counter to Susann'o: Sasori's Iron Sand World Order has only shown
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. Whilst i agree his Iron Sand wouldn't penetrate/break Susann'o, the attack itself would lock down Itachi down, preventing him from moving forward or backwards. Simply maintaining the structure could act as a stall tactic to drain Itachi's chakra or use his Iron Sand to seep under it, hence capturing Itachi.
-Lethality of Sasori’s Fighting Style
Many fail to recognize that lethality is a two-sided thing, when considering combatants people only consider the possible offensives of the "obvious winner" without actually giving thought to what the other party could possibly do.
Sasori's arsenal is just as deadly if not more so than Itachi's. Itachi depends heavily on highly chakra intensive attacks to put him tiers above everyone else, whilst Sasori achieves this through
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with each and every of his attacks being drenched in poison to achieve this.
Earlier i mentioned that, "Amaretsu and Poison needles are fundamentally the same thing if each receives a direct hit". When considering this statement logically, it turns out to be undoubtedly true. Each of them achieve the same end result which is all that matters in a battle, the only difference being is Sasori takes this to a whole new level.
Inter-branching and Sporadic Nature of Iron Sand World Order
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With the addition of Iron Sand to his arsenal, he has seemingly constructed an entirely new fighting style with the inclusion of Iron Sand bullets which for most are impossible to dodge and Iron Sand World Order, which in my opinion surpasses even Amaretsu's capability for destruction.
Due to being a product of magnetism's repulsive forces,
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by anyone not even the user themselves. The forces interact in several ways, most likely producing a uniquely different shape every time effectively negating even the best of reflexes. Ordinary acts can be anticipated due to following some sort of linear pattern with each use but magnetism's sporadic nature completely negates this, at a simple turn an offensive can come out of nowhere.
Sasori's 100 Puppet army (all equipped with poisonous weapons) takes this to a whole another level, the looming amount of simultaneous offensives would even
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with. Considering each and every one of these puppet is capable of pseudo flight, they could act Itachi from every and all directions at 360 Degrees, seemingly overwhelming his capacity to not get scratched by even a single offensive from the army of puppets.
100 Puppet Army acting Simultaneously
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With an army of these puppets, Sasori could employ countless formations for them including: trapping Itachi in a hurricane formation where they circle him and move in to attack one group at a time whilst preventing him from escaping.
Another possible formation is a drilling one, where they come together in a spinning formation to attack all at once. Defensive formations can also be formed by grouping the puppets together as a shield to block Amaretsu's direct field of vision and then shedding any of the puppets which are caught by the inextinguishable black flames.
Who do you think would win this battle, Sasori or Itachi and why ? Let the Debates Begin.
I am really amazed how you proposed sasori getting rid of the black flames its entirely plausible and you never use what ifs or detour from the move sets of each provided by the manga to suit your thread however i noticed not all of itachis moves were up there nor was his yata mirror or tostuka sword which kinda defeats the purpose of this thread act it is not right to leave out certain parts of his move set. i will give you + rep because this was still good regardless if you let out some moves but i would like you to include all possibilities next time because i still can't help but feel as if itachi's move list was severely short handed this time around
I do not agree with your argument that Genjutsu is useless against Sasori. You said:
Itachi has been shown to be one of the greatest genjutsu users in the entire Naruto series. He was shown to be so proficient in Genjutsu that he could cast one just by pointing one finger at the opponent. Tsukuyomi was Itachi's most powerful genjutsu, it allowed the user to trap the opponent in a illusionary world which stretched out time to the point where mere seconds felt like days of torture.
Despite being Itachi's main style of combat it would be useless in this particular fight. Sasori's unique bodily structure (being a human puppet with a single living core) meant he lacked in having a physical brain for Genjutsu to act upon him.
Sasori's unique body being a human puppet meant he lacked a normal nervous system like ordinary shinobi, he didn't possess a brain and so gained granted immunity to Genjutsu as a rule. The transmission of Genjutsu from the user to his body would differ to anyone else because unlike Nin and Taijutsu, it is a form of mental attack where the victim's brain is affected and proper chakra flow is disrupted completely.
"Because genjutsu affects activity throughout the prosencephalon structure of the brain, humans, dogs and other species of mammal are therefore all affected by genjutsu; however, the kikaichū, like all insects, lack such a structure to their brains, and so do not even notice it: as Shino Aburame put it, insects are ruled almost solely by five powerful senses alone, which makes them immune to genjutsu and gives the Aburame clan an ability to detect it when nobody else can".
This quote further supports this. Some argue Sasori's core is essentially a brain but Genjutsu's inability to affect insects mean it doesn't affect all types. Insects granted immunity to Genjutsu falls into the same category of Sasori's core due to them being much simpler structures when compared to humans/animals whilst also lacking the necessary components of a human brain, which is the target organ of any said Genjutsu.
Lacking in an nervous system also meant that Sasori felt no pain as the stimuli producing the said effect would be lost immediately. This would inevitably grant him the ability to tank Amaretsu and then transfer bodies or simply evacuate his host body without feeling agony or having frantic movements which would create an opening for Itachi. His lack for a need of breathing, due to not possessing a respiratory system would also mean he could encase himself in a complete Iron Sand Defense (unlike Gaara's) to provide an all round defense from Amaretsu which layers he could shed to remove the flames flawlessly.
The fundamental flaw seems to be a logical/scientific one. If you are going to bring science into this (i.e. arguments about the body [respiratory system, nervous system]), then the burden is upon you to answer some glaring inconsistencies.
Here is a question for you: How does Sasori see? How is he able to locate people and visually perceive where they are? He doesn't have a brain, so he doesn't have an occipital lobe--there is no visual cortex. Obviously, he doesn't even have eyes, so he has no physical means for vision.
Yet, the miracle here is, he sees! He can perceive. How is that possible. If you want to argue from a scientific standpoint, saying that he cannot feel pain because he has no nervous system, that's all well and good.
However, at some point you have to answer extremely simple questions like, how can Sasori see? If you're being consistent, then you have to maintain that Sasori cannot see and has no means to see. How is he even alive at all.
This is the weakness of your argument. In fact, this is the bane of all "fairy tales", so to speak. One requires a suspension of disbelief.
So I argue that, based on what you've said, Itachi will win because Sasori has no visual cortex since he has not brain and he cannot see. Do you understand what I'm saying?
But the thing is, Sasori can see. It seems that Sasori, who is a puppet, in a sense, via some jutsu, fully embodies the "master puppet". Now, feel free to argue this. I am by no means taking this view, but it seems that if you want to explain your inconsistency, this is the route you will have to go. Now, if Sasori fully embodies the "master puppet", and by some means is able to perceive through vision the world around him, then it stands to reason that he can be put under Genjutsu.
If you are not convinced, what about hearing? Does Sasori have ears? No? Again, he doesn't even have a brain. Yet he can dialogue with Sakura and Chiyo as if he heard everything loud and clear. But does that mean he would be susceptible to the frog song Jutsu? If Sasori can hear, which he obviously can, despite the lack of the explainable scientific means, then it stands to reason that he can be put under Genjutsu.
How do you answer against these arguments? Will you be consistent, and acknowledge that your scientific explanation are inconsistent and do not make sense when consistently applied? I'm curious to hear your response.
I used to think that Sasori couldn't beat Itachi due to his MS, but this thread convinced me.
Itachi won't use his MS abilities from the start of the match, it would tire him out and it would be a very unwise move, as stated by Tobi:
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Iron Sand Bullets will kill Itachi, I don't see him dodging/blocking it.
*BTW, did you mean to spell Amaterasu as Amaretsu?
Sasori gets alot of propers from me. If I was Itachi, Sasori is an opponent I avoid if possible. Sasori can be dealt with. Quick and desicively. Crows packing black flames decimating his(sasori's) arsenal then it official its me and you. From there there should be no question who is going to win. Flowing iron is easier to mold. Rigid it becomes cumbersome. Im fire style, that ability(iron sand) can become a weakness. I can do it all from a distance. Enjoying my self maybe even lounging in my lazy boy. If i was to touch you trust you would complain I f***** up your high. LOL
