NB & Filler 'Canon' (i wrote about Nb in my Dissertation lool)

[Hyuga Prodigy]

So, what takes precedence when there are contradictions? (I mean between the manga and other pseudo-canon materials), cos if the manga takes precedence then surely the manga is at a level of "canonicity" superior to the other sources.

Precedence can be taken by any form of media depending the circumstance. Most people like to believe precedence lies toward the manga however alot of the event in the manga leaves out minor or important event and has greater extent of inconsistencies then some fillers whereas Anime and some movies take up the priority to use the filler to cover up this loose however some contradiction had been made but it does not fundamentally shift the whole context to make it complete unbelievable.
Some people even go far to call it contradiction because sometime the manga didn't bother delve in much with some of the characters or events which also leaves out details and interpretation.

For example, in the manga, Kishi didn't bother spending time involving Kakashi as an ANBU or Itachi backstory but knowing he doesn't have much time to cover up in the manga, he probably relied on the anime to do the work which gives the opportunity to flesh out the story which could be possible scenario but it all comes down to the fans whether they believe it or not.

Naruto manga ended off at VERY short note, yet we had no idea what happening during after War arc but we managed to grasp and get full intel if it had not been the Hiden novels and Naruto the Last to fill in all the gap happening between chapter 699-700.

 

[Bimbonium]

Precedence can be taken by any form of media depending the circumstance.
Most people like to believe precedence lies toward the manga however alot of the event in the manga leaves out minor or important event and has greater extent of inconsistencies then some fillers whereas Anime and some movies take up the priority to use the filler to cover up this loose however some contradiction had been made but it does not fundamentally shift the whole context to make it complete unbelievable.
Some people even go far to call it contradiction because sometime the manga didn't bother delve in much with some of the characters or events which also leaves out details and interpretation.

For example, in the manga, Kishi didn't bother spending time involving Kakashi as an ANBU or Itachi backstory but knowing he doesn't have much time to cover up in the manga, he probably relied on the anime to do the work which gives the opportunity to flesh out the story which could be possible scenario but it all comes down to the fans whether they believe it or not.

Naruto manga ended off at VERY short note, yet we had no idea what happening during after War arc but we managed to grasp and get full intel if it had not been the Hiden novels and Naruto the Last to fill in all the gap happening between chapter 699-700.

@bold Yes, but the media in question must have "significant" inputs from the authorial body (Author, editor and co).

@Crimson; Precedence does not really come into play when there are no contradictions, so far as the media in question has significant input from the author.

What the anime community generally refer to as filler are media that have no input (except probably a go-ahead) from the author, and quite rightly so, as we can't just accept everyone's opinion or inputs on the story as canon. Movies like RTN and the movies before, did not even try to be canonical.
It's pretty simple imo, when a piece has significant contributions from the author it's canon, else it isn't, even when it's coherent with the story, I can imagine a nice coherent story for Konohamaru's chunin exams, the fact that it's coherent does not make it canon (even if I get a go ahead from the author), the go-ahead from the author makes it above the level of Fanfic, but if the Author decides to actively contribute by modifying or even just claiming to modify the story then its canon, cos at the end of the day when the credits role, Authors would be Masashi Kishimoto and whoever wrote the piece.

 

[123fire]

Canon>>>>Filler

Remember the ninja ostrich? Sasuke's reasoning to fight naruto in jiraiya ninja scrolls? Those are just so bad . And its always canon>>>Fillers . And yeah they're irrelevant where's yukimaru and guren in the war? How are they relevant to the plot?

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

@bold Yes, but the media in question must have "significant" inputs from the authorial body (Author, editor and co).

@Crimson; Precedence does not really come into play when there are no contradictions, so far as the media in question has significant input from the author.

What the anime community generally refer to as filler are media that have no input (except probably a go-ahead) from the author, and quite rightly so, as we can't just accept everyone's opinion or inputs on the story as canon. Movies like RTN and the movies before, did not even try to be canonical.
It's pretty simple imo, when a piece has significant contributions from the author it's canon, else it isn't, even when it's coherent with the story, I can imagine a nice coherent story for Konohamaru's chunin exams, the fact that it's coherent does not make it canon (even if I get a go ahead from the author), the go-ahead from the author makes it above the level of Fanfic, but if the Author decides to actively contribute by modifying or even just claiming to modify the story then its canon, cos at the end of the day when the credits role, Authors would be Masashi Kishimoto and whoever wrote the piece.

It has some significant contribution if you are looking at the broader view given how much the Anime influence the public affairs which is above else beside the author . Let's be real here, people who got into watching anime presumably thought everything follows the context of this storyline while some not have been coherent enough with the series, it was given the impression that the Anime are the main factor but they didn't realize upon themselves by this very concept of "Fillers" that was brought up by the fans who speaks on behalf of the anime community to read the manga.

Anime Studio have notion to follows their original work by sometime deviate or expanding the series from manga adaption using as a catalyst for the media and they have the authority to direct and produce their animated series upon the contract that was sign as an approval by a mangaka which in that sense it can be classified as "canon" only if you want to stick with how the anime orchestrated their own originality even in some case The authors collab with derivative works and tends to do more of illustrated work than scripting.

Anyway factor remains is that you can choose which piece holds more importance. if you want to stick with manga from the author ONLY and consider to hold more input then by all mean it's canon vice versa the anime, etc.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Canon>>>>Filler

Remember the ninja ostrich? Sasuke's reasoning to fight naruto in jiraiya ninja scrolls? Those are just so bad . And its always canon>>>Fillers . And yeah they're irrelevant where's yukimaru and guren in the war? How are they relevant to the plot?

You don't get to decide that. It's expansive world-building. It's just another story.

Where's Hidan? Kimimaro? Hell where's Mizuki these days? They didn't make it to the war....still added to the story though didn't they.

 

[LeSauce]

Lmao, you yourself consider things canon by saying fan-theory becomes fanfiction if it disagrees with the manga.

If canon really doesn't exist, then my story that has Naruto as a closet homosexual struggling to reveal himself to the world has just as much merit as the manga.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Lmao, you yourself consider things canon by saying fan-theory becomes fanfiction if it disagrees with the manga.

If canon really doesn't exist, then my story that has Naruto as a closet homosexual struggling to reveal himself to the world has just as much merit as the manga.

Yup. There's nothing saying that isn't the case. There's no universal truth to what it's about, art/fiction/films/literature? the process happens to the individual. It's not a social activity. When it becomes a social activity (like NB) all it becomes is competing claims. You don't break the rules of that world and can back your point up? You're entitled to that and don't have to prove it to anybody. Fair game.

Though that would make Naruto bisexual jussayin' ;o

 

[LeSauce]

Yup. There's nothing saying that isn't the case. There's no universal truth to what it's about, art/fiction/films/literature? the process happens to the individual. It's not a social activity. When it becomes a social activity (like NB) all it becomes is competing claims. You don't break the rules of that world and can back your point up? You're entitled to that and don't have to prove it to anybody. Fair game.

Though that would make Naruto bisexual jussayin' ;o

You agree that Kishi established that world, so you agree that there is such a thing as canon, or at least something that is credited above all other works.

My work isn't considered on par as with his, no matter what.

In order to even back up my point, I would have to look at his work and see if mine goes according to his, which is putting his work at a higher degree of truth. Therefore, there is such a thing as canon, where everything done would have to be based on.

If canon did not exist, and everything was truly just people's opinions, then nothing would be right because there cannot be more than one right thing. Of ai made a theory, and had backed up everything, but then Kishi made a chapter that directly refuted that, then I would be wrong.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

You agree that Kishi established that world, so you agree that there is such a thing as canon, or at least something that is credited above all other works.

My work isn't considered on par as with his, no matter what.

In order to even back up my point, I would have to look at his work and see if mine goes according to his, which is putting his work at a higher degree of truth. Therefore, there is such a thing as canon, where everything done would have to be based on.

If canon did not exist, and everything was truly just people's opinions, then nothing would be right because there cannot be more than one right thing. Of ai made a theory, and had backed up everything, but then Kishi made a chapter that directly refuted that, then I would be wrong.

The bottom line is that people are trying to apply truth to fiction, a world which isn't true and doesn't have a universal truth to it. Fiction has a narrative, themes. It's ABOUT something. Has a goal. Our world seemingly doesn't. You can't apply objective truth to stories.

 

[LeSauce]

The bottom line is that people are trying to apply truth to fiction, a world which isn't true and doesn't have a universal truth to it. Fiction has a narrative, themes. It's ABOUT something. Has a goal. Our world seemingly doesn't. You can't apply objective truth to stories.

You're contradicting yourself, bud. You already said that you have to keep a theory within the rules of that world, which means that whatever the world says is true.

And yes, a fictional world can have truth within its own world. That's how we know the names of the characters and what happened in the story. If there were no facts, and no truth, like you say, then no one would be calling the character Naruto, Naruto.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

You're contradicting yourself, bud. You already said that you have to keep a theory within the rules of that world, which means that whatever the world says is true.

And yes, a fictional world can have truth within its own world. That's how we know the names of the characters and what happened in the story. If there were no facts, and no truth, like you say, then no one would be calling the character Naruto, Naruto.

Maybe I should be clearer, if you break the rules of that world then it's fan-fiction, not so much a fan-theory- but i'm not calling fan-fiction a bad thing. They're all very valid, no contradicting ignore the 'rules' part if that helps, it's kinda secondary.

 

[LeSauce]

Maybe I should be clearer, if you break the rules of that world then it's fan-fiction, not so much a fan-theory- but i'm not calling fan-fiction a bad thing. They're all very valid, no contradicting ignore the 'rules' part if that helps, it's kinda secondary.

Yeah, no.

This is the same thing as saying everyone is right. "You have your opinion, I have mine", therefore we are both right. No, that's not how it works, there's a right answer that's being ignored to suit the emotional needs of someone.

Like I said, if I made a character derived from Naruto, then it still wouldn't be part of that world, it would be part of the world I created. Sure, I could say that it's part of it, but it still will never be considered part of that story to anyone else.

Naruto itself is a story that has already been told, whatever else someone creates isn't part of that world, it's something entirely separate, and therefore cannot be taken with the same validity when discussing that story. I cannot rewrite the story to have Naruto be called Menma, and then go off to tell someone that that was Naruto's name just because I think fan-fiction holds the same weight. My story doesn't matter.

Why do you think comic books have parallel universes when they want to change something in the story?

There's a reason it's called fan-fiction,and fan-Theory even though it's already talking about a fictional story.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Yeah, no.

This is the same thing as saying everyone is right. "You have your opinion, I have mine", therefore we are both right. No, that's not how it works, there's a right answer that's being ignored to suit the emotional needs of someone.

Like I said, if I made a character derived from Naruto, then it still wouldn't be part of that world, it would be part of the world I created. Sure, I could say that it's part of it, but it still will never be considered part of that story to anyone else.

Naruto itself is a story that has already been told, whatever else someone creates isn't part of that world, it's something entirely separate, and therefore cannot be taken with the same validity when discussing that story. I cannot rewrite the story to have Naruto be called Menma, and then go off to tell someone that that was Naruto's name just because I think fan-fiction holds the same weight. My story doesn't matter.

Why do you think comic books have parallel universes when they want to change something in the story?

There's a reason it's called fan-fiction,and fan-Theory even though it's already talking about a fictional story.

Had a long day. Read Roland Barthes short essay and argue with him not me

'Death of the Author' is established in the dissertation before this out of context Naruto paragraph, explains better