The Wanking at this point is so bad, I see why people hate FT Fans sometimes
Natsu < Minerva
Mira > Natsu
Natsu = Gray (similar to Naruto = Sasuke)
Kagura > Natsu (but High Diff)
Sayla > Natsu
Theres no need to discuss this anymore bud
[Discussion] Natsu is way too Hyped
- Thread starter 90sKids98
- Start date
Natsu < Minerva
Mira > Natsu
Natsu = Gray (similar to Naruto = Sasuke)
Kagura > Natsu (but High Diff)
Sayla > Natsu
Theres no need to discuss this anymore bud
Sure. If you're going by portrayal. When two people are trying to debate for the same thing, you just can't call it wanking if you can't provide any substantial evidence to prove your points. If you can't prove it, you're going by a speculation. Or portrayal. or your distaste for Natsu. Or you're just trolling.
But lemme just reply to your power-scaling
Natsu will mid-high diff Minerva.
Natsu will mid-diff Mira.
Natsu will mid-diff Gray.
Natsu will high diff Kagura.
Natsu will one-shot Sayla. She doesn't have any durability feats and is therefore one-shottable by his nakama punch that destroyed an entire mansion by it's mere shockwave. If we're going by speculations here about Sayla's durability, Natsu still high diffs Sayla.
Killua Zoldyck
Active member
Hype Natsu is the last thing I would want to do, I hate the character, but facts remain facts.
She would have lost to I'm either way, it was made clear who was the stronger of the two. Show me feats that dictate that Mira is stronger then Natsu, otherwise she is not, and I hwve already stated why.Yes it does, if she can't keep track of the person she can't control them, Elfman is a physical brute type, Natsu actually has long range attacks, so it won't matter if he gets controlled. Minerva is not stronger then Natsu, until you show me solid panel feats that dictate that she is stronger then Natsu, and no, showing her blocking one of his punches is not enough.
Yes, and that reason was because plot demanded that Natsu got captured. Under normal circumstances, he breaks out or avoids the attacks in the first place.
Also, the Natsu and Gray comparison with Sasuke and Naruto is outdated, the new Sasuke to Natsu is Gajeel, Gray is weaker then them.
Forbidden Tale
Active member
@ Killuaa
1. Not really, Natsu was in front of the enemy.
2. No, Mira is stronger, even Makarov acknowledge her as stronger.
3. No.
4. No.
5. 'on shottable' from Jura's perspective, not from Natsu. Orga was already battle worn.
6. Don't change point.
1. Not really, Natsu was in front of the enemy.
2. No, Mira is stronger, even Makarov acknowledge her as stronger.
3. No.
4. No.
5. 'on shottable' from Jura's perspective, not from Natsu. Orga was already battle worn.
6. Don't change point.
Quote my post, I don't know what post this is replying to.@ Killuaa
1. Not really, Natsu was in front of the enemy.
2. No, Mira is stronger, even Makarov acknowledge her as stronger.
3. No.
4. No.
5. 'on shottable' from Jura's perspective, not from Natsu. Orga was already battle worn.
6. Don't change point.
@ Forbidden Tale
If this post is what you were replying to; here are my answers.
1. Exactly, Natsu was distracted when he realised that he had the same smell as Gray.
2. No. Stop with the portrayal, we have actual feats. Natsu is stronger. Mirajane is glass cannon. If we're going by Makarov's statements, he also deemed Natsu strong enough to beat Laxus. Unless you think Mira is strong enough to defeat Laxus?
3. Give one feat that proves your statement. Ultear is slower, weaker and whose only feat is stalemating pre-TS Gray who's a million miles below Current Natsu. Portrayal and hypes are all she has.
4.Give reasons. You're way too reliant on statements and portrayal to the point that you ignore feats.
5. So? That fight was off paneled and Laxus was clearly playing around, even pre-TS Natsu managed that and he still managed to used attacks to take iut Laxus. Natsu's strong enough to give Jura tiers a mid diff fight.
6. No. Blocking it means she would have to stand there, take it while using some sort of defense without any tricks. She redirected it. That attack has a small AOE which was the only reason why Minerva was able to redirect it, a full powered roar would do more than take Minerva out.
Forbidden Tale
Active member
1. If Natsu was stronger than him he wouldn't be 'one shotted' by him.
2. We know that Natsu isn't strong enough for that. And his statament about Mira > Natsu, was made after that.
3. Ultear is leader of 7 Kin and strongest out of 7 Kins. Not to meniton that she also had 7 years to get stronger
4. Same as 2.
5. Orga should be stronger than Minerva and for Minerva argument look below.
6. That was full power Natsu, and Minerva blocking/redirect that, whatever you want to call that, Minerva didn't use full power.
2. We know that Natsu isn't strong enough for that. And his statament about Mira > Natsu, was made after that.
3. Ultear is leader of 7 Kin and strongest out of 7 Kins. Not to meniton that she also had 7 years to get stronger
4. Same as 2.
5. Orga should be stronger than Minerva and for Minerva argument look below.
6. That was full power Natsu, and Minerva blocking/redirect that, whatever you want to call that, Minerva didn't use full power.
1. He wasn't oneshotted. That's like saying Mirajane/Erza are weaker than Evergreen. Considering she Stone Eyed them when they were distracted with her arrival.
I've already given you the reason why that wasn't the case with Natsu.
2. Doesn't matter, I was only trying to make an example and statements mean bullshut in this manga. Natsu can one shot Mirajane.
3. Do you see the name of the thread? Yeah. You're doing that to Ultear by using that logic. She's the leader, so? Title and portrayal. Show feats to back up your statement.
4. She's oneshottable. Only her nukes are impressive.
5. Orga is weaker since Minerva was stated to be the strongest. When even Orga is afraid of her, he ain't stronger. Orga's also oneshottable.
6. It doesn't matter, the attack was physical, thus, the AOE was smaller. A roar which has a large AOE can wreck her. Even at full power, Minerva can only do as much.
Show feats that prove your statement. You rely way too much on statements, hypes and portrayal of a character to gauge their power. It doesn't work like that. How about you try feats for once?
Last edited:
Blackdeath667
Active member
Forbidden Tale
Active member
1. Ability of Evergreen would make nearly anyone to stone. But does that make her no. 1? Silver on the other hand, defeated Natsu, Natsu was in front of him, of the enemy, so Natsu being distracted by just smell, and again he was in front of the enemy. We also know that Silver is capable of frozing whole village by himself and that he trained in order to beat E.N.D., I can respect your opinion, but I found absurb to believe that Natsu is stronger than Silver.
2. Ok. But I disagree with that. Manga never stated that Mira is weaker than Natsu. She is always portrayed as someone close to Erza, I don't see Natsu yet on the level of Erza.
3. Ultear said : 'you made one mistake, I'm leader of 7 kin, someone like you don't have a chance against me". What's the point of mentioning the title, if you are not the strongest. Not to mention that it seems that she was 'favorite student' of Precht and that she was choosen to control Jellal.
4. Well, know you are looking in the stataments, when just a little ago you said that stataments are bs. Orga fought Laxus, Erza fought Minerva, Natsu fought twins, Gray fought Rufus. Look at the power level of FT members. What does that tell you?
5. I will not bother.
Stataments, Hype and portrayel are part of the manga and by that facts, same as feats. If you are going to use feats alone you will end with power level all over the place.
Forbidden Tale
Active member
I would rather go with Silver didn't go all out against Gray. Silver not just that 'one shoted' Natsu, he defeated entire Giant village, and on top of that was ready to take E.N.D. and character like that to be weaker than Natsu....
I wouldn't say that Natsu was always portrayed as stronger than Gray, for me Natsu surpassed Gray in the fight with Precht.
Not really, Mira is better than Natsu in nearly every aspect:
Attack Power: Mira 5/5, Natsu 5/5
Defensive Power: Mira 5/5, Natsu 3/5
Speed: Mira 5/5, Natsu 4/5
Inteligence: Mira 4/5, Natsu 2/5
Special Power: Mira (Pin Upability): 5/5, Natsu (Explosivines) 6/5.
"I'm leader of 7 Kin, someone like you don't have chance against me". Why would she mention 'leader' and someone like you don't have chance 'against leader' if she is not strongest?
Ultear also got stronger post time skip.
Battleworn Orga*
Minerva didn't use full power there either.
It wasn't meant for you.
1. Umm, how exactly does the feat of Silver differ from Evergreen's? They both had stronger opponents in front of them and they both won due to hax. You keep repeating this "defeat", do you think Evergreen defeated Mirajane and Erza as well? I'm not underestimating Silver, his instant freeze is, as it says, instant, same goes for Evergreen the moment the opponent looks at her eyes.
So? Natsu is city block level with a full powered roar. That was a roar from before second origin, logically speaking, it should be much stronger now. Silver lost to a steel ball. It's hard to imagine Natsu's city block roar not burning Silver's corpse. It doesn't matter what you think, what you believe or whatever. Feats prove you wrong, therefore, you are wrong.
2. You keep relying on statements. By that logic, Lucy was never stated being weaker than Jura, therefore, they could be equals. Enough with the portrayal, it gets annoying when I debate with someone who relies on portrayal alone and not feats shown in the series. Feats are raw hard facts and the actual testament of one's power. If you rely on portrayal, you'll always have Natsu below Mirajane. Which obviously hasn't been the case since he had SO.
3. Statements. It's quite funny that the statement was said by herself; a way to hype herself. Because being the leader requires much more than strength? Feats show that Zancrow is above Ultear, I don't know why you're denying that simply because of portrayal. So? Makarov's favorite seems to be Mirajane, are you gonna rank her above Gildarts?
4. I was looking at how highly Orga treats Minerva. If you want me to discard that, fine. Give me feats of Orga that outclass Minerva's yagdo rigora, punches and kicks on Erza and Kagura and being able to low-diff Lucy who's probably just two tiers below her.
Regardless of her feats, she doesn't have what it takes to take out Natsu. Natsu will make a quick work out of her, her mediocre durability helps out a lot on taking her out.
5. Sure. Give me feats and stop relying on portrayal, hypes and statements. You probably already conceded with 5 and 6. There's no shame in that.
No. If the feats are proving otherwise, you can't simply rely on the portrayal and statements. (about power at least)
My power level scaling is just fine when I disregard statements. It's much more than fine than when I rely on portrayal.
Last edited:
TheGrandSage23
Member
Lol at Minerva being able to brawl with Natsu, talk about throwing something random in there. This fight can't go past Med diff and that's because Natsu will be trolling at the beginning of the fight like he usually does(since PoF is off, he won't start bloodlusted), then he get serious, activate LFD and GG.
Minerva being able to teleport a distracted LFD Natsu punch doesn't anything. Natsu was busy fighting Genma and was so focus on him then Minerva slipped in an teleported an attack from a Natsu who didn't even know she was coming. In a battle where they both start on the same battleground and are aware of each other, Minerva has less than 0 chance if winning this.
LFD Natsu wreck her apart. Again I'm still loling at the thought that Minerva can brawl with Natsu(good God, this is hysterical). Natsu has the speed to land legit hits on her, he has the firepower to end this fight with one attack(any of his LFD attacks, be it normal punch or named attacks end Minerva). Heck what does Minerva have in her arsenal put down Natsu in the first place, she hasn't shown anything that suggest she'll take down Natsu. Neo Minerva was crapped and was a total embarrassment..
Anyway, Natsu mid diff her. Bloodlusted LFD Natsu might just appear on her face and unleash one of LFD attack on GG(but bloodlusted Natsu is kind of restricted). Even the nameless punch Natsu used on F Rogue put down Minerva. Natsu just has too much firepowers to fail to put down Minerva beyond mid diff.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
Minerva nor Kagura is blocking that... You're out your damn mind if you think Kagura and Minerva is beating a LFD/Dragon Force Natsu
Last edited:
Forbidden Tale
Active member
1. Silver has feat of defeating whole VIllage and Atlas Flema, does Evergreen have same?
Who said that Silver go all out against Grey?
Did manga ever stated that Silver is weaker than Natsu? No it didn't.
Is there hype that put Natsu above Silver? No, there isn't.
Is there feats that put Natsu above Silver? No, there isn't....
What manga tell me:
- Silver one shoted Natsu.
- Silver defeated whole Village and Atlas Flame
- Franmalth (natsu had trouble with him) refer to Silver as 'sama'.
- Silver lost to Gray, but did he wanted to kill him? No he didn't.
Therefore, how can you use that easy words "You are wrong"?
2. Something is stated, that mean that there are base for that opinion, even if it's wrong. So I don't see what's wrong with that.
Yes, Lucy was never stated to be weaker, but:
1. Jura is one of 10 Sainst.
2. Give Laxus high diff. Laxus was portrayed as one of strongest Fairy Mages and by himself is mage a lot more powerful than Lucy. So do you see what I'm talking about?
3. It don't have to be true, but it is stated, so just that tell us something. She was leader of the group, if she is not strongest, why would anyone accept her as a leader? There don't really like each other. In mostly FT groups, leader = strongest, so I don't see why would there be difference.
How is Mira, Makarov's favorite? Makarov stated that instead of Natsu, Elfman, Lucy, Gray he would go with Gildarts, Laxus, Mira, Erza, so he didn't just said that Mira is stronger than Natsu, he said that at least 4 of them are stronger.
4. Orga treats Minerva, highly because she was daughter of his master. As you said Orga's fights was off panaled, but you can't rank him lowest because he don't have much feats as others. As I said 'facts' = feats + hype + stataments + portray, so I again don't see a problem here.
5. Why would I?
To same extent yes.
Statament = Jura is strong as Gildarts.
Jura lost to Laxus. Now either way, Laxus is stronger than Gildarts or Jura didn't live up to the statament. But as long as they are not proven completely wrong, they are valid.
Last edited:
Dude I see you on everything wanking Natsu talking about all the feat's he has and ignoring anybody else's you are a terrible debater and nobody should take you seriously
1. Silver beat a dragon something which Natsu can't do currently so Sliver>Natsu and current gray>natsu since he has silvers powers ( but I'm sure natsu is about to get another ass pull power up so I'll wait on that) Natsu having a lot of DC has nothing to do with winning this battle haxed or not ice demon slayer magic>fire dragon slayer magic and grey always beats people stronger than him with brains so now that he has ice demon slayer magic I just don't natsu can keep up
3.WTF is wrong with wrong with you Zancrow stronger than Ultear? first of all Time arc affects the time of nonliving things we know this for a fact and she could just move natsu's fire/lighting foreword or backward in time making it nothing.... and since your such a big fan of feats here is one Ultear beat a sealed state Zeref with death magic....you think any of the other Kin could do that?
4. again how will natsu counter her territory magic? you can't say he will win cause of his better base stats because she was able to keep up with erza and kagura both of which have way better strength and durability feats than natsu so plus how will he block her Ih Ragdo, or Yagdo Rigora? sorry but Minerva has the advantage over natsu
5.Orga has more magic power but Minerva has a better ability
6.she can teleport her body away so the roar shouldn't even be a problem plus her max AOE has never been seen or stated
He didn't defeat Atlas Flame, it was a spirit that wouldn't have been able to touch him. Wendy had to use Milky Way to summon his spirit. He didn't defeat the whole village, he froze them. Same way Evergreen turned Erza and Mirajane to stones. That's not one-shotting them. It was hax. If you're gonna give Silver the benefit of the doubt, give it to Evergreen too. But of course that makes too much holes which proves your logic incorrect.
I know he didn't go all out, but do you see the fact that Natsu can tank what Silver has been shown to produce? Natsu tanked Amaterasu 28, which is way way above Demon's Rage. Even if Silver spams him with that attack, Natsu will easily tank it. A steel ball can pierce through him, I doubt Natsu's punch can't simply damage him enough to incapacitation.
Never directly. Are you gonna rank Jura above Gildarts now? Since Makarov said it too? You see? There are a lot of flaws in looking at portrayal and statements, sure it can be useful at certain situations, but when comparing who really is stronger, relying on statements won't get you very far.
Umm, you're using it as a reference, if it's not true, you can't use it as a proof for your points since it would lead to inaccuracy.
Because she was the eldest kin, not literally, the first kin that hades found, that was cannon.
Mirajane is Makarov's favorite since he's practically his assistance. When did he say this? Regardless, it doesn't matter, Makarov knows that Natsu needs to be completely serious in a fight for him to win it, and as you already know, Natsu only occasionally gets serious in fights, usually if it's for protecting people he cares about.
I can, ranking him higher would lead to much more inaccuracy. As you said, it was off-paneled, therefore, we can't base our opinion in our imagination since some stupid people tend to think widely when it comes to those things.
Reply to it if you don't want me to think so
They have been proven wrong. Let me show you the level of inaccuracy of relying on portrayal and statements alone.
We have a hype saying Gildarts is the strongest FT mage, and has always been portrayed to be, the series will probably end up with him still being the strongest, except for maybe, Natsu.
So, from there, Gildarts > Laxus.
Makarov says Jura is equal to Gildarts.
Laxus beats Jura.
Gildarts can now be defeated by laxus?
I'm the kind of guy who rely more on feats than anything else since it shows me the real difference between people. You know Erza will always be above Natsu in portrayal, right? Stop trying to only look at that and look at feats and you'll see how close they really are.
Give feats to prove your statements, not just mere hypes. You'd be legit in other series like Bleach with statements using statements for power-scaling, but FT is different. A hype is just a hype and when you see the character fighting, you'll see them not living up to it. That's usually what happens there. If you really don't agree with using feats alone, then let's agree to disagree.
Last edited:
Gray vs Natsu? LOL. Natsu would stomp Gray.
I am not a Natsu fan, I just find your way of debating disagreeable. You rely more on your opinions of a character to gauge their power when you have feats to actually go by. You're a hater, are you telling me you're not being biased when you say Natsu is only on Gray's level? Or do you want me to show you feats to shame you?
Fail, now you assume I hate Natsu? Thats hilarious, its called Im just stating tje obvious to who he cant beat. You're just wanking his Nakama Power Up Feats. They all have abilities that stomp Natsu, especially Jellal with his Sema