Naruto's Without Kurama

[Gerkak]

He inherited some of her chakra, but as Hagoromo says he didn't inherit their "whole" potential as evidence by Kushina staying conscious when Kurama was ripped from her but Naruto unconscious and his heart not beating.

While I agree without a doubt kushina has a stronger life force than her son, hogoromo saying potential in that instance could have meant anything. Minato for example doesn't have a better physiology than naruto seeing as naruto has bigger reserves of chakra, life force and a stronger body. The 'potential' hogoromo was speaking of could have meant anything e.g ninjutsu skills.

Also I was responding to the OP who said naruto inherited nothing from his parents which is clearly wrong.

 

[itsxtrayy]

According to Hagoromo he inherit nothing

he didn't inherit their "whole" potential but that doesn't mean he inherited nothing.

 

[itsxtrayy]

Kakashi also states that Naruto uses half of his chakra to just suppress the 9 tails. Uzumaki's have crazy high chakra reserves. Don't sell him short and this is coming from a guy who doesn't like Naruto.

I don't remember that scan plz

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

You can't prove that, yes, he has SOME of the Lifeforce evidenced by the fact that he didn't die immediately when Kurama was pulled from him, but his heart did stop beating and he was unconscious compare that with Kushina who was conscious and could talk. Let's use logic here if you were being honest you would say we don't know how much of the uzumaki chakra/life force he inherited, but we do know it's less than Kushina and we don't know if it'd be enough for him to become a top tier ninja. As i said we'd have to go back in time and check his chakra

Thanks captain obvious lol he's not fully Uzumaki. Ofc he'd be top tier. Jiraiya was kage lvl above Tsunade with imperfect SM.

 

[take it easy]

He inherited some of her chakra, but as Hagoromo says he didn't inherit their "whole" potential as evidence by Kushina staying conscious when Kurama was ripped from her but Naruto unconscious and his heart not beating.

Different situations. Naruto fought more than 2 days and used more chakra before Kurama was ripped from him unlike Kushina.

 

[Solidus Solidus Solidus]

Third thread on the topic :hooray:

This was discussed months ago.
The new member here always bring up the old topics instead of using the searchbar :nuts:

 

[itsxtrayy]

While I agree without a doubt kushina has a stronger life force than her son, hogoromo saying potential in that instance could have meant anything. Minato for example doesn't have a better physiology than naruto seeing as naruto has bigger reserves of chakra, life force and a stronger body. The 'potential' hogoromo was speaking of could have meant anything e.g ninjutsu skills.

Also I was responding to the OP who said naruto inherited nothing from his parents which is clearly wrong.

This is where the problem comes in as we know to use sage mode, you need an enormous amount of chakra, which Minato has since he can enter it. But there's no way to know what Naruto's chakra level would be without 16 years of kurama influence. In chapter 315 Kakashi says Naruto only has TWICE as much chakra as him and we know before the war Kakashi's reserves were wack but he said with the kyuubi he had 100 times more chakra than him:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

 

[ANiMUS]

This was discussed months ago.
The new member here always bring up the old topics instead of using the searchbar :nuts:

Yeah, but that's one of the only things keeping this site alive. so what can u do

 

[Gerkak]

This is where the problem comes in as we know to use sage mode, you need an enormous amount of chakra, which Minato has since he can enter it. But there's no way to know what Naruto's chakra level would be without 16 years of kurama influence. In chapter 315 Kakashi says Naruto only has TWICE as much chakra as him and we know before the war Kakashi's reserves were wack but he said with the kyuubi he had 100 times more chakra than him:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

The viz translation said naruto had 4 times as much chakra as kakashi. Also there are ways of knowing, minato was strained when the dark half of the nine tails was sealed within him yet baby naruto felt nothing. Something that can make an adult's(especially an adult ninja) body numb will knock out a new born if not kill it. It is clear that naruto's reserves and life force were what allowed him to resist the negative effects.

Indeed before you ask, I did take into account that minato was just out of a battle, however that gets balanced out by naruto being a new borne.

Also one thing to note is that measuring chakra isn't something kakashi can accurately do seeing as he isn't a sensor types and even skilled sensor types have been shown to get it wrong at times.

 

[itsxtrayy]

Thanks captain obvious lol he's not fully Uzumaki. Ofc he'd be top tier. Jiraiya was kage lvl above Tsunade with imperfect SM.

Irrevelant, Naruto isn't Jiraiya and what do you mean of course? before sage mode naruto was under 3tomoe kakashi and this isn't even war arc kakashi. Naruto's low-mid jonin level with kakashi being hi jonin-low kage. And as I said without 16 years of kyuubi chakra influence who knows where his reserves would be but they'd be lower. So there is no "of course" as you put it.

 

[itsxtrayy]

The viz translation said naruto had 4 times as much chakra as kakashi. Also there are ways of knowing, minato was strained when the dark half of the nine tails was sealed within him yet baby naruto felt nothing. Something that can make an adult's(especially an adult ninja) body numb will knock out a new born if not kill it. It is clear that naruto's reserves and life force were what allowed him to resist the negative effects.

Indeed before you ask, I did take into account that minato was just out of a battle, however that gets balanced out by naruto being a new borne.

Also one thing to note is that measuring chakra isn't something kakashi can accurately do seeing as he isn't a sensor types and even skilled sensor types have been shown to get it wrong at times.

Thanks for the viz translation and I thought the reason his body went numb was because of the dead demon seal and not the chakra itself. But I think your right, but it's implied through Itachi that since the sharingan can see chakra sharingan user can see how much chakra someone has it actually makes a lot of sense:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

I admit that the sealing not killing Naruto is probably the best case for his chakra/life force being really good even without Kurama, you've convinced me. Now, how much chakra is needed to go into sage mode? Naruto being an Uzumaki and having kurama influencing his chakra his whole life only has four times as much chakra as kakashi. This is my main question, take away the Kurama influence and where is Naruto's chakra level? Is it twice as much as kakashi? Their chakra's been mixing for 16 years that has to be a lot of influence. There's just no way to know. Kishi should have made it more than four times it should be like 8.

 

[nightwolf888]

Naruto was designed by Kishi to use Kurama as his power source . It's stupid to hold that against him.

 

[SatanicGod]

Naruto without Kurama:

You must be registered for see images

 

[Guitar Hero]

Keep em coming.

 

[Gerkak]

Thanks for the viz translation and I thought the reason his body went numb was because of the dead demon seal and not the chakra itself. But I think your right, but it's implied through Itachi that since the sharingan can see chakra sharingan user can see how much chakra someone has it actually makes a lot of sense:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Yes the sharingan does have that ability, but as I said it isn't infallible, seeing as sensor types have also misjudged chakra several times. Sasuke misjudged deidara's chakra during their fight too. While kakashi may not have been far off, I wouldn't consider his estimation to be absolute.

I admit that the sealing not killing Naruto is probably the best case for his chakra/life force being really good even without Kurama, you've convinced me. Now, how much chakra is needed to go into sage mode? Naruto being an Uzumaki and having kurama influencing his chakra his whole life only has four times as much chakra as kakashi. This is my main question, take away the Kurama influence and where is Naruto's chakra level? Is it twice as much as kakashi? Their chakra's been mixing for 16 years that has to be a lot of influence. There's just no way to know. Kishi should have made it more than four times it should be like 8.

Anyone who has kage level reserves should be illegible , but that is only part of the requirement. Chakra control and strong bodies are also likewise required.

One thing to also note is naruto's age, naruto was 15 when his reserves were estimated by kakashi, kushina was 24 when she died, that is a 9 year difference. Chakra reserves grow continuously as a shinobi ages up on till they reach their time and a little beyond it only begins to decrease when old age starts to creep in as seen with hiruzen.

Finally naruto's seal was a lot tighter when he was yonger so much so that very little of kurama's chakra leaked into him, naruto's chakra loosened allowing a slightly higher increase in mixture when he first used the beast's chakra in the wave mission. This suggests that naruto for 12 years barely had any kyuubi chakra mixing with his. Without the kyuubi I still believe that naruto would have more chakra than his father, though not by the same margin as in canon.

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

Irrevelant, Naruto isn't Jiraiya and what do you mean of course? before sage mode naruto was under 3tomoe kakashi and this isn't even war arc kakashi. Naruto's low-mid jonin level with kakashi being hi jonin-low kage. And as I said without 16 years of kyuubi chakra influence who knows where his reserves would be but they'd be lower. So there is no "of course" as you put it.

You're so wrong. Kakashi admitted inferiority at one stage. Naruto is BETTER than Jiraiya and he was kage lvl. Perfect SM > imperfect SM...obviously. he'd be much better at SM than Jiraiya, still. There is an of course as Jiraiya didn't even have a noteable clan to give him chakra hype.

 

[itsxtrayy]

Yes the sharingan does have that ability, but as I said it isn't infallible, seeing as sensor types have also misjudged chakra several times. Sasuke misjudged deidara's chakra during their fight too. While kakashi may not have been far off, I wouldn't consider his estimation to be absolute.



Anyone who has kage level reserves should be illegible , but that is only part of the requirement. Chakra control and strong bodies are also likewise required.

One thing to also note is naruto's age, naruto was 15 when his reserves were estimated by kakashi, kushina was 24 when she died, that is a 9 year difference. Chakra reserves grow continuously as a shinobi ages up on till they reach their time and a little beyond it only begins to decrease when old age starts to creep in as seen with hiruzen.

Finally naruto's seal was a lot tighter when he was yonger so much so that very little of kurama's chakra leaked into him, naruto's chakra loosened allowing a slightly higher increase in mixture when he first used the beast's chakra in the wave mission. This suggests that naruto for 12 years barely had any kyuubi chakra mixing with his. Without the kyuubi I still believe that naruto would have more chakra than his father, though not by the same margin as in canon.

You've thorougly convinced me I forgot that the seal weakened over time that's why he couldn't go more than 1 tail in part 1 and the reason he needed to learn to control the kyuubi when he did. Thanks for replying

 

[Gerkak]

You've thorougly convinced me I forgot that the seal weakened over time that's why he couldn't go more than 1 tail in part 1 and the reason he needed to learn to control the kyuubi when he did. Thanks for replying

No problem, I enjoyed this exchange.

Gerkak thanks you.

 

[Nick01]

Who knows how powerful he would have been without Kurama. Definitely more powerful than Sauce.

 

[Berner]

naruto without kurama would be as strong as Jariaya