Naruto's Ending Review

[ministerC4]

Young Obito had same ideals like Naruto.

You heard that?
YOUNG OBITO, older Obito didn't hold those ideals, but Naruto threw the young Obito ideals, that he also shares, back into Obito's mind.... and you know what he called him after they shared the same ideals again?
"The coolest guy ever."
Before they held the same ideals, according to Naruto himself, he hated him more than anyone.

In a way, they all had the same beliefs.

They all wanted peace is all....
I seriously dislike how Naruto handled everyone else who wanted peace, and their form of peace...
"This is wrong, let me TNJ you and lead you to your true self."
Naruto is literally like Jesus, except he literally decides what is wrong and right....

The entire idea was no one knew how to achieve peace correctly, yet everyone ditched their methods of peace, for Naruto's method, and doing so they were portrayed as being guided to the right path..
Yet no one is even supposed to know the correct path to peace.

 

[V h o]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

I think this may be the OP's point in a way. To have the characters go so many things that should have permanent changes in their personalities and psyche, then have them changed by talking, is actually terrible writing. That's why so many fans hate TNJ.

I agree that TNJ is BS. Although all the characters who got TNJ (Nagato/Obito/Sasuke) were all not truly dedicated to their path, if anything them being TNJ emphasizes them being hesitant on their decisions/future path.

 

[New knight48]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

Thats just how naruto is. I like how the villains aren't evil just to be evil. They have their reasons and can be swayed to rethink their actions and morals. It is kind of realistic to be honest. Human personalities are dynamic.

 

[take it easy]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

You heard that?
YOUNG OBITO, older Obito didn't hold those ideals, but Naruto threw the young Obito ideals, that he also shares, back into Obito's mind.... and you know what he called him after they shared the same ideals again?
"The coolest guy ever."
Before they held the same ideals, according to Naruto himself, he hated him more than anyone.

Naruto not hated Obito, but wanted more or less fair punishment for him.

Also, Naruto never called adult Obito " the coolest guy"

Spoiler

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

 

[Urda]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

They all wanted peace is all....
I seriously dislike how Naruto handled everyone else who wanted peace, and their form of peace...
"This is wrong, let me TNJ you and lead you to your true self."
Naruto is literally like Jesus, except he literally decides what is wrong and right....

The entire idea was no one knew how to achieve peace correctly, yet everyone ditched their methods of peace, for Naruto's method, and doing so they were portrayed as being guided to the right path..
Yet no one is even supposed to know the correct path to peace.

I guess Naruto idea for peace were less violent? There's were... immoral.

I agree that TNJ is BS. Although all the characters who got TNJ (Nagato/Obito/Sasuke) were all not truly dedicated to their path, if anything them being TNJ emphasizes them being hesitant on their decisions/future path.

Nagato was manipulated by Obito. Stated by Obito.

Obito seen himself in Naruto. Noted by Kakashi.

 

[ministerC4]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

I agree that TNJ is BS. Although all the characters who got TNJ (Nagato/Obito/Sasuke) were all not truly dedicated to their path, if anything them being TNJ emphasizes them being hesitant on their decisions/future path.

Thats just how naruto is. I like how the villains aren't evil just to be evil. They have their reasons and can be swayed to rethink their actions and morals. It is kind of realistic to be honest. Human personalities are dynamic.

The only actual villains... Kaguya.. and that fodder Naruto negged diffed in chapter 1..... no one cares for Kaguya... everyone hates her in a bad way... that fodder... is a fodder....
Those are some crappy true villains... none badass.....

Even Oro became a victim.. to Itachi.

Naruto not hated Obito, but wanted more or less fair punishment for him.

Also, Naruto never called adult Obito " the coolest guy"

Spoiler

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Like I said, that was after Obito had chosen the Right path, which is Naruto's path..
Go a few chapters before Naruto TNJs Obito, and you'll see the amount of hate he had towards Obito.

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

Naruto is about not giving up and believing in the good no matter what happens. That's the whole story. To establish characters who have lost their path and then bring hope back into their lives. That in no way means no development.

You're measuring development like it has to be displacement instead of distance.

 

[DaemonSpade]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

Lol its one tnj after another, naruto and tnj the best duo team in NV.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

I agree that TNJ is BS. Although all the characters who got TNJ (Nagato/Obito/Sasuke) were all not truly dedicated to their path, if anything them being TNJ emphasizes them being hesitant on their decisions/future path.

That's why it's shitty writing. The extremities of what they went through, as well as the length of time Obito and Nagato were on, should have cemented their views. They shouldn't have been so hesitant and regretful that they change completely after a lecture from a naive 16-year-old bigot.

 

[Urda]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

Like I said, that was after Obito had chosen the Right path, which is Naruto's path..
Go a few chapters before Naruto TNJs Obito, and you'll see the amount of hate he had towards Obito.

Obito killed Neji and was about to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi at the time. Got bested by Naruto and co. Had a talk with Kakashi. Then he heard the truth from Madara.

Obito wanted know why Nagato betrayed him. However, Naruto never gave him an answer because he was worried about Sasuke. Then he said Nagato was easy to manipulate anyway. He was right tho.

 

[ministerC4]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

Naruto is about not giving up and believing in the good no matter what happens. That's the whole story. To establish characters who have lost their path and then bring hope back into their lives. That in no way means no development.

You're measuring development like it has to be displacement instead of distance.

@Bold That's the problem, there was and never was a "right" path, no one knew the "right" path, but once they bandwagoned with Naruto, they had the "right path...

Give it some more thought and realize Naruto literally has no path, in reality all he has ever done was end other's path.
The closest thing he has to a path to peace is him constantly saying "BELIEVE IT, NEVER GIVE UP!"
Wtf that even has to do with peace?

And yeah, bring "hope" into their lives, this "hope" is only the state of mind Naruto wants others to have, which in the end, is his same state of mind... In reality he simply alters personalities to his likings.


@Underlined It literally means little to no development in my book, Sasuke's development was all about sinking steeper into darkness, but in the end gets TNJed and reverted back to "normal" Sasuke, also known as part1 Sasuke.

Literally just ditched all the development into darkness to revert into part1 Sasuke.
Part1 Sasuke's development: "Naruto you weakling." "Hmm so he's not so bad." "My body moved on it's own to protect you."
The journey into darkness starts* "NARUTO YOU'RE SO STRONG.... I NEED POWER."

I feel like Sasuke didn't have enough reason to revert to part1 Sasuke because Naruto simply clashed back to defend himself, and said "Because your my friend." Naruto has been saying it the entire time, yet how come when he's at his darkness, most dense point, where it should be utterly impossible to change him, it works.

Obito killed Neji and was about to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi at the time. Then he heard the truth from Madara.

Obito wanted know why Nagato betray him. However, Naruto never gave him an answer because he was worried about Sasuke. Then he said Nagato was easy to manipulated anyway. He was right tho.

There you have it.
I don't like the idea of people like, Naruto/Sakura changing others to the point they gain the opposite personalities of their current, just so said person could be to their likings.

 

[V h o]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

That's why it's shitty writing. The extremities of what they went through, as well as the length of time Obito and Nagato were on, should have cemented their views. They shouldn't have been so hesitant and regretful that they change completely after a lecture from a naive 16-year-old bigot.

Bigot seems far fetched, but meh. Kishi made it like this, if there views were cemented then they probably would've died and things would've been different. For example, Nagato wouldn't have healed the village (someone else could have), Obito wouldn't have saved Naruto/kakashi and Kakashi wouldn't have gotten his miracle power up, and Sasuke wouldn't came back to the village. Probably some re-writing could have prevent Naruto's death/close to death situation.

Kishi probably could have had less traumatic things for those characters or showed that they were not certain before their ninshu indoctrination.

 

[take it easy]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

Give it some more thought and realize Naruto literally has no path, in reality all he has ever done was end other's path.
The closest thing he has to a path to peace is him constantly saying "BELIEVE IT, NEVER GIVE UP!"
Wtf that even has to do with peace

Naruto's path= work together to obtaining temporary peace.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

Bigot seems far fetched, but meh. Kishi made it like this, if there views were cemented then they probably would've died and things would've been different. For example, Nagato wouldn't have healed the village (someone else could have), Obito wouldn't have saved Naruto/kakashi and Kakashi wouldn't have gotten his miracle power up, and Sasuke wouldn't came back to the village. Probably some re-writing could have prevent Naruto's death/close to death situation.

Kishi probably could have had less traumatic things for those characters or showed that they were not certain before their ninshu indoctrination.

Nah, Naruto is a bigot. He ignores and belittles any viewpoint that either isn't his or doesn't appeal to his in some way.

That would have been fine. Nagato not reviving everyone, or not killing so many, would have been good. Obito could have changed, but not so much. Sasuke as well. The problem is Kishi set up cement, and broke it with glass.

 

[ministerC4]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

Naruto's path= work together to obtaining temporary peace.

Tell me when this is once implied.
Give me one scan, where Naruto speaks of this.
Ashura believed in so, and has been said to, but Naruto is a completely different story.
You can easily speculate so, but Naruto has never said so according to my knowledge, which is why I believe he literally has no path.

Yet others hitch hiked onto his "path", yet they hadn't once heard what his "path" was even about.
Naruto himself never even speaks about what his path is.

 

[V h o]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

Nah, Naruto is a bigot. He ignores and belittles any viewpoint that either isn't his or doesn't appeal to his in some way.

Not really. Majority of those who got "converted" wanted to infringe on others beliefs/rights for their own belief. At least Naruto's didn't, at least to their extent.

That would have been fine. Nagato not reviving everyone, or not killing so many, would have been good. Obito could have changed, but not so much. Sasuke as well. The problem is Kishi set up cement, and broke it with glass.

Yeah the story could have been different. Heck those characters could have not went to the extremes they went to, which promoted this unmovable character stance.

Kishi basically did all this to have a happy ending. Another reason why their is no villain in Naruto imo; everyone wanted something initially good but it went wrong along the way.
Edit:

I guess that is Kishi's point, people going astray just for someone to bring them back.

 

[ministerC4]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

Not really. Majority of those who got "converted" wanted to infringe on others beliefs/rights for their own belief. At least Naruto's didn't, at least to their extent.


Yeah the story could have been different. Heck those characters could have not went to the extremes they went to, which promoted this unmovable character stance.

Kishi basically did all this to have a happy ending. Another reason why their is no villain in Naruto imo; everyone wanted something initially good but it went wrong along the way.

15 Years of a manga about achieving peace, and the main character shows no method towards it...
His closest form of peace portrayed was altering others' personalities with some form of voodoo...
Which was practically forced....

Naruto is an odd story....

 

[SSU]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

Only Nagato's TNJ was BS for me. Sasuke never really had a complete change of heart, he really wanted to help the village. Obito was lying to himself the entire time and playing the part of a masked vigilante just to run away from that.

Now Nagato has just met Naruto and believes in him and his goals, which were pretty much the same goals as Jiraiya. The very same man who Nagato killed...yep.

 

[ministerC4]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

Only Nagato's TNJ was BS for me. Sasuke never really had a complete change of heart, he really wanted to help the village. Obito was lying to himself the entire time and playing the part of a masked vigilante just to run away from that.

Now Nagato has just met Naruto and believes in him and his goals, which were pretty much the same goals as Jiraiya. The very same man who Nagato killed...yep.

I never thought of it that way, I barely tolerated Obito's tnj, but it was understandable.
Sasuke's tnj in my eyes was bs, it could have been legit, but even if it was legit, it'd still be bullshit.
Sasuke himself just shouldn't have been talk no justued like that.

What kind of interaction did Sasuke/Sakura/Naruto even share in part1 before the darkness?
They weren't very different from the interactions with k11, nor were they special enough for Naruto to allow Sasuke to live in a battle that would decide both of their lives, and the lives of millions...

 

[V h o]

Re: Naruto is kind of awful in a way.

15 Years of a manga about achieving peace, and the main character shows no method towards it...
His closest form of peace portrayed was altering others' personalities with some form of voodoo...
Which was practically forced....

Naruto is an odd story....

OK? Not sure why you quoted me Lol