[Predictions] Naruto Manga Chapter 594 Discussion and 595 Predictions

[kitoykitz]

i think soon madara will help fight the masked man...

 

[Higekage]

i think soon madara will help fight the masked man...

Nah man, Madara and Tobi are on the same side. Madara said he shared Tobi's vision. And Tobi's gonna need some heavy backup considering edo tensei was lifted.
I wonder one thing.. How can Orochimaru not be interested in the war? If he is affected by the infinite tsukuyomi, then he would surely want to stop Tobi. And if he isn't affected, he would surely want Tobi to succeed so he can basically collect whatever he wants from the world since everybody is controlled by the moon genjutsu. And can Tobi control Sharingan users? Wouldn't Orochimaru want Sasuke under genjutsu so he can take his body? Gah I have so many ****ing questions!

 

[Kyno]

That's the Rinnegan 'cause So6P gave it to his elder son.
It is said that the Sharingan and the Bjakugan derived from
the ocular jutsu of the Sage himself.
Since Tobi said he gave the Rinnegan to Nagato, it follows that
he's "switched down" to the Sharingan, also due to his plan of faking to be Madara.
The image of the Sage's son is tricky because of the "amarcord" drawing style of
it, rendering the very very old time of his youth.

Its not rinnegan. Look it up on the wiki. and plus the spiral of the jutsu is not that of the rinnegan, more particularly not the one nagato had, so its not the same.

 

[Killa B]

Guy: "Just... Who are you...?!"
Tobi: "You don't remember faces, so what point is there in telling you ?" <--- Translation: What's the point in telling you who I am when you didn't even remember who Kisame was the second time you fought him ? The next day you would forget who I am... <--- Tobi was being ironic to Guy sensei !
People I was also fooled the first time I read what Tobi said.

Guys don´t just skip pages and talk so easily like Kakashi!!! This dude right here simply explains the phrase that Tobi said!! It's easy tough! I totally agree with you, but Kishi has to explain how can zetsu can record things and how can Tobi see it!!

Awsome chapter!! little time wasted on explaining things that we already know but still it make me wonder about Kurama knowing who is the Ten Tails? Does he has a name? Wasn´t all the tailed beasts ONE that made the Jyuubi? If so how come Kurama knows the Jyuubi?

One other thing that I've noticed and I have to ask is...well the holes on Tobi mask, and the marks on the fan's (tobi's weapon) aren´t the same as the Curse Mark that Oro uses? Got me intrigued!

P.S... Kishi, make the next chapter getting us jerking off at the end xd

 

[Kyno]

You might want to look at the manga panels again or even the anime to see Tobi's half revealed face. Those are indeed wrinkles coming from his eyes, not scars.

Also, we know that Madara died shortly after his fight with the First Hokage. Obito wasn't even born during those times, so how could he be trained by Madara?

The Obito theory was created simply because of some similarities in Tobi's appearance, but there are a lot of facts that make the theory a relatively weak one, especially when compared to other possibilities such as Tobi being Izuna, Kagami, or the elder son of SO6P.

There is evidence for both sides. II am starting to see more and more truth in the kagami argument, but i am just defending the obito argument, which is completely valid in itself. I created my theory for obito before I even joined this site. My theory has nothing to do with appearance except for the small fact of his mask eye placement.

 

[Genjitxu]

Is Tobi the one who knows everything? The answer to that may have to do with why various members of akatsuki joined in the first place. What was the motivation of someone like Orochimaru to join other than to learn and have access to jutsu.

 

[AbBoOd]

cooooooooooooooooooooooooool.. nice switch between naruto and kurama

 

[Kyno]

You might want to look at the manga panels again or even the anime to see Tobi's half revealed face. Those are indeed wrinkles coming from his eyes, not scars.

Also, we know that Madara died shortly after his fight with the First Hokage. Obito wasn't even born during those times, so how could he be trained by Madara?

The Obito theory was created simply because of some similarities in Tobi's appearance, but there are a lot of facts that make the theory a relatively weak one, especially when compared to other possibilities such as Tobi being Izuna, Kagami, or the elder son of SO6P.

By the way, not elder son, probably not izuna, could be kagami. what chapter do you see the wrinkles again?

 

[Omningan]

Well, I understand some of your points (by the way 1-4 was true) but even though i am starting to shift more to kagami than obito,there is still flaw in your arguments. Pertaining to 5, when somebody saves your life, you will probably be willing to listen to them. With promises of true peace, the same promises that tobi speaks of now, madara could have easily persuaded him to join his side. Especially since madara as a master sharingan user is probably great at influencing peoples decisions. Tobi believes that he is good as well. He has said time and time again that his goal is to create a world of truth. I would not say this is completely good, but it is certainly not completely of a wrong intention. Just as Nagato was used, Tobi could be being used just as much. I'm not saying that he is but im saying we dont know that he has evil intentions, just his methods are evil.

Onto 6, what evidence do you have that tobi taught madara about those things (i wont repeat them all)? Even if madara couldnt learn this information himself, there still is no probable cause that it was tobi who was the one who taught him. And why wouldnt madara know. Itachi knew himself about mangekyo, about izangi, and about izanami, and the entire story behind it. Unless Itachi was in cohorts with madara and tobi at some point, that would make this information maybe not completely available to everybody, but madara would have been able to figure it out. For your next bit, pretty much everything you said was due to his sharingan ability, his space time ninjtsu, and attained knowledge. He has shown no power, he has just shown extremely effective passive skills. Oh and the regenerative body parts I believe is a product of reconstruction from zetsu's white body. He was not stabbed in the chest ever. Minato put a tag on him not a kunai. Then he removed his control over the nine tails. Also the Rasengan was anincomplete jutsu at that time. it barely scratched most of him. It looked deadly but most of what it did was it put a whole on his clothes on the impact spot and it thrashed his body up. That is not a matter of tobi's strength, but rasengans weakness. Most of the impressive things you wrote on that list were due to his space time ninjutsu, so there is pretty much one factor you are considering in all those examples you listed. His power is completely unknown. All we know is that because he can become invulnerable and he has rinne and sharingan, he is effective. Beyond his space time ninjutsu hes had one taijutsu fight and that is the extent to which we know his "power". If even konohamaru had the power to be invulnerable, he would be an incredible threat to everybody. Although what makes it even more threatening is his manipulative force. He is manipulating and controlling so many things, and naruto and friends can fight the products of his persuasion, but they cannot attack the root of the problem. That is why tobi is so dangerous. Also now because he has the incomplete ten tails. Only now will we see his true power as he has to become vulnerable at some point in order to defend the juubi. So dont tell me how powerful he is until we see him actually do something. Even now itstoo late, because tobi has had time to develop some skills. Only if he does something completely absurd that isnt due to the rinne gan would I say that there is no way obito could have learned that in almost 20 years (since his boulder incident). All he needed to learn is one space time ninjutsu in 3 years is not an impractical idea.

Lack of initial skill is nothing in the face of hard training and a great sensei. Madara did have contact with tobi, and if tobi is madara, training and teaching is definitely what took place. All that he learned in 3 years was how to use sharingan and a space time ninjutsu (to our knowledge), and if he was rolling with madara, this was definitely not an impractical feat.

Tobi is not the Elder son. First and foremost, and probably all I need to say, even though he is the uchiha elder, he did not have the sharingan. His dojutsu was more similar to rinnegan than sharingan. right there should be enough evidence, but I can share more. If tobi was as wise as the elder was, I feel like he would have known that minato was smarter than to just run into somebody who he just figured out was invulnerable and had run through it twice. Even I would probably think the third time if he does the same thing he probably has a plan. That was an unwise move by tobi and I dont think someone as old as the elder son would be as unwise. And I believe that being the son of the so6p would make you faster than any other person, yet minato escaped with ease his attack without using space time ninjutsu. That just doesnt seem like something possible against the son of the strongest ninja ever. And why would he pose as madara? Madara must have been weaker than him, and he at least smarter than madara if he taught madara everything he knows as you said. It would be much more intimidating for him to say I am the son of the creator of everything you know.

I may not be correct in my guess, but at least i have evidence to back up my point. He's just not the elder son. My first point on that part should explain enough.

first i want to say that i appreciate you reading my post and taking the time to respond. i wanted to pay you the same courtesy.

anything that breaks up the ground when it pushes you into it, hurts...

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also this is him getting stabbed in the chest like i said...2nd frame draws blood.

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also...
you shouldnt assume that the one picture we have been provided on the sages elder son tells you everything you need to know.
images can change...for instance...
the ten tails then...

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the ten tails now...

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these arent real images like looking at naruto and tobi on the battlefield. these are images of what someone imagines they may have looked like. who alive in teh naruto story could even DESCRIBE what the rikudou's sons looked like? hell most of the ninja world considers the sage of six paths to be a myth. even kakashi was in doubt when he heard the story.

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you talk like you know about the elders son's doujutsu as if that defines him.
what was his name?
how much older than his brother is he?
When did he die?
how did he die?
who was his mother?

...the point is that you dont really know anything about him. so its difficult to say that tobi is definitely not the elders son. if you cant put real evidence against him, then he is still a possibility. a picture doesnt define someone. look at kakashi for instance...he keeps his face covered every moment we've ever seen him. hair styles can change, and apparently even eyes can change. if he had one pair of eyes, maybe he lost them, or traded them up. if hes been alive hundreds of years maybe he has replaced body parts or changed hair styles a few times. we know for sure that he has changed masks at least 2x like was said. also i would ask you to remember that the sage became a living god because he was the jinchuuriki of the juubi. it stands to reason that his son would be powerful, but not of the god like power that the sage possessed, as the sons were not (as far as we know) jinchuuriki's much less the jinchuuriki of the juubi. also, lets remember that learning space time ninjutsu is not easy or even necessarily possible. kakashi took years to create and perfect his kamui and be able to use it. I believe he developed it off of the tsukiyomi that itachi put him in. he is the copy ninja and created the chidori... if space time ninjutsu was easy to learn, why hasnt madara used it? why hasnt sasuke or itachi learned it? some eyes have some abilities...its obvious that tobis sharingan eye that he prefers to use, has the ability of space time jutsu...his invulnerability isnt something to be underestimated... who else can do that?? name one other person in the whole series that can become ethereal! i love it!

what im doing is not taking tobi's name or the way he looks to define who he is... Im taking what he believes in, what power ratings he has, how other characters perceive him, what level of knowledge he has about different subjects, and im making an educated decision. some of it is fact based and other parts are intuitive. the real defining trait about tobi is his complexity. he has more power, knowledge, and longevity than anyone in the series. This places him in a position of power. He can pretend to be whoever he wants, and no one can deny him that, because they cant get ahold of him and force him to do anything. name one thing that anyone has ever done to force tobi into doing something against his will. name one time that anyone really surprised him. name one time that he was in a situation where he wasnt the one with the knowledge and power. you cant do it. he got over confident fighting Minato, that is true and obvious. Minato was chosen to be hokage and became a legend for a very good reason. minato was a one of a kind ninja. he stopped tobi, stopped the kyuubi and saved the village. all while empowering his son to be able to do the same thing in time.

the issue is that tobi can be ruled out of being just about everyone we know of...except the sages elder son...

 

[animemomontherun]

I didn't like the chapter.
It only confirmed my suspicions.
1/5

And what suspicions are those? Care to elaborate?

 

[Killa B]

And can someone show me Muu beeing free from the edo tensei? Cuz i didn't see him goin!

 

[vUmbrav]

There is evidence for both sides. II am starting to see more and more truth in the kagami argument, but i am just defending the obito argument, which is completely valid in itself. I created my theory for obito before I even joined this site. My theory has nothing to do with appearance except for the small fact of his mask eye placement.

Okay I joined this forum so I can put an end to this Obito delusion.

There is only one simple full-proof logical reason for why Tobi is not Obito. Tobi said that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan. Jiraiya met Nagato when he was a kid and made him his first student. Then he had Minato as a student. Minato then had Obito as a student. How is it then, could Obito have given Nagato the Rinnegan. The only explanation is if he went back in time (before he was born) to give it to Nagato. That doesn't explain how Obito OBTAINED the Rinnegan either. But that would be absurd.

It is physically impossible for Tobi to be Obito because of the enormous time inconsistencies. Kishi has you guys fooled man. Just look what he did in that panel when Tobi said "you can't remember faces" etc. The panel was next to a panel of Kakashi to trick you. This is called juxtaposition. An obvious ploy to get people to ride the Obito banwagon.

Personally I'm leaning towards Kagami because there is no real reason to conclude that Tobi could be anyone at this point. No clues add up to come to a reasonable answer. Kagami has no background and thus makes him the most open character to fit as Tobi. The other theories need Tobi to fit as that character. You could say that he's a side character in which we know nothing about. But we also know practically nothing about Zetsu at all besides some abilities of his. There is still a lot of information being excluded on purpose.

 

[Malebolgia]

By the way, not elder son, probably not izuna, could be kagami. what chapter do you see the wrinkles again?

Throughout chapter 397. And yes Kagami would fit the role nicely, but that's mainly because we know nothing about him.

 

[squigles]

Here's who Tobi is NOT:

1. Obito - The timeline of when Tobi attacks the village would put Obito as a young boy. Obito was also killed by a bunch of big ****ing rocks. Obito also has no reason to hate anyone in the Leaf Village.

2. Tobirama - The second hokage was a Senju, a staunch supporter of peace and willing to sacrifice his life for Konoha. His final act before death was to name Hirzen Sarutobi as 3rd Hokage. Then he was killed by the Gold and Silver brothers.

3. Kagami - Was one of the ninjas who studied under Tobirama and Hashirama. Has absolutely zero motive to want to destroy the leaf village. It's a stretch for him to know anything about the So6P, let alone about Madara vs Hashirama, the Juubi, ect, ect, ect. You might as well say 'Tobi is Kabuto' if you think that Kagami is Tobi.

The only people who are left to be Tobi:

1. Izuna - Has motive and opportunity. The only thing that would stop him from being Tobi is if he were actually dead, which we don't know for certain.

2. Setsuna - One of the dissenters just before Madara was outcast. Also has motive and opportunity.

 

[potheadsage]

Kagami Uchiha is way older than kakashi and he was around the first shinobi war can't be him so my guess is obito because he didn't sound angry or shock when kakashi sensi made that statement

Fist off Tobi is fought the forth when obit and kakashi were both kids. Obito was a screw up until he awakened the Sharingan. Plus Obito was the 4th
's student. do you really think Obito could have fooled the 4th. TOBI IS NOT OBITO maybe obitos dad ot grandpa.

 

[stigie78]

What does tobi mean when he says: "i am sorry, there is something i can not part with "

 

[potheadsage]

ok just wanted to talk a bit about how i think Tobi will be stopped in the next issue if not by Naruto. I really think Madara is going to show up and say this is my plan bug off tobi and i will take the kuybi while im at it. Tobi will protest and say this isn't your show anymore look i have power and your dead. huh wait how are you alive again. (they fight) madara gets into it with naruto starts to respect him then sasuke shows up. not exactly that order but possivble things to come.

 

[tatonation39]

Awesome chapter its going down next week. Also idk why but i feel like tobi might tell us who he is cause of how he spoke to kakashi. Still AWESOME!!

 

[Kyno]

Okay I joined this forum so I can put an end to this Obito delusion.

There is only one simple full-proof logical reason for why Tobi is not Obito. Tobi said that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan. Jiraiya met Nagato when he was a kid and made him his first student. Then he had Minato as a student. Minato then had Obito as a student. How is it then, could Obito have given Nagato the Rinnegan. The only explanation is if he went back in time (before he was born) to give it to Nagato. That doesn't explain how Obito OBTAINED the Rinnegan either. But that would be absurd.

It is physically impossible for Tobi to be Obito because of the enormous time inconsistencies. Kishi has you guys fooled man. Just look what he did in that panel when Tobi said "you can't remember faces" etc. The panel was next to a panel of Kakashi to trick you. This is called juxtaposition. An obvious ploy to get people to ride the Obito banwagon.

Personally I'm leaning towards Kagami because there is no real reason to conclude that Tobi could be anyone at this point. No clues add up to come to a reasonable answer. Kagami has no background and thus makes him the most open character to fit as Tobi. The other theories need Tobi to fit as that character. You could say that he's a side character in which we know nothing about. But we also know practically nothing about Zetsu at all besides some abilities of his. There is still a lot of information being excluded on purpose.

Congrats. You've officially taken away most of the credibility from the obito discussion, except for the fact for at least me i believe that madara gave the rinnegan to nagato. However you have still taken away a significant chunk of his credibility by clarifying his place in the naruto timeline, and have probably destroyed the theory for many other obito users. Thank You.

I have been leaning more and more towardsa obito, and after reading this, I think obito is not impossible but kagami is more practical without more explanation from kishi.

If i knew how to +rep, i would for you.

EDIT: However I will still defend all defendable points about obito because if its not obito i will be trolled for the rest of my life.

 

[squigles]

Congrats. You've officially taken away most of the credibility from the obito discussion, except for the fact for at least me i believe that madara gave the rinnegan to nagato. However you have still taken away a significant chunk of his credibility by clarifying his place in the naruto timeline, and have probably destroyed the theory for many other obito users. Thank You.

I have been leaning more and more towardsa obito, and after reading this, I think obito is not impossible but kagami is more practical without more explanation from kishi.

If i knew how to +rep, i would for you.

EDIT: However I will still defend all defendable points about obito because if its not obito i will be trolled for the rest of my life.

Who cares if your theory is ruined? It's been known for a long time that Tobi is not Obito. Simply based on the fact that the 4th dies when he fights Tobi, and Obito died before that. On top of that, the Kakashi gaiden chapters take place 10 years before the first series starts.... which would be when Naruto is 3. But according to Kishi, Minato dies on his birthday, 13 years before. In addition, at the time of Kakashi Gaiden, Minato is not yet the Hokage, as there is no carving of his face amongst the rest of the Kages.

The 3rd great ninja war is a key point in the story because it takes place so close to when the manga starts. However, certain things are not adding up. However, it's completely proven then Obito died and thus cannot be Tobi.