Jabz, thanks for the nice comments, man. I'm glad you like my post. I will try to respond to your post, although some of it is pretty far out there, I might come off a little harsh, so please forgive.
many thanks for the reply omni, kinda cramp in time these days.
...no forgiveness to bear man. as i said, am a big fan. much praise that you replied to the post. harsh or not, i learn a lot from friendly conversations. it is always fun in this forum dude.
In regards to the sage of the six paths...
I don't believe that So5P even makes any sense, of course he was never called that... He didnt even really become a massive legend until he saved the world from the Juubi, in my opinion. That is probably when he became known as the SO6P. The legend that Madara tells and that we hear other characters talk about isn't the sage before his fight with the Juubi. It is only after he conquers the Juubi and obtains its chakra, becoming the first Jinchuuriki that he becomes legend. It is the powers he had BEFORE the fight with the Juubi that allowed him to beat the Juubi. Think about Naruto fighting the Kyuubi. He had sage(nature chakra), he had wind(element chakra), he had uzumaki(mom), he had senju(dad, imo), and he had uchiha(itachi, imo). You can debate the last 2, but the first 3 aren't debatable. He used sage rasengans, wind rasengans, and had his mom's help. Without those 3 powers he would have been unable to defeat the Kyuubi. Same applies for the SO6P vs the Juubi. He would have been unable to defeat the Juubi if not for his preexisting powers. Did he have ALL 6 PATHS BEFORE the Juubi? I say no. I say the 6th path that made him famous, that made him the legend, that made him the one and only SO6P was his defeat and sealing of the monster, the Juubi. I can't prove this anymore than you can prove the opposite, but this speaks to me as truth.
Use your own judgement to decide, but only Kishi can tell us one way or the other, if he ever does. I've given all the reasons I can, to prove my opinion.
...from what i understood, the rikudo was already a "god" (sage so to speak) even before he defeated the monster bewildering the shinobi lands. for prior to his battle with the bijuu, his conquest of the the evil was the primary quest to achieve peace for all the lands. the monster's defeat catapulted his reputation to all time high. his legend was there long before he got to solve the bijuu problem. i may not be able to prove this to you now in as much as you cant find the evidence he wasnt the sage we are referring to now. madara exactly pictures the rikudo as the bijuu's conqueror because we know of his plans and intentions. the rikudo was not even the a jinchuuriki before the juubi puzzle. he became the first host for the chakra/power concern that the monster would eventually recreate his "monster-ness". madara, a monster himself, would really love to get hold such a tremendous power for his own purposes and self satisfaction. the rikudo was a rikudo, little we know of his mystery paths, similarly to Naruto as Naruto with our hope and desires he develops his truest potential to be the next in line as "a rikudo heir". the rikudo was the origin of all the powerful identities of every clan we try to identify with. his dna is the dnas split to all the three paths you mention. i could only conceive "a god's dna" to be a gift and not as a path or a splitted dencendants' paths to master. the juubi was a freak of nature. it existed in the time a "great peace advocate" was watching over a troubled world. this advocacy of peace would only be tainted by the devil in prowl should the rikudo(in all of his 6 paths prowess) failed to stop the said freak of nature.
i only have naruto wiki as proof that the rikudo was indeed the so6p, and not so5p + the juubi's chakra. i believe that you would have none...
...we also only have jiraiya's stories and that of madara's. eventhough jiraiya's tale is a bit short in substance, i'd rather believe it than the quantity madara's narrations offer. jiraiya more than tickled Naruto's mind...so does it has mine...
a better question could be...could Naruto be the SO6P without the kyuubi's power?...the answer is a resounding YES! the kyuubi or the bijuu is not a requirement to be the next so6p -- at least for me
Moving along to another subject...Liars.
A liar is not incapable of telling the truth, and an honest man, is not incapable of telling a lie. There is no way that you can catch Madara in one lie and then assume that everything else he has said is a lie. That just doesn't work. Yes, I agree, that he lied to Sasuke, BIG TIME. He said that the Kyuubi attacking Konoha was a natural disaster. The funny thing about this, is that Sasuke KNEW he was being lied to. Itachi told Sasuke before he died, that Madara was responsible for the attack on Konoha, that Madara controlled the Kyuubi using his Sharingan and initiated the devastating attack on Konoha. It is obvious why Madara lied to Sasuke...he was trying to put Sasuke in his pocket, trying to recruit Sasuke to his team. He desperately needs Sasuke for his plans. He thought that by telling Sasuke the truth, that Sasuke would reject him. The crazy part is, that Sasuke knew, and didnt really care about it. Sasuke is content to be used by Madara, just as he was content to be used by Orochimaru. Sasuke uses these people just as much as they use him, and when he doesn't need them anymore, he stabs them in the back and then moves on. (i.e. kakashi, orochimaru, karin, and soon...Madara, imo)
So my point is that, just because Madara lied to Sasuke about ONE thing. Does NOT mean that he lied to Konan about Izanagi and himself. It does NOT mean that he lied to the Kages about the Juubi and the SO6P. It does however mean that he is capable of lying when the time is right, and that we shouldn't blindly trust anything he says. Not that I blindy trust anyone, not even Kakashi. Everyone is capable of lying at anytime about anything. You have to use your own judgement to discern the truth from the lies. I believe that on the whole, Madara is a very truthful person. He likes to tell people what they didn't know. It gives him great satisfaction. He enjoyed telling Sasuke the truth about Itachi. He enjoyed telling the kages the truth about his moon's eye plan. He enjoyed telling Kisame that he is Madara. He enjoyed telling Konan who he is and how powerful he is as he killed her. Don't let yourself doubt the truth, just because you think the source, is a liar. In that way, you are blinding yourself.
...as a lookout for peace and freedom, i will side with honesty. an honest person is a credible person. why would one lie if he knows he would not be able to get that thing he lies for? credibility has always been a great factor of evidences. if madara's threats and doings serve his purposes of fear and hatred, i would not even conceive of an idea i would believe him. yes, he says he will get the rinnegan. he did so and killed konan. he had all the capability to snatch the "eyes of power" without looking for a "bloodbath". say it isnt so...
sasuke could have been making a fool out of madara if he knows re "the kyuubi's attack" as told by minato. sasuke is indeed using madara for the good this time. the only one whom sasuke laid his hands with is orochimaru...and we know why. should sasuke be telling lies now...i guess his credibility stays. unlike madara, i just cant picture him to be honest..even just once. it is not a matter of what he says now that i should believe...it is what he does. i have to wait that he does what he says. should there are things in what he says left undone...then those are lies. besides, gruesome things like killing torune just to witness edo tensei's variant on fuu would not lead me to believe his words. he must act his words to make me believe ...so to say.
i also tried to be objective in viewing things re madara...i just cant. madara should be treated in a subjective way. i dont infer others are seeing him the same. but i greatly admire him as a villain. i truly disdain his lies. i can never see the truth in him...dire say i am blind to look at whatever he has to show as a judgment. he is not a good man to bear any truth about goodness. i guess you view him subjectively as well...
I gotta be honest that I'm not really feeling your six paths theories, they are not very believable. I won't go into reasons why. I explained what I thought very intricately. My theories are well backed by example and reason. You have to be able to do the same with yours or else no one will believe them, whether they are true or false. If you can make them plausible then I will be happy to debate and even maybe believe.
...and about my paths...
how about equating it with your paths...
love --- senju hashirama
hate---uchiha madara
sacrifice---uzumaki nagato
just to know you get to feel them. they could be vague and wide as our hunt for the paths, but my paths are relatively safer...am working on the yin yang diagram..
should you view them still unbelievable, i think your paths are similarly not getting into your senses too...
then, it might be better not to expound them afterwards...
i hope i could sign in earlier next time. discussions are getting quite interesting.
