Naruto even without the kyubi would still be kage level

Poparu · May 6, 2012

Some seem to forget that the forum is about if Naruto would be Kage level without the Kyubi.

Naruto would be Kage level, because simply stating, if Gaara can still be Kage level without being a Jinchuuriki, then saying that Naruto can't is saying that he is not stronger than Gaara. Which I hope you all believe is not the case.

Akai Hime · May 6, 2012

naruto the one and the only perfect ninja

Ultimatevirus · May 6, 2012

he would atleast be near a kage level if not near

kauchemar13 · May 6, 2012

simply accurate

Sasuno Tsawaki · May 6, 2012

He is kinda kage I guess. Right now BASE Naruto is Jounin SM Naruto is Special Jounin or Kage BM Naruto is KAGE or up.

UnrealSoul · May 6, 2012

Itachi Namikaze said:
Try telling that to Tsunade. Or how about the third raikage? Didn't a clone in SM defeat the third raikage?

And how about getting Pain down to his last path? What other current kage could do that?

So your post failed because a clone of Naruto, with like 1/15th of the normal chakra, in Sage Mode, beat a kage level ninja. Not only that, Naruto's Sage Mode clone beat one of the strongest kages to date.

So imagine a dozen Naruto clones in SM running around. Now that he has perfected SM he can spam clones and have them all in SM as soon as he makes them.

I think that right now Naruto, if he did not have the Kyuubi, would be the second strongest (current) kage below Onoki, only because Naruto would not have a counter to dust release, and Naruto cannot fly.

We are talking about base naruto not SM or BM or KM naruto.Just letting you know that or you just wanted to make him look stupid...:sy:

Also obviously the original poster is a fanboy...

foolish uchia · May 6, 2012

becase kakashi said that naruto has 100 times chakra then average but because kyubi he had only 4 time left

Nikohru · May 6, 2012

He'd be strong but not Kage level. Everything he learned that surpassed the others was as a result of Kyuubi's chakra. No long explanation needed :|

Dribbles · May 6, 2012

*Naruto without the kyuubi*

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I dont normally make threads like this, due to how stupid it makes you look when morons decide to flame you with absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support their statement. But i seen a thread and decided to give a shot at convincing some Naruto haters on the base that Naruto is ATLEAST medium kage level without the kyuubi.

Lets look at his talents in base mode:

1. Massive amounts of chakra
Naruto has been shown in the manga to have so much chakra, that he can pull off literally hundreds of shadow clones and still have PLENTY of chakra to continue the fight for a much longer period. He can outlast almost any character other then jinchuuriki's and characters like A in a long-term battle.

2. Shadow Clones
Naruto's trademark technique from the beginning of the manga. His become so intelligent in using it in so many aspects and can manipulate his shadow clones to turn into almost anything. As i stated before he can create hundreds of shadow clones and can easily overwhelm many enemies. He uses it in combination with his Rasengan mainly, which is a 1-hit ko move against most enemies. He can hide his shadow clones anywhere on the battleground as shown in many situations.

3. Rasengan
The Rasengan is an S-Class technique with an extremely powerful force that it can literally leave a hole gaping inside an enemy. It doesnt take much effort other then a shadow clone to create and can easily take out alot of enemies. I wont get into the other larger Rasengans, as they are just big rasengans with different names. But imagine getting hit by a giant rasengan, i dont think there would be anything left. Sort of like a mini spirit bomb from goku

Now lets take a look at Sage Mode.

1. Massive strength.
Sage Mode grants the user massive strength probably comparable to Tsunades power. The first time we seen Naruto use it in battle was when he literally lifted Pain's Rhino summon and threw it hundreds of metres into the air, getting hit by Naruto in sage mode would defiantly be fatal as seen when Naruto smacked pain across the face [ Without even touching him, just using the nature chakra around him ] and killed him.

2. Sensory Abilities.
Sage Mode has shown to give some of the best sensory abilities seen in the Narutoverse. As soon as he entered the village he could tell who was who just by standing there and feeling their chakra. Its sensory abilities can possibly surpass the byakugan in terms of range and accuracy. This allows for Naruto to be able to dodge many attacks, as seen when he dodged the 3rd Raikages Raton Attack with ease and made him attack himself all in one move. [ The 3rd Raikage used the same technique as A, the Raton Armour, so you can expect him to be atleast half as fast as A ] Easily qualifies in the top 3 sensor ninja in the Narutoverse.

3. Speed
Naruto, being the slow ninja that he is normally, needs a speed increase to compete with the Kage level ninja in shippuden Naruto. Sage Mode's speed isnt as much as many other techniques out there, but it defiantly grants Naruto the dexterity needed to land a hit on enemies with the Rasengan.

4. Rasenshuriken
The Rasenshuriken has been hyped to be extremely powerful ever since Naruto first used it against Kakuzu. Its destructive power is so immense that it left Naruto unable to use it because it disrupted his chakra channels in base mode. The Rasenshuriken attacks at the enemies chakra channels and when hit, they are unable to manipulate chakra. [ Thats if theres anything left really after being hit with a Rasenshuriken ] Its blast radius is quite massive and would be extremely hard to avoid even if you were to dodge the intial strike.

Theres defiantly more i could get into, but i really cant be bothered typing more. Naruto is DEFIANTLY medium kage level without the kyuubi, imo high kage level. If your still saying his only S-Class Jounin level... I dont know how to help you..

Sorry for the wall of text, goodnight Narutobase.

^^^^^^^^^
Copy and pasted my thread. Goodnight narutobase xD

Red Slayer · May 6, 2012

kakshi is low kage level.

Sage mode Naruto>>>>>>>>>Kakashi

EL MAGNIFICO · May 6, 2012

Learning and inventing r two different things .....so what u said abt minato and naruto was crap ....
and yeah i agree that naruto wud still b kage level ...

Rapid · May 6, 2012

Yea sage mode is pretty strong but he would've been dead without the kyuubi in this war

Nikohru · May 6, 2012

EL MAGNIFICO said:
Learning and inventing r two different things .....so what u said abt minato and naruto was crap ....
and yeah i agree that naruto wud still b kage level ...

Yes he would still be kage level, but not at the age he is now. He learned everything in less the time coz of kyubbi... if it weren't for that chakra, he may not have reached kage level for at least a 2 years or so

huzaifa555 · May 6, 2012

Nice thread

Rafeal brown · May 6, 2012

Yes, without the kyubi naruto still possess the potential to become a kage level ninja but base naruto is no where near kage level... He's probably chunnin/jounin level ninja.

Drakengard · May 6, 2012

If we're talking about current base Naruto than he can potential be Kage level. Remember that Kakashi said that Naruto surpassed him after fighting Kakuzu. Whenever Naruto gets a new power-up, people can tend to forget the previous incarnation. Don't forget that base Naruto can still summon toads.

xxSAGExx · May 6, 2012

Naruto9001 said:
Im about to clarify to all the naruto haters why naruto even without the kyubi is kage level or higher.

Naruto learned the rassengan in 3 days something that took Minato who was a once in a decade genius according to Jiraya that means naruto's potiental surpasses even a once in a decade genius

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as said here.

Kakashi who is kage level starts wondering if BASE Naruto surpassed him.

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He surpassed Minato in terms of the rassengan by learning to change the chakra nature of it and learning the rasenshuriken something that a genius like Minato was trying to do his whole life.

I know some people say that naruto is pathetic because he needs a shadow clones to do the rassengan but most ninjas cant do the rassengan it would take even talented ninjas probadly decades to do it with or without clones the only reason Kakashi did it was because of his sharington and even then it probadly took him several years to copy it perfectly.

Naruto who was trainning to learn sage mode in a very short period of time surpassed jiraya in the technique learning a perfect sage mode.

SM Naruto put up a great fight aganist Pain i know he had intel on him and it took him to go up until the 8 tails to beat him but for him in sage mode to put up a fight aganist a rinnegan user he must be kage level with or without intel.

I hope i got though to you Naruto haters.

You do know Naruto wasn't at full power in Sage mode when he fought Pain right? He was training before that and split his power evenly among his two clones that were gathering natural chakra. Naruto vs. Neji the whole splitting his chakra evenly thing was explained so Naruto was around 1/3 his power and if he was able to fuse with Ma and Pa toad hen he would have been at full power.

yuan of cruxis said:
Speacial Jonin-Naruto

Im sorry but without Kyuubi he cant stand to a Kage level ninja

Funny lol That's why Naruto beat 5 of Pains high jounin/kage level bodies before Kurama took over? And it was Naruto who kill the 6th Pain too. You do know when Naruto use shadow clones he splits his chakra evenly among them right? (if not go back to the Naruto vs Neji fight) Naruto was training before fighting pain and split his power with the 2 clones that were gathering natural chakra so he fought Pain at 1/3 his strenght. Now imagine how it would go with 100% Naruto who can fuse with Ma and Pa toad. It was a weaken clone that went SM, figured out the 3rd Raikage's weakness and beat him. I say weaken because It's one of many clones that Naruto split his powers with and it used pretty much all of it already.

Drakengard said:
He's definitely Kage level w/ Sage Mode. The real question would be how strong is he without all the power-ups?

Pa toad already stated Naruto learned allof SM jutsus to an extent (over 200 chapters ago,he could have mastered them), Naruto can Now fuse with Ma and Pa toad to have all the Sage chakra he wants, He can fight with his eyes close using his sensory ability (3rd Raikage)(no visual genjutsus will work), use the boiling oil jutsu (oil+fire+wind), turn others into a turn (hand signs), Has high endurance, agility, durability, increased jutsus.

Gitch said:
Ya but Naruto without 9 tails inside means less Chakra so thats also mean less Shadow Clones and that also mean slower learning curve.

No? He would still have his chakra that is a little more than doubled of Kakashi's plus fusing with Ma and Pa grants him all the Sage chakra he wants.

yuan of cruxis said:
No way!
IDC if he was wondering or not, base Naruto cant beat Kakashi at all

That's why Naruto beat him in the bell test? Before it started Naruto out manuvered Kakashi and could have stabbed him in the back of his head but he stopped. Base Naruto Taijutsu and speed are way faster now than before, he fought Pain in taijutsu after he went out of SM and when he saved Sakura no body sensed him and Kakashi praised his speed (somewhat). Naruto also has been using strategies more, his clone was the one who figured out the 3rd Raikage's weakness. He asked the right questions and pieced it together himself.

Crimson Trickster said:
Red: That is complete bullshit. You're basing that off nothing but your own assumptions, assumptions that aren't supported by neither evidence nor logic. Just no. Stop underrating Minato. The man was obviously one of the most skilled ninja around, there is no doubt in my mind he would've mastered Rasenshuriken in about the same amount of time as Naruto if he'd used a clone.

Underlined: Base Naruto has shadow clones, Rasengan and Rasenshuriken, so I would put him definitely on jonin level, but he doesn't have the speed, strength or skill to match up to the current Kage. You're not considered Kage level just by spamming the same three techniques over and over again. At best Base Naruto would be S-class, right below Kage level.

Hope this helps: Well first I would like to say that Minato learned how to make the rasengan by Seeing a tbb (most likely Bee's) and broke it down into steps to learn in order (spin,power, rotation). Now what Minato has done is copy a jutsu like the sharingan but he couldn't take time off to train like Naruto did when he was with Jiraiya. Minato has missions to go on, has his team to train, and was becoming the hokage around this time and the hokage can't just go off training (Minato said the next time they meet they would put the name of the kage's on the line). Next about S-class, it's only a rank given to dangerous criminals like Orochimaru and Akatsuki and they are all kage level so S-class ninjas could be kage level.

Gitch said:
And Naruto base wouldnt be able to use Rasenshiruken because it hurts him, he has to be in sage mode to throw it.

Wrong, you're thinking about the incomplete rasen shuriken that lasted for only a few second, Naruto used Sage mode to train and master the rasen shuriken. Naruto can still throw it in base but it takes alot of chakra and wouldn't be as strong as SM's.

Naruto9001 said:
Well my assumption is pretty accurate if it took him 3 years to make a regular rassengan even if it was by himself without a clone then there's no way he can make a rassenshuriken in even a year with a clone.

He could be on a kages level it took Oonokis best jinton tech to destroy Madara's forest but Naruto was able to destroy it with a tiny bit of kyubi's chakra probadly equal to his healthy base chakra.

You do know Minato created the Rasengan by seeing a tbb and broke it into steps one needs to master to create it. He was becoming the hokage around this time, had missions, had a wife, had a team to train (Kakashi, Rin, Obito) so wouldn't have the time to focus only on learning a new jutsus. Naruto trained for months in each step and then mastered it in a week, he had difficulties even tho he was told/showed what to do by Jiraiya. You have forgotten that Naruto took most of Kurama's chakra right? He used most of it in his training then split the power among 8-11 clones. Not to mention Kurama told Naruto he couldnt give alot of chakra from within the cage.

Naruto9001 said:
So he still had to do all thee stuff Minato had to do to make the rassengan Minato just had to do it on his own but naruto making it in 3 days even with a shadow clone is very impressive.

The Base Naruto Clone was also exhausted and injured if he was at full health he could have just went to KM and rassenshuriken and destroy the meteors Oonoki could only stop one. It was probadly a small amount my assuptions are pretty accurate dont ignore them just to be a hater.

Minato had to create the steps that makes the rasengan plus he was the best in the village so he's going to be busy plus want to spend his free time with his beloved wife. Oonoki is like 80 years old with back problems so stopping one is quiet a feet even tho he lighten it's weight.

Naruto9001 said:
How am i downplaying Minato's intelligence?

I know but Naruto can just spam Rassenshuriken and yes i did.

It was probadly a bit. How did i contradict myself? The nine tails has gigantic chakra millions of times more than a regular ninja it would only take a little bit of chakra for Naruto to get enough.

He is.

Sigh. Like I said before Naruto took a huge chunk of Kurama's chakra and used close to have training with Bee then made clones (splitting power) and then used Kurama's leftover chakra to go BM. He was given more power from the other Bijuus tho.

Draegod · May 6, 2012

Naruto9001 said:
1. It could have been because his a Uzumaki Uzumaki have much much much greater chakra than regular ninjas.

2. What did the kyubi do to get them past the next round?

3. I dont remember it ever being said that he needs kyubi chakra to do the summoning jutsu scans please?

4. You have a point.

5. Your right but he was fighting Garra on his own and with Gamabuta most of the fight.

6. What? Jiraya didn't do nothing.

7. That was all the way in part 1 so all those times you are talking about part 1 are irrelevant.

shippuden

1. That was a while ago.

2. It could have also been because of his Uzumaki chakra.

3. Wrong.

No his used his brain in many fights.

Chunin level is way too low.

1. No it was becuase of the kyubi, unless stated otherwise!