Naruto Criticism: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

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MAN OF SIN

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My thread got deleted for "advisement" So instead I will copy and paste my blog on here instead of posting links to it.

I've received a lot of positive feedback from my previous blog entry on Sakura compared to the first one. So I'll stick to critiquing rather than bashing the series, except when I touch on things that are extremely silly or flat out stupid.

Now on to the Ootsusuki Clan which are the second worst characters in the series. I consider them one entity who are all equally bad and do an equal amount of damage to the series. But they don't do the same kind of damage Sakura's character does. They aren't offensive or send a morally bad message like our terrible female lead, but they do damage the narrative and destroy other characters with their presence. Also invalidating several themes in part 1, along with introducing many plot holes and retcons.

I'll be talking about Hagoromo, Ashura/Indra, and Kaguya. Explaining how they ruined this story, have nonsensical backgrounds, and are badly written character. I'll be excluding Hamura because he is irrelevant.

Hagoromo Ootsusuki

First off, The Sage of Six Paths completely destroys the theme in Naruto about how the new generation always surpasses the previous ones. No one in the later generations could ever perform a planetary feat like Hagoromo, unless he gave them the seals which is superior to any other seals. He can summon the King of Hell, which superior to Reaper Death Seal. No one can summon the souls of the dead like him, that is superior to Edo Tensei. No one can heal people like him(Naruto's Jesus powers came from him), that is superior to all medical ninjutsu. He can awake the Rinne Sharingan and be able to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi, which is superior to all other genjutsu. He can do all of this without being the Juubi's Jinchuuriki and he said his mother was stronger than him. Kishi clearly didn't put much thought in creating this character.

The story of Hagoromo is also poorly thought out, a retcon(the One-tails & Nine-tails use to be demons instead of chakra constructs), and makes him look idiotic. I mean, why turn the chakra of the Ten Tails into giant monsters instead of destroying it to prevent its revival? He told the tailed beast that its revival would mean the end of the world...so why didn't he completely eliminate that possibility? According to Sasuke the tailed beast can be killed if you destroy ever last bit of their chakra. Naruto was worried about Sasuke using Amaterasu on Juubi before getting the tailed beast out, and Hagoromo didn't refute him when heard of his plan. So it must to be possible. I mean, what was the point in creating in creating the beast anyway?

But the Character Induced Stupidity doesn't end there! As Hagaromo doesn't even bother to tell Naruto and Sasuke how to dispell Infinite Tsukuyomi before sending them off to fight Madara. If Sasuke had not cut Madara in half they would never found out how to stop the genjutsu.

Another example of Hagoromo's poor decision making skill is giving power to Sasuke after telling him his nonsensical "Revolution". He doesn't even bother to point out the flaws in his plan, he just puts all his faith in Naruto to talk him out of it. He doesn't even tell Naruto about it. What if Sasuke had chosen to kill the Kages before attacking Naruto? Seriously...

Sages are suppose to be wise. But Hagoromo has made the stupidest decisions in the entire series...

Indra/Asura Ootsutsuki
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The image above basically explains why the Ootsusuki family existed in the first place. Its because Kishi failed to make Naruto and Sasuke look like brothers. So to compensate he made them spiritual brothers. Naruto and Sasuke are reincarnations of Asura and Indra, respectively. Two brothers in a petty feud started by Indra because he was butthurt that Hagoromo chosen his brother as a successor and not him.

But there are couple of problems with that development. According to Hagoromo Asura chose Naruto to reincarnate because his of personality, meaning he knew what kind of person he was going to be before he was even born. Okay, so remember what Neji said about destiny? That talent and your path is decided before your even born? Well it looks like Neji was right and that is the reason why died obviously.

This also just hurts the idea that hard work can beat natural talent any time. Because Naruto rises to a level of power due to being an incarnation of Asura and no one can achieve that level through hard work, at least not for more than a few minutes. The 8th Gate is the only thing that has been proven to allow an individual to reach that kind of power, but they'd literally need to sacrifice their life for a chance at victory. So in the grant scheme natural talent beats hard work.

Kaguya Ootsusuki/The Ten Tails

One of the biggest problems with Kaguya is that she is so repetitive to the story. As it is a part of a chain of manipulation. I don't really want to dwell on this too much. So I'll will let this image explain it.

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Kaguya's serves four purposes in the manga. Number one, tie up the loose end about the Hyuuga and Uchiha being related that was mentioned in Part 1. Number two, to be a cash grab for THE LAST as the movie focuses on the Ootsusuki clan. Number three, make the Uchiha Clan victims as there was a lot hate for them among the fandom. Number four, to destroy the moral ambiguity of Madara's end game among fans.



As you can see in the link above, readers were larger divided with the notion of Infinite Tsukuyomi. The entire population living in a perfect dream world with all their desires granted and having their bodies preserved for all of eternity(shown by that tree that kept Madara from dying of old age), literally living happily forever. Also solving problems like famine, pandemics that could wipe out humanity, pain, and further loss of loved ones. This was at worst a dark-grey area, even though it was lie. Which is ironic that Naruto uses that as a counter-argument, considering he wants to keep the truth about the Uchiha Massacre a secret to protect its reputation. But I digress and will get into Infinite Tsukuyomi's pros and cons in the next chapter about Obito.

Kishi knew Naruto's argument wouldn't have much of an impact on many readers. But instead of having Naruto face an actual moral conflict and ideological struggle, Kishi instead cops out by having Infinite Tsukuyomi actually turn people into White Zetsu over time to put Naruto completely in the right. Revealing that Zetsus were not artificial humans/clones created from Hashirama's DNA but victims of a previous Infinite Tsukuyomi event. But there is tons of evidence saying that this is a blatant retcon. Like the fact that all the Zetsus were males, Shizune explaining they had DNA identical to Hashirama, and a group of Zetsu referring to White Zetsu as their "original" when they are among themselves(only Sasuke was around and they planned on killing him). This seriously came out of nowhere and creates plot holes.

Kishi tries to make it look like he has been foreshadowing this twist for sometime by having people hang from the tree like the failed zetsu experiments shown in the Obito. However, that was just a retcon to make it look that way. As a flashback in chapter 671 shows the victims of the genjutsu were laying on the ground connected to the roots, rather than hanging from them. So this White Zetsu twist was really a last minute change. Nice try Kishi.

Now there is Black Zetsu being Kaguya's will instead of Madara's which is another obvious retcon. As we saw Madara create Black Zetsu on-panel with yin-yang release. There is nothing explaining this. This reveal just creates even more plot holes.

Kaguya's presence destroys Zetsu's character as they were a metaphor for Yin-Yang. Black Zetsu represented Yin, being made from Madara's essence. While White Zetsu was Yang, being made from Hashirama. However, they are both products of Kaguya now. This was disrespectful to the characters and their fans.

Kaguya's presence also ruins Madara's departure. He gets spat out like gum, says a few measly words, and dies. A character that has been hyped for years gets pathetic end. We didn't even get to see him use his full power after gaining it. Kishi totally made the hype of him gaining both his eyes pointless. He should have had Sakura just destroy his eye and have Madara cast the genjutsu with the tree instead. Again, disrespectful to a character and their fans.

Now on to Kaguya's personality which is very one dimensional, but that is consistent to what was said about the Ten-tails not having much emotions and its later said that she was heartless unlike the other enemies Naruto has faced. Now this isn't necessarily a bad thing as there have been famous antagonists with little personality, but they made up for it by being menacing like Jason Voorhees and Michael Myers. Kaguya starts out like this but Kishi destroys that having her get wet over the Sexy Jutsu along with Sakura in battle...
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Kishi doesn't even try to make up for all of this with a good fight between gods. Its mostly just hide and seek between Kaguya and Naruto. Plus, there are massive plot holes that put the fight in Team 7's favor such as Kakashi and Obito moving through heavy gravity. Sakura having enough chakra to travel through dimensions that eat away Kaguya's planet's worth of chakra, when she couldn't replenish Shikamaru's chakra. Another example is Kaguya being established to absorb chakra attack, yet she tries to avoid a regular chidori by Sasuke wasting chakra in the process and doesn't absorb Kakashi's attack. Even Naruto uses large chakra attacks against her in chapter 688 even though he wouldn't in chapter 684 because she'll absorb it. Its like Kishi forgot about her abilities.

This ridiculous level of plot armor is presence in Kaguya's defeat. First there is that asspull Kakashi power-up. Then Kaguya gets fooled by a transformation jutsu with her Byakugan activated. Which makes no sense since she has shown to be able to tell Naruto and Sasuke's chakra's apart in chapter 679. She doesn't even use her chakra claws to punch Naruto and Sasuke away which she had done three times before. Or use her hair to restrain them which she had done twice. Then there is the BS Sakura punch which should have been useless against Kaguya given previous durability feats, immunity to ninjutsu, and should have seen her coming(the Byuakugan blind-spot is VERY tiny). Basically, Team 7 didn't defeat Kaguya because of teamwork but with tons of Character and Plot Induced Stupidity.

Hell, even the Sun and Moon seals that defeated her are unbelievablely huge plot holes. As chapter 690 shows a flashback where Kaguya's sons used the Chibaku Tensei seal against her in their battle,,. Okay, so when did Hagoromo get the chance to become the Ten-tails' Jinchuuriki if that happened? Kurama said that Hagoromo had the Gedo Mazo inside him, but even the databook supports this plot hole:

"Ever since "humans" were given form, they have fought each other and walked in a world of war. The earth was stained with blood, and as if it were absorbing that blood for nourishment, the Shinju took root in the earth. Eventually the Shinju beared a single fruit, and a certain clan came from another world seeking that fruit: the Ootsutsuki clan. Kaguya, leader of the Ootsutsuki, ate the fruit and became the progenitor of all chakra, and with her absolute power brought peace to the world in an instant.

After ending the turbulent era, she became known as the Rabbit Goddess and received the blessing of the people, giving birth to twins. But after that, Kaguya would occasionally use harsh means to rule the people as a dictator. The Byakugan, Sharingan, and Infinite Tsukuyomi - the people feared and respected the jutsu Kaguya wielded. Eventually, the "Rabbit Goddess" became known as a demon instead. And then, Kaguya became ruled by her desire to make all chakra her own.

To make all chakra one - Kaguya's desire eventually turned on Hagoromo and Hamura, her own twin sons with whom she had split her chakra. Kaguya formed a plan, and in order to take in all chakra, fused with the Shinju and battled against her twin sons.

The twins, assuming that the Juubi was a transformed Shinju attacking them in order to reclaim the chakra that was taken from it, faced off against it. And after a fierce battle, the activated Rikudou Chibaku Tensei. They turned it into the moon and sealed it away.

Caption next to Hamura on the last page: The Gedou Mazou, the remaining shell of the Juubi, was sealed in the moon. Hamura took command of the clan to watch over the Mazou."

So Kaguya like the rest of her family made the story a mess. But the biggest damage this family did was retconning chakra. Instead of being energy made from spirit and physical energy to the energy of a tree, which humans originally didn't have. So they didn't have spirit or physical energy until Hagoromo gave it to them? Whatever...

See you sometime next week with my take on Obito Uchiha!
 
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Shanks

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

Manga is over just leave it already . It's Kishi's Story end of the day .

i am glad it has ended with Naruto vs Sasuke we all wanted for Years .
 

NukaCola

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

I will copy paste my comment as well:

*Uchiha
 

Shruikan

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

I will copy paste my comment as well:

*Uchiha

Haters gonna hate

Lord Sasuke solos all and without him this manga would have been even more shit
 

MAN OF SIN

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

Manga is over just leave it already . It's Kishi's Story end of the day .

i am glad it has ended with Naruto vs Sasuke we all wanted for Years .

Did you just say that that movie critics shouldn't write reviews after watching a movie?

Seriously that's what that logic is saying.
 

Jiraiyathesannin

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

This is bull. Chapter 2 of naruto dealt with him becoming a genin. Garbage thread
 

MAN OF SIN

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

This is bull. Chapter 2 of naruto dealt with him becoming a genin. Garbage thread

What the hell does that have to do with what I said?
 

AnonymousShinobi

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

Typical you see something you don't like then assume everyone agrees then post a thread with no credibility.
Smh

What the .... are you talking about? Is it wrong for him to criticize the manga?
 

MAN OF SIN

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

Haters gonna hate

Lord Sasuke solos all and without him this manga would have been even more shit

Without him there would be no Naruto fainting over him.
 

Slifer

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

You are right in every point. Only blind kishi supporters badmouth you.

They are kishi fanboys who always support him.

But every reader has the right to write critics, without getting flamed! It's his and mine opionion, too.


One thing I dont understand is the secret of hashiramas wood relase. This is a plot hole. He can use it without SAGE mode. And his DNA is the same like IT victims.

so WHAT the **** is Hashirama senju ??
 

Conspirator.

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

Awesome analysis IMO.
 

Gerkak

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

nice thread
 

1Told

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

about Neji well i guess you are ok but still, Kishi could have managed the paradox he created without thinking about it imo (i can in my head, i'm gonna send him the missing explanations and tricks to avoid the fandom rage lol) but like many things in the manga, you need more pages to justify peculiar choices and actions...cutting corners do not work well with a medium centered on images not text...

the transmigration was not a bad idea, it was just revealed way too late in the manga so even if it was an old info he planned, the way Kishi gave this freaking important card to us was beyond bad.

Kaguya was a mistake imo, he should have shown her before just like the transmigration back story, the fight was ridiculous, unnecessary and way too long!!!

and about the chakra...big mess, he lost it all there.

this simply prove that Kishi is not a bad writer BUT clearly he's not organized, he lacks a lot of ingenuity and confidence and imo he was a lazy ass and he was bored in the last years.
i can understand why, 15 years is way too long for a manga especially when you are supposed to give 1 chapter/week, people whom wrote freaking stuff take their time and are never under pressure like this.

manga is a medium based on visual understanding, imo Kishi did well in this domain but he should have work a lot more with someone specialized on script/text etc
 

MAN OF SIN

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

Kaguya was a mistake imo, he should have shown her before just like the transmigration back story, the fight was ridiculous, unnecessary and way too long!!!

Kaguya was obviously a recent addition to the story. I strongly believe she appeared in the manga because he couldn't came up with a counter argument for Infinite Tsukuyomi beyond it being a lie.

That was the biggest cop-out I have ever seen. Leaving a mess of plot holes. One of the worst aspects of the series.
 
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Lariatoo

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

With all honestly, Naruto was close to flawless until the end of the Pain Invasion Arc. It completely paid of with the themes of friendship, fighting against the Curse of hatred and prevail against all odds...
Im not one those people that said that the entirety of the War arc sucked, but after Óbito was revealed everything became to much of a clusterf*ck...
Culminating in that abomination of Kaguya...
Still my favorite manga tho. Not gonna let a letdown final years to spoil so much gold...
 

1Told

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

Kaguya was obviously a recent addition to the story. I strongly believe she appeared in the manga because he could came up with a counter argument for Infinite Tsukuyomi beyond it being a lie.

That was the biggest cop-out I have ever seen. Leaving a mess of plot holes. One of the worst aspects of the series.

maybe but you know sometimes i really think he simply forgot the main existence of some characters, previous old stuff he did, hidden details, parallel storyline etc

he forgot about Sakura, Kishi's memory is full of holes same goes for his work :rolleyes:
 

Honord Sage

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

Kishi created the story not you. And do have the inside track on their creation and purpose,so stop being an elites snob thinking you know better than Kishi the creator.
 

MAN OF SIN

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Re: Naruto Criticism Chapter 2: The Ootsusuki Clan Ruined This Story

With all honestly, Naruto was close to flawless until the end of the Pain Invasion Arc. It completely paid of with the themes of friendship, fighting against the Curse of hatred and prevail against all odds...
Im not one those people that said that the entirety of the War arc sucked, but after Óbito was revealed everything became to much of a clusterf*ck...
Culminating in that abomination of Kaguya...
Still my favorite manga tho. Not gonna let a letdown final years to spoil so much gold...

Naruto started to gain some notable flaws after the Gaara rescue arc if you ask me.

Kishi created the story not you. And do have the inside track on their creation and purpose,so stop being an elites snob thinking you know better than Kishi the creator.

Can't handle some crictism? And yeah, I can write better than Kishi as you'll see in the next chapter.
 
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