[VS] Nagato vs Kakashi and edo Itachi

[Zexion~]

Sensing build-up doesn't allow him to counter it every-time, he's going to be hit eventually.

 

[Jugram Haschwalth]

Shinra Tensei can be omnidirectional. If Kakashi is getting repelled, so is Itachi.

He has the time before it's used where Kakashi builds up chakra. He has the time before Kamui completes. If Gaara's sand wall can form in that time, then Nagato can use Shinra Tensei.

This is dependent on Kakashi being extremely close to Nagato when he doesn't. If Kakashi goes for the snipe at this[

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] What will Nagato do then? He can't use Shinra tensei it won't cover that much distance in time. The strategy only works if Kakashi is close to Nagato. Even if Itachi Susano is pushed back Totsuka has shown the ability to stretch.

 

[TRE MERCER]

So what? It's speed is the same in all instances it was used. The only reason for any difference in warp time is due to the size of the target.

Obviously it take time to warp bigger objects but if he simply goes to warp Nagato's head it's a small object therefor the warping process happens much faster.

Yes, there is buildup. Every single eye technique that is released through the eye itself requires buildup. Kamui isn't excluded. This buildup will increase or decrease depending on the size of the Kamui that Kakashi uses.

Spoiler

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Kakashi only had to build up chakra because he was warping something the size a the Gedo Mazo's head which is huge if he goes to warp Nagato's head it will happen nearly instant.

This doesn't prove anything about Kamui not being perceivable to Nagato.
Nagato not being able to physically dodge something that Kamui intercepted isn't evidence for Nagato not mentally reacting to Kamui. It just means that he can't dodge it.

Your right he can't dodge it but how is ST going to help when it can't stop his head from being warped. Kakashi gets pushed back and Nagato loses his head fair trade.

That wasn't the instance I was referring to.

Spoiler

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[/QUOTE]
Obito still didn't know Naruto got warp hence the surprise look to see the clone if the kamui dimension[

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]

 

[EZQ]

-Kakashi activates Kamui when Gaara puts his hand on the ground.
-The sand wall comes up before Kakashi's Kamui can complete. The sand wall doesn't come up until the middle panel, which is after Kakashi activates Kamui. This isn't hard to understand.

So he sensed the buildup. Blood is a sign of Amaterasu's chakra buildup generally, so I'm not seeing the problem. Saying that Nagato didn't sense it until Itachi's eye started bleeding makes no sense.

Not sure how Kakashi warping Sasuke's arrows makes it too fast for Nagato. Sasuke's arrows aren't even close to being fast enough to where Nagato wouldn't perceive them.

Lol at you using Kakashi's worst feat with Kamui in the war arc, after he was stated to be already going blind.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Lol at you using Kakashi's worst feat with Kamui in the war arc, after he was stated to be already going blind.

Thank you this guy is tripping if he thinks ST is going to outspeed Kamui like i said worst case is that they trade attacks. Which means Kakashi gets a few broken bones while Nagato gets his head took off.

 

[EZQ]

Thank you this guy is tripping if he thinks ST is going to outspeed Kamui like i said worst case is that they trade attacks. Which means Kakashi gets a few broken bones while Nagato gets his head took off.

Lol.

Kakashi obviously took a lot more time there because he was going blind and couldn't aim well, the same happened in his first usage against deidara because guess what? he couldn't aim well because lack of practice.

Really, after feats like Kakashi warping BM Naruto's clones, moving kunais, the gedo mazo's arm before is summoned... and thi guy uses Kakashi's blind warping as proof..

Keep it up tho. Tbg i guesss this guy won't concedeto you. I'm leaving the thread lol

 

[EZQ]

And again.. he uses Kakashi's feat trying to warp the gedo mazo's head the first time where he uses build up, but later we see Kakashi warping Gedo Mazo's arm which is a lot bigger, with almost no build up.

Not to mention i already took a shit on Nagato sensing the build up argument showing how slow Nagato's sensing is compared to kamui, and then he has to actually counter in time..

 

[Zexion~]

And again.. he uses Kakashi's feat trying to warp the gedo mazo's head the first time where he uses build up, but later we see Kakashi warping Gedo Mazo's arm which is a lot bigger, with almost no build up.

Not to mention i already took a shit on Nagato sensing the build up argument showing how slow Nagato's sensing is compared to kamui, and then he has to actually counter in time..

Nagato's sensing is fine, the only thing that was slow was him communicating it to Naruto.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Nagato's sensing is fine, the only thing that was slow was him communicating it to Naruto.

Nagato didn't sense it until Blood was already down his face though.

 

[TheSages456]

This is dependent on Kakashi being extremely close to Nagato when he doesn't. If Kakashi goes for the snipe at this[

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] What will Nagato do then? He can't use Shinra tensei it won't cover that much distance in time. The strategy only works if Kakashi is close to Nagato. Even if Itachi Susano is pushed back Totsuka has shown the ability to stretch.

I'm not seeing why Shinra Tensei wouldn't cover that distance in time. Totsuka has not shown the ability to stretch.

Obviously it take time to warp bigger objects but if he simply goes to warp Nagato's head it's a small object therefor the warping process happens much faster.

Kakashi only had to build up chakra because he was warping something the size a the Gedo Mazo's head which is huge if he goes to warp Nagato's head it will happen nearly instant.

Your right he can't dodge it but how is ST going to help when it can't stop his head from being warped. Kakashi gets pushed back and Nagato loses his head fair trade.

There isn't anything implying that it would be fast enough to kill Nagato since I will reiterate, Gaara's sand wall can form before Kakashi's Kamui can complete.
He wouldn't have died against Pain if Kamui was as useful as your trying to say.

Obito still didn't know Naruto got warp hence the surprise look to see the clone if the kamui dimension[

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]

He knew that Kakashi was using Kamui. He didn't know that the entire clone was the target instead of just the Rasengan.

Lol at you using Kakashi's worst feat with Kamui in the war arc, after he was stated to be already going blind.

There is no "worst feat". The jutsu is the same speed in all instances. Him being near blind doesn't change it's speed either, just like being near blind doesn't affect Amaterasu's speed.

 

[Zexion~]

Nagato didn't sense it until Blood was already down his face though.

Thats simply when he said something, I don't understand how someone sensing chakra could be slowed either you sense it or you don't.

 

[Eng nawashi]

And again.. he uses Kakashi's feat trying to warp the gedo mazo's head the first time where he uses build up, but later we see Kakashi warping Gedo Mazo's arm which is a lot bigger, with almost no build up.
..

The warping process was also much faster with gedu's arm than it was with gedu's neck since the later was slower than Naruto attacking obito with chakra arm while the former was clearly much faster than that .it is really surprising that some people think kamui warping speed is fixed and cant be controlled by the user .

 

[Eng nawashi]

There is no "worst feat". The jutsu is the same speed in all instances. Him being near blind doesn't change it's speed either, just like being near blind doesn't affect Amaterasu's speed.

If by saying "the jutsu is the same speed in all instances " you mean the speed of kamui warping process is fixed ,then you are wrong here .

 

[EZQ]

There is no "worst feat". The jutsu is the same speed in all instances. Him being near blind doesn't change it's speed either, just like being near blind doesn't affect Amaterasu's speed.

Clearly pulling this out of your ass when there have been a lot of differences speed in it's usage. Kakashi being blind equals having trouble to aim, just what happened against Deidara, that made his kamui slower.

Lmao, read the manga again

 

[EZQ]

Nagato's sensing is fine, the only thing that was slow was him communicating it to Naruto.

Nope. The blood comes down, and then Nagato realizes, clearly (!) he only realized it by that time.

 

[Zexion~]

Nope. The blood comes down, and then Nagato realizes, clearly (!) he only realized it by that time.

:lol that would make absolutely zero sense as sensing chakra is simply that, he wasn't actually trying to look for anything here if he makes it a point to sense chakra build-up from the start he realizes it right away.

 

[EZQ]

:lol that would make absolutely zero sense as sensing chakra is simply that, he wasn't actually trying to look for anything here if he makes it a point to sense chakra build-up from the start he realizes it right away.

What you said makes zero sense. Nagato in an actual fight has that speed to sense/realize he's sensing chakra. That's the speed of his reaction, period.

Why would he specifically be waiting to sense a build up? He needed the time of the blood dropping to actually catch a build up.

 

[Zexion~]

What you said makes zero sense. Nagato in an actual fight has that speed to sense/realize he's sensing chakra. That's the speed of his reaction, period.

Why would he specifically be waiting to sense a build up? He needed the time of the blood dropping to actually catch a build up.

Fam, you still have to actively try to sense things it could easily have been the blood that alerted Nagato to try and sense the build-up (cerberus had sight of Itachi)

You also switched your argument here, if you're trying to argue that Nagato can sense the build-up himself but simply not react mentally for that long you're insane, either way even with that time given is perfectly enough time to react with ST

 

[KidGamer65]

Clearly pulling this out of your ass when there have been a lot of differences speed in it's usage. Kakashi being blind equals having trouble to aim, just what happened against Deidara, that made his kamui slower.

Lmao, read the manga again

Wrong. Kakashi said if he gets close it's fine. He was close, so it was fine. Not to mention aim is irrelevant because Obito wasn't moving. Deidara was moving and Kakashi had to move his focal point in unison to try and catch him. Obito was still and Kakashi isn't blind, so he can see Obito. Unless Kakashi was blind and couldn't see Obito's form at all you don't have a point with this argument.

-Kakashi and Gaara use Kamui and slap the ground for Sand Wall at the same exact time.
-The Sand wall comes up before the warp even starts. So how is Kakashi being blind an excuse here? :lol