[Discussion] My straw hat power scale with logic

[Bogard]

There is no clear gap between Zoro is barley stronger. but I'll admit he is stronger.

1- Him being confused for a captain doesn't really indicate strength as much, but he is seen as more level headed than Luffy aswell, which is a good trait in a captain it doesn't really indicate that Zoro is seen as strong as Luffy so he should be captain.

- Yes it does. It's after observing his strength that they usually think he should be the captain. At whiskey peak for example, it's only after Zoro decimated a great part of their group, that the bounty hunters started to think he was the real captain with a bounty of 30 millions over his head, directly saying that him just like Luffy should have deserved such a bounty at the time, the small fight occuring between both later made as a confirmation of the fact

2- The opponents Zoro beat are only a bit stronger than Sanji's yet he struggles alot more (the expection for this rule would be Mr 1. and Mr.2 and Sanji's Thriller Bark opponent and Ryumma)

- That already makes a lot of exceptions, don't you think? Not to mention he also defeated the strongest priest by far in skipiea, an island where Wiper, Zoro and Luffy were showed to operate on a similar level by the way. The portrayal is clear

3- Bounty isn't a clear indication of strength and the only reason Zoro's bounty is higher than Sanji's is because he was a bounty hunter before joining Luffy while Sanji was a chef. Zoro's bounty shouldn't be a reason to say he's strong seeing as Sanji is stronger than many of the worst gen aswell.

- No one talked about bounty here, but supernova(worst generation). It was a last minute thing according to Oda and after the water 7 arc, there have been more than 2 arcs before they reached Sabondy fighting even another Shichibukai's crew, yet he never opted in increasing Sanji's bounty in order to make him a supernova, simply because it wasn't part of his character development in future arcs. Supernovas are more and more taking a great place in this manga, occuring in the greatest events in the new world, according to Brownbeard and are seen as problem children. In terms of portrayal, the fact Oda decided to make Zoro part of this generation leaving out Sanji is simply because he is destinated to have a greater future than Sanji, obtaining greater strength to accomplish a greater dream

4-Look at my post, Sanji is as strong and has as much potential as many of the worst gen.

- Nope, the Supernovas were a last second thing made by Oda to create rivals to Luffy. Rivals to Luffy can't be that far below him at this stage. Maybe later, but not now. Pre-skip Urouge was capable to go toe-to-toe with Pacifistas by himself and he is considered by some to be one of the weakest. Drake made one bleed by himself. Kidd and Law are viewed to be Luffy's ultimate rivals and so on. According to Brownbeard, everyone of them created chaos in the new world. They clearly have a greater future potential and threat than Luffy. Some of them like Apoo are judged to be strong enough to ally with Kidd in a fight against a Yonkou. Sanji doesn't have as much potential as Luffy's rivals

5-True

- Well if you agree with this, do you agree at least with the fact that Zoro will create(if he didn't already in your mind) a gap with Sanji sooner or later?

6- Yeah he view as the VC but that doesn't really say he's stronger than the others. And as we have seen Zoro takes the stand more than Sanji.

- Oda is the one puting it in our face to show us that he indeed is the strongest in the crew after Luffy

7- Don't see how that's valid, Oda pretty much showed us that Sanji could have one shotted his foe.

- It's portrayal-wise. Even with Jinbe as a possible new-comer, he took the back-seat in the role of fighting the second strongest(that Zoro usually fight and did fight) by sharing with Sanji the role to defeat the third strongest. Clearly Oda is trying to show that even if Jinbe entered the crew, Zoro's position is clear when Sanji's position is undecided

8- He hasn't be paralleled with Luffy that much, the only thing I could think of is that they both apart of the worst gen That's it.

9- Lol Sanji always is hurt and injured before skirmishing with tough foes. While Zoro skirmished with Fuji and got beat easily, that isn't more impressive especially when you look at Fuji's intent. Fuji just wanted Zoro to back off and he could put down a hole by a causal attack, while a DD with the intent to kill constantly praised a already hurt Sanji. Sanji overall has performed better against the big dog under his circumstances.

10- Sanji's limits haven't been shown, because he is always hurt before hand or he is put against someone out of his league (DD). So neither of them have been able to go all out yet, while I'll admit we've seen more of Sanji thought,​

1- Yes it does. It's after observing his strength that they usually think he should be the captain. At whiskey peak for example, it's only after Zoro decimated a great part of their group, that the bounty hunters started to think he was the real captain with a bounty of 30 millions over his head, directly saying that him just like Luffy should have deserved such a bounty at the time, the small fight occuring between both later made as a confirmation of the fact

2- That already makes a lot of exceptions, don't you think? Not to mention he also defeated the strongest priest by far in skipiea, an island where Wiper, Zoro and Luffy were showed to operate on a similar level by the way. The portrayal is clear

3- No one talked about bounty here, but supernova(worst generation). It was a last minute thing according to Oda and after the water 7 arc, there have been more than 2 arcs before they reached Sabondy fighting even another Shichibukai's crew, yet he never opted in increasing Sanji's bounty in order to make him a supernova, simply because it wasn't part of his character development in future arcs.

Supernovas are more and more taking a great place in this manga, occuring in the greatest events in the new world, according to Brownbeard and are seen as problem children. In terms of portrayal, the fact Oda decided to make Zoro part of this generation leaving out Sanji is simply because he is destinated to have a greater future than Sanji, obtaining greater strength to accomplish a greater dream

4- Nope, the Supernovas were a last second thing made by Oda to create rivals to Luffy. Rivals to Luffy can't be that far below him at this stage. Maybe later, but not now. Pre-skip Urouge was capable to go toe-to-toe with Pacifistas by himself and he is considered by some to be one of the weakest. Drake made one bleed by himself.

Kidd and Law are viewed to be Luffy's ultimate rivals and so on. According to Brownbeard, everyone of them created chaos in the new world. They clearly have a greater future potential and threat than Luffy. Some of them like Apoo are judged to be strong enough to ally with Kidd in a fight against a Yonkou. Sanji doesn't have as much potential as Luffy's rivals

5- Well if you agree with this, do you agree at least with the fact that Zoro will create(if he didn't already in your mind) a gap with Sanji sooner or later?

6- It's Oda the one puting it in our face to show us that he indeed is the strongest in the crew after Luffy by calling him the vice-captain through one of his creations who is even a Strawhat fanboy, so know and fanboy them more than anyone

7- It's portrayal-wise. Even with Jinbe as a possible new-comer, he took the back-seat in the role of fighting the second strongest(that Zoro usually fight and did fight) by sharing with Sanji the role to defeat the third strongest. Clearly Oda is trying to show that even if Jinbe entered the crew, Zoro's position is clear when Sanji's position is undecided

8- Yes they have

a- They defeated the same arc villain under different conditions(a one-shot from Zoro underwater with incapacity to move and breath normally, versus a prolonged fight against transformed Hodi in Luffy's case)

b- They both encoutered Hyouzou, one in a skirmich when the other in a battle. Hyouzou counters and inflect poison on Gear second Luffy and Luffy hypes him to be strong, yet he was boring to Zoro(despite being in a stronger transformed form)

c- Both their arc-opponents received the same power-ups

d- Luffy and Zoro are paired to fight a dragon finally one-shoted by Zoro

e- Luffy fights Monet and almost lose while Monet admits she never thought she could have been able to beat him. When she meets Zoro, she repeats the same sentence(and thus puting them in parallel) and we discover later that Zoro was only playing with her one-shoting a logia without using haki

f- Luffy KO's an underwater fish with jet pistol when Zoro KO's a bigger fish with 360 pound cannon

And so on

9- All i see here is you trying to downplay Zoro while making Sanji look better than he actually was. First of, the "injuries" you mention concerning Sanji were only superficial. No way in hell were they affecting his fighting style compared to what he normally can.

Secondly, Zoro's opponent(Fujitora) was stronger than Sanji's(Doflamingo)

Thirdly, Zoro never got beat. I don't know where you pulled off that nonsense. After their small clash, i saw a Fujitora post-poning their battle while following Doflamingo with a Zoro wondering why they are going, and later on running around like nothing happened. He came out of the whole on his own, sending a "brutal" flying slash that made even marines around Fujitora worrying about him.

Yes Sanji got praise by Doflamingo(2 times) concerning his strength, but at the same time, he was seen taking him on while laughing. He even proposed him a bet to see if he actually can protect his crew while leaving him bleeding behind him, turning his back. So it looks to me he never even took him seriously, and on the contrary of Zoro who managed to defend himself on his own, Sanji had to be saved by Law

Not to mention he skirmiched with Fujitora a second time and came out unscathed

10- Yes it was. The injuries you mention didn't affect him one bit considering they were only superficial. You're overrestimating their relevancy in battle. Sanji himself admitted to himself that if he continued to fight Vergo, he would have lose. And may i mention the fact we're talking about a Haki and bamboo-less Vergo here? They were fighting legs-to-legs(so Sanji's primarily fighting-style), yet he is the one who was already in difficulties