My controversial opinion of six paths sage mode and Sasuke's rinnegan.

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With the loss of Kurama in the most recent chapter, and the loss of Sasuke's rinnegan in chapters prior, people have been speculating about how powerful Naruto and Sasuke are now. This has been more prominent when it comes to Naruto. People have been debating about whether or not Naruto still has the chakaras of the 8 other bijuus, as well as the ability to use six paths sage mode (without the chakara cloak).

The following image depicts the six paths sage mode that people are debating about:

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(Notice that it is the one without the chakara cloak and the truth seeking balls)


Now, the reason why some people still believe that Naruto will retain access to the above form is because the 4th databook describes six paths sage mode as being a gift from Hagoromo. The databook makes it sound like six paths sage mode is not a form that you can obtain on your own no matter how much you train and no matter what kind of DNA or chakaras you gather inside of you. It makes it sound like this state solely comes as a gift from Hagoromo and Hagoromo alone.

Therefore, so long as Naruto still has the chakara given to him by Hagoromo, he should still possess the above form of six paths sage mode even if he no longer possesses the chakara of all 9 bijuus.

That is the logic as to why some people believe that the current Naruto may still possess six paths sage mode.

Now, here is where my opinion is a bit controversial:

I disagree with the data book! There is no way that six paths sage mode is purely a gift from Hagoromo! I assert to you today that there is a formula for awakening six paths sage mode. The components that you need to obtain six paths sage mode are:

1. six paths chakara
2. the chakara of all 9 bijuus
3. senjutsu

Now, I know that some of you author worshippers out there are ready to attack me now, but here me out.

To begin with, you should notice that while in six paths sage mode, Naruto has the "plus sign (+)" in his eyes. Now, we all know that whenever Naruto has the plus sign in his eyes, he is simultaneously using both Kurama's chakara and senjutsu. Naruto's brand of senjutsu is toad senjutsu, and the horizontal part of the plus sign is the indicator of the presence of toad based senjutsu. The vertical part of the plus sign indicates the usage of Kurama's chakara.

Now please tell me this:

If six paths sage mode did not require the bijuu chakaras, then why would evidence of the use of Kurama's chakara be present even in the non-cloaked version of six paths sage mode? Furthermore, how exactly would Hagoromo give Naruto some toad senjutsu? Even if he gave Naruto some senjutsu chakara, why would it be specifically toad senjutsu? I mean, Hagoromo could have in theory given Hashirama a power up if he wanted to, but Hashirama's senjutsu wasn't toad senjutsu. If Hashirama had met Hagoromo and obtained the same power up, would Hashirama's eyes reflect toad senjutsu all of a sudden? I doubt it.

Considering that to begin with, senjutsu is the phenomenon that happens when a shinobi balances natural energy with their own chakara, it is much more likely that Naruto's eyes in RSM reflected toad senjutsu because he used his own toad based method to balance natural energy with the six paths chakara and the bijuu chakara that he had received.

What's more, if six paths sage mode is simply a chakara gift from Hagoromo, then why did Sasuke not gain six paths sage mode? Sasuke received the same chakara as Naruto, did he not? Even if you say that Naruto got the yang chakara and that Sasuke got the yin chakara, it would make no sense for just the yang chakara to contain natural energy.

Nature energy is neither yin nor yang. As stated before, senjutsu is the balance of nature energy with your own chakara, and one's own chakara is composed of both yin and yang. In other words, to use any type of senjutsu, you have to balance natural energy with both your yin and yang chakara. Therefore, it makes no sense for only Hagoromo's yang chakara to contain natural energy in it and not his yin chakara.

Finally, I will tell you specifically why I believe that the formula for six paths sage mode is:

1. six paths chakara
2. the chakara of all 9 bijuus
3. senjutsu

For this, it would be better to look at the chakara cloak version of six paths sage mode:

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Now, what are some key features of this mode? Answer: Naruto has truth seeking balls and his back has the symbol of the rinnegan with 3 rows of 3 tomoe per row underneath the rinnegan. It is just like with a juubi jinchuuriki. Naruto is basically a pseudo juubi jinchuuriki in this mode.

Now, what chakaras does a juubi jinchuuriki possess? In fact, what is the composition of the juubi itself?

Answer: The juubi's chakara is composed of the chakara of all 9 bijuus, six paths chakara, and senjutsu!

How do I know that the juubi possesses the chakara of all 9 bijuus? Well... do I even have to answer that? The juubi is literally the amalgamation of all bijuus.

How do I know that the juubi contains senjutsu? Well, Kurama stated it and during the fight with juubi jinchuuriki Obito, it was established that senjutsu was his weakness since the juubi is comprised of natural energy.

Finally, how do we know that the juubi possesses six paths chakara. Well, juubi jinchuurikis automatically gain access to six paths chakara.

It would make perfect sense for a power that resembles that of the juubi jinchuuriki to require the components that compose the juubi's chakara.

By the way, a lot of people believe that the cloaked RSM mode is KCM stacked on top of the non-cloaked RSM. However, I believe that it is not just KCM, but rather it is the chakara of all 9 bijuus stacked on top of the non-cloaked RSM. The reason why Kurama's eyes still show in Naruto's eyes is because Kurama was the bijuu that was most prevalent in Naruto.

To sum up what I have been insinuating...

Naruto's six paths sage mode was not just a gift from Hagoromo. All Hagoromo gave Naruto was the six paths chakara and the yang seal. The six paths chakara that Naruto received was simply used in conjunction with the 9 bijuus' chakaras that Naruto had and Naruto's own senjutsu to create six paths sage mode.

It is the same with Sasuke's rinnegan. Some people believe that Hagoromo gave Sasuke the rinnegan.

No! That is false!

Hagoromo did not give Sasuke the rinnegan. Hagoromo gave Sasuke six paths chakara and the yin seal. That's all. Sasuke simply awakened the rinnegan because of that six paths chakara. The reason why Sasuke awakened a tomoe rinnegan instead of a standard dual rinnegan is because the yin seal gave Sasuke an imbalance of yin and yang. Sasuke's yin was greater than his yang, so that resulted in a tomoe rinnegan.

I don't care how strong Hagoromo is. He can't give Naruto and Sasuke something that he doesn't have.

That said, Hagoromo did possess both six paths senjutsu and the rinnegan. However, Hagoromo did not possess these things in the same form that Naruto/Sasuke awakened those powers.

Hagoromo did not possess a tomoe rinnegan. Hagoromo did not possess six paths sage mode in the same form that Naruto possessed it.

Conclusion: Hagoromo did not give Naruto and Sasuke RSM and rinnegan. He gave them six paths chakara and seals. Naruto and Sasuke simply awakened RSM and rinnegan after receiving six paths chakara and mixing it with things that they already had (the chakara of all 9 bijuus in Naruto's case, and the sharingan in Sasuke's case).

I believe that the databook's statement about RSM being a gift from Hagoromo just references the fact that Naruto gained this mode after receiving chakara from Hagoromo. The thought that Hagoromo gave Naruto the mode itself just makes no sense and it wanks Hagoromo too much.

Of course, when it comes to Naruto's current power after losing Kurama, this does unfortunately mean that he most likely does not have six paths sage mode any more. However, he may still have six paths chakara and chakara of the other 8 bijuus.

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed this read and can understand where I am coming from.
 
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Urda

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How do you disagree with the databook? The databook is fact unless stated otherwise in the Manga.



Finally, I will tell you specifically why I believe that the formula for six paths sage mode is:

1. six paths chakara
2. the chakara of all 9 bijuus
3. senjutsu

I seen this before. Why are people stating it like it is fact? Where is yall finding that?


From my understanding, the Sage gifted Naruto his Six Path Senjutsu. I checked other sources and it doesn't say that it required the other things mention above to awaken (Besides Senjutsu).
 
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How do you disagree with the databook? The databook is fact unless stated otherwise in the Manga.






I seen this before. Why are people stating it like it is fact? Where is yall finding that?


From my understanding, the Sage gifted Naruto his Six Path Senjutsu. I checked other sources and it doesn't say that it required the other things mention above to awaken (Besides Senjutsu).
I can respect your faithfulness to the data book's words, and I know that it is generally wrong to outright deny the words of the author.

However, the mode being purely a gift from Hagoromo makes no sense. Take a look at the following reasons:

1. How can Hagoromo give something he doesn't have? Yes, he has six paths senjutsu, but he does not have it in the same six paths sage mode form that Naruto displayed. The same goes with Sasuke's rinnegan. Yes, Hagoromo has the rinnegan, but he does not have a tomoe rinnegan like Sasuke.

2. Why would six paths sage mode be toad based if it comes purely from Hagoromo? You can see in Naruto's eyes evidence of toad senjutsu. Now, we know that Hagoromo did know Gamamaru, but we have never seen Hagoromo display any actual toad senjutsu traits.

3. If six paths sage mode does not require the bijuus then why are Kurama's eyes present even in the non-cloaked form of RSM?

4. Didn't Sasuke get the same chakara as Naruto? Well then, why didn't Sasuke get six paths sage mode. We already know why Naruto didn't get the rinnegan (you need the sharingan for that, or at least the ability to awaken sharingan).

5. Can you deny that Naruto's cloaked RSM is very much like a juubi jinchuuriki? Can you deny that the chakaras of all 9 bijuus, senjutsu, and six paths chakara are the components that make up the juubi's chakara?
 

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You are looking at things from the perspective of "Modes." You are not distinguishing the difference in attributes like Toad Sage Mode and Dragon Sage Mode. What Hagoromo did was give them his chakra. They "awaken" those abilities.

As far as Naruto (since your basing your entire theory around his Sage Mode), you have to remember that Naruto holds the Nine-Tails and can manifest Nine-Tails Chakra Cloak (Kurama Mode) and was taught Toad Sage Mode at Mount Myōbok. He can combine them.

Six Path Sage Mode is just another version with the Sage Chakra mixed in, basically he is stacking them.
 
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You are looking at things from the perspective of "Modes." You are not distinguishing the difference in attributes like Toad Sage Mode and Dragon Sage Mode. What Hagoromo did was give them his chakra. They "awaken" those abilities.

As far as Naruto (since your basing your entire theory around his Sage Mode), you have to remember that Naruto holds the Nine-Tails and can manifest Nine-Tails Chakra Cloak (Kurama Mode) and was taught Toad Sage Mode at Mount Myōbok. He can combine them.

Six Path Sage Mode is just another version with the Sage Chakra mixed in, basically he is stacking them.
This may sound awkward, but what you are saying is basically agreeing with my entire premise.

The following statement from you is exactly what I have been insinuating the whole time:

"What Hagoromo did was give them his chakra. They "awaken" those abilities."

Naruto's RSM eyes display the markings of toad sage mode because Naruto gathers his own toad based senjutsu and balances that with his rikudou/bijuu chakara. It is not because Hagoromo gave Naruto any special senjutsu.

Similarly, Naruto's eyes display Kurama's influence because he is using Kurama's chakara. It is not because of anything that Hagoromo gave him.

Additionally, Naruto's cloaked RSM mode resembles the juubi jinchuuriki because Naruto has all of the components that make up the juubi's chakara. It is not solely because of the gift given to him by Hagoromo.

In short, the only things that Hagoromo gave Naruto were six paths chakara and the yang seal. He did not give Naruto six paths sage mode itself. Naruto awakened six paths sage mode by combining the six paths chakara with things that he already possessed prior to receiving chakara from Hagoromo (those things were the bijuu chakaras and the ability to use senjutsu).
 

Yahcob13

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Are you trying to say that Naruto will become more proficient at sage mode and eventually develop his own form of spsm since he no longer has Kurama as a crutch?
 
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Are you trying to say that Naruto will become more proficient at sage mode and eventually develop his own form of spsm since he no longer has Kurama as a crutch?
No. I am trying to say that six paths sage mode is not just a handout from Hagoromo as the data book suggests. It is a form that comes from the mixture of six paths chakara, the chakara of all 9 bijuus and senjutsu.
 

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No. I am trying to say that six paths sage mode is not just a handout from Hagoromo as the data book suggests. It is a form that comes from the mixture of six paths chakara, the chakara of all 9 bijuus and senjutsu.
This may sound awkward, but what you are saying is basically agreeing with my entire premise.

The following statement from you is exactly what I have been insinuating the whole time:

"What Hagoromo did was give them his chakra. They "awaken" those abilities."

Naruto's RSM eyes display the markings of toad sage mode because Naruto gathers his own toad based senjutsu and balances that with his rikudou/bijuu chakara. It is not because Hagoromo gave Naruto any special senjutsu.

Similarly, Naruto's eyes display Kurama's influence because he is using Kurama's chakara. It is not because of anything that Hagoromo gave him.

Additionally, Naruto's cloaked RSM mode resembles the juubi jinchuuriki because Naruto has all of the components that make up the juubi's chakara. It is not solely because of the gift given to him by Hagoromo.

In short, the only things that Hagoromo gave Naruto were six paths chakara and the yang seal. He did not give Naruto six paths sage mode itself. Naruto awakened six paths sage mode by combining the six paths chakara with things that he already possessed prior to receiving chakara from Hagoromo (those things were the bijuu chakaras and the ability to use senjutsu).
I didn't realize it, but we might be saying the same thing, however, I disagree that it requires all nine Tailed Beast.
 
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I didn't realize it, but we might be saying the same thing, however, I disagree that it requires all nine Tailed Beast.
I see. If I may ask for your opinion then, what do you think are the components that are required for six paths sage mode (both the base RSM and the chakara cloak with the truth seeking balls)?
Post automatically merged:

Hahahahahaha ...naroto loses kurana and his fapbayz stat make six path chakra thread...FVVCKING FUNNNNY!!!!!!!..
In what way does this thread suggest that I am a Naruto fapboy (especially when I have insinuated that Naruto has lost RSM with the loss of Kurama)?

By the way, my favorite character is Madara Uchiha.
 

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Therefore, so long as Naruto still has the chakara given to him by Hagoromo, he should still possess the above form of six paths sage mode even if he no longer possesses the chakara of all 9 bijuus.
The problem is it was given alongside all the tailed beasts being present in the manga, which is also why TBB are also shown in the SPSM databook entry. Naturally they only manifested in the cloaked level, but the whole thing is referred to as SPSM. That is why people believe it is gone. Also, the databank tells you, it doesn't suggest it.

I view it more like, Naruto got 9 tailed beasts chakra, then Hogaromo's yang rokudo chakra interacted with it granting SPSM. The same way he gave Sauce the Rinnegan. In Sasuke's case he may still retain the chakra since his brain produces it, while in Naruto's case it is questionable as it's not listed as a KKG. Then again that might change in this gutter tier series.
 
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The problem is it was given alongside all the tailed beasts being present in the manga, which is also why TBB are also shown in the SPSM databook entry. Naturally they only manifested in the cloaked level, but the whole thing is referred to as SPSM. That is why people believe it is gone. Also, the databank tells you, it doesn't suggest it.

I view it more like, Naruto got 9 tailed beasts chakra, then Hogaromo's yang rokudo chakra interacted with it granting SPSM. The same way he gave Sauce the Rinnegan. In Sasuke's case he may still retain the chakra since his brain produces it, while in Naruto's case it is questionable as it's not listed as a KKG. Then again that might change in this gutter tier series.
You do know that I am in agreement with you right? You quoted an early part of my post where I was simply explaining the thought process of those who believe that Naruto still has RSM after losing Kurama. I would later go on to explain why I believe that he no longer has RSM, and what I believe the components of RSM are.
To summarize, I believe that RSM is the mixture of:

Six paths chakara
The chakara of all 9 bijuus
Senjutsu (natural energy)

The only thing that Hagoromo gave Naruto and Sasuke was the six paths chakara (and the seals)

Naruto already had the chakara of all 9 bijuus and the ability to gather senjutsu, so those things just mixed together with the six paths chakara to create six paths senjutsu.

In a similar way, the six paths chakara simply mutated Sasuke's sharingan to the rinnegan.
 

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Why don't you actually watch Naruto instead of reading Databooks..all of the points you made are pretty clear to anyone who have watched Naruto....I haven't read this thread till the end bu I can tell this is just basic shit..
 
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Yahcob13

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No. I am trying to say that six paths sage mode is not just a handout from Hagoromo as the data book suggests. It is a form that comes from the mixture of six paths chakara, the chakara of all 9 bijuus and senjutsu.
I don't think the tailed beasts are a requirement. Hagaromo made the tailed beasts at the end of his life. He was already reknown as the sage of six paths by then. I think Naruto was using Ashura's version of spsm.
Post automatically merged:

Why don't you actually watch Naruto instead of reading Databooks..all of the points you made are pretty clear to anyone who have watched Naruto....I haven't read this thread till the end bu I can tell this is just basic shit..
You're just smarter than everyone else. We need time to catch up.
 
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I don't think the tailed beasts are a requirement. Hagaromo made the tailed beasts at the end of his life. He was already reknown as the sage of six paths by then. I think Naruto was using Ashura's version of spsm.
Yeah, see at first I was thinking along a similar line as you.

Here are some facts:

Hagoromo possessed the six paths senjutsu even before he became the ten tails jinchuuriki, and he still possessed it as a spirit after his death.

Hamura possessed the six paths senjutsu without ever being a jinchuuriki.

Asura also possessed six paths senjutsu without being a jinchuuriki.

Because of the above 3 facts, I believed that the only things necessary for six paths senjutsu were six paths chakara and senjutsu (no bijuu chakaras).

However, when I thought about how similar Naruto's cloaked RSM (with the truth seeking balls) was to the juubi jinchuuriki, and when I thought about what the juubi's chakara actually consists of, it all added up.

What is the juubi's chakara actually made of?

1. Is it made of the chakara of all 9 bijuus? Yeah, well duh. The juubi is literally the amalgamation of all bijuus.

2. Is it made of senjutsu? Yeah. The juubi was stated several times to be composed of senjutsu.

3. Is it made of six paths chakara? Well, yeah. Why else would the juubi's jinchuuriki instantly gains access to six paths power?

These are the 3 things that the juubi's chakara is actually made of. Therefore, wouldn't it make sense for the mixture of those 3 things to produce a mode that is very similar to that of a ten tails jinchuuriki (such as Naruto's cloaked RSM)?

As for Asura, I figure that maybe since he was a son of a ten tails jinchuuriki, he was just born with some dormant residual juubi chakara (despite not actually being its jinchuuriki). The same would apply to an even greater extent to Hagoromo and Hamura who were the children of the woman who ate directly from the divine tree.

Besides, the point has been brought up that if six paths senjutsu only required six paths chakara and senjutsu (no bijuu chakara), then Madara would have gotten six paths senjutsu when he took Hashirama's senjutsu.
 

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Is it made of six paths chakara? Well, yeah. Why else would the juubi's jinchuuriki instantly gains access to six paths power?
I don't think that is true. There was no indication that Obito sama or Madara had access to the six paths power. The tailed beasts were created with the six paths power. That's the closest they could get to it. The rest is sealed in his body. I don't even think Naruto and Sasuke can use it anymore. Of course there is a chance that the seals regenerate if Sasuke gets a new arm.
 
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I don't think that is true. There was no indication that Obito sama or Madara had access to the six paths power. The tailed beasts were created with the six paths power. That's the closest they could get to it. The rest is sealed in his body. I don't even think Naruto and Sasuke can use it anymore. Of course there is a chance that the seals regenerate if Sasuke gets a new arm.
You seem to be gravely misunderstanding me here. When I say the words "six paths power", I am not referring to those yin and yang seals or the creation of all things technique.

When I said "six paths" power, I am just referring to six paths chakara. Anyone who possesses an attribute or ability related to the six paths can be said to have the power of the six paths. For example, a rinnegan wielder possesses the power of the six paths. A user of six paths senjutsu possesses the power of the six paths. Someone who possesses neither of those things, but simply possesses six paths chakara alone can be said to possess the power of the six paths.

The power of the six paths => six paths power

Do you get it? The phrase "six paths power" doesn't just refer to those seals.

Now let's try this again.

I am going to go over the 3 components that make up the juubi, and I would like it if you would tell me whether you agree or disagree that the juubi has this component:

1. The juubi is composed of the chakaras of all 9 bijuus. Do you agree or disagree?

2. The juubi is composed of senjutsu. Do you agree or disagree?

3. The juubi is composed of six paths chakara. Do you agree or disagree?
 

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1. The juubi is composed of the chakaras of all 9 bijuus. Do you agree or disagree?
I disagree. The bijuu were created from the juubi's chakra.
2. The juubi is composed of senjutsu. Do you agree or disagree?
I disagree. It just absorbs any kind of chakra it just so happened to be an abundance of nature chakra on the planet.
3. The juubi is composed of six paths chakara. Do you agree or disagree?
I'm gonna have to disagree with you again on this one. Six paths chakra is Hagaromo's chakra. Just sayin
 
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I disagree. The bijuu were created from the juubi's chakra.
Now you are just being a smart aleck and arguing semantics. In the end, your statement above still means that the bijuu are in fact the juubi's chakara. The order of existence doesn't matter. Was the juubi not recreated by shoving all 9 bijuus (or at the very least parts of all 9 bijuus) back into the mazou (which was the husk of the 10 tails)?

I disagree. It just absorbs any kind of chakra it just so happened to be an abundance of nature chakra on the planet.
The manga disagrees with you. Here are some scans to prove it:

First off, here is a scan that directly says that the juubi is made of nature energy.
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Here is a scan from a later chapter that reiterates the same thing.

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I'm gonna have to disagree with you again on this one. Six paths chakra is Hagaromo's chakra. Just sayin
Hagoromo is not the only one with six paths chakara. You do know that Hamura also possessed six paths chakara right? The juubi possessed it too. Why else did Madara and Obito gain senjutsu of the six paths upon becoming the juubi's jinchuuriki if the juubi does not possess six paths chakara?

(If you say that senjutsu of the six paths does not possess six paths chakara you are delusional).
 

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Was the juubi not recreated by shoving all 9 bijuus (or at the very least parts of all 9 bijuus) back into the mazou (which was the husk of the 10 tails)?
The husk is the juubi. They returned the chakra that originally belonged to it.

The juubi isn't a sage it doesn't absorb nature chakra and balance it with its own reserves to produce a more powerful type of chakra. It absorbs any and all chakra. Kaguya said all chakra belongs to her. Equal Opportunity chakra absorbtion. That was a good chapter but it says nothing about the juubi using senjutsu.
Hagoromo is not the only one with six paths chakara. You do know that Hamura also possessed six paths chakara right? The juubi possessed it too. Why else did Madara and Obito gain senjutsu of the six paths upon becoming the juubi's jinchuuriki if the juubi does not possess six paths chakara?
I didn't know the last was canon but Hamura would have had to use six paths chakra to seal Kaguya. I just think that Hagaromo gave him a seal. Because if Hagaromo only had six paths yang he couldn't have given Sasuke six paths yin. Madara and Obito had the tailed beast chakras which were created with six paths chakra. I suppose that possession of all the tailed beasts, a rinnegan, and gedo mazo gives you six paths senjutsu by default. Or Madara didn't know what the f he was talking about because black zetsu lied to him.
 
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