Muu vs Itachi: Why Itachi would LOSE

[FizzyDrink]

First off let me start by saying that this would be an incredibly close battle, and it is only SLIGHTLY in favor of Muu. But I do think it is, and here's why.

Itachi's arsenal​

Powerful Katon Techniques
The sharingan, allowing him to copy techniques and see one's chakra
Tsukiyomi
Weaker genjutsu, not needing eye contact (uses finger)
Amaterasu
Susanoo, with the Sword of Totsuka, Magatamas, and the Yata Mirror
He uses clones that split into crows to confuse the enemy
Incredible intelligence
strength in Taijutsu and the use of kunai and shuriken​

Muu's arsenal​

Dust release, able to turn whatever it envelopes to dust
The ability to turn completely invisible as well as making his chakra signature disappear
Earth, wind, and fire affinities
The ability to split into two bodies to avoid an attack
Very powerful sensing abilities
The ability to alter the weight of a specific target, including himself, allowing him to fly

So to begin with, I shall state a scenario that is entirely plausible.

If these two were to start out a battle, Muu could start off by using his invisibility technique. Even though Itachi can see chakra, Muu can erase his chakra signature, so Itachi should not be able to see him. This would give Muu all the time in the world to hit a killing blow on Itachi. Even if Itachi throws up Susanoo, a massive jinton that envelopes it would certainly turn him to dust, since the Yata Mirror can only protect one part. Also, considering that 25 of Madara's Susanoos got completely turned to dust without even one escaping, Itachi's far less mobile Susanoo should have no chance.

Now lets say, for some reason, the battle commences, and this doesn't happen, and Itachi escapes, or Muu just doesn't go invisible. Muu theoretically still has foils to all of Itachi's abilities.

Dealing with Susanoo​

Due to his ability to fly, Muu should easily be able to just fly out of the range of Susanoo's sword.

Also with his versatility in the sky and his sensing abilities, he could dodge a Magatama.

And as I mentioned, a Jinton big enough would overcome the Yata Mirror.

Overall, Susanoo is actually the least of Muu's worries.
​

Dealing with Genjutsu​

In flight, Muu should be too far away for eye contact, eliminating the problem of Tsukiyomi or something lesser.

Now, if you say that eye contact IS possible, there are other solutions.

Muu, being a sensor, can easily break out of a lesser genjutsu by noticing that his chakra flow is irregular. So nothing short of Tsukiyomi would work on him.

And Secondly, using his sensing abilities, he could track Itachi in that way, meaning that he wouldn't need to make eye contact to begin with, he could just follow Itachi using his sensing skills, similar to how he dodged Naruto's attack in the same fashion.

So neither genjutsu nor Susanoo are a problem. The main problem is Amaterasu.​

Dealing with Amaterasu​

Here, the most important thing for Muu would be to use his sensing abilities to notice when Itachi is going to use Amaterasu. This way, he could prepare an earth wall in front of himself to protect himself from the flames. And being a sensor, this wouldn't hinder him because he would still know where Itachi was.

If Itachi were to hit, Muu could split, and thus avoid the flames. However, if he were forced to split at any point, the battle would shift completely over to Itachi, because Muu's chakra would have dropped greatly.​

Dealing with the rest​

If Itachi were to attempt to use clones, he might be able to buy some time, but in reality, it would be a bad move. It would lower his chakra immensely, overall, and Muu would have all of the same solutions to Itachi's attacks. So this would be a tactical error on Itachi's part, and so with his intelligence, he probably wouldn't revert to it.

Shuriken and Kunai obviously are stopped with an earth wall.

Itachi's regular katon can be countered by Muu's, as well as by a wall.

So overall, Muu has a way to avoid all of Itachi's attacks. And Itachi has no answer to a massive Dust Release attack. So overall, Muu would have the upper hand. However, if you take Itachi's intelligence into account, it could be very close. That is why I say Muu wins 55 out of 100 times. It would be very even matched, and a very good battle.​

​

 

[genii96]

thanx for stating the obvious.

 

[FizzyDrink]

thanx for stating the obvious.

The obvious? Do you know how many people would have Itachi winning? Apparently a lot more than you would expect.

 

[TobisPawn]

Interesting! I'm 50/50 on Mu vs Itachi, though I'm leaning for Mu.

 

[TheSages456]

Its kinda obvious that Mu wins because:
1. Itachi cant find him when he turns invisible
2. Itachi cant catch Mu off guard
3. Jinton fodderizes anything but ems susano

 

[Exaar]

Its kinda obvious that Mu wins because:
1. Itachi cant find him when he turns invisible
2. Itachi cant catch Mu off guard
3. Jinton fodderizes anything but ems susano

@ Bold.

What?, If it fodderizes Ms sasuke it will do the exact same to EMS susanoo.

 

[Exaar]

Its kinda obvious that Mu wins because:
1. Itachi cant find him when he turns invisible
2. Itachi cant catch Mu off guard
3. Jinton fodderizes anything but ems susano

@ Bold.

What?, If it fodderizes Ms susanoo it will do the exact same to EMS susanoo.

 

[TheSages456]

@ Bold.

What?, If it fodderizes Ms susanoo it will do the exact same to EMS susanoo.

Madaras susano tanked it.

 

[TobisPawn]

Madaras susano tanked it.

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It didn't tank it. It got taken out but Madara absorbed it so he was unharmed. Unless you're talking about another panel.

 

[sindi1997]

Pal madara took down muu and onoki and he has the same abillity as itachi exept ps which he didn t use since onoki wasn t even aware of are you srsl even konsidering itachi to be that weak to madara and the answer is noo muu can hide from sensors but its never stated that it can hide from sharingan or anyother dojutsu that can see chakra and as for invisability a simple t tomoe sharingan saw throu invisability (tobi vs rock invisble ninja) so that must be the secret sharingan can see throu invisability or its something else but in anycase itachi>muu

 

[TheSages456]

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It didn't tank it. It got taken out but Madara absorbed it so he was unharmed. Unless you're talking about another panel.

Im talking about when madara activated perfect susano. The armor tanked jinton

 

[Dantee]

Muu isn't beating Itachi.


You say Muu is invincible to genjutsu and susanoo. However he already lost to EMS Madara who didn't even use a PS. It took a massive Jinton from Onnoki to destroy Susanoo so dust release damaging a full susano is very possible. Destroying it, i dont think so without using a good amount of chakra. Furthormore Itachi's Susanoo has yata mirror and that reflects all jutsu.


Genjutsu would still be in play. Even if Muu manages to get out it's not breaking out that matters. Genjutsu is supposed to be used to create openings and that is what Itachi is very good at.


Izanagi is also a possibiliy.


Dust Release is also a slow tech. It also leaves mu vulnerable because he has to stay stationary to attack but also visible. If he does attack, visible and in the process of forming dust release, amaterasu would get him before he forms dust release.


Your counter for amaterasu is all wrong. Even if Muu senses the attack he won't be able to do anything in time to avoid getting hit. This also depends that Muu has knowledge of the attack.


If Muu splits the match is over.

 

[TobisPawn]

Im talking about when madara activated perfect susano. The armor tanked jinton

Oh. Never mind then, lol

 

[ElectricClover]

Thanks for this. It's obvious, but I know a lot of people still disagree because they're fanboys or just ignorant (sindi1997 saying sharingan can see through Muu's invisibility-- fail, sir), so it's good to affirm it. P.S. everyone Muu+Oonoki vs Madara is nothing to go by; I'm getting tired of that as an excuse. First of all Muu outright challenged Madara so he did not use invisibility, which he would against Itachi who has no counter. Second we didn't see that battle so we have no idea what Madara did to win, perhaps tricks, perhaps not, but we can't assume anything. Muu might not have even used jinton. Sorry, personal vendetta; anyway, good job FizzyDrink.

 

[Dantee]

Thanks for this. It's obvious, but I know a lot of people still disagree because they're fanboys or just ignorant (sindi1997 saying sharingan can see through Muu's invisibility-- fail, sir), so it's good to affirm it. P.S. everyone Muu+Oonoki vs Madara is nothing to go by; I'm getting tired of that as an excuse. First of all Muu outright challenged Madara so he did not use invisibility, which he would against Itachi who has no counter. Second we didn't see that battle so we have no idea what Madara did to win, perhaps tricks, perhaps not, but we can't assume anything. Muu might not have even used jinton. Sorry, personal vendetta; anyway, good job FizzyDrink.

Lols you think Muu wouldn't use his main techs against Madara and just let himself get overrunned. You dare call us Fanboys with such fail logic. :sy:

 

[FizzyDrink]

Pal madara took down muu and onoki and he has the same abillity as itachi exept ps which he didn t use since onoki wasn t even aware of are you srsl even konsidering itachi to be that weak to madara and the answer is noo muu can hide from sensors but its never stated that it can hide from sharingan or anyother dojutsu that can see chakra and as for invisability a simple t tomoe sharingan saw throu invisability (tobi vs rock invisble ninja) so that must be the secret sharingan can see throu invisability or its something else but in anycase itachi>muu

I'm not considering Itachi to be weak at all. I'm just saying, with all of his powers that we've seen so far, Muu has a counter.

The fight against Madara can not be used as an example in this, since we don't know how he won. And about the invisibility, Muu can hide his chakra, which means the Sharingan can't see him...Obito saw the rock ninja's invisibility because his version of invisibility didn't hide his chakra as well, but Muu's does.

Also, learn to spell, it was honestly really difficult for me to work out your paragraph.

Muu isn't beating Itachi.


You say Muu is invincible to genjutsu and susanoo. However he already lost to EMS Madara who didn't even use a PS. It took a massive Jinton from Onnoki to destroy Susanoo so dust release damaging a full susano is very possible. Destroying it, i dont think so without using a good amount of chakra. Furthormore Itachi's Susanoo has yata mirror and that reflects all jutsu.


Genjutsu would still be in play. Even if Muu manages to get out it's not breaking out that matters. Genjutsu is supposed to be used to create openings and that is what Itachi is very good at.


Izanagi is also a possibiliy.


Dust Release is also a slow tech. It also leaves mu vulnerable because he has to stay stationary to attack but also visible. If he does attack, visible and in the process of forming dust release, amaterasu would get him before he forms dust release.


Your counter for amaterasu is all wrong. Even if Muu senses the attack he won't be able to do anything in time to avoid getting hit. This also depends that Muu has knowledge of the attack.


If Muu splits the match is over.

As I said above, the fight against Madara should not be used as an example, because we do not know how Madara won. Once you start guessing what happened in that fight, your validity goes out the window.

I don't know exactly what you're getting at with your whole Susanoo point, but Muu can certainly destroy it. Remember, he can use Jinton to fully envelope his target. You can't deny that he can create one big enough to capture Itachi's Susanoo. Also, as I mentioned in my post, Yata Mirror would be useless because that only works against linear attacks. If Muu creates a Jinton that envelopes his Susanoo, Yata Mirror won't be able to cover it. So he would certainly be turned to dust.

I don't know if you read everything I said, but I also mentioned how Muu could easily just close his eyes and use his sensing abilities to continue fighting. He can fight perfectly well without looking at his target, like he did when he dodged Naruto's attack from behind. Genjutsu would certainly not be a problem.

As I said before, Amaterasu would be the biggest problem. But Muu is capable of sensing it before Itachi uses it, and seeing how when Nagato sensed it there seemed to be plenty of time to counter, he could certainly come up with an earth defense in time to block Amaterasu. And he doesn't have to know about the technique to know that something bad is coming when chakra starts building up in Itachi's eyes.

You're point about Jinton's speed is your best. However, considering that Muu also has Katon, Fuuton, and Doton attacks, he very likely come up with an attack combination that would allow him time to land Jinton. And considering how he would be able to avoid the majority of Itachi's attacks, his chances of landing a killer blow is also more likely.

We don't know if Itachi is capable of Izanagi, and even if he is, it would only work to avoid attacks by Muu for a short while, it would do nothing to aid him in landing his attacks. And in the end, it would cost him an eye, which if he's still fighting by the time it's over, would spell certain victory for Muu.

I agree that if Muu splits it's most likely over. But seeing that Muu has counters, he would most likely not have to.

 

[megallica]

finally, someone in NB realize this. kinda thinking of making this thread a while back but fanboys will attack me. now i know im not alone but seriously guys, what can itachi do to a man who is invisible, has no chakra to trace, and uses dust release !!! muu can even avoid by being sealed in the totsuka blade by splitting himself !!! (if itachi can hit him) the only way for itachi to win is be able to block jinton with the shield of yata repeatedly until muu gives up, or catch muu in a gengutsu. very unlikely...

 

[Dantee]

As I said above, the fight against Madara should not be used as an example, because we do not know how Madara won. Once you start guessing what happened in that fight, your validity goes out the window.

I don't know exactly what you're getting at with your whole Susanoo point, but Muu can certainly destroy it. Remember, he can use Jinton to fully envelope his target. You can't deny that he can create one big enough to capture Itachi's Susanoo. Also, as I mentioned in my post, Yata Mirror would be useless because that only works against linear attacks. If Muu creates a Jinton that envelopes his Susanoo, Yata Mirror won't be able to cover it. So he would certainly be turned to dust.

I don't know if you read everything I said, but I also mentioned how Muu could easily just close his eyes and use his sensing abilities to continue fighting. He can fight perfectly well without looking at his target, like he did when he dodged Naruto's attack from behind. Genjutsu would certainly not be a problem.

As I said before, Amaterasu would be the biggest problem. But Muu is capable of sensing it before Itachi uses it, and seeing how when Nagato sensed it there seemed to be plenty of time to counter, he could certainly come up with an earth defense in time to block Amaterasu. And he doesn't have to know about the technique to know that something bad is coming when chakra starts building up in Itachi's eyes.

You're point about Jinton's speed is your best. However, considering that Muu also has Katon, Fuuton, and Doton attacks, he very likely come up with an attack combination that would allow him time to land Jinton. And considering how he would be able to avoid the majority of Itachi's attacks, his chances of landing a killer blow is also more likely.

We don't know if Itachi is capable of Izanagi, and even if he is, it would only work to avoid attacks by Muu for a short while, it would do nothing to aid him in landing his attacks. And in the end, it would cost him an eye, which if he's still fighting by the time it's over, would spell certain victory for Muu.

I agree that if Muu splits it's most likely over. But seeing that Muu has counters, he would most likely not have to.

I'm just pointing out that his techs aren't as invincible at it seems because Madara and the 2nd Mizu were able to fight against it. Being able to sense Amaterasu and dodging it is two different things.

What can Muu do to counter it before it lands? His senses might go off, but what can he do to defend against it? He has no techs fast enough to defned himself.

It seemed like Nagato had plenty of time to counter because Itachi made it seem that way. Remember he was trying to release himself from Edo. The user of is able to shoot the flames when they want after build up in the eye.

Spoiler

Nagato says O shi amaterasu

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It's not amaterasu?

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oooo

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

3 whole pages Itachi held amaterasu.


Jinton will also leave him vulnerable to amaterasu because he has to stay stationary. It's also not a stretch to say any tech he uses while invisible will turn him visible. A combination of attacks? Weren't you the one who said to stop guessing. Muu hasn't shown any of that.

 

[Bogard]

Izanagi is also a possibiliy.

When has he shown he could use Izanagi? If you're talking about Izanami, even if we assume it could work(not sure), he couldn't even cast it since to use it, you must approach the ennemy, and since Muu is a long range fighter, good luck

 

[FizzyDrink]

I'm just pointing out that his techs aren't as invincible at it seems because Madara and the 2nd Mizu were able to fight against it. Being able to sense Amaterasu and dodging it is two different things.

What can Muu do to counter it before it lands? His senses might go off, but what can he do to defend against it? He has no techs fast enough to defned himself.

It seemed like Nagato had plenty of time to counter because Itachi made it seem that way. Remember he was trying to release himself from Edo. The user of is able to shoot the flames when they want after build up in the eye.

Spoiler

Nagato says O shi amaterasu

You must be registered for see images

It's not amaterasu?

You must be registered for see images

oooo

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

3 whole pages Itachi held amaterasu.


Jinton will also leave him vulnerable to amaterasu because he has to stay stationary. It's also not a stretch to say any tech he uses while invisible will turn him visible. A combination of attacks? Weren't you the one who said to stop guessing. Muu hasn't shown any of that.

I didn't say he would dodge Amaterasu. I said that he would be able to create a barrier. He does have mastery of Doton techniques, and could quickly create one for sure. And you say that he wouldn't be fast enough???? You posted an example where he would have TONS of time to create a barrier to defend himself. As you said, it has to build up in the eye. Muu would sense this, and could create a stone barrier very quickly to defend himself. Considering the speed with which Oonoki summoned a massive barrier to defend from Madara's Magatama, without being a sensor, Muu should certainly be able to create one to cover just his body before Itachi fires Amaterasu.

And there's a difference between you guessing that Itachi has Izanagi, which he hasn't shown and we can't prove that he has (either way, I countered it), and me "guessing" that Muu can use a combination of Doton, Katon, and Fuuton attacks to give him time for a Jinton winner. We know FOR SURE that Muu can use those attacks, and in a battle, he would certainly use them. This would be a good way for him to create an opportunity to use jinton on Itachi.

However, I will admit that his ONE biggest problem is certainly the time that it takes to create a jinton. That is why I say the battle would be so close. But considering all things, Itachi has bigger problems to deal with than Muu does, which is why Muu has the overall advantage in this battle, but by only a little bit.