Relevance in argument is a broad term that the criticism of being irrelevant may refer to to many kinds of failures or shortcomings in an argument. Having reread the thread, and the posts therein, particularly my post, I can say the claim "Tsukuyomi is pretty much irrelevant" is an incorrect inference as Tsukuyomi isn't a failure or shortcoming in my argument that can prompt the criticism that a breach of relevance has been committed in argument for these reasons: Tsukuyomi is an important feature of this thread as it is Genjutsu and the thread itself, among its posters, such as yourself, presuppose a context in dialogue in which there is an issue or issues being discussed—which is true.
Tsukuyomi and perfect jinchūrikis' is a topic that can discussed in length for either. I do think that the portrayal and features of Tsukuyomi are stronger than those of the perfect jinchūrikis' to Genjutsu if I do not add the possibility that the bijū/host realm is timeless. My response changes if the bijū/host realm can proven, or we assume it to be true.
Like I said, this doesn't matter because it's not the fact that the impact of the Jutsu can't be broken but just the length which makes it harder to catch. Matter of fact, I could argue that it can be broken if Gyuki keeps giving B chakra constantly(Like how Samehada gives and can take from Kisame) which would counter Tsukoyomi when it eventually comes in.
By all means go ahead and produce an argument for your position, but be wary of something: first, it was stated Yagura was generally known to have controlled a bijū and that control is
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to be that of a perfect jinchūrikis'.
He confidently confirmed the others but said "maybe" when it came to Yagura. How's that a solid confirmation? That's even a reason for me to believe it's more of an assumption till I see otherwise though.
Kisame's shock could be attributed to having an inkling of the Sharingan's powers.
No..He knew the eye already but suggested this is beyond the normal eye power which was why he questioned who he was to be able to pull off such a feat. Asking who it was should already explain regardless of the eyes, it was the person behind it
I assume "the rest" refers to the other Uchiha, namely: Itachi, Sasuke, and Madara? If this is the reference, then the issue of perfect jinchūrikis' and Genjutsu is still arguably and becomes more delicate for these reasons: the author has never showed the relationship between a Genjutsu from an Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan, which increases the strength of the Sharingan's hypnotism, and perfect jinchūrikis', the relationship between Tsukuyomi and perfect jinchūrikis', and the relationship between Genjutsu atop other Genjutsus' and perfect jinchūrikis'. Now before I am misunderstood, or a poster like Proof jumps the gun with his assumptions: I am saying that I understand the portrayal of perfect jinchūrikis' suggest that perfect jinchūrikis' are invulnerable to Genjutsu, except for Mūgen Tsukuyomi and Obito if we count him, but there are instances where this portrayal becomes...questioned because of Tsukuyomi and Itachi layering another Genjutsu onto Izanami to make Kabuto to undo Edo Tensei.
Madara is an obvious except given the fact that he trained Obito. Itachi and Sasuke fall into that category...Didn't mention EMS but there's no solid proof that it would provide a Genjutsu so strong that the Jin won't be able to break it despite the perfect control. Only way this would be correct is if your Yagura claim of him being a perfect one is correct with proof. Even then, that would mean it depends on the MS user since it's not an ordinary feat.
It is possible, but is completely dependent upon Sasuke's abilities.
Don't know what it is..Never head of a double Genjutsu before or rather putting someone who's in a Genjutsu, in another Genjutsu. This should mean Sasuke himself would break the first Genjutsu since he interrupted it. Though it's all irrelevant since I've given a viable method such as constant chakra manipulation
The Sharingan perceives chakra: Killer B's chakra flow would change from regular to irregular to regular again—if Sasuke can act during the period where B's chakra flow is irregular he can place another Genjutsu onto the previous Genjutsu.
That's the byakugan albeit the Sharingan can see chakra...though not sure about it being able to see the flow like the Byakugan can. By the way if this is a reliable one, then why didn't Itachi perceive regularity with Kakashi's clone chakra until he saw it was completely ineffective? Pretty sure the Genjutsu had no effect on the clone so the chakra would still be regular. However Itachi only noticed it when the clone was still functioning and unaffected in real life.
This shouldn't be true and your strategy of him being able to use what I'll call a double Genjutsu is clearly wrong either way.
If Killer B's bout with Itachi is any indication, then Sasuke placing another Genjutsu onto the existing is plausible, considering that Itachi had enough time to do some action before the Gyūki broke B free from the Genjutsu. However be mindful of the fact that the action Sasuke takes doesn't necessarily have to be a Genjutsu. It can be what Sasuke thinks is the most optimal: a Genjutsu is but answer among many.
Constant give of chakra..Constant is the key word here. Not to mention I dealt with this...Besides Itachi would have to build up chakra to cast another. Gyuki can interfere then. Not that it's even needed since I've mentioned constant chakra manipulation which would mean there would always be an interference within B. Hahcibi didn't do this against Itachi or Sasuke. Check his fight with Kisame where he unleashed V2 and Hachibi and B's conversation would enable you understand what I mean. There's constant control and manipulation of the Chakra Hachibi gives him and this would break he Genjutsu when it slips in.
When a Genjutsu it causes distress in the recipient's chakra: if the Genjutsu is successful, then the recipient succumbs to the effect or effects of the Genjutsu that was used; during this incapacitation, the recipient's chakra is in disarray making them more susceptible to Genjutsu; the user of the Genjutsu can choose to select another Genjutsu, whatever its effect, to place the recipient under as they suffer or attempt to recover from the previous Genjutsu. Itachi showcased this during the finale of his bout with Kabuto where he placed another Genjutsu onto Izanami that orchestrated Kabuto to dispel Edo Tensei.
Izanami is a completely different form of Genjutsu and this doesn't help your argument considering how different theses 2 are. Not to mention you're going to have to explain how Itachi was dead but yet Izanami was still effective on him? Does that work for any other kind of Genjutsu? Not to mention Kabuto knew he was in a Genjutsu but yet couldn't break out because of the required procedure.
Izanami doesn't even use the eyes and it's not a visionary Genjutsu and it works via the use of both users senses. Not in reliable claim.
My point here is Izanami doesn't affect the vision while Tsukoyomi does. Hence using Izanami as a reason to why one can use 2 visionary Genjutsu while one is still active is a flawed point. Simply because they have different uses and affect different parts according to Itachi's explanation. Itachi died and one was till active? Every reason to believe that this doesn't work like the ordinary genjutsu so it's not applicable.
Again, if Killer B's bout with Itachi, or Sasuke's first bout with B for that matter, is any indication, then is a duration where the Gyūki interferes with the Genjutsu which decides when B can act again not counting Samehada. If Sasuke takes into account Samehada in conjunction with the Gyūki, then there are two interferences' with their own attributes that decide when B can act again in the event B is caught in a Genjutsu. It may seem extreme, unconventional, and perhaps devious, but Sasuke could place the Gyūki, and Samehada in a Genjutsu while B is in a Genjutsu. The questions this specific tactic hinders on is: can Samehada be placed in a Genjutsu, and can Sasuke enter the metaphysical sphere where the Gyūki is?
Lol take a break and rethink the bold..?
Like I said Gyuki just needs to keep giving him chakra and like Kisame said, it takes crazy control to keep those chakras in check giving how massively strong and big they were like B was doing. Any form of Genjutsu being slot in when Chakra is being giving and manipulated would be broken since a third party is involved..Hachibi.
