How in the world would those frogs know about amaterasu? considering there's only been 2 ms users shown to use it Itachi and Sasuke. Tobirama was noted to have went against enton but he died before jiraiya even became a sage. Even with his "sensory" skills he has no good speed feats to back it up he's to slow.
Because getting hit when you think the threat has been eliminated means you can't sense, you're totally right. I mean Juubi Jin Madara totally sensed that he was about to get hit from behind...er...wait..
There's a difference Juubi jin Madara didnt get a warning furthermore he thought zetsu could do harm being his own will so he had no reason to be on defense. Jiraiya may not be a sensor but dropping your guard does not mean your sensing abilities are dropped which they were not we've naruto able to sense full battlefields from oceans away yet jiraiya could not sense a man in the same hallway please. Also this is all irrelevant because he cannot dodge anyways.
Look at the scan i posted that seemed near instant the build up time for amaterasu is nonexistent because it happens to fast Itachi MS was clearly delayed due to KA when he finally got the chance to use amaterasu it seemed instant furthermore in that scan thats some kind of reverse summoning because shunshin does not make you poof its pure movements such a the following
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All instances where there was no poof what jiraiya did was something like this
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Futhermore there is no tree in the locations rocks are present though but with scans i provided he not dodging anyways
Jiraiya senses Amaterasu's chakra build up, then makes a kage bunshin right in front of him to block line of sight and the clone gets hit instead of Jiraiya.
Lawd the speed of amaterasu is always being underrated there's is no way your sensing then performing jutsu the requires handsigns before something
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fast hits you susanoo arrows which are not faster then amaterasu was able to stop danzo mid handsign yet amaterasu does not roast jiraiya before he performs a jutsu please also jiraiya would stick out like a sore thumb he has to talking frogs on his shoulders.
Nope he's already 1 shotted before then but ill play along. 1 Jiraiya is not making that many clones he's not kakashi couldnt naruto only make 3 clones while in sm and Hashirama could not make no sm clones at all in his edo form? so you expect to believe jiraiya can make sm clones to confuse sasuke? Child bye (but again ill play along) also with that many clones his offensive power which is not even capable of destroying ribcage susanoo is split to pieces Sasuke rushes him with his ribcage susanoo while destroying his clone with susanoo sword jiraiya who has ma & pa on his shoulders is easy to spot then is tooken out with by being smashed with a susanoo hand or chopped apart.
Amaterasu's chakra build up, then spits out her dust cloud to
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so he won't know where to aim Amaterasu.
Methods 2 and 3 work against Susanoo arrows as well. If Sasuke doesn't know where to aim his arrow, he can't hit Jiraiya.
Because her sensing was so useful when jiraiya got his arm tore off but i see again once amaterasu speed is underrated its take awhile for the dust cloud to completely cover someone (Assuming she gets it off because amaterasu could fry all three of them at once similar to what itachi did to those 3 headed dodgs )
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so he atleast gets one with amaterasu that dust cloud is not that big rapid fire susanoo arrows in bound to hit one of them or large castings of amaterasu
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smokes them out or even traping them by casting amaterasu around the smoke screen but if Sasuke really feels jiraiya is a dangerous he summons his hawk in prep kirin thens its over like that.
*Sigh* Tobirama already established that sensors cannot sense when they aren't moulding/kneading/using chakra [
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]. It should be obvious that Jiraiya, Shima, and Fukasaku stopped moulding chakra after they killed the three paths since they thought that they had won. Furthermore, Jiraiya was confirmed to be a Frog Kata user in the databook. The fact that he is an imperfect sage is irrelevant since the ability to use Frog Kata alone
*Sigh* Tobirama already established that sensors cannot sense when they aren't moulding/kneading/using chakra [
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]. It should be obvious that Jiraiya, Shima, and Fukasaku stopped moulding chakra after they killed the three paths since they thought that they had won. Furthermore, Jiraiya was confirmed to be a Frog Kata user in the databook. The fact that he is an imperfect sage is irrelevant since the ability to use Frog Kata alone
He didn't have to sense Pein. Pein talked to Jiraiya before cutting his arm off, so Jiraiya was aware yet failed to avoid the attack completly. Amaterasu is way faster than something like that.
He didn't have to sense Pein. Pein talked to Jiraiya before cutting his arm off, so Jiraiya was aware yet failed to avoid the attack completly. Amaterasu is way faster than something like that.
I wasn't even saying anything about Amaterasu in my post. If you want counters to Amaterasu, read beansandcornbread2's post which wasn't countered at all.
I wasn't even saying anything about Amaterasu in my post. If you want counters to Amaterasu, read beansandcornbread2's post which wasn't countered at all.
Unorthodox counters beansandcornbread2's post in regards to amaterasu.
Says beansandcornbread2's post wasn't countered.
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Jiraiya may be a sensor, but that doesn't mean he can dodge amaterasu. Sensory abilities don't automatically allow you to dodge attacks, you have to fast enough to do so. Else, we'd be claiming Ino, Hinata and Karin can dodge amaterasu.
I wasn't even saying anything about Amaterasu in my post. If you want counters to Amaterasu, read beansandcornbread2's post which wasn't countered at all.
someone clearly ignored my post also are you sure thats how all sensory works because naruto had no reasons to be suspicious when he was on that turtle island but the moment he used sage mode he sensed everything. Something else you did not anticipate Jiraiya had just got out of a battle he may have dropped his guard but to claim he stoped everything battlewise is a joke especially when his sage mode was still on and they we're still suspicious about how all those bodies had rinnegan.
Unorthodox counters beansandcornbread2's post in regards to amaterasu.
Says beansandcornbread2's post wasn't countered.
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Jiraiya may be a sensor, but that doesn't mean he can dodge amaterasu. Sensory abilities don't automatically allow you to dodge attacks, you have to fast enough to do so. Else, we'd be claiming Ino, Hinata and Karin can dodge amaterasu.
Sorry Ice, but you're more suited to just posting instead of using gifs or pictures. It's painfully unamusing when you do it, unfortunately. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Don't know what you're looking at, but all I saw was "sasuke gg" nonsense.
Jiraiya has displayed enough skill and speed with shunshin to get away from Sasuke's LoS before he casts Amaterasu. Being able to sense the build up gives him a heads up.
And even if I was wrong, these comparisons of yours still couldn't be more off base regardless Hinata? Karin? Lel...
someone clearly ignored my post also are you sure thats how all sensory works because naruto had no reasons to be suspicious when he was on that turtle island but the moment he used sage mode he sensed everything. Something else you did not anticipate Jiraiya had just got out of a battle he may have dropped his guard but to claim he stoped everything battlewise is a joke especially when his sage mode was still on and they we're still suspicious about how all those bodies had rinnegan.
Lets not forget Pein mocks Jiraiya with his own words before attacking. So it wasn't matter of getting caught off-guard either. His SM is clearly active and Pein gives him a heads up before attacking which renders off-guard argument meaningless.
Lets not forget Pein mocks Jiraiya with his own words before attacking. So it wasn't matter of getting caught off-guard either. His SM is clearly active and Pein gives him a heads up before attacking which renders off-guard argument meaningless.
exactly what i'v been saying iv debated this matchup to death won them all yet when a new thread appears those who've i won against act like they dont remember
Lets not forget Pein mocks Jiraiya with his own words before attacking. So it wasn't matter of getting caught off-guard either. His SM is clearly active and Pein gives him a heads up before attacking which renders off-guard argument meaningless.
^Pretty much this, given the fact that Amaterasu is instant and some people forgot that. And HECK, like MS Sasuke only had Amaterasu in his sleeves lmao.
Nonetheless, the first strategy is flawed cause you assume there is a rock or a tree he can take cover behind before Sasuke releases Amaterasu. Location was never specified in the OP. In fact, it's Danzo vs. Sasuke, so he's completely exposed. Besides, using Amaterasu against Jiraiya once he's entered Sage Mode isn't a wise idea. Just a waste of stamina. Using Susanoo to pressure him is more effective.
1. If he makes a clone in front of him, it pierces through and kills Jiraiya. If he makes a bunch of clones surrounding him, not only does he reduce his chakra level so low that he won't be able to do anything effective to Sasuke as long as the clones are out, he'll still have a mental marker on where Jiraiya's original place was. Just how if I take 1 red cup, and then put 10 red cups on each side. I'll still remember where the original cup was. So he'd aim his arrow there and kill Jiraiya.
when clones are formed or a transformation jutsu is made or undone. Jiraiya would be
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on them to make it appear like there was Ma and Pa on each clone's shoulders. So your red cup comparison doesn't work when there's also a ton of smoke in the mix.
2. Yes, he won't be able to see to aim his arrow, but considering Jiraiya won't know to do this until the arrow has been aimed at him...Sasuke will have a good idea of where Jiraiya is located. Since Jiraiya can't dodge, even if Sasuke fires it into the dust cloud, he'll get hit. Not being able to see doesn't matter when Jiraiya himself can't change his position.
Jiraiya can still counter it with Chou Oodama Rasengan to change the arrow's trajectory if Danzo's mokuton tree could do that. Rasengan is violently rotating chakra spinning quickly, so it would deflect the arrow or at the very least change its trajectory. Either way, Jiraiya remains unharmed.
Look at the scan i posted that seemed near instant the build up time for amaterasu is nonexistent because it happens to fast Itachi MS was clearly delayed due to KA when he finally got the chance to use amaterasu it seemed instant furthermore in that scan thats some kind of reverse summoning because shunshin does not make you poof its pure movements such a the following
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All instances where there was no poof what jiraiya did was something like this
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Futhermore there is no tree in the locations rocks are present though but with scans i provided he not dodging anyways
When you say "look at the scan I just posted" are you referring to
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scan? Well you posted it yourself so that just makes things even easier for me. If Sasuke and Itachi prepped and executed Amaterasu so fast then how did Kabuto already surround them with spiderwebs
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? That means he casted the webs to completely surround them before Amaterasu was used on the webs. You're judging its prep based on panel time alone and ignoring its speed in relation to other events.
Itachi's MS wasn't delayed by KA. Let me break it down for you.
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Panel with the red box is when Itachi started prepping Amaterasu. Green box is when the crow used KA on Itachi, so every event in the panels in between with a red line through it happened during Amaterasu's preparation. If KA had come into play before then (a baseless claim) then Nagato wouldn't have distinctly recognized the type of chakra as Amaterasu.
Yes it was shunshin. Just like
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was shunshin or
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was shunshin. Jiraiya got from Point A to Point B in a very small time interval. That's shunshin. The fact that there's smoke around him isn't relevant, it still serves its purpose which is to escape Sasuke's field of vision.
Lawd the speed of amaterasu is always being underrated there's is no way your sensing then performing jutsu the requires handsigns before something
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fast hits you susanoo arrows which are not faster then amaterasu was able to stop danzo mid handsign yet amaterasu does not roast jiraiya before he performs a jutsu please also jiraiya would stick out like a sore thumb he has to talking frogs on his shoulders.
Addressed. Amaterasu's prep is long enough to where Nagato could give a dialogue, Bee threw swords, Nagato deflects with Shinra Tensei, and gives more dialogue. That's enough time for Jiraiya to make a single simple hand seal for a clone.
Nope he's already 1 shotted before then but ill play along. 1 Jiraiya is not making that many clones he's not kakashi couldnt naruto only make 3 clones while in sm and Hashirama could not make no sm clones at all in his edo form? so you expect to believe jiraiya can make sm clones to confuse sasuke? Child bye (but again ill play along) also with that many clones his offensive power which is not even capable of destroying ribcage susanoo is split to pieces Sasuke rushes him with his ribcage susanoo while destroying his clone with susanoo sword jiraiya who has ma & pa on his shoulders is easy to spot then is tooken out with by being smashed with a susanoo hand or chopped apart.
1. Jiraiya > Kakashi in chakra reserves. And it's not even close.
2. Jiraiya's already made a clone in Sage Mode (
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) and it still had enough power to use toad flatness technique and a katon.
3. He'd only use a large number of clones to counter Susanoo arrows, since a single clone protects against Amaterasu. So if Sasuke stops using Susanoo arrows and charges in with a ribcage Jiraiya disperses all those clones and the chakra returns to him.
4. Transformation jutsu on his clones means they all have Ma and Pa on their shoulders.
but i see again once amaterasu speed is underrated its take awhile for the dust cloud to completely cover someone (Assuming she gets it off because amaterasu could fry all three of them at once similar to what itachi did to those 3 headed dodgs)
Uh what? Dust cloud was big enough to cover a boss summon in an instant, covering a human sized target is done much faster, before Sasuke even executes Amaterasu.
so he atleast gets one with amaterasu that dust cloud is not that big rapid fire susanoo arrows in bound to hit one of them or large castings of amaterasu
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smokes them out or even traping them by casting amaterasu around the smoke screen but if Sasuke really feels jiraiya is a dangerous he summons his hawk in prep kirin thens its over like that.
Addressed this, Sasuke's not hitting any of them with Amaterasu before Shima can use or dust cloud, or Jiraiya exits Sasuke's line of sight. Spamming Amaterasu and Susanoo arrows at that dust cloud is a terrible strategy for Sasuke since it's too large and it accomplishes nothing.
The going over the side part works. The pillar all depends on where he starts.
This would make sense...except there's
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when clones are formed or a transformation jutsu is made or undone. Jiraiya would be
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on them to make it appear like there was Ma and Pa on each clone's shoulders. So your red cup comparison doesn't work when there's also a ton of smoke in the mix.
Doesn't matter. Jiraiya isn't physically fast enough to avoid the arrow, that's why he'd attempt something like this. Once Sasuke has a lock on the real Jiraiya's position, he can turn into whatever he wants and cover his position with smoke, but it's not going to change the fact that Sasuke knows where his position is. All he has to do is fire right there and Jiraiya is hit.
Jiraiya can still counter it with Chou Oodama Rasengan to change the arrow's trajectory if Danzo's mokuton tree could do that. Rasengan is violently rotating chakra spinning quickly, so it would deflect the arrow or at the very least change its trajectory. Either way, Jiraiya remains unharmed.
That's not how Danzo redirected it. He released the Mokuton, which shifted his position causing it to get hit and not himself. Rasengan doesn't work the same way at all. If Jiraiya uses Rasengan on an arrow, Sasuke just strings a second one right behind it and then kills him.
Doesn't matter. Jiraiya isn't physically fast enough to avoid the arrow, that's why he'd attempt something like this. Once Sasuke has a lock on the real Jiraiya's position, he can turn into whatever he wants and cover his position with smoke, but it's not going to change the fact that Sasuke knows where his position is. All he has to do is fire right there and Jiraiya is hit.
Jiraiya doesn't have to wait until Sasuke strings his arrow and gets a lock on Jiraiya's position before making clones. He can do it before Sasuke strings the arrow, when the arrow appears in Susanoo's other hand. That way Sasuke doesn't get a lock on Jiraiya's position before that happens.
That's not how Danzo redirected it. He released the Mokuton, which shifted his position causing it to get hit and not himself. Rasengan doesn't work the same way at all. If Jiraiya uses Rasengan on an arrow, Sasuke just strings a second one right behind it and then kills him.
COR would destroy one Susanoo arrow on contact and it's explosion would blast Jiraiya backwards to shift his position which succesfully redirects the second arrow the same way Danzo did. Jiraiya can also use Yomi Numa to force Sasuke on to the defensive, and look down at the ground in order to dry up the swamp with Amaterasu...which breaks his line of sight with Jiraiya, therefore he loses his lock on Jiraiya's position giving Ma time to use her dust cloud.
Jiraiya doesn't have to wait until Sasuke strings his arrow and gets a lock on Jiraiya's position before making clones. He can do it before Sasuke strings the arrow, when the arrow appears in Susanoo's other hand. That way Sasuke doesn't get a lock on Jiraiya's position before that happens.
Then you have a point with this strategy. So if Jiraiya makes that many clones to escape a Susanoo Arrow, all Sasuke has to do is mow them down with Susanoo. If he uses that many, he'd have split his chakra so much that he won't be able to do anything significant to Sasuke, and once all those clones are destroyed, all that chakra is wasted. So Jiraiya is forced to cancel his clone jutsu and the dust cloud settles. When that happens, Sasuke ends him w/ Susanoo Arrow or Amaterasu.
COR would destroy one Susanoo arrow on contact and it's explosion would blast Jiraiya backwards to shift his position which succesfully redirects the second arrow the same way Danzo did. Jiraiya can also use Yomi Numa to force Sasuke on to the defensive, and look down at the ground in order to dry up the swamp with Amaterasu...which breaks his line of sight with Jiraiya, therefore he loses his lock on Jiraiya's position giving Ma time to use her dust cloud.
Why would COR blast Jiraiya backwards? That's never happened to any Rasengan user no matter the size of their attack. The only time it happened was when Obito blocked the Bijuu Sized Rasengan. If the force was turned against him then yeah, it'd blast him backwards. Other than that, the only thing that gets destroyed or pushed away is the Susanoo Arrow. Then there's the fact that if Jiraiya does get blasted backwards, he'll hit the ground and in the time he's recoiling from the attack, Sasuke fires another arrow at him and kills him.
If Jiraiya uses Yomi Numa, then Sasuke is left with 2 choices. Focus on him, and take him out...or counter the swamp. He can just take out Jiraiya and then escape from the swamp, which can be done via Raiton or Amaterasu as you said.
Then you have a point with this strategy. So if Jiraiya makes that many clones to escape a Susanoo Arrow, all Sasuke has to do is mow them down with Susanoo. If he uses that many, he'd have split his chakra so much that he won't be able to do anything significant to Sasuke, and once all those clones are destroyed, all that chakra is wasted. So Jiraiya is forced to cancel his clone jutsu and the dust cloud settles. When that happens, Sasuke ends him w/ Susanoo Arrow or Amaterasu.
K but Sasuke isn't one shotting w/ Susanoo arrows or Amaterasu which you claimed in your initial post which is what I was countering.
Even if he uses that many clones Jiraiya can still use his Frog Call + Yomi Numa combo to paralyze Sasuke and sink him into the swamp. Sasuke isn't reacting to Yomi Numa if Jiraiya is in the dust cloud when he uses his hand seal. When he's paralyzed he can't turn his head to look down at his feet to use Amaterasu on the swamp and if he uses Amaterasu when he's sunk deep enough to where he's eye level with the ground it's already too late since he'd just end up burning himself. Anyway in a worst case scenario Shima can summon her toad army, which in addition to strategically used Yomi Numas and clone feints can delay Sasuke long enough for them to prep Frog Song and kill Sasuke after he gets put in genjutsu.
Why would COR blast Jiraiya backwards? That's never happened to any Rasengan user no matter the size of their attack. The only time it happened was when Obito blocked the Bijuu Sized Rasengan. If the force was turned against him then yeah, it'd blast him backwards. Other than that, the only thing that gets destroyed or pushed away is the Susanoo Arrow. Then there's the fact that if Jiraiya does get blasted backwards, he'll hit the ground and in the time he's recoiling from the attack, Sasuke fires another arrow at him and kills him.
If Jiraiya uses Yomi Numa, then Sasuke is left with 2 choices. Focus on him, and take him out...or counter the swamp. He can just take out Jiraiya and then escape from the swamp, which can be done via Raiton or Amaterasu as you said.
Rasengan/Chidori clash sends both Naruto and Sasuke flying backwards (
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). So a clash of Susanoo arrow/COR should have the same result. When Jiraiya gets blasted backwards Ma spits out dust cloud and hides their location then Jiraiya can begin his offensive.
Nevermind Sasuke can counter the swamp with Chidori Nagashi even if he's paralyzed because he doesn't need to move. If Ma and Pa prep Frog Song that probably leaves Jiraiya vulnerable since he no longer has dust cloud or frog call on his side. And Sasuke could just spam Amaterasu all over the battlefield, plus there'd be a lot of heat released into the sky from Sasuke's and Jiraiya's katons. Jiraiya can't counter Kirin either.
Nevermind Sasuke can counter the swamp with Chidori Nagashi even if he's paralyzed because he doesn't need to move. If Ma and Pa prep Frog Song that probably leaves Jiraiya vulnerable since he no longer has dust cloud or frog call on his side. And Sasuke could just spam Amaterasu all over the battlefield, plus there'd be a lot of heat released into the sky from Sasuke's and Jiraiya's katons. Jiraiya can't counter Kirin either.
Sasuke stomps with superior speed plus Sharingan precognition to land an unblockable Chidori, or Amaterasu and Enton spam, or Susanoo arrow which Jiraiya can't even react to probably.
