Did you just say that..... wood style would put an end to Naruto, when even Base Rikudo SM naruto(without the cloak) effortlessly carved up the god tree into pieces? Your other arguments to prove that Madara is stronger are not good anyway, since Naruto and Sasuke have better DC feats than Madara. The combined impact of Indra's arrow and Naruto's 2 FRS is that of several countries, since Kakashi felt the impact, despite the epicentre of the blast radius being hundreds of feet above the ground. Even if you cut that in half to account for each individual attack, it's still above the Juubi's TBB. The only reason Madara can beat them, is because both seals are needed to seal him away, which neither Naruto nor Sasuke have.
Did you just say that..... wood style would put an end to Naruto, when even Base Rikudo SM naruto(without the cloak) effortlessly carved up the god tree into pieces? Your other arguments to prove that Madara is stronger are not good anyway, since Naruto and Sasuke have better DC feats than Madara. The combined impact of Indra's arrow and Naruto's 2 FRS is that of several countries, since Kakashi felt the impact, despite the epicentre of the blast radius being hundreds of feet above the ground. Even if you cut that in half to account for each individual attack, it's still above the Juubi's TBB. The only reason Madara can beat them, is because both seals are needed to seal him away, which neither Naruto nor Sasuke have.
I will actually make a decent Argument on why Madara beats both Naruto and Sasuke individually
Naruto People forget that Ashura Avatar requires tons of Natural energy which Naruto needs tons of time to gather all that Natural energy it's not gonna happen when Madara will be able to sense Naruto gathering it and put a stop to it.
Kurama Avatar would be put down by PS which would theoretically be stronger than Kurama Avatar due to the fact that
Six Paths Senjutsu + Rikudo Chakra>Six Paths Senjutsu.
Clones are useless when Madara can counter them with Mokuton and Limbo clones plus Madara can tell which one's the Original so he'll just go after the original.
Chibaku Tensei and Limbo clones keep Naruto busy just like in Cannon and in that time Madara cast IT to get rid of Naruto. If Naruto decides to Kyuubi Avatar to blow up the Chibaku Tensei. Madara just makes them Bigger. Madara can regnerate from all of Naruto's attacks within seconds
Sasuke There are multiple ways that Madara can avoid being blitzed by Amenotejikara
1. Put up ribcage Susano'o
2. He'll have a fresh set of Truth Seeking balls in which he can create a shield which would act as a meat shield
3. Switch with a Limbo
Sasuke's Rinnegan techniques aren't gonna do him much good when Madara's Rinnegan techniques are on a way higher scale than Sasuke's. Plus Sasuke can't deal with Limbo's as easily as Naruto in which he can't seal them away. People forget that Sasuke's eye has a cool down in which he's powerless for that set time if he overuses it.
Once Sasuke decides to use his Bijuu Perfect Susano'o, Madara's not out of options.
Indra's Arrow can be countered by a High Powered ST which would stop Indra's arrow dead in it's tracks or he can take the hit and regenerate from it and Sasuke wastes most of his Chakra and Sasuke can't seal him away because he lacks the Moon and Sun Seals.
Hypothetically speaking Mokuton clones should be able to use PS which would keep Sasuke busy enough for Madara to prep a
Quad Juubi TBB to eradicate Sasuke's Bijuu PS.
1. Yes and no. Yes, it requires a crap ton of natural energy, but it doesn't take a long time to gather. In fact, it probably doesn't even take a minute, all the while, Naruto's more than capable of simultaneously fighting.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Not exactly a long period of time. It was also not sensed by Sasuke until the natural energy actually transfered.
2. You'd think so, but there's one problem with this. Madara doesn't have Rikkudo chakra outside of the juubi. Now, he has juubi-enhanced rinnegan abilities, which would put him somewhat above Sasuke in susanoo usage(assuming he has it). You see, the rinnegan never gives Rikkudo chakra. It's a separate ability (Kakashi has the same Rikkudo chakra, no rinnegan).
Even through that, A. This only makes Madara's PS superior physically, as it would be with BSM Naruto VS Edo Madara, but Edo Madara isn't stronger than BSM Naruto. He would not be able to deal with the likes of Naruto's RSM TBBs. Even then, there's shadow clones, enabling for higher output. With Ashura Avatar, he'd utterly destroy PS with physical strength alone.
3. Don't see how wood style's a threat when Naruto bisected the holy tree, which is clearly the source of wood style. Any attempts of wood style would be destroyed with ease. Limbos, at best, equalize the fight. This is assuming Madara has PS, and can use it through multiple bodies. Even so, Madara has the mentality that divide chakra=weakness. He wouldn't to a clone spam unless playing around. PS may require his full chakra to use effectively.
4. You're talking about a Naruto far less capable than VOTE 2 Naruto. In said scenario, Naruto's clones are more than capable of keeping the Limbos busy (assuming he hasn't even activated Ashura Avatar at this point, which would make it easy to plow through). Naruto's physical attributes match Sasuke's PS. He could literally swat CT away and spam TBBs to clear the way. There's nothing suggesting that Madara was holding back with his CTs. Sure, he might be able to, instead of dividing the cores, make a big one, but then he can't make multiple ones. Madara's regen isn't as quick as you think. Even with the holy tree, it took a significant amount of time to regenerate his lower half.
Sasuke
1. Susanoo ribcage might be able to be swapped. Relying on TSBs s a mistake. Having TSBs on his back in mid-range is like Madara saying "blitz me!"
You must be registered for see images
Any defense can become a target for Sasuke's swap ability.
Limbos are possible, but that's almost certainly not going to help him with an instant attack, only a drawn-out one. It didn't exactly enable him to react to Sasuke's chidori before.
You must be registered for see images
He reacted to the sealing, not chidori.
2. True and false at the same time. Yes, Sasuke's rinnegan techniques are inferior. However, Limbo isn't so much a problem when you consider that they can be damaged. Therefore, they themselves would take time to regenerate.
3. Doubtful. A. I highly doubt ST is capable of such destructive power. CT is always in a higher scale than ST. That doesn't bode well with ST's force. It should be vastly inferior to Indra's arrow. I don't think there's any evidence that Sasuke can't use Indra's arrow multiple times. If not, then that means he's using the majority of the biju's chakra all at once. Think about that for a moment. That level of energy all at once is equivalent of unleashing most of the chakra within Madara's own body in an instant. If such a thing is true, then Madara gets overwhelmed no question.
Only 2 options to view Indra's arrow with.
A. It's a one-use chakra attack, in which case, it probably has the most amount of chakra out of any attack in the manga, and can kill anything.
B. I doesn't have that power, and accordingly, Sasuke can use it over and over.
Neither options bode well for Madara.
Seals are irrelevant. If Madara's weakened, things like human path are on the table. Not to mention using preta path to drain away all of Madara's biju chakra.
4. In Madara's mind, divided chakra=less power. If such a thing is used, he'll be using vastly inferior susanoos that don't pose a threat to Sasuke (especially with biju susanoo). It's even questionable that it can destroy PS considering it failed to destroy the tree that spawned them.
That's my argument. Sorry if I can't reply much. (Calculus is a time-consuming monster)
Never said it did kid. I said that it raped Mokuryu.
Mokuton at it's strongest>>>Regular Bijuu at their strongest. RSM Naruto is Half Kurama+Half of Hagoromo's Power. That's not just Bijuu Power. So stop this "Mokuton>Bijuu" bullshit argument.
naruto charged in because he is a hardhead just like RSM naruto is. full kurama just blew up one wood dragon. thats nothing compared to wood style's full arsenal.
You've yet to mention the rest of the Mokuton that'll be used. When you do, I'll counter it. Bold is nothing but your opinion. Naruto has no reason to do something that'll lead to him getting caught when he has intel.
Once again, are you stupid? Mentally challenged? RSM Naruto is NOT BSM Naruto. RSM Naruto is FAR above. Stop with these shitty ass backwards comparisons and argumentation. BSM Naruto being defeated by something doesn't mean shit when talking about someone 4 tiers above BSM Naruto.
BM Naruto had to be hit with Limbo to prevent that. RSM Naruto already countered Limbo. Gedo gets nuked by an FRS or a BDFRS. Chains aren't even going to land since Limbo isn't going to land, like it failed to do in canon.
how will naruto weaken madara if he couldn't even hit him with the help of sasuke?
Except he can hit Madara. Databook already states that Naruto's reaction speed surpasses Madara's, and Naruto is faster by feats.
any damage done towards madara gets limbo swapped or blocked by TSB or gets instantly regenerated. theres no "weakening" madara. what would be the whole point of the sage's seal then if madara can simply get weaken and have the bijuu extracted? you dumb.
He uses Limbo to swap, Naruto seals it like he did in canon. Not to mention if he's caught in the AoE of one of Naruto's explosive attacks, swapping won't do shit to help him since he'll still be in the AoE of the attack.
Gudo Dama were getting damaged by BSM Naruto's standard Bijuu Dama. RSM Naruto's Bijuu Dama is far stronger. He wrecks it neg diff along with Madara. Instantly regenerated? Madara's regeneration has never been instant, just go see him vs. Gai. That was Madara in a weakened state.
The Sage's Seal is obviously more efficient. The Sage's seal is to seal the Juubi away for good. Extracting it isn't going to seal it away, it's only going to defeat Madara. So no, you are dumb.
and wood style can very well take out RSM naruto. Rsm naruto is till a jin and can still have his bijuu chakra absorbed which is most of his power. can still get his 9 tails extracted as easily as it was before.
Did you just say that..... wood style would put an end to Naruto, when even Base Rikudo SM naruto(without the cloak) effortlessly carved up the god tree into pieces? Your other arguments to prove that Madara is stronger are not good anyway, since Naruto and Sasuke have better DC feats than Madara. The combined impact of Indra's arrow and Naruto's 2 FRS is that of several countries, since Kakashi felt the impact, despite the epicentre of the blast radius being hundreds of feet above the ground. Even if you cut that in half to account for each individual attack, it's still above the Juubi's TBB. The only reason Madara can beat them, is because both seals are needed to seal him away, which neither Naruto nor Sasuke have.
Not sure what Sasuke's method is, but Naruto doesn't need to seal. The Bijuu chakra within him can resonate with the Bijuu chakra within Madara and once Naruto obliterates Madara, he can simply pull it out and remove the immortality.
Not sure what Sasuke's method is, but Naruto doesn't need to seal. The Bijuu chakra within him can resonate with the Bijuu chakra within Madara and once Naruto obliterates Madara, he can simply pull it out and remove the immortality.
That is very true. It's why I said outlasting/immortality is the only way Madara "can" win, since Madara can't overpower them. Yes, Naruto can win like that. Sennin of Logic(above) suggested Sasuke using the human path once Madara is severely weakened, but I'm not sure if that would woork.
That is very true. It's why I said outlasting/immortality is the only way Madara "can" win, since Madara can't overpower them. Yes, Naruto can win like that. Sennin of Logic(above) suggested Sasuke using the human path once Madara is severely weakened, but I'm not sure if that would woork.
With Sasuke it's different. Madara can't react to him at all. He'll just constantly keep getting blitzed the entire time. There's that method which is up in the air, or possibly Sasuke could use his Rikudou Chidori that they wanted to seal Madara with in the first place (notice how Naruto wasn't using his seal and only Shukaku's Jiton sealing), which would temporarily immobilize Madara (on top of Sasuke just cutting him up) and then he could focus his chakra on sealing Madara within a bigger CT. Additionally, he could add Kagutschi spikes like he did to stop the Ice world of Kaguya, but instead piercing Madara while he's split apart and then follow it with the CT.
Never said it did kid. I said that it raped Mokuryu.
Mokuton at it's strongest>>>Regular Bijuu at their strongest. RSM Naruto is Half Kurama+Half of Hagoromo's Power. That's not just Bijuu Power. So stop this "Mokuton>Bijuu" bullshit argument.
You've yet to mention the rest of the Mokuton that'll be used. When you do, I'll counter it. Bold is nothing but your opinion. Naruto has no reason to do something that'll lead to him getting caught when he has intel.
No, he didn't. He reacted to him, he just couldn't outright evade.
Lol, are you stupid? Sasuke w/ Hagoromo's power and teleportation>>>>Any Mokuton in speed. Teleportation>Mokuton in speed.
Is this some kind of fucking joke?
Chakra chains from the Gedo Mazo negged BM Naruto. The same BM Naruto that had to be knocked down with Limbo first in order to apply the chains.
Once again, are you stupid? Mentally challenged? RSM Naruto is NOT BSM Naruto. RSM Naruto is FAR above. Stop with these shitty ass backwards comparisons and argumentation. BSM Naruto being defeated by something doesn't mean shit when talking about someone 4 tiers above BSM Naruto.
BM Naruto had to be hit with Limbo to prevent that. RSM Naruto already countered Limbo. Gedo gets nuked by an FRS or a BDFRS. Chains aren't even going to land since Limbo isn't going to land, like it failed to do in canon.
Except he can hit Madara. Databook already states that Naruto's reaction speed surpasses Madara's, and Naruto is faster by feats.
He uses Limbo to swap, Naruto seals it like he did in canon. Not to mention if he's caught in the AoE of one of Naruto's explosive attacks, swapping won't do shit to help him since he'll still be in the AoE of the attack.
Gudo Dama were getting damaged by BSM Naruto's standard Bijuu Dama. RSM Naruto's Bijuu Dama is far stronger. He wrecks it neg diff along with Madara. Instantly regenerated? Madara's regeneration has never been instant, just go see him vs. Gai. That was Madara in a weakened state.
The Sage's Seal is obviously more efficient. The Sage's seal is to seal the Juubi away for good. Extracting it isn't going to seal it away, it's only going to defeat Madara. So no, you are dumb.
That is very true. It's why I said outlasting/immortality is the only way Madara "can" win, since Madara can't overpower them. Yes, Naruto can win like that. Sennin of Logic(above) suggested Sasuke using the human path once Madara is severely weakened, but I'm not sure if that would woork.
With Sasuke it's different. Madara can't react to him at all. He'll just constantly keep getting blitzed the entire time. There's that method which is up in the air, or possibly Sasuke could use his Rikudou Chidori that they wanted to seal Madara with in the first place (notice how Naruto wasn't using his seal and only Shukaku's Jiton sealing), which would temporarily immobilize Madara (on top of Sasuke just cutting him up) and then he could focus his chakra on sealing Madara within a bigger CT. Additionally, he could add Kagutschi spikes like he did to stop the Ice world of Kaguya, but instead piercing Madara while he's split apart and then follow it with the CT.
1. Yes and no. Yes, it requires a crap ton of natural energy, but it doesn't take a long time to gather. In fact, it probably doesn't even take a minute, all the while, Naruto's more than capable of simultaneously fighting.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Not exactly a long period of time. It was also not sensed by Sasuke until the natural energy actually transfered.
2. You'd think so, but there's one problem with this. Madara doesn't have Rikkudo chakra outside of the juubi. Now, he has juubi-enhanced rinnegan abilities, which would put him somewhat above Sasuke in susanoo usage(assuming he has it). You see, the rinnegan never gives Rikkudo chakra. It's a separate ability (Kakashi has the same Rikkudo chakra, no rinnegan).
Even through that, A. This only makes Madara's PS superior physically, as it would be with BSM Naruto VS Edo Madara, but Edo Madara isn't stronger than BSM Naruto. He would not be able to deal with the likes of Naruto's RSM TBBs. Even then, there's shadow clones, enabling for higher output. With Ashura Avatar, he'd utterly destroy PS with physical strength alone.
3. Don't see how wood style's a threat when Naruto bisected the holy tree, which is clearly the source of wood style. Any attempts of wood style would be destroyed with ease. Limbos, at best, equalize the fight. This is assuming Madara has PS, and can use it through multiple bodies. Even so, Madara has the mentality that divide chakra=weakness. He wouldn't to a clone spam unless playing around. PS may require his full chakra to use effectively.
4. You're talking about a Naruto far less capable than VOTE 2 Naruto. In said scenario, Naruto's clones are more than capable of keeping the Limbos busy (assuming he hasn't even activated Ashura Avatar at this point, which would make it easy to plow through). Naruto's physical attributes match Sasuke's PS. He could literally swat CT away and spam TBBs to clear the way. There's nothing suggesting that Madara was holding back with his CTs. Sure, he might be able to, instead of dividing the cores, make a big one, but then he can't make multiple ones. Madara's regen isn't as quick as you think. Even with the holy tree, it took a significant amount of time to regenerate his lower half.
Sasuke
1. Susanoo ribcage might be able to be swapped. Relying on TSBs s a mistake. Having TSBs on his back in mid-range is like Madara saying "blitz me!"
You must be registered for see images
Any defense can become a target for Sasuke's swap ability.
Limbos are possible, but that's almost certainly not going to help him with an instant attack, only a drawn-out one. It didn't exactly enable him to react to Sasuke's chidori before.
You must be registered for see images
He reacted to the sealing, not chidori.
2. True and false at the same time. Yes, Sasuke's rinnegan techniques are inferior. However, Limbo isn't so much a problem when you consider that they can be damaged. Therefore, they themselves would take time to regenerate.
3. Doubtful. A. I highly doubt ST is capable of such destructive power. CT is always in a higher scale than ST. That doesn't bode well with ST's force. It should be vastly inferior to Indra's arrow. I don't think there's any evidence that Sasuke can't use Indra's arrow multiple times. If not, then that means he's using the majority of the biju's chakra all at once. Think about that for a moment. That level of energy all at once is equivalent of unleashing most of the chakra within Madara's own body in an instant. If such a thing is true, then Madara gets overwhelmed no question.
Only 2 options to view Indra's arrow with.
A. It's a one-use chakra attack, in which case, it probably has the most amount of chakra out of any attack in the manga, and can kill anything.
B. I doesn't have that power, and accordingly, Sasuke can use it over and over.
Neither options bode well for Madara.
Seals are irrelevant. If Madara's weakened, things like human path are on the table. Not to mention using preta path to drain away all of Madara's biju chakra.
4. In Madara's mind, divided chakra=less power. If such a thing is used, he'll be using vastly inferior susanoos that don't pose a threat to Sasuke (especially with biju susanoo). It's even questionable that it can destroy PS considering it failed to destroy the tree that spawned them.
That's my argument. Sorry if I can't reply much. (Calculus is a time-consuming monster)
madara will not be weaken though. the guy tanked having half his body missing. being cut in half. the only thing that affects madara is the seal. which he limbo swap. he is unbeatable.
Do you know what "tanking" means? Tanking means surviving or taking an attack with little damage. Madara is NOT tanking the 2 NE enhanced FRS which stalemated Indra's arrow by feats, when a lava rasenshuriken from base SM naruto, severely damaged his pre shinju form.
Juubi TBB isnt deflecting Indra's arrow. Oh, and you mean "regenerated" from being cut in half? Tanking is not equivalent to regeneration. The more damage the attack does to Madara, the longer it takes for him to regenerate, and the more chakra he uses up, which leaves him open to be finished off by Naruto/Sasuke
With Sasuke it's different. Madara can't react to him at all. He'll just constantly keep getting blitzed the entire time. There's that method which is up in the air, or possibly Sasuke could use his Rikudou Chidori that they wanted to seal Madara with in the first place (notice how Naruto wasn't using his seal and only Shukaku's Jiton sealing), which would temporarily immobilize Madara (on top of Sasuke just cutting him up) and then he could focus his chakra on sealing Madara within a bigger CT. Additionally, he could add Kagutschi spikes like he did to stop the Ice world of Kaguya, but instead piercing Madara while he's split apart and then follow it with the CT.
madara will not be weaken though. the guy tanked having half his body missing. being cut in half. the only thing that affects madara is the seal. which he limbo swap. he is unbeatable.
He didn't "tank" having half his body missing, he surivived and regenerated from having half his body missing. Naruto or Sasuke put Madara on the verge of death,and while he's regenerating and is weakened, they seal him away through various means.
Your Mokuton arguments are completely irrelevant. Naruto casually destroyed the God Tree, which is the most powerful
kind of mokuton effortlessly when he was aiming for Madara. Any mokuton that Madara uses besides that is irrelevant.
Dropping the Juubi bomb onto Naruto takes time. Remember when Obito tried spamming several Juubidamas? Took forever.
Even if he takes dramatically less time, a juubidama takes more time to form than any of Naruto's Rasenshuriken techniques
that would stop a tree growing the attack. In taijutsu, Naruto has the edge because he has the greater senjutsu and his clones
counter limbo just fine.
3-eyed Madara would certainly take down Naruto with IT and in a 1 on 1 fight, I agree that Madara would take down Naruto
even without IT. But he takes it with quite some difficulty. Between mid-high. And Naruto and Sasuke together would definitely
win. Stop overrating this guy.
lets say this is them at their strongest, so they have all their gudo dama and madara has his gudou dama and both rennigan. to me they def beat him 2v1 mid diff. 1v1 i think naruto can win, but i don't think sasuke could. remember, sasuke benefited in the naruto fight because naruto had exhausted most of his chakra against madara/kaguya and sasuke had the bijuu chakra to then get a boost from. with that said, i'll make an argument for why naruto could win.
first off naruto's version of senjutsu of the six paths surpasses that of madara's. not only is that backed up by the manga, but the databook confirms this as well. homestly the only think i could conceivably see madara doing that would be of any effect on naruto would be infinite tsukiyomi. we are not sure that madara can even use his susano while he is the jin of the juubi because we know that some things can be restricted while being the juubi jin. even still we know that it can be overcome by naruto as it would basically be something like sasuke's version when he put all the bijuu chakra into it. lets not forget that naruto was able to go 1v1 against kaguya for a time. lets be clear, kaguya far outclasses madara. as far as madara being immortal, that may or may not be actually true and actually doesn't make sense. technically all naruto would need to do was extract the bijuu from madara. obito was able to do it in a very weakened state, naruto should have a much easier time and at the same time be powering himself up. not to mention that naruto has the ability to gather tons of natural energy, which he is able to do in a very short time. if he does this with a full tank ofhis chakra instead of just a lilttle bit, he would far outclass jj madara.
