[VS] Minato VS Tobirama
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ARGUS
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Minato wins this
--With Edo Tensei restricted this is a battle of speed, and with Minatos use of FTG being more enhanced thanks to the marked kunai,,as well as his superior shunshin would allow him to land a mark before tobirama and therefore win
--The use of summons such as gamabunta can also enable minato to win,
--With Edo Tensei restricted this is a battle of speed, and with Minatos use of FTG being more enhanced thanks to the marked kunai,,as well as his superior shunshin would allow him to land a mark before tobirama and therefore win
--The use of summons such as gamabunta can also enable minato to win,
DemonicAvenger
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This comes down to a battle of reactions and Shunshin, as well as skill with Hiriashin. Which Minato has differing levels of advantage over Tobirama in both.
Minato takes it High Diff.
Benjamin King
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DemonicAvenger
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All the times Tobirama tagged him was with a distraction. The same couldn't be said for Minato since he chose a rush-down approach.
Ababeel
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Getting his arm cut off is better than getting half of his body cut off from inferior reincarnation of obito.
OT: Minato wins low-mid difficult at most.
Benjamin King
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He wouldn't have been able to create distraction if he was unable to tag him. So, how does that disprove his reaction time feat? He intended to use his ''
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'', while Obito was weakened..Same old Minato fan-base argument. Never cease to gross me.
King Kendrick
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Minato takes this , it comes down to whos faster , tobirama already said minato is .
Ababeel
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Minato is superior to Tobirama with his fan-base accepted it or not, that how they are presented in the manga, period.
I have went through this over and over again... U_U
Part 1:
Minato & Tobirama.
In Term of Jutsu.
Both of these ninja are relying heavily on their teleporting jutsus, FTG. However, Minato is greater than Tobirama with the teleporting jutsus as Tobirama admitted in two places, [
[
Not only that, but Tobirama even praised Minato for being fast at striking as well [
As for defensive cases, Minato's greatest defensive moves are his S/T barrier which can deal with moves as strong and the TBB [
About shunshin, Minato still has some of the best feats in the manga; [
Either way, Kishi focused on Minato's speed a lot showing him surpassing those with the greatest speed in a lot of cases. Like he did with Obito's Kamui [
That's in terms of their teleportation jutsus (other than the Water Wall) which they rely on heavily. Both of them are sensor type ninja, they can sense the chakra by their fingers or not. Minato can sense with even one finger [
As for offensive moves, Tobirama also has his Water Severing Wave which was able to cut throw some of the Tree's branches [
Another jutsu that Tobirama has is his Water Dragon [
One of Tobirama's most powerful jutsu is Edo Tensei. However, he does not really have feats with it, and we have no idea what kind of people that he can summon. However, we know that by Kabuto's statement even Oro's part 1 ET was greater than that of Tobirama's [
Now, Minato also has a summoning jutsu, but instead of summoning the dead, he summons the frogs. Unlike Tobirama's case we actually know the frogs and we know their jutsus.
As Tobirama's feats and jutsu stop as far as this. Minato has shown a great mastery over the sealing jutsu that he can even do some with one hand [
Minato also has
Chakra Transfer Technique
Sage Mode
Part 2:
The Chakra.
Some people may argue that Tobirama has more chakra than Minato, and that is based heavily on Obito's statement about Asura and what he inherited from his father [
On the other hand, we know for sure that Minato had a massive amount of chakra since he has a perfect SM, which required such a huge chakra [
In addition to that, some people might use the argument that Tobirama made the wall crack, but how does that prove that he has more chakra than Minato? have not Hiruzen and Oro done the same thing during their fight? But still they did not get all that much chakra, Hiruzen has only 3 in the Databook, so that feat does not really prove anything at all.
Also, stating that Minato got tired after teleporting Kurama means he does not have a great amount of chakra, or Tobirama has more because he teleported both Kuramas. That is cool and all, except, Minato was alive back then, and he dealt with Kushina's seals for hours and then fought Obito and all the other things. HOWEVER, Tobirama was only an ET, and he got his chakra restored every time he gets drained, so it's just natural that he won't worry about that stuff. Had he been alive, he wouldn't have been able to continue fighting after the 4 suns barrier since he was already exhausted before the fight even started[
I also find the fact that Tobirama is not a SM user like his brother is proof that he does not have enough chakra to learn it.
In Term of Battles.
We either have some scan of their battles, or not even completed fights. Therefore, I will rely on both the scans we have about the fight, and the statements that were made for the given fights.
First of all, one of the fights we know that Tobirama fought in is the battle when fought Kin & Gin. One of the fights he fought with them was a surprise attack against him and the 2nd Raikage with him, as a result of this fight Tobirama almost got killed by them [
While also we know that Kin & Gin have Kurama's chakra within them, but we know that Kinkaku does not use it unless someone has taken Ginkaku out according to Kakuzu [
On the other hand, Minato fought against A & B several times, a team which was stated to be superior and is the strongest team in Kumo [
Other battle is almost one scan, which is Tobirama's battle against Izuna [
Izuna in that scan was not even using his MS, so I think it's safe to assume that Tobirama had the edge because Izuna's chakra became so low that he couldn't keep his sharingan activated anymore. On top of that we do not even know
how powerful Izuna was to begin with. It's also worth to mention that the translation that some of Tobirama's fans use to prove Izuna's power is actually wrong, Itachi (whose knowledge in that regard was proven to be wrong) did not say that Izuna was as powerful as Madara, but rather they were training together [
Minato on the other hand fought against Obito who was trained by Madara as well. Not only that but he also has Hashi's cells and he was controlling Kurama, who was attacking the village. On top of that he attacked Minato off guard, yet he still got his ass handed to him. Even though he has a superior jutsu to both Minato and Tobirama's s/t jutsus.
So, once again Minato fought superior foes to that of Tobirama.
We also know that ET Tobirama with his brother and Oro fought against old Hiruzen. In which he also ended up losing, it is true that he was not at his full power, but so was Hiruzen and even if we ignored that it's still one of his battles.
On the other hand Minato was fighting in the 3rd war and pretty much changing the entire result from Konoha losing the war to Konoha winning the war, and it was even stated that he ended his battles in a blink of an eye. As we know that in the front line, there were 1000 shinobi as Minato stated [
part 3:
The 4th World War.
The only time we got to see those two in a longer time that how we saw them before was in the 4th War, and I have covered different areas about them in the other sections. This section will mainly be a comparison between the two and how Kishi portrayed them in almost the same situation. First of all, the first comparison Kishi made between them was their speed as Minato was the first Hokage to arrived [
Part 4:
In Term of Intelligence.
Both Hokages are considered to be intelligent. Firstly, Minato is said to be a genius that appears once in a while [
In terms of analysing the foe's jutsu, Minato has shown some of the best feats as well. First of all, he analysed Kakashi's chidori from the first time he saw it [
In term of jutsus he created the Rasengan, Rasen-Flash Super-Circle Dance Howl Stage Three, S/T barrier, and improved the FTG to a higher degree than Tobirama. Also, according to the DT3 he was creating the jutsu after the other [
Tobirama's feats are that he thought of building a lot of constructions for Konoha [
In Term of Hype.
Tobirama some hype going for him.
Tobirama was hyped by the ANBU to be the ultimate shinobi [
As for Minato;
He was one of the finest ninja Konoha has ever produced , even the villagers wished that he was alive to deal with the threat [
and those are the areas that I can cover about those 2 Hokages from the information I have. Minato, Konoha's Yellow flash [
Zetsu [
Minato & Tobirama.
In Term of Jutsu.
Both of these ninja are relying heavily on their teleporting jutsus, FTG. However, Minato is greater than Tobirama with the teleporting jutsus as Tobirama admitted in two places, [
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][
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], or how the Anime clearfield it even further as Tobirama teleported first [
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], yet Minato arrived first [
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]. Regardless, some people may argue 2 things. The first is that FTG cannot be slower since it's a teleporting jutsu. However, that was proven wrong by Tobirama himself [
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]. The other thing is that Tobirama said "shunshin" not "FTG". However, FTG was called as a shunshin like 12 times, that cannot be a coincidence, or can it be? [
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][
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][
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][
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][
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][
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][
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][
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][
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][
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][
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][
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]Not only that, but Tobirama even praised Minato for being fast at striking as well [
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]. While Tobirama showed the usage of 1 Kunai against Madara, Minato uses a lot of them during the battle, examples of that would be his fight against A & B or his fight in the 3rd War [
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][
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]. Based on that Minato is as proved by Tobirama himself is indeed better, especially as Minato was praised to be the fastest ever [
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], while Tobirama was praised to be the the fastest during his era [
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]. Thus, Minato's teleporting jutsus that he shared with Tobirama give him the edge because of his mastery over them like FTG, and Goshun Mawashi. I may argue that Minato's slashes with the Kunai are also better than that of Tobirama, since when Minato attacks there is no window to dodge as with Tobirama, examples of that are [
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][
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][
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]. Unlike Tobirama, [
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][
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]. In addition to that, Minato's Kunai are heavier [
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] and also have a great deal of power [
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].As for defensive cases, Minato's greatest defensive moves are his S/T barrier which can deal with moves as strong and the TBB [
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][
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][
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]. On the other hand, Tobirama's move is his Water Wall, which has the feat of protecting him from Hiruzen's Fire Dragon [
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].About shunshin, Minato still has some of the best feats in the manga; [
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][
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][
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][
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][
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][
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]. Crossing Konoha in no time, stopping Kakashi before he could even move his hand, and separating the Kunai before the Hokages even arrive. On the other hand, Tobirama has none, but rather, he was shown to be actually slower than Hiruzen [
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] who's a 3 out 5 in terms of speed. Either way, Kishi focused on Minato's speed a lot showing him surpassing those with the greatest speed in a lot of cases. Like he did with Obito's Kamui [
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], A's top speed [
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], Tobirama's speed, [
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], Kakashi's Kamui's speed [
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], and 8th Gate Gai's speed [
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]. That's in terms of their teleportation jutsus (other than the Water Wall) which they rely on heavily. Both of them are sensor type ninja, they can sense the chakra by their fingers or not. Minato can sense with even one finger [
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][
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], unlike Tobirama who uses two fingers for that [
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]. Both have clones, and can use the 4 suns barrier, so they are more or less even in this regard. However, Minato can easily break this when he use his SM to improve all of his base stats and make his sensing, chakra, and other things more powerful, although that is only for a short time [
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]. In addition to that those feats alongside the previous ones are more than half of Tobirama's arsenal. As for offensive moves, Tobirama also has his Water Severing Wave which was able to cut throw some of the Tree's branches [
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]. However, we saw a lot of things can cut through them as well [
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][
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][
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][
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][
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], so it does not really prove how powerful this jutsu is, not to mention Minato was able to cut the branches without even using his arms [
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]. In addition to that, Minato also has his Rasengan that was able to damage Obito heavily despite Obito having Hashirama's cells, but he lost his arm and the earth surface underneath him was completely destroyed [
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]. So, by feats, the Rasengan has a greater offensive power than Tobirama's jutsu. Another jutsu that Tobirama has is his Water Dragon [
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]. But even that falls short against Minato's Food Cart Destroyer jutsu that was able to put even Kurama down for a while [
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][
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]. One of Tobirama's most powerful jutsu is Edo Tensei. However, he does not really have feats with it, and we have no idea what kind of people that he can summon. However, we know that by Kabuto's statement even Oro's part 1 ET was greater than that of Tobirama's [
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][
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][
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], so I would assume that Tobirama's ET was not meant for the power of the summoned people, but rather for his strongest offensive move which is Mutually Multiplying Explosive Tags, which was implied by Madara as well [
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]. In addition to that, we know that the ETs have a contract from Madara's statement [
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]. And we know that Minato can break the contract by his contract seal [
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]. So, really it won't be much of use for Tobirama either. Now, Minato also has a summoning jutsu, but instead of summoning the dead, he summons the frogs. Unlike Tobirama's case we actually know the frogs and we know their jutsus.
As Tobirama's feats and jutsu stop as far as this. Minato has shown a great mastery over the sealing jutsu that he can even do some with one hand [
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], his seals are so strong that B admitted that it's stronger than his own [
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], and A stated that they are special seals as well [
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], and we know that Kushina taught him a lot of sealing jutsu [
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]. Some of those sealing jutsu that we know of are
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,
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Minato also has
Chakra Transfer Technique
Sage Mode
Part 2:
The Chakra.
Some people may argue that Tobirama has more chakra than Minato, and that is based heavily on Obito's statement about Asura and what he inherited from his father [
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]. But, is that true? No, probably not. The first thing, Obito according to that translation did not even mention the chakra to begin with to say that Tobirama must have more than Minato based on his lineage, but only was it proven later on that just because you're related to a person, it does not necessarily mean that you get everything automatically, and that happened to Asura himself [
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][
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], what are the odds that it did not happen to Tobirama who came several hundreds of years after him? On the other hand, we know for sure that Minato had a massive amount of chakra since he has a perfect SM, which required such a huge chakra [
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]. In addition to that, some people might use the argument that Tobirama made the wall crack, but how does that prove that he has more chakra than Minato? have not Hiruzen and Oro done the same thing during their fight? But still they did not get all that much chakra, Hiruzen has only 3 in the Databook, so that feat does not really prove anything at all.
Also, stating that Minato got tired after teleporting Kurama means he does not have a great amount of chakra, or Tobirama has more because he teleported both Kuramas. That is cool and all, except, Minato was alive back then, and he dealt with Kushina's seals for hours and then fought Obito and all the other things. HOWEVER, Tobirama was only an ET, and he got his chakra restored every time he gets drained, so it's just natural that he won't worry about that stuff. Had he been alive, he wouldn't have been able to continue fighting after the 4 suns barrier since he was already exhausted before the fight even started[
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]. So, I don't think it's fair to compare the 2 situations! I also find the fact that Tobirama is not a SM user like his brother is proof that he does not have enough chakra to learn it.
In Term of Battles.
We either have some scan of their battles, or not even completed fights. Therefore, I will rely on both the scans we have about the fight, and the statements that were made for the given fights.
First of all, one of the fights we know that Tobirama fought in is the battle when fought Kin & Gin. One of the fights he fought with them was a surprise attack against him and the 2nd Raikage with him, as a result of this fight Tobirama almost got killed by them [
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][
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]. In the other fight against Kinkaku Unit which has 20 shinobi, it's when they finally were able to kill him. What we know about that from the scans we have is the fact that Tobirama and his 6 students thought that fighting against Kinkaku and his team it just too much for them [
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]. He ended up getting defeated by them [
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][
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].While also we know that Kin & Gin have Kurama's chakra within them, but we know that Kinkaku does not use it unless someone has taken Ginkaku out according to Kakuzu [
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]On the other hand, Minato fought against A & B several times, a team which was stated to be superior and is the strongest team in Kumo [
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]. ِAlthough we only have some scans of their fight and the rest remains unseen, we know that Minato is superior to them from their own mouths [
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][
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]. Current B, was trembling just because Naruto's mentioned his father's name, he wouldn't tremble if Minato was inferior or equal to him. Not to mention he was not fighting Minato alone, but with A alongside him, so that's enough to be sure that he alone can't deal with Minato, otherwise he would destroy Minato with A! Anyway, A also admitted inferiority to Minato [
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]. So, A believes that there is no man who can surpass Minato, which is a straightforward statement that Minato is the superior one, not only superior to both A & B, but anyone else according to A (who by the way know about Kin, Gin, Tobirama, his father...etc)Other battle is almost one scan, which is Tobirama's battle against Izuna [
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].Izuna in that scan was not even using his MS, so I think it's safe to assume that Tobirama had the edge because Izuna's chakra became so low that he couldn't keep his sharingan activated anymore. On top of that we do not even know
how powerful Izuna was to begin with. It's also worth to mention that the translation that some of Tobirama's fans use to prove Izuna's power is actually wrong, Itachi (whose knowledge in that regard was proven to be wrong) did not say that Izuna was as powerful as Madara, but rather they were training together [
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], and that's all. Izuna in the flashback was even shocked that there was someone who's stronger than his brother! Minato on the other hand fought against Obito who was trained by Madara as well. Not only that but he also has Hashi's cells and he was controlling Kurama, who was attacking the village. On top of that he attacked Minato off guard, yet he still got his ass handed to him. Even though he has a superior jutsu to both Minato and Tobirama's s/t jutsus.
So, once again Minato fought superior foes to that of Tobirama.
We also know that ET Tobirama with his brother and Oro fought against old Hiruzen. In which he also ended up losing, it is true that he was not at his full power, but so was Hiruzen and even if we ignored that it's still one of his battles.
On the other hand Minato was fighting in the 3rd war and pretty much changing the entire result from Konoha losing the war to Konoha winning the war, and it was even stated that he ended his battles in a blink of an eye. As we know that in the front line, there were 1000 shinobi as Minato stated [
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] and he was sent there as well as defeating them. Throughout the War he also was defeating those ninja from Iwa [
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][
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][
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][
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][
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] Ending the War [
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].part 3:
The 4th World War.
The only time we got to see those two in a longer time that how we saw them before was in the 4th War, and I have covered different areas about them in the other sections. This section will mainly be a comparison between the two and how Kishi portrayed them in almost the same situation. First of all, the first comparison Kishi made between them was their speed as Minato was the first Hokage to arrived [
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], and after a while of his arrival Tobirama arrived acknowledging Minato's superiority over him [
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]. The second one was against Obito, at first Tobirama faced mindless obito who was not in control of his power, and even though he succeeded to put some explosion tags on him and FTG mark, but that cost him half of his body [
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], which is in a normal cased he would have be killed in that second. On the other hand, Kishi putted Minato against a superior obito, who actually can think and control his power, yet Minato suffered much less damage, which is only his 1 arm [
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]. The third one we have is in term of teleporting other people. Minato was able to teleport an entire army out [
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], on the other hand, Tobirama was shown to only teleporting 2 [
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] which is after acknowledging that he can't accomplish the same feat [
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]. Kishi, again showed Minato dealing with stronger, and more attacks than Tobirama, as Tobirama dealt with only 1 Gedu-dama [
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], he had armless Minato dealing with 5 instead [
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]. And finally, kishi putted Tobirama against pre-Juubi's host madara, and he ended up beaten very badly, even though he waited till madara put his guard down so to speak [
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], but he but Minato, again, against the superior one, Madara after he became the Juubi's host [
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]. Although both got fodderized, but the point is, Minato's foe was at a greater power, and while Tobirama was shut down, Minato was able to help his team further and make almost all of Madara's Gedu-damas completely useless. Part 4:
In Term of Intelligence.
Both Hokages are considered to be intelligent. Firstly, Minato is said to be a genius that appears once in a while [
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]. He was praised to be intelligent as well by Tsunade, Jiraiya[
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] and Naruto [
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]. According to the sannin as well, he is not the guy who would do something without a reason [
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][
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]. In addition to that, he also stated that he could have handled the Uchiha Coup d'état better/earlier [
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]. In terms of analysing the foe's jutsu, Minato has shown some of the best feats as well. First of all, he analysed Kakashi's chidori from the first time he saw it [
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] He figured out how the jutsu worked and what its strong points and weaknesses as well. He was also able to analyze Obito's Kamui from the first time and counter it in no time [
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][
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][
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]. Which took Naruto, Kakashi, Guy, and B a lot more time to find out about, and it took a lot of teamwork to overwhelm Kamui so to speak. Minato's feats continue, in the War when Obito trapped them. Tobirama tried to come up with a solution but Minato gave a better solution than that of Tobirama's[
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][
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]. His Idea of teleporting the Entire Tree, which Tobirama couldn't think of. He also analysed the Black Orbs [
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][
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][
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]. He talked about the speed, distance, and the control, then he came up with a plan to deal with it, even though he only met Lee and Gaara for a minute or so! That's beside his plan for Naruto and the village by sealing only half of Kurama inside Naruto, so Konoha does not lose its Bijuu, and sealing his chakra and Kushina's chakra inside Naruto to help him.In term of jutsus he created the Rasengan, Rasen-Flash Super-Circle Dance Howl Stage Three, S/T barrier, and improved the FTG to a higher degree than Tobirama. Also, according to the DT3 he was creating the jutsu after the other [
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]. Tobirama's feats are that he thought of building a lot of constructions for Konoha [
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], which are based on Hashirama's ideas [
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]. That's in addition to creating some of the strongest jutsus like ET, FTG, clones, and the explosion tags jutsu. He also was/is a good politician and that's why he was thinking of Konoha when he decided to sell the Biuu rather than given them for the villages for free. That's beside the fact he noticed the Juubi's host weakness after the frog attack, and the fact that even the ET cannot regenerate if they got hit by the black stuff, after Obito's statement about the yin, and yang.In Term of Hype.
Tobirama some hype going for him.
Tobirama was hyped by the ANBU to be the ultimate shinobi [
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]. He was also hailed as the fastest in his time according to Madara [
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], and the greatest in the village at the time according to Danzo [
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].As for Minato;
He was one of the finest ninja Konoha has ever produced , even the villagers wished that he was alive to deal with the threat [
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], even in the presence of another Hokage during Kurama's attack on the village [
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]. He was so talented that one of the sannin, Jiraiya stated that no one like him was born in a while [
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], and that everyone pales in comparison to him [
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] to the point where he thought that Minato was the child of prophecy [
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][
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][
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], the one who will save the world [
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]. Minato is also an excellent and superior ninja [
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] that the Raikage thought that there is no one who could surpass him [
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]. His power was to such an extent that because of it the villages gave a flee on sight orders, and that the ninja should run the moment they see him [
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][
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], even the likes of B, a perfect host was trembling the moment he heard his name [
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], and the likes of Madara were waiting for him to go away so they can take their move [
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]. Minato as a great Hokage [
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], who deserved his title [
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], was especially good with the teleportation jutsu that exceeds his predecessor [
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][
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][
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], and his unique sealing jutsu [
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][
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], that he learned a lot of them from his wife, Kushina [
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], and even Kurama himself acknowledged the complexity of the those seals [
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] which required a great deal of ability [
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]. In addition to that, Minato, who can do miraculous things [
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], besides his ability as a ninja, who was thought to be a strong [
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] saviour [
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] that does not make mistakes [
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] and had no failings [
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] is a genius [
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] that does not do anything without a reason [
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][
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], which can give a better results in a complex situation like in the uchiha's case [
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].and those are the areas that I can cover about those 2 Hokages from the information I have. Minato, Konoha's Yellow flash [
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][
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][
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], that Naruto [
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], chose him from all the Hokages to be his goal to be a greater Hokage than him [
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]. With some oh his power remain unseen, such as his element [
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], his jutsu [
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], and probably some others [
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].Zetsu [
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]
Joki Boi
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2014
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- 252
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Tobirama has the superior hand speed (look at who touched the guddoh Dama even though Minato was in KCM and closer) and reactions. Minato is never touching Tobirama and Tobirama's stamina is leaps and bounds above Minato's.
Minato fans will never be able to argue over this hurdle, no matter how much damage control they try to use.
Minato fans will never be able to argue over this hurdle, no matter how much damage control they try to use.
Gold Lightning
Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
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Pretty sure Tobirama body flickered to get to it first. That's what the anime shows him doing anyway. It wasn't a matter of hand speed -_-, he just got their first that's all. He probably spotted it from afar before the others did and acted.
Minato namikaze123
Member
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- Apr 28, 2014
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- 365
- Reaction score
- 24
Minato is superior to Tobirama...
in Speed(tobirama stated it)
In strength (enhancement of SM)
same in intelligence i guess.
better FTG technique
in Speed(tobirama stated it)
In strength (enhancement of SM)
same in intelligence i guess.
better FTG technique
Great Master Minato
Jōnin Strategist 🧠
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Without Edo Tensei Tobirama Loses His Only Chance To Beat Minato...Tobirama Needs Edo Tensei To Compete With Minato...Base Minato Takes This For Sure Any Form Above Base Is A Rape...
BenjerminGaye
Kage in the Making 👑
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I know right? That perfect sage mode.
Ot:minato mid high. Superior speed, reactions, ftg, and chakra gives him the win.
Valhorus
Jōnin Strategist 🧠
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2014
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The only retard here is you for calling other ppl retards .
Show me a scan where someone reacted 2 times to 8th Gate Gai speed can you ? Oh yeah it is Minato , and again It is Minato who were still around after facing Madara with Juubi , can''t say the same for Tobirama .
