Champ
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He does use them. Minato is blown to bits now and Tobirama teleported Sasuke, he allowed nothing.
Minato vs Tobirama
- Thread starter TenthHokagexRamen
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He does use them. Minato is blown to bits now and Tobirama teleported Sasuke, he allowed nothing.
ShiroT
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what? He ALLOWED him to link his chakra to his seals are we not reading the same manga? Where he ASKED permission to use minato's seals? And as minato said his seals dont disappear so once the connection is there it stays.
Champ
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Like I said Tobirama can teleport to any of Minato's kunai and kill him
ShiroT
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in a fight minato wouldnt even let him connect to his kunai's so he cant and wont
Ababeel
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Lol, I was not going to do it, but since you seem to like it, I'll do it for you. XD
Minato & Tobirama.
In Term of Jutsus.
Both of these ninja are relying heavily on their teleporting jutsus, FTG. However, Minato is greater than Tobirama with the teleporting jutsus as Tobirama admitted in two places, [
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][
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]. However, some people may argue 2 things. The first is that FTG cannot be slower since it's a teleporting jutsu. However, that was proven wrong by Tobirama himself [
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]. The other thing is that Tobirama said "shunshin" not "FTG". However, FTG was called as a shunshin like 12 times, that cannot be a coincidence, or can it? [
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][
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][
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][
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][
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][
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][
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][
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][
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][
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][
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]Not only that, but Tobirama even praised Minato for being fast at striking as well [
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]. While Tobirama showed the usage of 1 Kunai against madara, Minato uses a lot of them during the battle, examples of that would be his fight against A & B or his fight in the 3rd War [
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][
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]. Based on that Minato is as proved by Tobirama himself is indeed better, especially that Minato was praised to be the fastest ever [
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], while Tobirama was praised to be the the fastest during his area [
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]. Thus, Minato's teleporting jutsus that he shared with Tobirama give him the edge because of his mastery over them like FTG, and Goshun Mawashi. I may argue that Minato's slashes with the Kunais are also better than that of Tobirama, since when Minato attacks there is no window to dodge as with tobirama, examples of that are [
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][
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]. Unlike Tobirama, [
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][
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]. In addition to that, Minato's Kunais are heavier [
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] and also has a great deal of power [
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].As for defenses cases, Minato's greatest defensive moves is his S/T barrier which can deal with moves as strong and the TBB [
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][
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]. On the other hand, Tobirama's move is his Water wall, which has the feat of protecting him from Hiruzen's fire Dragon [
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].About shunshin. Minato still has some of the best feats in the manga; [
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][
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][
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][
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][
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]. Crossing Konoha in no time, stopping kakashi before he could even move his hand, and separating the Kunais before the Hokages even arrive. On the other hand, Tobirama has none, except taking the black orb off panel, which cannot be taken seriously. That's in term of their teleportation jutsus (other than the Water Wall) which they rely on heavily. Both of them are sensor type ninje, they can sense the chakra by their fingers or not. Minato can sense with even one finger [
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][
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], unlike Tobirama who uses two fingers for that [
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]. Both have clones, and can use the 4 suns barrier, so they are more or less even in this regard. However, Minato can easily break this when he use his SM to improve all of his base states and make his sensing, chakra, and other things more powerful, although that is only for short time [
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]. In addition to that those feats a long side the previous ones are more than half of Tobirama's arsenal. As for offensive moves, Tobirama also has his Water Severing Wave which was able to cut throw some of the Tree's branches [
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]. However, we saw a lot of things can cut throw them as well [
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], so it does not really prove how powerful this jutsu is. Minato on the other hand has his Rasengan that was able to damage obito's heavily despite he has Hashirama's cells, but he lost his arm and the earth service underneath him was completely destroyed [
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]. So, by feats, the Rasengan has a greater offensive power than Tobirama's jutsu. Another jutsu that Tobirama has is his Water Dragon [
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]. But even that fells short against Minato's Food Cart Destroyer jutsu that was able to put even Kurama down for a while [
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][
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]. One of Tobirama's most powerful jutses is Edo Tensei. However, he does not really have feats with it, and we have no idea what kind of people that he can summon. However, we know that by Kabuto's statement even Oro's part 1 ET was greater than that of Tobirama's [
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], so I would assume that Tobirama's ET was not meant for the power of the summoned people, but rather for his strongest offensive move which is Mutually Multiplying Explosive Tags, which was implied by Madara as well [
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]. In addition to that, we know that the ETs have a contract from Madara's statement [
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]. And we know that Minato can break the contract by his contract seal [
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]. So, really it won't be much of use for Tobirama either. Now, Minato also has a summoning jutsu, but instead of summoning the dead, he summons the frogs. Unlike the Tobirama's case we actually know the frogs and we know their jutsus.
As Tobirama's feats and jutsus stop as far as this. Minato has shown a great mastery over the sealing jutsus that he can do some even with on hand.
Minato also has
Chakra Transfer Technique
Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Four Symbols Seal
Eight Trigrams Sealing Style
Sage Mode
besides his unrevealed jutsu the Spiralling Flash Super Round Dance Howl Participate Formula. That's without going to the other things like their hype and battles ...etc
In Term of Battles.
we either have some scan of their battles, or not even a complete fights. Therefore, I will rely on, both the scans we have about the fight, and the statements that were made for the given fights.
First of all, one of the fights we know about Tobirama is the fact that he fought Kin & Gin. One of the fights he fought with them was a surprised attack against him and the 2nd Raikage with him, as a result of this fight Tobirama got almost killed by them [
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]. On the other fights against Kinkaku Unite which has 20 shonibi, it's when they finally were able to kill him. What we know about that from the scans we have is the fact that Tobirama and his 6 students thought that fighting against Kinkaku and his teams it just too much for them [
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]. He ended up getting defeated by them [
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][
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].While also we know that Kin & Gin have Kurama's chakra within them, but we know that Kinkaku does not use it unless someone has taken Ginkaku out according to Kakuzu [
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]On the other hand, Minato fought against A & B several times, a team which was stated to be superior and the strongest team in Kumo [
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]. ِAlthough we only have some scans of their fight and the rest is remains unseen, but we know that Minato is superior to them from their own mouths [
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][
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]. Current B, was trembling just because Naruto's mentioned his father's name, he won't tremble if Minato was inferior or equal to him. Not to mention he was not fighting Minato alone, but with A along side him, so that's enough to be sure that he's alone can't deal with Minato, otherwise he would destroy Minato with A! Anyway, A also admitted inferiority to Minato [
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]. So, A believes that there is no man who can surpass Minato, which is a straight forward statement that Minato is the superior one, not only superior to both A & B, but anyone else according to A (who by the way know about Kin, Gin, Tobirama, his father...etc)Other battle is almost one scan, which is Tobirama's battle against Izuna [
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].Izuna in that scan was not even using his MS, so I think it's save to assume that Tobirama had the edge because
Izuna's chakra became low that he couldn't keep his sharingan activated anymore. In top of that we do not even know
how powerful Izuna was to begin with. It also worth to mention that the translation that some of Tobirama's fans use to
prove Izuna's power is actually wrong, itachi (whom his knowledge in that regard was proven to be wrong) did not say that Izuna was as powerful as madara, but rather they were training together [
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], and that's all. Izuna in the flashback was even shocked that there is someone who's stronger than his brother! Minato on the other hand fought against Obito who was trained by madara as well. Not only that but he also has Hashi's cells and he was controlling Kurama, whi was attacking the village. In top of that he attacked Minato off gourd, yet he still got his ass handled to him. Even though he has a superior jutsu to both Minato and Tobirama's s/t jutsus.
So, once again Minato fought superior foes to that of Tobirama.
We also know that ET Tobirama with his brother and Oro fought against old Hiruzen. Which he also ended up losing the fight
it is true that he was not at his full power, but so was Hiruzen, and even if we ignored that, it's still one of his battles.
On the other hand Minato was fighting on the 3rd war and pretty much changing the entire result from Konoha losing the war to konoha winning the war, and it was even stated that he ended his battled in a blink of an eye. As we know that in the front line, there were 1000 shinobi as Minato stated [
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] and he was send there as well defeating them, and through out the War he also was defeating those ninja from Iwa [
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][
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][
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] Ending the War [
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].---Space---
In Term of Intelligent.
Both of the Hokages are considered to be intelligent. First, Minato is said to be a genius that appears once in a while [
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]. He was praised to be intelligent as well by Tsunade and Jiraiya[
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], and Naruto [
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]. According to the sannin as well, he is not the guy who will do something without a reason [
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][
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]. In addition to that, he also stated that he could have handled the Uchiha coup detat better/earlier [
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]. In term of analyzing the foe's jutsus, Minato has shown some of the best feats as well. First of all, he analyzed Kakashi's chidori from the first time he saw it [
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] He figured out how the jutsu work and what its strong point and its weakness as well. He was also able to analyze Obito's Kamui from the first time and counter it in no time [
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]. Which took Naruto, kakashi, guy, and B a lot more time to find out about, and a lot of team work to overwhelm Kamui so to speak. Minato's feats continue that in the War when obito trapped them, and Tobirama tried to come with a solution, Minato gave a better solution than that of Tobirama [
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][
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]. His Idea of teleporting the Entire Tree, which Tobirama couldn't think of. He also analyzed the Black Orbs [
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][
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][
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]. He talked about the speed, distance, and the control, then he came up with a plane to deal with it, even though he only met Lee and Gaara for a minute or so! That's beside his plan for Naruto and the village by sealing only half of Kurama inside Naruto, so Konoho does not lose its Bijuu, and sealing his chakra and Kushina's chakra inside Naruto to help him.In term of jutsus, he created the Rasengan, Rasen-Flash Super-Circle Dance Howl Stage Three, S/T barrier, and improved the FTG to a higher degree than Tobirama. Also, according to the DT3 he was creating the jutsu after the other [
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]. Tobirama's feats, is he thought of building a lot of constructors for Konoha [
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]. Besides creating some of the strongest jutsus like ET, FTG, clones, and the explosion tags jutsu. He also was/is a good politics and that's he was thinking about konoha when he decided to sell the Biuus rather than given them for the villages by free. That's beside he noticed the Juubi's host weakness after the frog attack, and the fact that even the ET cannot regenerate if they got hit by the black stuff, after obitos statement about the yin, and yang.In Term of Hype.
Tobirama some hype going for him.
1- From the ANBU [
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].2- Danzo [
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]3- Madara [
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]So, Tobirama was the fastest during his area, and was the strongest in the village when he was the Hokage.
Minato has a lot of hype as well.
From Tobirama [
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][
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][
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][
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] . From B [
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][
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].From A [
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]From Naruto [
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][
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][
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][
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]From Jiraiya [
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][
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][
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][
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]From Tsunade [
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]Hiruzen [
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]Fodders (villages) [
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][
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][
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]kakashi [
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]obito [
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]itachi [
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]Minato [
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][
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]Kushina [
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]Kurama [
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]Zetsu [
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]Hagoromo [
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]In Conclusion, Minato is superior by feats, hype, and portrayed.
xxxLegacy
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Cuz he is a Senju is no PROOF.
Kisame , A , 3 Raikage are not Senjus but they have 100% more Chakra than Tobirama or other Senjus.
ShiroT
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nice one
:x3:i didnt want to go in depth lol but it wouldnt have been anything like this
Stxluciferr
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Originally Posted by Penguin.
Minato got their via teleportation aka shunshin aka body flicker. Footspeed, Minato trumps Tobirama. Tobirama trumps Minato in reaction speed. Their FTG is equal unless you are facing a tailed beast or you need to transport a shinobi alliance, since Tobirama cannot transport multiple people or multiple bijuudama. Other than that, they are pretty much equal. Tobirama has better intelligence, battle tactics, experience, sensory powers, and chakra whereas Minato has better kuchiyose, fuuinjutsu, and hand seals.
So taking all of this in mind can someone tell me how Minato is putting Tobirama down? I've already given my take on how Tobirama can win here:
Re: Tobirama Vs Minato
I think I'll take Tobirama.
Minato has more firepower but firepower isn't going to matter to much in this match up. Tobirama' arsenal is better suited for setting up on FTG users. MInato's marked kunia can be knocked away or displaced or destroyed by suiton water vortex and explosions or other things whereas Tobirama can mark his own edo's and have FTG markers that not only cant be permanantly destroyed but also give him the upper hand in CQC, and the only way Minato can win is with CQC
As stated ^above Tobirama can set up on Minato's markings by places exploding edo's in the vicinity, while minato has no real way to hurt Tobirama. Toads summons are large targets for various suiton techs
With two FTG users fighting I don't think any heavy blows are going to land. It comes down to who can outflank/outmaneuver the other. Tobirama's arsenal is better suited for doing this.
Originally Posted by Ababeel
I was talking about this actually
and if you want viz translation
This is irrelevant as I have already shown that FTG isn't how Minato got to the battlefield here:
Originally Posted by Ababeel
Minato has FTG seal on Naruto's seal.
That may be true but Minato clearly doesn't FTG to Naruto:
Notice how the kunia is thrown in from off panel, meaning Minato has already gotten to the area and threw it in front of them. He then FTG's to it.
EDIT: If pics are not working here are the links.
With that the idea that Minato's teleportation is faster should be put to rest, as there is no other way to prove it. With their FTG being equal it does not matter who the better sensor as the difference in the sensory skill between the two isn't going to be high enough to be a factor.
@xxxLegacy
Minato having more chakra than Tobirama? No. Tobirama flexed his chakra and it couldn't be contained by the room he was in. Not only that but Sm is more about chakra control, not amount. And Tobirama's genius was envied by Orochimaru which speaks volumes
If these were the only arguments you've been going by to put Minato over Tobirama then I'm convinced Tobirama takes this
Minato got their via teleportation aka shunshin aka body flicker. Footspeed, Minato trumps Tobirama. Tobirama trumps Minato in reaction speed. Their FTG is equal unless you are facing a tailed beast or you need to transport a shinobi alliance, since Tobirama cannot transport multiple people or multiple bijuudama. Other than that, they are pretty much equal. Tobirama has better intelligence, battle tactics, experience, sensory powers, and chakra whereas Minato has better kuchiyose, fuuinjutsu, and hand seals.
So taking all of this in mind can someone tell me how Minato is putting Tobirama down? I've already given my take on how Tobirama can win here:
Re: Tobirama Vs Minato
I think I'll take Tobirama.
Minato has more firepower but firepower isn't going to matter to much in this match up. Tobirama' arsenal is better suited for setting up on FTG users. MInato's marked kunia can be knocked away or displaced or destroyed by suiton water vortex and explosions or other things whereas Tobirama can mark his own edo's and have FTG markers that not only cant be permanantly destroyed but also give him the upper hand in CQC, and the only way Minato can win is with CQC
As stated ^above Tobirama can set up on Minato's markings by places exploding edo's in the vicinity, while minato has no real way to hurt Tobirama. Toads summons are large targets for various suiton techs
With two FTG users fighting I don't think any heavy blows are going to land. It comes down to who can outflank/outmaneuver the other. Tobirama's arsenal is better suited for doing this.
Originally Posted by Ababeel
I was talking about this actually
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and if you want viz translation
This is irrelevant as I have already shown that FTG isn't how Minato got to the battlefield here:
Originally Posted by Ababeel
Minato has FTG seal on Naruto's seal.
That may be true but Minato clearly doesn't FTG to Naruto:
Notice how the kunia is thrown in from off panel, meaning Minato has already gotten to the area and threw it in front of them. He then FTG's to it.
EDIT: If pics are not working here are the links.
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With that the idea that Minato's teleportation is faster should be put to rest, as there is no other way to prove it. With their FTG being equal it does not matter who the better sensor as the difference in the sensory skill between the two isn't going to be high enough to be a factor.
@xxxLegacy
Minato having more chakra than Tobirama? No. Tobirama flexed his chakra and it couldn't be contained by the room he was in. Not only that but Sm is more about chakra control, not amount. And Tobirama's genius was envied by Orochimaru which speaks volumes
If these were the only arguments you've been going by to put Minato over Tobirama then I'm convinced Tobirama takes this
xxxLegacy
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WOOOW you took the room as argument? :leaf::leaf:
Was it ever said , that you need a lot of Chakra for this move ? Any Proof ? Scan ? Has somebody said ( woow how much chakra he should have , that proofs he has more Chakra then a perfect SM User......anything like that ? Pls show me something , then i would believe you
First of all, it was said you need a damn bunch of BASE--CHAKRA than you are able you use Senjutsu + The Chakra contol is at second Place.
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ShiroT
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your better intelligence and battle tactics are opinionated and not fact. And in a comparison in feats minato wins. In a ftg match minato wins due to him using kunais and tobi not. Edos can be handled with extra clones to close in and break the seal.
Long range jutsus will not work on a ftg user so mot of tobi's water techs go out he window which is why minato gets the edge in CQC with his kunai's and rasengan(especially with sage mode and kyuubi chakra mode). Also he could potientally seal his chakra in CQC
He also has summonings which would even the score if tobi has edos. Also his summonings are perfect to counter tobi's water jutsus.
A kunai can not be completly destroyed by suitan and your forgetting that no matter where it is minato can teleport to it to escape. So even if Tobi moves it its just another spot minato can ftg to making it pointless as he can pick it back up. Also tryin to destroy a kunai would leave him open.
Also i remember orochimaru saying he perfected edo tensei meaning tobi might not have been proficient at it at all.
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Ababeel
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it might be a coincidence, but I was planning to add some stuff to my earlier post, and it was about the chakra XD
and when I just finished it, (though not in much details) I saw that XD
ShiroT
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:stfu: .
xxxLegacy
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and Tobirama teleporting 2 Kurama Avatar's = 100 %
Minato teleporting also 100 % Kurama after all and this alive.
