Minato Vs Hiruzen

[silmarill]

From what we have seen Minato wins No difficulty
Part 1 battles seem kinda fodder compared to atm

 

[Owarij]

+ Rep, I agree with you 100 percent. And it's funny how the guy you're replying to had nothing to say to this, yet he can reply to everyone else. I think he knows the truth xd

prob cause i didn't see it?

agree with ur every point , however when it is a fight , it's not always about power and who is strong , definitely hiruzen was more powerful
not only in terms of chakra reserves , but had more jutsus also , but a fight is not decided by raw strength or the no. of technique , but how useful ur techniques are against ur enemy and how much killer instinct u have .

i saw minato in 3 fights vs A, tobi ,earth shinobi s . and also have seen hiruzen in 1 fight against oro and 2 hokages .
and i found minato was more profound , calm ,battle smart and with more killer instinct . i mean always one step ahead from the enemy .

quote from tobi - u got me , this is what is meant by elusive .
tobi was surprised 3 times by minato , even if he was aware of his speed and knew about him already ,

now here we r considering a fight which never happened , that means we have to consider their abilities shown or heard as whole , and we have to analyse .
now if u ask who is more powerful , i say hiruzen

but
if u talk about
who will be the winner if they fight , well then i say minato wins .
why
it's simple he will execute his techniques very well , he is fast and smart , i see every possibility of minato winning but i see very less possibility of
hiruzen winning .



i agree to this too that he was never said strongest ,
even kabuto underrated him saying he was nothing compare to hashirama , however i see this as underestimating rather than anything else , no different then people underestimating naruto while he was fighting neji and then getting surprised after he beat him .

also none of minato's abilities were of kabuto's interest he didn't have senju DNA neither had rapid healing or kekkei genkai mokutoun . it's obvious he underrated him .
however if again it comes to fight i see minato doing better than even hashi . cuz no matter how fast healing u can't survive when ur head chopped off . that's what i think .

1) How can you possibly judge Hiruzen's killer instinct? He was not operating anything near how he used to in his 1 fight... Why? well it was obvious he had to kill his student and two sensei's , even the databook said oro did that to mind **** him

They all were ninjas, all could kill in cold blood.. so i don't really get what killer instinct you are referring to...

tobi was surprised 3 times by minato , even if he was aware of his speed and knew about him already ,

Wrong, Tobi did not know everything about Minato, he knew about His speed and that he had FTG

He did not know he had FTG V2 and that was the game breaker... If he knew minato had ftg v2 he wouldn't charge into the kunai..

Hiruzen would knw everything about how his ftg works..

why
it's simple he will execute his techniques very well , he is fast and smart , i see every possibility of minato winning but i see very less possibility of
hiruzen winning .

?? You phrase your sentence like Hiruzen wasn't a genius of geniuses? really? your phrase it as if Minato is the only Genius in this battle...

Hiruzen was versed in everything, according to manga he had over 1000 genjutsu that he mastered, What's minato really going to against it?
Like every ninja, try and disrupt his own chakra flow? great, look where that got Orochimaru against itachi..

Genjutsu is dangerous.. the most deadliest and rarest of the 3 shinobi combat skills... Even the weakest kind can end masters.. as we saw in the latest chapter.. with no doubt , if sasuke was alone , or itachi, they would possibly be dead before they could break it by themselves..

With a 5 in databook for it, as well as his manga statement saying he's a master...How is it possible you see minato winning more times in this?

it's simple he will execute his techniques very well

And hiruzen wouldn't?
He has thousands of jutsu, and would have had every element... Any jutsu he came across he would be able to counter it..
as he showed, tobirama counter earth wall etc...

if again it comes to fight i see minato doing better than even hashi . cuz no matter how fast healing u can't survive when ur head chopped off . that's what i think .

I don't know what this part is directed to , but are you saying Minato can beat Hashirama?

 

[Owarij]

You try to explain away why Hiruzen looked like poop in part 1, as well as the edos.

And again, Minato was stated to have unrivaled strength - on a cover! Not by Konoha fanboys.

From what we have seen Minato wins No difficulty
Part 1 battles seem kinda fodder compared to atm

Really? i already explained there is a power change from part 1 and 2..

Hiruzen looked like poop? HASHIRAMA AND TOBIRAMA looked like more pooP

explain that?

and don't come with the edos were weaker bs

Oro's edo tensei was perfected... So tell me why tobirama's biggest feat was doing something many ninja such as darui has done before..

And again, Minato was stated to have unrivaled strength - on a cover! Not by Konoha fanboys

Great, and what was that statement directed to? Every ninja that ever existed? the ninjas that existed while he was alive?

you have no idea?

unless you're going to tell me minato > ems madara, hashirama etc?
is that what you're saying?
the man jiraya said didn't even live to reach his talent? the man tsunade said died young? k

 

[silmarill]

Really? i already explained there is a power change from part 1 and 2..

Hiruzen looked like poop? HASHIRAMA AND TOBIRAMA looked like more pooP

explain that?

and don't come with the edos were weaker bs

Oro's edo tensei was perfected... So tell me why tobirama's biggest feat was doing something many ninja such as darui has done before..


Great, and what was that statement directed to? Every ninja that ever existed? the ninjas that existed while he was alive?

you have no idea?

unless you're going to tell me minato > ems madara, hashirama etc?
is that what you're saying?
the man jiraya said didn't even live to reach his talent? the man tsunade said died young? k

well yea ofc theres a powerchange from part 1 too 2
If the battle would have been remade to fit in part 2 they would fight on the same scales as we see currently
Thats why i said from what we have seen..

 

[Owarij]

well yea ofc theres a powerchange from part 1 too 2
If the battle would have been remade to fit in part 2 they would fight on the same scales as we see currently
Thats why i said from what we have seen..

When judging that fight, don't look at part 2 then..

judge from a part 1 point of view..
and in a part 1 point of view, Hiruzen defeated and sealed hashirama and tobirama at full power and 1/4 sealed orochimaru.. at the age of 69 or so..

In part 2 imagine kakashi going up against two edo's in this war..

Idk , Muu and hanzo?

But kabuto gave them their ability to talk etc.. oro didn't..


that's exactly what happened in part 1, the edo's were at full power.. back then what they did there was strong.. infact probably the strongest set of jutsu used in part 1.. that fight was legendary... Part 2 is different.. you can't compare the both..

In conclusion, fact - Hiruzen bested two Perfected edo tensei versions of Hashirama and tobirama..

If kishi wrote it over, Hiruzen would have bested Two perfected edo tensei versions of hashirama and tobirama.. But this time with more op jutsu... tobirama's s//t jutsu, flower world etc may have been shown..

 

[Son of God]

Really? i already explained there is a power change from part 1 and 2..

Hiruzen looked like poop? HASHIRAMA AND TOBIRAMA looked like more pooP

explain that?

and don't come with the edos were weaker bs

Oro's edo tensei was perfected... So tell me why tobirama's biggest feat was doing something many ninja such as darui has done before..


Great, and what was that statement directed to? Every ninja that ever existed? the ninjas that existed while he was alive?

you have no idea?

unless you're going to tell me minato > ems madara, hashirama etc?
is that what you're saying?
the man jiraya said didn't even live to reach his talent? the man tsunade said died young? k

Oh wow. Unrivaled strength. There is my evidence. You cannot explain that away. Otherwise I'll say "Hiruzen was the best of the Hokage's - on wednesday afternoons when eating pie"

Talk about favoritism.

 

[silmarill]

When judging that fight, don't look at part 2 then..

judge from a part 1 point of view..
and in a part 1 point of view, Hiruzen defeated and sealed hashirama and tobirama at full power and 1/4 sealed orochimaru.. at the age of 69 or so..

In part 2 imagine kakashi going up against two edo's in this war..

Idk , Muu and hanzo?

But kabuto gave them their ability to talk etc.. oro didn't..


that's exactly what happened in part 1, the edo's were at full power.. back then what they did there was strong.. infact probably the strongest set of jutsu used in part 1.. that fight was legendary... Part 2 is different.. you can't compare the both..

In conclusion, fact - Hiruzen bested two Perfected edo tensei versions of Hashirama and tobirama..

If kishi wrote it over, Hiruzen would have bested Two perfected edo tensei versions of hashirama and tobirama.. But this time with more op jutsu... tobirama's s//t jutsu, flower world etc may have been shown..

logically speaking he would best them again , but im not too sure if Kishi in part 1 had intended to give Hashirama so much hype (and give him more attention) later on in the manga
just like he did with Hiruzen in part 1
I would call this a plothole maybe
*ofc this is just my assumption*
I mean Hiruzen 70 year old defeating Hashirama the man who beated ems madara + Tobirama
My logic says in part 1 he never even thought of the script that he would revive madara for example

 

[Owarij]

logically speaking he would best them again , but im not too sure if Kishi in part 1 had intended to give Hashirama so much hype (and give him more attention) later on in the manga
just like he did with Hiruzen in part 1
I would call this a plothole maybe
*ofc this is just my assumption*
I mean Hiruzen 70 year old defeating Hashirama the man who beated ems madara + Tobirama
My logic says in part 1 he never even thought of the script that he would revive madara for example

No, this is just another case of understimation of hiruzen.. he was meant to be that powerful.. he has the hype to suit the feat.. strongest hokage and god of shinobi..

The Hype of him MATCHES him defeating them both.. That's what kishi meant to do..

The student surpassed both his teachers..

 

[Houssem]

He didnt live to reach his talent, but the level he reached is still legendary.
Ok battles in part 1 were shit got you, so why is shiki fujin and edo ( 2 part 1 justsu's ) are still the most pwerful jutsu's till today ? i mean even tenten with shiki fujin could **** edo madara FTW.
Saying the nindaime's suiton wasnt impressive means sarutobi's katon wasnt impressive.
You tell me hiruzen > Minato. k.
Hiruzen > Hashirama. you're a fanboy. :d
Beasted two perfected edo ? he pretty much suicide bombed himself.
And they were not taking actions on their own, orochimaru controled them, so he coudnt take advantage of full potential. ( edo Madra, sasori,deidara.....) are acting on free will on battle.
¨Saying the edo is perfect means a hokage woud've been beaten by an exploding paper ? they didnt have their own reflexes.

 

[SoundBar]

No, this is just another case of understimation of hiruzen.. he was meant to be that powerful.. he has the hype to suit the feat.. strongest hokage and god of shinobi..

The Hype of him MATCHES him defeating them both.. That's what kishi meant to do..

The student surpassed both his teachers..

No, you're wrong, he was not the strongest Hokage, Hashirama was -__-

And if you're going to use the "new generation surpassed the old" crap, then there really isn't any debate about who wins then is there? Because from what you're saying, Minato surpassed Hiruzen.

Can't have your cake and eat it too fool. xd

 

[Owarij]

No, you're wrong, he was not the strongest Hokage, Hashirama was -__-

And if you're going to use the "new generation surpassed the old" crap, then there really isn't any debate about who wins then is there? Because from what you're saying, Minato surpassed Hiruzen.

Can't have your cake and eat it too fool. xd

wtf? did i ever say new generation surpasses old? did i ever go by that logic?
I'm going by what was stated in manga.. that hiruzen was revered as the strongest hokage
AND that hiruzen defeated both 1st and 2nd PERFECTED edo's

Read what i've been saying before replying to me plz k thx

 

[SoundBar]

No, this is just another case of understimation of hiruzen.. he was meant to be that powerful.. he has the hype to suit the feat.. strongest hokage and god of shinobi..

The Hype of him MATCHES him defeating them both.. That's what kishi meant to do..

The student surpassed both his teachers..

This is saying the new generation surpassed the old......yes you did say that unless you can't comprehend your own English smdh

 

[Houssem]

wtf? did i ever say new generation surpasses old? did i ever go by that logic?
I'm going by what was stated in manga.. that hiruzen was revered as the strongest hokage
AND that hiruzen defeated both 1st and 2nd PERFECTED edo's

Read what i've been saying before replying to me plz k thx

Oro's Edo being completed was stated later in the manga, so im gonna go for the data's at that time ( dont say the fight were weak im using data stated at the same time as the data you bring for your arguments ) . Can hiruzen beat the pollen jutsu ? the moukouton clones ? ( more durable than shadow clones ) + tons of kinjustsu + senju vitality strength and speed + amazing healing abilities.....etc
+Hiruzen was stated to be the strongest of 5 KAGES not HOKAGES.
And iruka didnt state he was the strongest of hokages, he said he was the strongest of all. ( which i take for strongest of all shinobi's and that's not right. )
+ The Anbu in hiruzen Vs oro battle stated shodaime and nindaime as the strongest shinobis.

 

[Owarij]

This is saying the new generation surpassed the old......yes you did say that unless you can't comprehend your own English smdh

Are you dumb? I'm not talking about every ninja.. I'm saying HIRUZEN surpassed his teachers

/sigh :sy:

Oro's Edo being completed was stated later in the manga, so im gonna go for the data's at that time ( dont say the fight were weak im using data stated at the same time as the data you bring for your arguments ) . Can hiruzen beat the pollen jutsu ? the moukouton clones ? ( more durable than shadow clones ) + tons of kinjustsu + senju vitality strength and speed + amazing healing abilities.....etc
+Hiruzen was stated to be the strongest of 5 KAGES not HOKAGES.
And iruka didnt state he was the strongest of hokages, he said he was the strongest of all. ( which i take for strongest of all shinobi's and that's not right. )
+ The Anbu in hiruzen Vs oro battle stated shodaime and nindaime as the strongest shinobis.

The manga is ONE continuous story .... god arguing with some of you people is just dumb

And iruka didnt state he was the strongest of hokages, he said he was the strongest of all. ( which i take for strongest of all shinobi's and that's not right. )
+ The Anbu in hiruzen Vs oro battle stated shodaime and nindaime as the strongest shinobis.

Iruka was talking about the hokages.. and the databooks say hokage also..

Anbu never said that stop the lies

sigh I'm going to play some dota

 

[SoundBar]

Are you dumb? I'm not talking about every ninja.. I'm saying HIRUZEN surpassed his teachers

/sigh :sy:



The manga is ONE continuous story .... god arguing with some of you people is just dumb

Iruka was talking about the hokages.. and the databooks say hokage also..

Anbu never said that stop the lies

sigh I'm going to play some dota

You can't exclude everyone else, that's called favoratism, which isn't hard to see that you favor Hiruzen smdh

 

[Owarij]

You can't exclude everyone else, that's called favoratism, which isn't hard to see that you favor Hiruzen smdh

Excluding everyone else? wtf are you talking about?

 

[Houssem]

So Anbu never said that ? :

You must be registered for see links

Read Manga and confrim before accusing people...
So you go saying arguing is dumb when you dont have anything else to say ? Bro no offense but your accused of severe fanboyism

 

[narutownsyouall]

Hiruzen mid.

 

[Owarij]

So Anbu never said that ? :

You must be registered for see links

Read Manga and confrim before accusing people...
So you go saying arguing is dumb when you dont have anything else to say ? Bro no offense but your accused of severe fanboyism

The anbu are talking about them being the strongest in their eras, not overall, they are talking about past and foundation of konoha

 

[ReapTermin]

Let's all agree that Kishi will be the one to determine this fight. But seeing as Minato is one of his favorite characters... I say Minato takes this. Minato's speed is too much for Hiruzen.