Minato vs Hiruzen and Danzo

[Rιver]

Jesus, people need to chill at my exaggeration smh. I was simply pointing out that Baku is larger and isn't being flat out 'crushed', not that it matters because FCD is never happening here.

What does Oil being sticky have to do with anything? Unless you have a reason as to why having oil inside his stomach will kill him when many rocks and trees have no effect on him, there's no arguing here. Sure, he might eventually die, but that it won't change anything since Minato will still reach the insides of Baku and Danzo just needs to reverse summon Baku at that point and it's gg. And what @bold? Sasuke's Katon grows to do huge damage due to the wind's amplification. Oil will be unaffected by suction, and it'll end up in his stomach without much effect on him (for the time being at least). It won't be a one shot technique, it's just going to be oil flowing into his stomach; no different from trees and rocks as they are both foreign and dangerous substances. And stones/trees become debris? The fūck? They are still in their constituent pieces in his stomach and would naturally do much more immediate internal damage then a sticky substance like oil.

Lol. It is commonly accepted that he Hirashin'd there given the abundance of Hirashin markings he had in the village. Show me a scan of FCD being used atop of a target while Jiraiya is summoning from ground-level or below wherever the target is and then we'll talk. Until then FCD is not a S/T technique and the user appearing atop of the summon is simply there because he was on top in the first place (thus no S/T like you are suggesting).



Lol at people picking at this particular point, thinking they are taking away from the rest of my argument. You know it was an exaggeration Wursta. Don't let me make a daily expose thread and make you look like Forest Gump with all the stupid shit you say on Skype.

Yeah I know it was an exaggeration but Baku is not even 1 inch bigger than Bunta unless you can give a more valid reason than small V3 Susanoo as to how a summoning like Baku dwarfs every 9 Bijuu bar full Kurama.

 

[Draegod]

Nope. From 20m Minato would get him with Shunshin considering Madara is slower than Tobirama (stated) and almost blitz SM Naruto, whose reactions are >> Hiruzen's, or by tossing a Kunai at him and using Hiraishin. This strategy would work if Minato tries to use Hiraishin, but if he uses Shunshin then forget about it.

How does the Enma cage stop a blitz?

1. Kunai would fit through the holes.
2. Minato would still be able to teleport inside the cage and kill Hiruzen like that.

Name one ninja that has been blitz by minato's shunshin and KO? I'll wait. Madara being slower then Tobimara means nothing, when Madara didn't "blitz" naruto, he attacked naruto and naruto defended. Show me Tobirama or minatao "blitzing" a sage mode user with out them blocking then we can talk. And what makes you think Hiruzen would just let any kunai near him when he knows minato depends on kunais? He or a clone makes a a wall of Shadow shurikens to prevent any and all "blitz" attempts or minato gets fatally wounded from head to toe.

1. It intercepts his "blitz" since when a ninja shunshin's they can only burst forward and not go side to side and things alike.
2. The moment he attempts to grab a Kunai is when he would be counter attacked by enma grabbing him or Hiruzen using a super fast elemental attack that is by far faster then the time Minato can grab a kunai then attempt to throw it inside the cage then use FTG. Wayyyyy too much time for Hiruzen and enma. Plus Danzo also using tactics.
3. Kill him with what? Enma Diamond Staff intercepts any and all Rasengans and kunai's are childs play to a ninja like Hiruzen.

All he has to do is activate it at the beginning of the fight instead of forgetting to do so like he did against Obito. Regardless, countering sneak attacks from Danzo will not be an issue.

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and when Sasuke noticed him.

And he has to keep activating it. It isn't like a light switch and stays on all the time afterwards. Then you compare Tobi slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwly attempting to grab minato to Danzo who successfully stabbed Susanoo and sasuke had no idea? really? S

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which is wayyyyy past the

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.

Obviously it isn't impossible, but considering Danzo and Hiruzen aren't fast enough, you can forget about them predicting and countering it. Obito got blitzed. He's faster than they are. The only people who have ever legit countered a Hiraishin blitz are SM Madara, JJ Madara and JJ Obito.

Who says they aren't fast enough? I'll give you if there marked already that it would be different. But based off what makes you think they wouldn't be fast enough to react? when they literally know every move minato would do. Minato throwing a kunai and then Ftg isn't the same as ftg the marked person. Bee says High to your last part with zero info on how it works btw

And yes, he'd know when Izanagi Kunai stab is coming. Outside of chakra sensing, he's going to make some kind of sound that'll get him noticed just like when Minato countered Obito's sneak attack.

Based off what? And again obito's slow attempt at grabbing and not attacking does not equal a kunai stab.

Based on what again? Danzo gets blitzed and there is nothing he can do about it. Predicting where Minato appears isn't going to let him react to the attack that follows, not to mention it'll be as clear as day that Minato is coming after him anyway, making prediction useless.

When minato attack's he is left open for counter attacks. Danzo would allow himself to get attacked just to touch minato. Unless Minato has the sharingan to predict what Danzo would do, then him attacking equals him getting touched since danzo wouldnt care what minato did to him. Hell even a izanagi touch from behind would mess minato up. Unless you're saying it's impossible to ever in life touch FTG users (which would make you think they are invincible to non rikudo characters).

Not to mention having Sharingan is irrelevant as Sharingan tracks movement, not instant teleportation. Not to mention if he gets attacked outside of his field of view, Sharingan would be irrelevant even if it could help predict Hiraishin. Unless Danzo somehow became faster than Obito, there is nothing to argue here.

Never said it would predict space time ninjutsu, what's your point?

And where did he underestimate Sasuke? The only thing that I recall being stated is that he was saving Shisui's eye for Madara.

How about the fact he was testing and gauging every move sasuke made and was constantly talking to him the entire time. Or how about the fact he was focused on saving chakra and power for Madara/tobi? Are you serious right now?

Speed feat hardly means anything when someone slower than Tobirama, who is slower than Minato on foot can almost blitz SM Naruto from a similar distance, and Hiruzen's reaction speed is not on par with SM Naruto's. So he gets done the same way.

Show feats of that being done with minato or tobirama. "almost blitz" isn't a "blitz" so your entire post is irrelevent when at first you stated he was blitz.

If clones try to round up the Kunai, they get blitzed and killed off in a heartbeat. Baku's suction is countered by Bunta spitting a boatload of oil into it's mouth, or Minato simply teleports out of it's suction range if he has Kunai laid around the battlefield.

Says who? Lol you seem to think Minagto can spam Shunshin when its a fact not even KCM/BSM naruto can spam shunshin or any ninja ever in the manga that weren't a Raiton mode user (that allows them to spam shunshin in particular). Show any scan of minato, Madara, tobirama spamming Shunshin like you're projecting then we can talk. Until then be realistic with the "Blitz" word.

 

[KidGamer65]

Name one ninja that has been blitz by minato's shunshin and KO? I'll wait.

Irrelevant statement since Minato not blitzing anyone on panel doesn't change the fact that he can blitz Hiruzen. I'll wait when you can tell me how this is relevant.

Madara being slower then Tobimara means nothing, when Madara didn't "blitz" naruto, he attacked naruto and naruto defended. Show me Tobirama or minatao "blitzing" a sage mode user with out them blocking then we can talk.

Naruto blocked? Yes, he barely blocked (hence me saying almost blitzed, so you pretty much wasted your time with this part of your post) and got his ass tossed on the ground. Not to mention you mention Naruto only being able to block as if it helps your argument, when it only proves that at best all Hiruzen can do is block. But he can't even do that since his reaction speed is not on par with SM Naruto's. Plain and simple. So regardless of whether or not he can block like Naruto did, he's finished. He either gets marked and finished off whenever Minato pleases, or he gets finished off at that instant.

And what makes you think Hiruzen would just let any kunai near him when he knows minato depends on kunais? He or a clone makes a a wall of Shadow shurikens to prevent any and all "blitz" attempts or minato gets fatally wounded from head to toe.

And then Minato dodges and just keeps tossing Kunai. If Hiruzen deflects them, Minato teleports to them as they are coming back and just tosses them again.

1. It intercepts his "blitz" since when a ninja shunshin's they can only burst forward and not go side to side and things alike.

If he could react to his Shunshin, then yes, it'd intercept it. But he can't, so no. But if he uses Hiraishin, then it doesn't matter since Minato can warp right into his cage and take him out. Hell, even if he uses it to block the Shunshin blitz (which he can't do since from a similar distance SM Naruto could only block against a slower opponent. So someone slower than Naruto isn't summoning anything before he gets marked by the faster foe) Minato would just toss a Kunai and teleport inside.

2. The moment he attempts to grab a Kunai is when he would be counter attacked by enma grabbing him or Hiruzen using a super fast elemental attack that is by far faster then the time Minato can grab a kunai then attempt to throw it inside the cage then use FTG. Wayyyyy too much time for Hiruzen and enma. Plus Danzo also using tactics.

Grab a Kunai? From his bag? Are you telling me that Hiruzen's elemental jutsu or Enma of all things is fast enough to hit Minato before he can grab a Kunai? Lmfao. Nice joke. If only any kind of feat in this Manga agreed with this statement. Where are the feats for these "super fast" jutsu? Their best feat is countering equal jutsu of equal, featless, speed. The time it'd take Hiruzen to make the hand sign alone is enough time for Minato to grab a Kunai from his bag.

Not to mention Hiraishin has a radius, he doesn't need to toss his Kunai right into the cage if he wants to teleport inside of the cage.

Or better yet, Minato marks the cage and retreats, then he blitzes Hiruzen after the cage turns back to Enma, or he just blitzes him then and there. Hiruzen won't know that his weapon has been marked, so he won't even expect it. Though it wouldn't matter even if he did.

Danzo doing what? Gonna need to be specific here. Not to mention he'll have his hands full too since Minato can use a clone.

3. Kill him with what? Enma Diamond Staff intercepts any and all Rasengans and kunai's are childs play to a ninja like Hiruzen.

How is Enma going to intercept Rasengan when it's in cage form? Better yet, how is he going to react to a Hiraishin attack when he literally has no speed feat that'd allow anyone in their right mind to claim that he reacts to Minato's attack let alone blocks it. He gets a Rasengan in his back just like Obito did.

And he has to keep activating it. It isn't like a light switch and stays on all the time afterwards. Then you compare Tobi slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwly attempting to grab minato to Danzo who successfully stabbed Susanoo and sasuke had no idea? really? S

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which is wayyyyy past the

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.

Considering every one else who uses the same technique doesn't have to keep turning on their sensing ability, not sure where this came from. Once Minato changes his chakra to sensor type, there's no reason to believe that it'd change back on it's own.

Lmfao. Where is the bold coming from? Regardless, the point is Minato will notice his presence, with ease at that. Reacting is up to his own reflexes, which are far beyond Sasuke's and most characters in this Manga. So easily reacts and counters, or he reacts and teleports away. Yes, Sasuke did notice him after he started talking, but Danzo didn't stab Susanoo without Sasuke having any idea nor does that change a thing that was said.

Who says they aren't fast enough? I'll give you if there marked already that it would be different. But based off what makes you think they wouldn't be fast enough to react? when they literally know every move minato would do. Minato throwing a kunai and then Ftg isn't the same as ftg the marked person. Bee says High to your last part with zero info on how it works btw

You mean where Minato teleported to B and simply held a Kunai above his head instead of coming down the moment he appeared like he does with all his foes? :lol Even if B did legit react, (which he didn't) B>>>These two when it comes to speed in all areas. Unless Hiruzen and Danzo somehow became faster than Obito, who got blitzed with no reaction when he fought Minato during the attack on Konoha

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) then you can forget about these two reacting.

Based off what? And again obito's slow attempt at grabbing and not attacking does not equal a kunai stab.

Irrelevant. The point is that Minato will notice his presence. Unless Danzo is fast enough to actually tag Minato before he can react, then there isn't an argument to be had here. Minato easily reacts.

When minato attack's he is left open for counter attacks.

Which means nothing if the opponent isn't quick enough to capitalize on this. And these two geezers are not.

Danzo would allow himself to get attacked just to touch minato. Unless Minato has the sharingan to predict what Danzo would do, then him attacking equals him getting touched since danzo wouldnt care what minato did to him. Hell even a izanagi touch from behind would mess minato up. Unless you're saying it's impossible to ever in life touch FTG users (which would make you think they are invincible to non rikudo characters).

Unless Danzo has arms at his side or his back, then this isn't going to work since those are the areas where Minato would attack him after using Hiraishin. Then there's the fact that Danzo can't even react, so how is he going to touch Minato while Minato is slamming a Rasengan into his chest (if he went for a frontal attack) or back? Not even being able to react isn't even the issue here. Danzo can't counter attack while getting hit with Rasengan.

It's impossible in life for Danzo or Hiruzen to ever lay their hands on Minato. Lol. Plenty of non rikudo characters who can touch him, Hiruzen and Danzo just don't fit the category. Not by a long shot tbh.

How about the fact he was testing and gauging every move sasuke made and was constantly talking to him the entire time. Or how about the fact he was focused on saving chakra and power for Madara/tobi? Are you serious right now?

Conserving energy doesn't mean he wasn't taking his foe seriously. No relation between the two. Then there's the fact that Danzo did none of this lecturing BS he was doing in the beginning of the fight, once Sasuke unlocked his Complete Susanoo and actually started putting pressure on him. So your claim is baseless.

Not to mention it's irrelevant. He can take Minato as serious as he wants to. Doesn't change the fact that literally no move they have can touch him. Not when big moves are sucked into his barrier and every other move is just evaded. If he spreads his tags like he did with Ay then he doesn't even need the barrier.

Show feats of that being done with minato or tobirama. "almost blitz" isn't a "blitz" so your entire post is irrelevent when at first you stated he was blitz.

I didn't say he was blitzed. I said he was almost blitzed. If someone much faster than Hiruzen was almost blitzed by a slower person, then pure common sense tells you Hiruzen is blitzed by someone who is faster considering Hiruzen is much slower than SM Naruto when it comes to reaction speed.

Even if I were to say that Hiruzen=Naruto in reaction speed lol) at best Hiruzen would be able to block, not counter, not summon, not use Ninjutsu. Block. Blocking means death here conisdering throwing up an arm guard isn't going to protect him from Rasengan, nor will it stop Minato from doing what Madara did but instead leaving a Hiraishin tag behind.

Says who? Lol you seem to think Minagto can spam Shunshin when its a fact not even KCM/BSM naruto can spam shunshin or any ninja ever in the manga that weren't a Raiton mode user (that allows them to spam shunshin in particular). Show any scan of minato, Madara, tobirama spamming Shunshin like you're projecting then we can talk. Until then be realistic with the "Blitz" word.

Lmfao. What in the world are you even talking about? I was obviously talking about Hiraishin. If clones try to round up Kunai and gather them in one spot, they are blitzed in a heartbeat. That makes this whole paragraph irrelevant.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Jesus, people need to chill at my exaggeration smh. I was simply pointing out that Baku is larger and isn't being flat out 'crushed', not that it matters because FCD is never happening here.

What does Oil being sticky have to do with anything? Unless you have a reason as to why having oil inside his stomach will kill him when many rocks and trees have no effect on him, there's no arguing here. Sure, he might eventually die, but that it won't change anything since Minato will still reach the insides of Baku and Danzo just needs to reverse summon Baku at that point and it's gg. And what @bold? Sasuke's Katon grows to do huge damage due to the wind's amplification. Oil will be unaffected by suction, and it'll end up in his stomach without much effect on him (for the time being at least). It won't be a one shot technique, it's just going to be oil flowing into his stomach; no different from trees and rocks as they are both foreign and dangerous substances. And stones/trees become debris? The fūck? They are still in their constituent pieces in his stomach and would naturally do much more immediate internal damage then a sticky substance like oil.

Lol. It is commonly accepted that he Hirashin'd there given the abundance of Hirashin markings he had in the village. Show me a scan of FCD being used atop of a target while Jiraiya is summoning from ground-level or below wherever the target is and then we'll talk. Until then FCD is not a S/T technique and the user appearing atop of the summon is simply there because he was on top in the first place (thus no S/T like you are suggesting).



Lol at people picking at this particular point, thinking they are taking away from the rest of my argument. You know it was an exaggeration Wursta. Don't let me make a daily expose thread and make you look like Forest Gump with all the stupid shit you say on Skype.

Baku isn't larger than Bunta, so keep your exaggerations to yourself. Bunta kept Kurama at bay and was able to fight shukaku, even slicing off one of his arms with his blade. Bunta is a powerhouse. If you really think Baku can even hold a candle to the boss toad, then you need help.

Why do I need to explain the implications of sticky oil? Don't you have common sense? If that goes inside his mouth, it clogs not only the inside, making suction impossible, it also clogs everything else further down if he swallows it. Oil negates suction completely. No the oil won't just go in his stomach and nothing happens, this isn't regular oil, get that through your head. Who said anything about Baku dying, the point of the oil is to counteract the suction, not kill him. Once it's mouth is all sticky and stuck together, it's useless. What I have basically gotten from your posts is that Baku solos Minato :hmm:. Really, a space time ninjutsu user and the fastest shinobi of his time is getting solo's by that thing. Thought you were better than this to be honest. The rest of your Baku nonsense isn't worth replying to.

Abundantly accepted :lol: first I've heard. Show me the Hiraishin mark then. So he teleported to the village, then jumped several hundred meters above kurama and performed the summoning :lol:. You are reaching so badly. The size of the tbb in kurama said mouth hadn't even grown at all from the time Minato was on the hokage face, to the time he slammed Bunta on top of him. Literally no time had passed.
No I'm not going to show you a scan, you show me FCD being used from above and then we'll talk. Databook says the strength varies between users. How can it vary when the strength is determined by how high the toad falls from? Databook states the fall can occur from several hundred meters, how does a ninja on the ground jump several hundred meters into the air every time they want to use this technique :|. Databook says jiraya performed the summon instantly above the target, so what I've said comes directly from the Databook. Databook lists the jutsu as all ranges, which Minato showed. And Food cart destroyer IS a space time ninjutsu because it is a type of summoning jutsu smh. FCD is a B rank ninjutsu, if all it required was for the user to get above the target, then that is no different from the summoning jutsu, which is C rank. There's a reason the two techniques differ, why FCD is more difficult to learn.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

No you did not just say Baku is 10x the size of Bunta? WTF?! Did you really just use sasukes v3 susanoo a measuring stone here

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That version of susanoo is roughly 3x the height of Sasuke. How small do you think Gamabunta is?

Also what does size have to do with anything here? When Bunta already pinned down 100% kurama, are you trying to say Baku is remotely anywhere near as strong as 100% kurama or as durable?

Are stones and trees sticky? No they are not, so why are you even mentioning it. Bakus suction turns those things into debris. Oil is liquid, Baku isn't reducing what Bunta fires at him. And this is massive volumes of oil that Bunta can spit, larger than the amount of Fire sasuke could fire.

Minato literally blitzed kurama from several hundred meters away with FCD. I can't even fathom how you'd think Baku would be a problem.

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. Also who told you food cart destroyer requires et user to get above the target? When has it even been shown that the summoner needed to get above the target? "The strength of the fall varies depending on the caster. In the case of someone like Jiraiya from the Sannin, the summon can be performed in an instant right above the target, further adding the great gravitational force of a good several hundred meters high dive to the Toad's own weight!!"

Gold Lightning. While you just bodied Apêx I'd like to point out that it wasn't just "several hundred meters" it was the entirety of konoha plus it's outskirts.

 

[Narutimate Storm]

So Mifune who is no where near fast as Yellow Flash, can blitz Hanzo to stop him from forming seals.

Spoiler

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Yet somehow these two old geezer can react to Minato? Minatos clone will solo hiruzen while the real one blitzes danzo 10x over.

Those saying minato need to activate sensing lol. He was distracted, just like what kurama say. Even kurama who is acute sensor was distracted. When minato first get summon by oro, first thing he sense is naruto, without having to activate sensor. People never talk crap about tobirama sensor or him needing to go sensor mode and crap, despite him having basically same sensory ability. When he revive, he did not sense hashirama cells on orochimaru. And he sensed madara at same time minato sensed naruto.

Izanagi sneak attacks are uselss, minato already react and anticipate obito blind side attack while he was not even aware. Danzo is fodder compared to obito.

XD Bunta carves his name into Baku body and mutilates it.

 

[KCN]

So here's what I got from this thread;

- Minato can't react to Danzo's izanagi (my favourite one)
- These two pensioners are able to not only counter FTG but react to it
- Baku solos Minato

No point in even saying anything is there.

 

[Apêx1]

Baku isn't larger than Bunta, so keep your exaggerations to yourself. Bunta kept Kurama at bay and was able to fight shukaku, even slicing off one of his arms with his blade. Bunta is a powerhouse. If you really think Baku can even hold a candle to the boss toad, then you need help.

Why do I need to explain the implications of sticky oil? Don't you have common sense? If that goes inside his mouth, it clogs not only the inside, making suction impossible, it also clogs everything else further down if he swallows it. Oil negates suction completely. No the oil won't just go in his stomach and nothing happens, this isn't regular oil, get that through your head. Who said anything about Baku dying, the point of the oil is to counteract the suction, not kill him. Once it's mouth is all sticky and stuck together, it's useless. What I have basically gotten from your posts is that Baku solos Minato :hmm:. Really, a space time ninjutsu user and the fastest shinobi of his time is getting solo's by that thing. Thought you were better than this to be honest. The rest of your Baku nonsense isn't worth replying to.

Abundantly accepted :lol: first I've heard. Show me the Hiraishin mark then. So he teleported to the village, then jumped several hundred meters above kurama and performed the summoning :lol:. You are reaching so badly. The size of the tbb in kurama said mouth hadn't even grown at all from the time Minato was on the hokage face, to the time he slammed Bunta on top of him. Literally no time had passed.
No I'm not going to show you a scan, you show me FCD being used from above and then we'll talk. Databook says the strength varies between users. How can it vary when the strength is determined by how high the toad falls from? Databook states the fall can occur from several hundred meters, how does a ninja on the ground jump several hundred meters into the air every time they want to use this technique :|. Databook says jiraya performed the summon instantly above the target, so what I've said comes directly from the Databook. Databook lists the jutsu as all ranges, which Minato showed. And Food cart destroyer IS a space time ninjutsu because it is a type of summoning jutsu smh. FCD is a B rank ninjutsu, if all it required was for the user to get above the target, then that is no different from the summoning jutsu, which is C rank. There's a reason the two techniques differ, why FCD is more difficult to learn.

Ok Bunta=Baku. Doesn't change my point.

-Baku sucks everything into his stomach. I fail to see how it will clog his mouth. Please explain why it won't just enter his stomach like everything else does. And something more then "it's sticky" as that still doesn't hold. Elaborate. Still lol'ing at 'stuck together'. I can't believe you think it's that sticky and touch, but you'll need to substantiate 'closing his mouth' because Oil is nowhere near that sticky or heavy.

-Bad match-up is all I can say. Obviously Manga wise Minato would smash that shit no diff. But this is a discussion of feats and implicative feats. And based on those I see no way in which Minato counters it.

-I obviously can't show you the Hirashin mark so that's not a counter-argument. Can you show me him shunshin'ing there? Nope, so it goes both ways. And again, you're proving my point. No time had passed. He shunshin'd that whole distance instantly? Nope, because Shunshin is a short burst of movement. He would've Hirashin'd to something very close and then shunshin'd atop of it.

-If Minato is at ground level. He uses summoning jutsu and then he is suddenly above Gamabunta 200 meters in the air. It is S/T, and it's an unsubstantiated claim as there's literally nothing to prove that FCD is S/T. Nothing at all. I used to think that it was S/T until someone told me to prove it. And it's impossible to prove it, because there's no instance of anyone doing it in the way you are suggesting. You are appealing to ignorance when you tell me to show you the scan. I am suggesting it is not S/T. You suggest it is. For you to make such an assertion you need a basis for your claim. Prove it or your argument has no viable conclusion. And lol, Jiraiya used it from above a snake, so he's one example of it being used from a high altitude. And FCD is a S/T as is every other summoning. But in this case the user is teleporting as well.

 

[NarutoX28]

While Minato's not as fast as people say he is (IMO), he honestly has the capabilities of countering Danzo's Izanagi.

- While Minato does not have access to active sensing, he is capable of effectively evading Izanagi's blindside attempts with FTG considering that's his main go-to against any high level ninja. This means that as long as he can process Danzo's presence behind him, he can simply form one simple mental reaction (considering Danzo himself isn't incredibly fast) and counter with Hiraishin.

- Minato is overall physically superior to MS Sasuke who was immensely fatigued from the drawbacks of both Susano'o and Amaterasu. Danzo's best feat was tagging MS Sasuke, but he was fatigued from overusage of Susano'o along with Amaterasu as Obito stated. What hurts Danzo the most here is that MS Sasuke still struck simultaneously during that attempt indicating that Danzo is only as reflexive as a Fatigued MS Sasuke and the only reason Danzo had done so in the first place was to take advantage of Izanagi. Hebi Sasuke alone would have no trouble reacting to Danzo let alone Minato who's far superior to those 2 incarnations of Sasuke physically.

- Danzo's Futon simply won't work when it requires multiple seals to do so along with Minato's FTG or Shunshin which was actually fast enough for him to reach Kushina (via FTG) and simply Shunshin'd both rescue Kushina and evade Kurama's strike which SM Naruto conceded to be fast against a weaker incarnation of that Kurama and that same guy is certainly within the level of evading FRS fairly easily which shits on Danzo's Futon in terms of speed.

- Baku is simply countered by Food Carter Destroyer and the fact that Gamabunta is overall superior to Baku. Gamabunta simply spits Massive Suiton into Baku's Air Suction which countered Shikaku's Forest Busting Futon (for the most part). Gamabunta is also physically superior as it's a Bijuu-Sized Summon that has adept Kenjutsu and strength that could subdue 100% Kurama physically while Minato took a minute to gather chakra to warp both Kurama and his Bijuudama outside of the village.

- And simply put, because Minato is physically superior to Danzo, any CQC attempt is hard-countered and Minato's massive reserves (that allowed him to use SM in the first place) allows him to simply outlast Danzo's Izanagi.

Minato in a 1v1 confrontation against Danzo should take this. However, I'm not sure how Minato deals with the fact that he has to worry about Hiruzen as well.

 

[Lariatoo]

I honestly see this going either way with a base Minato.
The Namikaze is obviously the stronger of the three, but the other two are two powerhouses who know each other for sixty years, so I see some great teamwork

 

[Chīkara]

Both Hiruzen and Danzo are none factors. Its basically Monkey King Enma and Baku vs Minato.

Minato negs.

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[Bantos]

Minato loses as he has no intel on izanagi.
Also Minato's only sealing jutsu in canon is shiki fuujin, which kills him in process.

 

[-immortal-]

I believe hiruzen and danzo have a chance of winning

 

[Gold Lightning]

Ok Bunta=Baku. Doesn't change my point.

-Baku sucks everything into his stomach. I fail to see how it will clog his mouth. Please explain why it won't just enter his stomach like everything else does. And something more then "it's sticky" as that still doesn't hold. Elaborate. Still lol'ing at 'stuck together'. I can't believe you think it's that sticky and touch, but you'll need to substantiate 'closing his mouth' because Oil is nowhere near that sticky or heavy.

-Bad match-up is all I can say. Obviously Manga wise Minato would smash that shit no diff. But this is a discussion of feats and implicative feats. And based on those I see no way in which Minato counters it.

-I obviously can't show you the Hirashin mark so that's not a counter-argument. Can you show me him shunshin'ing there? Nope, so it goes both ways. And again, you're proving my point. No time had passed. He shunshin'd that whole distance instantly? Nope, because Shunshin is a short burst of movement. He would've Hirashin'd to something very close and then shunshin'd atop of it.

-If Minato is at ground level. He uses summoning jutsu and then he is suddenly above Gamabunta 200 meters in the air. It is S/T, and it's an unsubstantiated claim as there's literally nothing to prove that FCD is S/T. Nothing at all. I used to think that it was S/T until someone told me to prove it. And it's impossible to prove it, because there's no instance of anyone doing it in the way you are suggesting. You are appealing to ignorance when you tell me to show you the scan. I am suggesting it is not S/T. You suggest it is. For you to make such an assertion you need a basis for your claim. Prove it or your argument has no viable conclusion. And lol, Jiraiya used it from above a snake, so he's one example of it being used from a high altitude. And FCD is a S/T as is every other summoning. But in this case the user is teleporting as well.

Do you even know what you're talking about? First you said Baku is much larger than Bunta, then you say ok I exaggerated but bakus is still bigger, now Baku is the same size as Bunta. This is why konohas copy ninja is going to stomp you in the Minato vs kisame debate, you're just all over the place. The fact you even mention Baku in the first place is worrying, you obviously have no idea who Gamabunta is. He's the strongest damn toad of Mount Myoboku (after the toad sages), he keeps the rest of the toads in line. He's faced against not one, but TWO BIJUU!! He was going head to head with Shukaku, slicing off his arm, avoiding his wind blasts with his superior agility, and his water gun shots were stalemating shukakus wind bullets in power. For some reason you think size is a factor :| Bunta had 100% kurama pinned to the ground, unable to move, despite kurama being way larger than him. Then we see Bunta manhandling Pains rinnegan summons with ease. Yet you are trying to bring up some fodder summon that got one shouted by sasuke, to say he can go toe to toe with Gamabunta. In addition to that, you have indirectly said Baku solos Minato. At that point, all your credibility is gone, I don't know what you're smoking. Minato has already dealt with the likes of Kurama, yet he can't handle with Baku? Be honest, you're trolling right! You must.

You know what, just forget the oil point. Because it seems like you are deliberately acting dumb. I've already explained what the oil does, other people understand and agree, not sure why it's hard for you to comprehend, I'm not gonna try to break it down for you any further. I never intended for this one point to drag on like this, it was just one way Bunta deals with Baku. When in actually, Bunta just Rams his sword up that overgrown elephants ass and negs him. Baku isn't a factor, so drop it. @Bold, what you have stated here is so laughable and ridiculous, it isn't even worth a response.

Shunshin is not a short burst, keep talking from your ass. "The amount of chakra used up differs depending on the distance and elevation of their stopping point in comparison to the starting point." The distance depends on the amount of chakra used, as stated in the Databook. There is nothing in the Databook that classifies it as short ranged. Shunshin depends on the skill of the user, something Minato was regarded as incredibly skilled at. And what is this thing Minato hiraishined to very close? What is it that Minato got on top which elevated him several hundred meters above kurama? You've literally just made all that up. Using Shunshin would be much faster than the crap you've just pulled from your ass. All of which could not have happened in that short time span. The panels show literally no time has passed from the panel Minato was on the statue, to when the summon is made.

This is becoming tiresome. Kushiyose/Summoning jutsu IS a Space Time Ninjutsu, the whole concept of the Flying Thunder God is described as a summoning jutsu, it makes the comparison in the freaking Databook. Therefore food cart destroyer is basically a space time ninjutsu. The full name of the technique is called "Kushiyose: Yatai Kuzushi no Jutsu". Kushiyose = Summoning jutsu = Space Time ninjutsu. Why do I need basis of my claim when the Databook has already reiterated how it works. Let me spell it out for you, the strength of the technique varies between users. Now here's the important part from the Databook: In the case of someone like Jiraiya from the Sannin, the summon can be performed in an instant right above the target. "CAN BE PERFORMED IN AN INSTANT RIGHT ABOVE THE TARGET". It says it right there, if you have the skill of someone like jiraya, you can instantly just summon a toad directly above the target. Why do you think it says in the case of someone like jiraya? It says that because others would probably have to get above the target to perform this technique, but not jiraya and not Minato. They can just summon a toad directly above the target, it's not that hard to understand. This technique has been used 3 times in the manga, and it always hit its target, no matter their size, not once were the user ever shown to need to get high enough to use the technique.

 

[Worm]

The better written character wins.

In other words, Minato loses 10 out of 10 times. Every time.

 

[Apêx1]

Do you even know what you're talking about? First you said Baku is much larger than Bunta, then you say ok I exaggerated but bakus is still bigger, now Baku is the same size as Bunta. This is why konohas copy ninja is going to stomp you in the Minato vs kisame debate, you're just all over the place. The fact you even mention Baku in the first place is worrying, you obviously have no idea who Gamabunta is. He's the strongest damn toad of Mount Myoboku (after the toad sages), he keeps the rest of the toads in line. He's faced against not one, but TWO BIJUU!! He was going head to head with Shukaku, slicing off his arm, avoiding his wind blasts with his superior agility, and his water gun shots were stalemating shukakus wind bullets in power. For some reason you think size is a factor :| Bunta had 100% kurama pinned to the ground, unable to move, despite kurama being way larger than him. Then we see Bunta manhandling Pains rinnegan summons with ease. Yet you are trying to bring up some fodder summon that got one shouted by sasuke, to say he can go toe to toe with Gamabunta. In addition to that, you have indirectly said Baku solos Minato. At that point, all your credibility is gone, I don't know what you're smoking. Minato has already dealt with the likes of Kurama, yet he can't handle with Baku? Be honest, you're trolling right! You must.

You know what, just forget the oil point. Because it seems like you are deliberately acting dumb. I've already explained what the oil does, other people understand and agree, not sure why it's hard for you to comprehend, I'm not gonna try to break it down for you any further. I never intended for this one point to drag on like this, it was just one way Bunta deals with Baku. When in actually, Bunta just Rams his sword up that overgrown elephants ass and negs him. Baku isn't a factor, so drop it. @Bold, what you have stated here is so laughable and ridiculous, it isn't even worth a response.

Shunshin is not a short burst, keep talking from your ass. "The amount of chakra used up differs depending on the distance and elevation of their stopping point in comparison to the starting point." The distance depends on the amount of chakra used, as stated in the Databook. There is nothing in the Databook that classifies it as short ranged. Shunshin depends on the skill of the user, something Minato was regarded as incredibly skilled at. And what is this thing Minato hiraishined to very close? What is it that Minato got on top which elevated him several hundred meters above kurama? You've literally just made all that up. Using Shunshin would be much faster than the crap you've just pulled from your ass. All of which could not have happened in that short time span. The panels show literally no time has passed from the panel Minato was on the statue, to when the summon is made.

This is becoming tiresome. Kushiyose/Summoning jutsu IS a Space Time Ninjutsu, the whole concept of the Flying Thunder God is described as a summoning jutsu, it makes the comparison in the freaking Databook. Therefore food cart destroyer is basically a space time ninjutsu. The full name of the technique is called "Kushiyose: Yatai Kuzushi no Jutsu". Kushiyose = Summoning jutsu = Space Time ninjutsu. Why do I need basis of my claim when the Databook has already reiterated how it works. Let me spell it out for you, the strength of the technique varies between users. Now here's the important part from the Databook: In the case of someone like Jiraiya from the Sannin, the summon can be performed in an instant right above the target. "CAN BE PERFORMED IN AN INSTANT RIGHT ABOVE THE TARGET". It says it right there, if you have the skill of someone like jiraya, you can instantly just summon a toad directly above the target. Why do you think it says in the case of someone like jiraya? It says that because others would probably have to get above the target to perform this technique, but not jiraya and not Minato. They can just summon a toad directly above the target, it's not that hard to understand. This technique has been used 3 times in the manga, and it always hit its target, no matter their size, not once were the user ever shown to need to get high enough to use the technique.

You are clearly stressing too much on that point. Look, gamabunta flattens Baku if he's used onto him. Baku will be inexistent. This is what you want to hear? I told you it's completely irrelevant so I don't see why you keep writing paragraphs for it lmfao.

Once again I said it is impossible to prove it's hirashin you repeat the same shit over and over again. Shunshin is a burst of high speed. That's how it is. Make it long range, continental if you want. Doesn't change the fact that you can't prove it was a shunshin so it still stays inapplicable. So he hirashin'd and then FCD from above Kurama. NI don't think you realise the distance between kurama and Minato. None of his speed feats correlate to such speed, so why you want to attribute that sped to him is likely only as a result of your everlasting daily wanking for him.

-You cannot possibly be this retarded. Summoning jutsu is the SUMMON being TELEPORTED from another location making it S/T. The user is NOT teleporting. The summon has ALWAYS appeared rigt beneatj its user. ALWAYS. Why would KCM Naruto need to jump to use FCD?

You must be registered for see links

] So once again you are back to no argument because every summon ever had appeared right beneath its target and Naruto jumped to use it.

 

[DMT]

The better written character wins.

In other words, Minato loses 10 out of 10 times. Every time.

Danzo stomps BSM Minato, KA solos

 

[BLAZE]

Minto mid different at most

 

[Oblivionx]

this thread is actually pretty funny...! Baku being a factor... danzo & hiruzen reacting to minato's shunshin let alone ftg...! danzo tagging minato and whatnot...! XD

OT: minato wins mid diff...