Minato + Hashirama VS Edo Madara

[Watatsumi]

Okay this is gonna be a drag to explain everything to a dim-witted person but I'll give it a try...give me some time and post some thing in between because i don't want to double post.

Dim witted?
Call me whatever you want, I couldn't care less.
I'd like to see you try reasoning, it'll be fun.

One more thing, If you are going to post nonsense like you did in your
"Healthy orochimaru beats Itachi" and "Naruto can solo the Uchiha clan including Madara and Itachi" threads, don't bother.Reading stuff like that will be a waste of my time.

 

[Minator93]

People seem to think that Hashirama + Minato combo can kill Madara, just because Hashirama managed to beat him at the final valley.

This time Hashi and Minato have the upperhand because its 2 vs 1 + Hashi has the Info on Madara.

This is very unlikely, however, considering that Madara now has the Rinnegan.

Kakashi was able to figure out Rinnegan Techs here we have 2 of the most feared Kages of all time with one of them as a SP/TM user, so they can Figure it out as well.

Madara is also an Edo, which means that he can't be defeated unless he is sealed.

Minato was handing down seals,like a small kid does with chocolates at his b'day, when last we saw him.

Wood Release:
Hashirama has it, so does Madara.

This means that Madara can use earth style, water style and fire style.
If rinnegan users can use all 5 elements, it means that Madara can use them as well.

Hashirama can use wood style, earth style, and water style.

Minato : We don't know what style he has, it's probably wind.

Ninjutsu doesn't work on Madara, he can absorb it using his Preta Path.

Hashirama's Wood Prowess >> Madara's Wood Prowess Period.

Plus he knows every wood jutsu out their so he can tell Minato about its weakness and Counters.

We've also seen the raikage hitting Madara on more than one occassion so Minato can pull off the same thing, but Raikage couldn't do much more after wards, Minato however can Mark the Bastard and thus allowing him to perform other Seals so as to break Madara's Momentum and sealing the bastard.

EMS:
Madara can use Amaterasu, Susanoo, Yasaka's Magatama and maybe Tsukuyomi (He needs Tsukuyomi in order to awaken Susanoo).

Minato can use FTG to escape, but he can't do that if all the kunai in the vicinity have been repelled by Madara's Shinra tensei.

If Madara uses his complete susanoo, Minato and Madara will have a hard time trying to hit him.

What gave you this Idea Madara for a fact doesn't have Amaterasu or Yasaka's Magatama or Tsukuyomi...these attacks belong to Itachi....further you need MS in both eyes in order to activate Susanoo and it need not ot be Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi...bah what a drag.

I'll prove to you how Minato can produce More Kunais even if loses to Kunais he's brought with himself.

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Rinnegan:

Deva path:
Minato can't touch Madara if all his ftg kunai have been repelled away from the area by shinra tensei.

Madara can also attract Minato and Hashirama towards himself, and then use any of his attacks to finish them off.

Animal Path:
Madara can summon various rinnegan summonings to combat Minato's toads.

Preta path:
Absorbs Ninjutsu.This means that wood release, rasengan and other ninjutsu won't work on Madara.

Asura path:
Can use missiles, mechanical armor and has a very strong grip.

Naraka path:
If you get caught, it takes your soul.

Asteroid jutsu:
Madara can use this to bring down huge meteors.
Minato and Hashirama do not have any efficient defences to guard themselves against this.

Taijutsu:
No point in explaining.

Sage Mode:
Minato doesn't have sage mode.

Chibaku Tensei:
Hashirama and Minato can't escape from it's powerful gravitational pull.
FTG won't help Minato, as his kunai would also get attracted by CT.

Thanks for the Rinneagan lesson...I guess everyone knows how it works and they know much better than you....but to summarise Madara doesn't have paths like Nagato he's basically like the Nagato that we last law...that limits the Rinnegan's Vision and the ability to perform all attacks from a different locations at the same time...which it self nerfs the Rinnegan user....Nagato was OP'd because of the Paths he had.

You Mentioned Asteroid Jutsu which leaves Madara vulnarable but the Kages on the other hand thanks to Minato's SP/TM have it much more easy...when Madara is recuperating form this self destrcution Minato can seal him at that Instant.

Reaper death seal:
Minato's only chance of sealing Madara.It can't be used if Madara doesn't allow Minato to get near him (Guards himself with susanoo, uses Deva path's repelling technique to repel Minato's kunai away from him).
Besides that, Minato dies if he uses this technique.

Give it a rest Minato can teleport other people if get's a hold of them in an instant. After Madara is marked he can go inisde of the Susanoo then teleport the bastard to a longer distance thus ending the usage of Susanoo forever...after that he can go back and bring Hashi...and that too in a flash.

Further he he desides to use the RDS then he'll Make saure hashi has restained Madara....plus you seem to have completely forgotten abou 5 sec Interval...which is very crucial.

Sharingan:
The sharingan can see through genjutsu, track movements, copy techniques, and do other things.

Like hell he's gonna copy Minato's Rasengan or Hashi's Wood Jutsus its a KKG...and Further do you think that he'll use this shit....he'll be forced to go with Susanoo + Rinneagan from the moment the match starts.

That settles it, Hashirama and Minato don't stand a chance.
Madara wins easily.

This Settles you are a blind uchiha or at least Madara Fanboy.

Also the fight would start in a complete different Manner ie Hashi as the frontline warrior engaging Madara while Minato attacks form the back seals,spams FTG...plan the strategy figure out the weaknesses.

Their are so many Possibilites when you combine Hashi and Minato...I mean this team is Godlike.

 

[ajpn920]

A possible Minato affinity:
YIN YANG = based on FTG/ ST jutsu
Earth = having the jutsu that can tell the presence of an enemy by touching the ground...GROUND=EARTH
Wind= trying to stab A using a kunai when A was using lightning shroud..only wind is greater than lightning. Minato was a shrewd person according to jiraiya..supported by tsunade here:

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"The man never made a wasted moment"--tsunade..what does this mean? Let's go back to his fight against TOBI. Why waste his time looking at the eyes of a sharingan user? Do you believe that he doesn't know about the UCHIHA? How was he able to conclude that TOBI is MADARA? By the way, Minato's hobby was reading and all Hokages have access to the secret scroll made by Hashirama...get the point?

Now, how can Madara hurt Minato and Hashirama? Take a look at this:

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What does an unrivalled strength means? trying to argue against Kishi? Then make your own series.

 

[Ambriel]

A possible Minato affinity:
YING YANG = based on FTG/ ST jutsu
Earth = having the jutsu that can tell the presence of an enemy by touching the ground...GROUND=EARTH
Wind= trying to stab A using a kunai when A was using lightning shroud..only wind is greater than lightning. Minato was a shrewd person according to jiraiya..supported by tsunade here:

You must be registered for see links

"The man never made a wasted moment"--tsunade..what does this mean? Let's go back to his fight against TOBI. Why waste his time looking at the eyes of a sharingan user? Do you believe that he doesn't know about the UCHIHA? Why conclude that TOBI is MADARA? By the way, Minato's hobby was reading and all Hokages have access to the secret scroll made by Hashirama...get the point?

Now, how can Madara hurt Minato and Hashirama? Take a look at this:

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What does an unrivalled strength means? trying to argue against Kishi? Then make your own series.

I agree ajp

 

[Blaze Release]

We havent seen enough of all three characters, but going by what we have seen its clear that edo madara's power alone puts him at #2, behind tobi. Its also clear that even if you combine the powers of hashirama and minato, madara is still superior. This is just looking at the power scale though.

I do believe that hashirama and minato has a chance to win with extreme high difficulty and possibly one dying and the other being severly hurt, but the chances of them losing is greater. Therefore madara wins

 

[Better]

We havent seen enough of all three characters, but going by what we have seen its clear that edo madara's power alone puts him at #2, behind tobi. Its also clear that even if you combine the powers of hashirama and minato, madara is still superior. This is just looking at the power scale though.

I do believe that hashirama and minato has a chance to win with extreme high difficulty and possibly one dying and the other being severly hurt, but the chances of them losing is greater. Therefore madara wins

puts Kabuto at #2*

 

[Lord Snow]

The hokages will lose badly.

 

[Blaze Release]

puts Kabuto at #2*

When i say madara i mean kabuto since its his summon.

 

[Better]

When i say madara i mean kabuto since its his summon.

i know lol

 

[Wakizashi]

the hokages both have a special talent about them so that would be something that would probably overpower madara or at least end it in a draw.

 

[ajpn920]

The hokages will lose badly.

Care to explain?

 

[Minator93]

A possible Minato affinity:
YIN YANG = based on FTG/ ST jutsu
Earth = having the jutsu that can tell the presence of an enemy by touching the ground...GROUND=EARTH
Wind= trying to stab A using a kunai when A was using lightning shroud..only wind is greater than lightning. Minato was a shrewd person according to jiraiya..supported by tsunade here:

You must be registered for see links

"The man never made a wasted moment"--tsunade..what does this mean? Let's go back to his fight against TOBI. Why waste his time looking at the eyes of a sharingan user? Do you believe that he doesn't know about the UCHIHA? How was he able to conclude that TOBI is MADARA? By the way, Minato's hobby was reading and all Hokages have access to the secret scroll made by Hashirama...get the point?

Now, how can Madara hurt Minato and Hashirama? Take a look at this:

You must be registered for see links

What does an unrivalled strength means? trying to argue against Kishi? Then make your own series.

yup that's right.

 

[Azztang]

Im going with hokages with diffuculty because hashirma and madara fought when he was still alive and they drew all the time untill nine tails fox came around and fought them...so with the help of minatos sealing justus they will win.

And peopel saying madara has wood realease are idoits because tobi has it not madara....tobi got it from yamato a relitive of the first hokage....madara was dead before he got his hands on hashiramas DNA.

 

[Watatsumi]

@Minator93:
Sorry for the delay.It looks like we live in different time zones, and so, it may take some time for me to reply.Please bear with it.
Anyway, here it is:

This time Hashi and Minato have the upperhand because its 2 vs 1 + Hashi has the Info on Madara.

Hashirama doesn't know anything about Madara's rinnegan.Even if he did, he can't take on the rinnegan and EMS with his wood jutsu.

You can't say that Hashirama and Minato have the upper hand just because its 2 against 1.In case you didn't notice, Madara is taking on the five Kages by himself.

Madara not only has info on Hashirama, but he also has knowledge of Hashirama's techniques.He even has Hashirama's DNA and his Mokuton.

Hashirama couldn't even defeat Madara when he had his EMS.The truth is that Madara lost on purpose, so that he could gain access to Madara's abilities.

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Kakashi was able to figure out Rinnegan Techs here we have 2 of the most feared Kages of all time with one of them as a SP/TM user, so they can Figure it out as well.

Kakashi was able to figure the abilities of Deva path, but what happened in the end? He took help from Choza and somehow managed to kill pein's Asura path, killing himself in the process.

Madara already knows about Hashirama's techniques, and he is smart enough to gather info on Minato's FTG.

Minato was handing down seals,like a small kid does with chocolates at his b'day, when last we saw him.

Since when did Minato start handing seals down like chocolates?

The only sealing technique that Minato can use is his Reaper death seal.If he has ever used any other sealing techniques, or if the manga states anywhere that he has mastered Fuinjutsu, link me to it.

If Minato could use any other sealing techniques, why did he use the reaper death seal in order to seal Kurama within Naruto? He could have done that with other sealing techniques of his.

Also remember that Minato is a Namikaze, and not an Uzumaki.

Hashirama's Wood Prowess >> Madara's Wood Prowess Period.

Maybe, maybe not.

Plus he knows every wood jutsu out their so he can tell Minato about its weakness and Counters.

Hashirama isn't the only one with wood jutsu, Madara can also use it.He also knows everything about it's weaknesses and counters.In other words, Madara knows everything about Hashirama's Mokuton.In addition to this, Madara can also use all the five elements, and this is an ability which he acquired from his Rinnegan.

We've also seen the raikage hitting Madara on more than one occassion so Minato can pull off the same thing, but Raikage couldn't do much more after wards, Minato however can Mark the Bastard and thus allowing him to perform other Seals so as to break Madara's Momentum and sealing the bastard.

The Raikage managed to hit Madara only because Madara's susanoo was incomplete.If he uses his complete susanoo, I don't see how any of Minato's attacks can land on him.As for Minato's seals, he doesn't have any other than RDS.He dies when he uses this. Minato's kunai can be repelled by Madara's shinra tensei, meaning that he can't easily get close to Madara.

What gave you this Idea Madara for a fact doesn't have Amaterasu or Yasaka's Magatama or Tsukuyomi...these attacks belong to Itachi....further you need MS in both eyes in order to activate Susanoo and it need not ot be Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi...bah what a drag.

Seriously, which manga are you reading?
Madara has Yasaka's Magatama and he used it while fighting Gaara and Oonoki.

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Please note that its a lot stronger than Itachi's Yasaka's Magatama, and that Madara can throw six at a time.

Madara talks about the Infinite Tsukuyomi, thus hinting at the possibility that he can use Tsukuyomi.

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Madara also has EMS in both eyes of his.

Where in the world has it been stated that these attacks belong to Itachi?Sasuke could also use them, and so can Madara.They belong to the Mangekyo sharingan, and not to any individual person.

Amaterasu and Susanoo are required in order to activate Susanoo, and that is why it is called the third power.

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Madara's other Genjutsu:
Madara has one more genjutsu that he used against the sword guy.If Minato gets caught in this, he won't be able to move, and Madara can eliminate him.

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Madara controlled the Fourth Mizukage, Yagura with his Sharingan.If he does the same thing to Minato, Minato has no hope of surviving.

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Izanagi:
Madara has the powers of both Senju and Uchiha, and there is a strong possibility that he can use Izanagi.

I'll prove to you how Minato can produce More Kunais even if loses to Kunais he's brought with himself.

You must be registered for see links

I must admit, this makes some sense.He may be teleport to his place and get more kunai, but what's the point?

Thanks for the Rinneagan lesson...I guess everyone knows how it works and they know much better than you....but to summarise Madara doesn't have paths like Nagato he's basically like the Nagato that we last law...that limits the Rinnegan's Vision and the ability to perform all attacks from a different locations at the same time...which it self nerfs the Rinnegan user....Nagato was OP'd because of the Paths he had.

It looks like the Rinnegan lesson didn't go into your head....lol.

If all the six paths are in one being, the user becomes much more stronger than when they are in different corpses.

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Rinnegan's field of vision?
Madara can increase it by summoning his rinnegan animals.

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It looks like you ignored the part about Chibaku Tensei, I thought you'd do that.

If Madara uses Chibaku Tensei, I don't see how Minato can get away from it's pull, as his FTG kunai will be flying towards it's core.This means that FTG can't help him.

You Mentioned Asteroid Jutsu which leaves Madara vulnarable but the Kages on the other hand thanks to Minato's SP/TM have it much more easy...when Madara is recuperating form this self destrcution Minato can seal him at that Instant.

The five Kages managed to survive Madara's Asteroid only because Oonoki made it light.Once again, you speak of Minato's non-existent sealing prowess.
Minato can teleport himself and Hashirama away from the battlefield, though.

Give it a rest Minato can teleport other people if get's a hold of them in an instant. After Madara is marked he can go inisde of the Susanoo then teleport the bastard to a longer distance thus ending the usage of Susanoo forever...after that he can go back and bring Hashi...and that too in a flash.

He can't mark Madara if he can't get past Madara's complete susanoo.Even if he somehow manages to mark Madara, he can't seal him off without dying in the process.Also note that Madara can trade hits with Minato when Minato tries to attack or "seal" Madara.

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On what basis are you saying that teleporting Madara ends the usage of his Susanoo forever? Show me links or scans.

Further he he desides to use the RDS then he'll Make saure hashi has restained Madara....plus you seem to have completely forgotten abou 5 sec Interval...which is very crucial.

Hashirama cannot restrain Madara, Madara can just repel him away.

5 second interval:
Do you know how much time it requires for Minato to use RDS? Definitely more than 5 seconds.Look at Hiruzen and you'll understand.

RDS counter:
Let's assume that Minato somehow manages to mark Madara and use the reaper death seal on him.Minato will die, and Madara can simply undo his own death with Izanagi.

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He can then finish Hashirama off with one Rinnegan and EMS.

Like hell he's gonna copy Minato's Rasengan or Hashi's Wood Jutsus its a KKG...and Further do you think that he'll use this shit....he'll be forced to go with Susanoo + Rinneagan from the moment the match starts.

Don't underestimate the sharingan. Madara managed to control Yagura, who was a perfect Jinchuuriki, with his Sharingan.He also controlled the nine tails with it, and that is something that Minato can't do.

This Settles you are a blind uchiha or at least Madara Fanboy.

I'm an Uchiha fan, not a fanboy.
You, on the other hand, are a Minato fanboy, and you overrate him like hell.

Also the fight would start in a complete different Manner ie Hashi as the frontline warrior engaging Madara while Minato attacks form the back seals,spams FTG...plan the strategy figure out the weaknesses.

Their are so many Possibilites when you combine Hashi and Minato...I mean this team is Godlike.

The tag team is very strong, I agree, but Edo Madara is on another level.

Anyway, I'll be waiting for your answer on how Minato counters all these things, Good day.

 

[Shisui Namikaze]

Two of the strongest shinobi to ever fckin live vs one of the strongest shinobi to ever live. Are you guys serious? Hashirama best him by himself. With minato it wouldn't be fair. The guys that say madara will own are retarded.

 

[Azztang]

@Minator93:
Sorry for the delay.It looks like we live in different time zones, and so, it may take some time for me to reply.Please bear with it.
Anyway, here it is:



Hashirama doesn't know anything about Madara's rinnegan.Even if he did, he can't take on the rinnegan and EMS with his wood jutsu.

You can't say that Hashirama and Minato have the upper hand just because its 2 against 1.In case you didn't notice, Madara is taking on the five Kages by himself.

Madara not only has info on Hashirama, but he also has knowledge of Hashirama's techniques.He even has Hashirama's DNA and his Mokuton.

Hashirama couldn't even defeat Madara when he had his EMS.The truth is that Madara lost on purpose, so that he could gain access to Madara's abilities.

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Kakashi was able to figure the abilities of Deva path, but what happened in the end? He took help from Choza and somehow managed to kill pein's Asura path, killing himself in the process.

Madara already knows about Hashirama's techniques, and he is smart enough to gather info on Minato's FTG.



Since when did Minato start handing seals down like chocolates?

The only sealing technique that Minato can use is his Reaper death seal.If he has ever used any other sealing techniques, or if the manga states anywhere that he has mastered Fuinjutsu, link me to it.

If Minato could use any other sealing techniques, why did he use the reaper death seal in order to seal Kurama within Naruto? He could have done that with other sealing techniques of his.

Also remember that Minato is a Namikaze, and not an Uzumaki.


Maybe, maybe not.



Hashirama isn't the only one with wood jutsu, Madara can also use it.He also knows everything about it's weaknesses and counters.In other words, Madara knows everything about Hashirama's Mokuton.In addition to this, Madara can also use all the five elements, and this is an ability which he acquired from his Rinnegan.



The Raikage managed to hit Madara only because Madara's susanoo was incomplete.If he uses his complete susanoo, I don't see how any of Minato's attacks can land on him.As for Minato's seals, he doesn't have any other than RDS.He dies when he uses this. Minato's kunai can be repelled by Madara's shinra tensei, meaning that he can't easily get close to Madara.



Seriously, which manga are you reading?
Madara has Yasaka's Magatama and he used it while fighting Gaara and Oonoki.

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Please note that its a lot stronger than Itachi's Yasaka's Magatama, and that Madara can throw six at a time.

Madara talks about the Infinite Tsukuyomi, thus hinting at the possibility that he can use Tsukuyomi.

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Madara also has EMS in both eyes of his.

Where in the world has it been stated that these attacks belong to Itachi?Sasuke could also use them, and so can Madara.They belong to the Mangekyo sharingan, and not to any individual person.

Amaterasu and Susanoo are required in order to activate Susanoo, and that is why it is called the third power.

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Madara's other Genjutsu:
Madara has one more genjutsu that he used against the sword guy.If Minato gets caught in this, he won't be able to move, and Madara can eliminate him.

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Madara controlled the Fourth Mizukage, Yagura with his Sharingan.If he does the same thing to Minato, Minato has no hope of surviving.

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Izanagi:
Madara has the powers of both Senju and Uchiha, and there is a strong possibility that he can use Izanagi.



I must admit, this makes some sense.He may be teleport to his place and get more kunai, but what's the point?



It looks like the Rinnegan lesson didn't go into your head....lol.

If all the six paths are in one being, the user becomes much more stronger than when they are in different corpses.

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Rinnegan's field of vision?
Madara can increase it by summoning his rinnegan animals.

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It looks like you ignored the part about Chibaku Tensei, I thought you'd do that.

If Madara uses Chibaku Tensei, I don't see how Minato can get away from it's pull, as his FTG kunai will be flying towards it's core.This means that FTG can't help him.



The five Kages managed to survive Madara's Asteroid only because Oonoki made it light.Once again, you speak of Minato's non-existent sealing prowess.
Minato can teleport himself and Hashirama away from the battlefield, though.



He can't mark Madara if he can't get past Madara's complete susanoo.Even if he somehow manages to mark Madara, he can't seal him off without dying in the process.Also note that Madara can trade hits with Minato when Minato tries to attack or "seal" Madara.

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On what basis are you saying that teleporting Madara ends the usage of his Susanoo forever? Show me links or scans.



Hashirama cannot restrain Madara, Madara can just repel him away.

5 second interval:
Do you know how much time it requires for Minato to use RDS? Definitely more than 5 seconds.Look at Hiruzen and you'll understand.

RDS counter:
Let's assume that Minato somehow manages to mark Madara and use the reaper death seal on him.Minato will die, and Madara can simply undo his own death with Izanagi.

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He can then finish Hashirama off with one Rinnegan and EMS.



Don't underestimate the sharingan. Madara managed to control Yagura, who was a perfect Jinchuuriki, with his Sharingan.He also controlled the nine tails with it, and that is something that Minato can't do.




I'm an Uchiha fan, not a fanboy.
You, on the other hand, are a Minato fanboy, and you overrate him like hell.



The tag team is very strong, I agree, but Edo Madara is on another level.

Anyway, I'll be waiting for your answer on how Minato counters all these things, Good day.

You know way to much about naruto man...get a life and find out more about the outside world.

 

[Watatsumi]

Two of the strongest shinobi to ever fckin live vs one of the strongest shinobi to ever live. Are you guys serious? Hashirama best him by himself. With minato it wouldn't be fair. The guys that say madara will own are retarded.

Minato isn't among "The strongest shinobi to have ever lived", he is just a kage who is stronger than most kages.

Hashirama didn't beat him by himself, Madara lost on purpose so that he could gain access to hashirama's abilities.

Besides that, Madara now has the Rinnegan and he has been resurrected to beyond what he was in his prime.
Don't forget that he is also an Edo.

Before you say that Madara supporters are retarded, please take a look at my post and analyze it carefully.

 

[BloodSeed]

Minato isn't among "The strongest shinobi to have ever lived", he is just a kage who is stronger than most kages.

Hashirama didn't beat him by himself, Madara lost on purpose so that he could gain access to hashirama's abilities.

Besides that, Madara now has the Rinnegan and he has been resurrected to beyond what he was in his prime.
Don't forget that he is also an Edo.

Before you say that Madara supporters are retarded, please take a look at my post and analyze it carefully.

what he isnt amongst the strongest? then who were the strongest then????? and why would lose on purpose when he can kill him and get the DNA? ur argument is lame just like the meaning of your name!

 

[Shisui Namikaze]

Minato isn't among "The strongest shinobi to have ever lived", he is just a kage who is stronger than most kages.

Hashirama didn't beat him by himself, Madara lost on purpose so that he could gain access to hashirama's abilities.

Besides that, Madara now has the Rinnegan and he has been resurrected to beyond what he was in his prime.
Don't forget that he is also an Edo.

Before you say that Madara supporters are retarded, please take a look at my post and analyze it carefully.

dude are you serious? do you read the manga? kishi has pointed out how strong minato is on numerous occasions yet you say hes not in a league with madara?

and please find the page where is says that madara lost on purpose to a man that he hated his whole life, to a man that he strive to surpass. why in the hell would he loss on purpose when his whole reason for fighting was to win. show me the page please. cause i just re read the second half of the manga today i dont remember seeing such a thing come out of madaras mouth. tobi is not madara.

 

[Watatsumi]

dude are you serious? do you read the manga? kishi has pointed out how strong minato is on numerous occasions yet you say hes not in a league with madara?

and please find the page where is says that madara lost on purpose to a man that he hated his whole life, to a man that he strive to surpass. why in the hell would he loss on purpose when his whole reason for fighting was to win. show me the page please. cause i just re read the second half of the manga today i dont remember seeing such a thing come out of madaras mouth. tobi is not madara.

Minato is strong, I admit, but comparing him to Madara would amount to overestimating him.

Madara is currently on par with the 5 kages.

He lost to Hashirama so that he could gain access to the abilities of the senju clan:

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Madara is the main antagonist of the series, not Hashirama.

@BloodSeed: The strongest character is so6p.
My username isn't my real name, and "Watatsumi" is the name given to the Japanese god of the sea.
It's a lot better than "Blood Seed" anyday.

Before you call my argument lame, please contradict all the points that I've mentioned in my post.

I really don't want to flame you, but you leave me with no other options.