[Discussion] Mihawk vs kaido

[Forbidden Tale]

Yes, they don't fall under the category of swordsmanship, but a user of such is still considered a swordsman overall. Shanks can be faster than Mihawk, or physically stronger, or have stronger Haki, that's all fine and dandy, but all that means is Mihawk is strong enough to not be defeated because of that; Mihawk has some trait that puts him above all swordsmen. Maybe his stamina is too great for swordsmen who are physically stronger than him. Maybe his skill with a sword is too great for swordsmen who are faster than him. Maybe his attacks are too overwhelmingly powerful for swordsmen with better Haki.

One Piece is in 760s chapter but it's still early to say who out of these two is better in which category. We can only say that Mihawk is better than Shanks when it comes to swordsmanship. I would say that they are pretty equal and if I had really to chose one I would say Mihawk instead of Shanks, but as I said it's really early to say who out of these two are stronger.

That makes both of them swordsman, but that makes Mihawk > Shanks in swordsmanship, who is overall stronger is just matter of opinion.

As I said by the end of series, Zoro will be Greatest swordsman, but it's pretty unlikely that he will be stronger than Law, who is also swordsman, he will just be better than him when it comes to swordsmanship.

Like I was saying earlier, maybe it's CoC that sets Shanks above Mihawk.

As I said to Riker Slade above, it's early to say who is better than who in which category.

 

[OG sama]

I'm pretty sure there's more to COC than we know. I think that the mastery over it will be what puts luffy above all others EOS. And what possibly puts Shanks above the other Yonko and maybe even Mihawk.

 

[ChrisWolf]

So is Zoro also not a swordsman anymore for learning Busoshoku Haki over the timeskip to use with his swords?

Is Sabo no longer a martial artist because he bothered to learn how to cover his body in Haki?

Shanks didn't learn to cover his sword in Haki to make up for a lack of swordsmanship skills, he did it to enhance the skills he was learning and to combat Logias. Remember that, how in order to combat Logias you need Haki? How do you know Shanks didn't learn and grow a monstrous level of skill, and then learn Haki to enhance it even further? How do you know that it's compensation and not just icing on the cake?

zoro has sword style techs so he is a swordsman you have no point no argument here you are just reaching now you are beaten and you know it but that foolish pride of yours wont let you relent........if shanks had sword skills and haki he would be a swordsman all it takes is sword skills like mihawk and zoro to be a swordsman *sigh*

I do not know the reason shanks learned haki you could be right just like later in the manga it could be revealed that shanks is a swordsman but at this point in the manga he is not

 

[Punk Hazard]

One Piece is in 760s chapter but it's still early to say who out of these two is better in which category. We can only say that Mihawk is better than Shanks when it comes to swordsmanship. I would say that they are pretty equal and if I had really to chose one I would say Mihawk instead of Shanks, but as I said it's really early to say who out of these two are stronger.

That makes both of them swordsman, but that makes Mihawk > Shanks in swordsmanship, who is overall stronger is just matter of opinion.

As I said by the end of series, Zoro will be Greatest swordsman, but it's pretty unlikely that he will be stronger than Law, who is also swordsman, he will just be better than him when it comes to swordsmanship.



As I said to Riker Slade above, it's early to say who is better than who in which category.

I don't think you understand. Sure, Shanks may be better than Mihawk in certain subcategories, such as speed and strength, but they still fall under the general category of swordsman. And Mihawk is considered the strongest in that category.

Think of it this way. Let's say you're considered the best student in our school because your overall grades are better. Now, I may do better than you in a particular subject or two; I may be better than you in math and science, but you're considered the best student in school because OVERALL you have a higher grades.

 

[Bogard]

@Corazon At the end of the day you're missing the point. Fact remain that Rayleigh(another strong COC user) couldn't make use of it against Kizaru. If it was that useful, why didn't he use it against Kizaru?

As I said by the end of series, Zoro will be Greatest swordsman, but it's pretty unlikely that he will be stronger than Law, who is also swordsman, he will just be better than him when it comes to swordsmanship.

Why is that?

1- I don't see Law reaching end of serie now that we learnt the greatest ability of his df

2- Law is a contender for the pirate king title, but the greatest contender of the pirate king title will be Blackbeard. That means even if Law were to survive, sooner or later, he'd be surpassed by Luffy to face his real rival for the title(Blackbeard) at some point, leaving greater evolution room to the strawhats and making his firstmate(Zoro) actually surpass Law. Infact there is a huge possibility something will happen even after they find one piece in raftel judging by WB's words, making the strawhats evolution grow even greater.

 

[ChrisWolf]

I don't think you understand. Sure, Shanks may be better than Mihawk in certain subcategories, such as speed and strength, but they still fall under the general category of swordsman. And Mihawk is considered the strongest in that category.

Think of it this way. Let's say you're considered the best student in our school because your overall grades are better. Now, I may do better than you in a particular subject or two; I may be better than you in math and science, but you're considered the best student in school because OVERALL you have a higher grades.

another analogy that doesn't prove anything. You could be the best student in school because of overall academics but then someone could come along and beat in chess and battleship and any strategy game you can think of and also still beat you at any school subject trivia game. He may out do shanks in swordsmanship DURING a battle but then shanks could still WIN the battle with his haki.

 

[Hexuze]

@Corazon At the end of the day you're missing the point. Fact remain that Rayleigh(another strong COC user) couldn't make use of it against Kizaru. If it was that useful, why didn't he use it against Kizaru?

How am I missing the point? How can you assume that he's a strong CoC user? What if he was specializing in CoA and Roger specialized in CoC? We won't know until Oda explains the capabilities of CoC in battle. I'm quite confident that it does have use in combat (not just knocking out fodders) and it will be better than CoO/CoA. That's pretty much a given from the importance Oda has been giving it & hype.

 

[Bogard]

How am I missing the point? How can you assume that he's a strong CoC user? What if he was specializing in CoA and Roger specialized in CoC? We won't know until Oda explains the capabilities of CoC in battle. I'm quite confident that it does have use in combat (not just knocking out fodders) and it will be better than CoO/CoA. That's pretty much a given from the importance Oda has been giving it & hype.

Rayleigh's COC rivals Shanks' according to Oda's SBS

 

[Hexuze]

Rayleigh's COC rivals Shanks' according to Oda's SBS

Nice, ignore everything else I've said in my post. Anyways, I don't recall him stating that. Are you referring to SBS Volume 65?

 

[Bogard]

Nice, ignore everything else I've said in my post. Anyways, I don't recall him stating that. Are you referring to SBS Volume 65?

Why talking about irrelevant things when you don't answer questions?

I repost my question again

Why didn't Rayleigh use COC on Kizaru if it was that useful?

In case you missed

And yes i'm talking about that one. This is the quote

D: Luffy's haoshoku haki was able to affect 50,000 men, but how many would Shanks and the others be able to defeat? P.N. Captain Nobuo

O: In exactly the same place and exact same situation as Luffy, Shanks or Rayleigh may have been capable of knocking out all 100,000. In a different setting, you can't really compare just by asking "how many people". Being able to knock an enemy out with haki depends entirely on having an overwhelming power gap between the two. In Luffy's case the point is the number of people that were so weak that they were not even worth him fighting. If there were 100,000 to-some-extent-strong-willed pirates before him, it's possible that he wouldn't even be able to knock out a single one. On a related note, as one's proficiency with haoshoku advances, it's even possible to target a few people in a crowd to NOT knock out.

And before you say anything

First thing

Pay a note that the dude who asked didn't even mention Rayleigh in his question. His question was original meant for Shanks. But Oda still wanted to put Rayleigh in the comparison

Second Thing

Pay a note that Oda used the word may. A may is to emphasize an approximation which is close to the term close to, heavily implying both their(Rayleigh and Shanks) COC are comparable

 

[Punk Hazard]

another analogy that doesn't prove anything. You could be the best student in school because of overall academics but then someone could come along and beat in chess and battleship and any strategy game you can think of and also still beat you at any school subject trivia game. He may out do shanks in swordsmanship DURING a battle but then shanks could still WIN the battle with his haki.

Wow, you misunderstood the analogy so very badly.

First off, I was comparing being a combatter and combat abilities to a student and their grades, not overall intelligence. The subjects a student undergoes alludes to the multiple parts of combat, such as strength, speed, stamina, etc. If you bring in things like chess and battleship, the analogy would change from:
Mihawk beating Shanks despite potentially being inferior to him in some subcategories is analogous to one student being better than the other overall despite having a lower grade in a particular class

to:
Someone being better overall than another student in school despite having lower grades in a particular class, but losing in chess and battleship is analogous to Mihawk beating Shanks despite being potentially inferior to him in some subcategories of combat, but losing to Shanks in a drinking contest, a swimming match or basketball game.

Secondly, in a battle using only Haki, Shanks can win all we wants, it doesn't change that when they go all out, Mihawk wins.
But, analogies don't seem to be your strong suit, I'm sure you won't understand what has been said, so I'd like to request we drop analogies when the two of us are going back and forth.

 

[ChrisWolf]

Wow, you misunderstood the analogy so very badly.

First off, I was comparing being a combatter and combat abilities to a student and their grades, not overall intelligence. The subjects a student undergoes alludes to the multiple parts of combat, such as strength, speed, stamina, etc. If you bring in things like chess and battleship, the analogy would change from:
Mihawk beating Shanks despite potentially being inferior to him in some subcategories is analogous to one student being better than the other overall despite having a lower grade in a particular class

to:
Someone being better overall than another student in school despite having lower grades in a particular class, but losing in chess and battleship is analogous to Mihawk beating Shanks despite being potentially inferior to him in some subcategories of combat, but losing to Shanks in a drinking contest, a swimming match or basketball game.

Secondly, in a battle using only Haki, Shanks can win all we wants, it doesn't change that when they go all out, Mihawk wins.
But, analogies don't seem to be your strong suit, I'm sure you won't understand what has been said, so I'd like to request we drop analogies when the two of us are going back and forth.

*sigh* once again I understand the analogy, I'm not saying this analogy was flawed actually I'm more or less saying I don't like it its just not that powerful, I'll start using some analogies from now on so you see how its done.

And no having superior swordsmanship skills which is the ONLY thing mihawks title implies does not mean he would win in an all out battle.

 

[Punk Hazard]

*sigh* once again I understand the analogy, I'm not saying this analogy was flawed actually I'm more or less saying I don't like it its just not that powerful, I'll start using some analogies from now on so you see how its done.

And no having superior swordsmanship skills which is the ONLY thing mihawks title implies does not mean he would win in an all out battle.

No it doesn't. If it did, the title would be the World's Most Skilled Swordsman, not the strongest.

 

[ChrisWolf]

No it doesn't. If it did, the title would be the World's Most Skilled Swordsman, not the strongest.

once again you are playing on my use of the word skill/skills/skilled. But you know what I mean and you know I am right, I'm tired of arguing with you I don't have to continue going back and forth to prove I'm right when you are not bringing any new arguments or points to the table I've already showed you how you were wrong, now go ahead and have the last word on this I won't be returning to this thread after reading it.

 

[Bogard]

WSS = Beats every SWORDSMAN in swords combat regardless of their speed, haki, strength, magic or whatever
WSM = Beats every MAN in combat regardless of their speed, haki, strength, magic or whatever
WSC = Beats every creature in combat regardless of their speed, haki, strength, magic or whatever

If people are denying Mihawk's title to this point, are you gonna deny WB was stronger than Shanks? That he was only the physical strongest and that Shanks would beat him because of his haki, strength, magic or whatever?

Are you gonna deny Kaido is stronger than a creature like Marco? That he is only physically stronger than him physically but Marco has better haki, regeneration, magic or whatever?

 

[Punk Hazard]

WSS = Beats everyone in swords combat regardless of their speed, haki, strength, magic or whatever
WSM = Beats everyone in combat regardless of their speed, haki, strength, magic or whatever
WSC = Beats every creature in combat regardless of their speed, haki, strength, magic or whatever

If people are denying Mihawk's title to this point, are you gonna deny WB was stronger than Shanks? That he was only the physical strongest and that Shanks would beat him because of his haki, strength, magic or whatever?

Are you gonna deny Kaido is stronger than a creature like Marco? That he is only physically stronger than him physically but Marco has better haki, regeneration, magic or whatever?

And this, Chris, is why you should stop bringing that up.

 

[ChrisWolf]

crea·ture


/ˈkrēCHər/


noun

noun: creature; plural noun: creatures




an animal, as distinct from a human being.
"night sounds of birds and other creatures"


synonyms: animal, beast, brute; More
living thing, living being;

informalcritter, varmint

"the earth and its creatures"




•an animal or person.
"as fellow creatures on this planet, animals deserve respect"



•a fictional or imaginary being, typically a frightening one.
"a creature from outer space


So Kaido being the strongest creature makes him the strongest in OP.

 

[Punk Hazard]

crea·ture


/ˈkrēCHər/


noun

noun: creature; plural noun: creatures




an animal, as distinct from a human being.
"night sounds of birds and other creatures"


synonyms: animal, beast, brute; More
living thing, living being;

informalcritter, varmint

"the earth and its creatures"




•an animal or person.
"as fellow creatures on this planet, animals deserve respect"



•a fictional or imaginary being, typically a frightening one.
"a creature from outer space


So Kaido being the strongest creature makes him the strongest in OP.

Yeah. Problem?

 

[Hexuze]

Why talking about irrelevant things when you don't answer questions?

I repost my question again

Why didn't Rayleigh use COC on Kizaru if it was that useful?

In case you missed

And yes i'm talking about that one. This is the quote




And before you say anything

First thing

Pay a note that the dude who asked didn't even mention Rayleigh in his question. His question was original meant for Shanks. But Oda still wanted to put Rayleigh in the comparison

Second Thing

Pay a note that Oda used the word may. A may is to emphasize an approximation which is close to the term close to, heavily implying both their(Rayleigh and Shanks) COC are comparable

First thing

Maybe because at the time those were the only two characters that we've seen that used CoC? Ace was shown using as a child but he's dead so no point of mentioning him or old sick WB.

Second Thing

That doesn't imply that they're comparable.

As to why Rayleigh didn't use it in his fight? How should we know? If I had to guess, maybe because he couldn't use it as well in his prime since he retired. Perhaps CoC is related to experience/use, I'm not sure and no one here can give you an answer. That doesn't mean you assume it's only used to knock out fodders. It's just something that Oda has to explain later on.

 

[Anduril]

We have not even seen Kaidou! WTF is up with these matchups?