first of all, I'm not 100% sure what you mean but yes a lot of pirates do not survive the NW, but the same goes for every single generation so what exactly is your point?
second, dont misquote me, what I wrote was
Algalon said:
I honestly believe that there were (at least) 4 ppl in OPverse at the time of the war that could either defeat WB or have such a close battle that it could go either way and those are Dragon, Shanks , Mihawk and Garp (Garp was the other one who rivaled Roger and he looked in a bit better shape than old WB ie he wasn't as affected by old age as WB was)
after Rogers death WB and Garp ruled the world, but than a new generation came (with Dragon, Shanks and Mihawk) and a still newer one is on the way atm
here's what you quoted, at least get the damn words right
Your version said:
I honestly believe that there were (at least) 4 ppl in OPverse at the time of the war that could either defeat WB or have such a close battle that it could go either way and those are Dragon, Shanks , Mihawk and Garp (Garp was the other one who rivaled Roger and he looked in a bit better shape than old WB ie he wasn't as affected by old age as WB was) At marinedord wb suffered injuries but mihawk did not why because mihawk is stronger
after Rogers death WB and Garp ruled the world, but than a new generation came (with Dragon, Shanks and Mihawk) and a still newer one is on the way atm
helmmepo didn't get hurt ... does it mean he's stronger than wb ??? heck even that guy who stabbed wb NEVER GOT HURT .... so your point is ????
and fi he's the WSS then lemme break it to you ^_^ white beard is THE WORLD STRONGEST MAN not a sowrdmen not a martial artist but the world stronget man !!!! simple as that
Sure ya can. Doctors do it all the time. Plus, why else would joza feel the need to block the attack if whitebeard couldn't get hurt by it in the first place
Sure ya can. Doctors do it all the time. Plus, why else would joza feel the need to block the attack if whitebeard couldn't get hurt by it in the first place
Maybe Jozu thought it would make a badass stage debut o-o
He probably did it just so WB can stay still and not do anything yet
WB would obviously need to block it,it wouldnt kill him but any wound is a bad wound
There is also the possibility that he is slightly stronger than Shanks (which I believe to be true).
How can you not rank Mihawk above the admirals? Even though Isshou is a swordsman and he IS an Admiral yet Mihawk is stronger? And then he rivals Shanks (obviously greater than an Admiral)
I never said that mihawk is not admiral level, he is obviously admiral level or higher... All i did was exlain my observations of the series and mihawk, people say mihawk is pretty much above yonko level which is ridiculous. He still hasnt showed any of his full strength at all
I never said that mihawk is not admiral level, he is obviously admiral level or higher... All i did was exlain my observations of the series and mihawk, people say mihawk is pretty much above yonko level which is ridiculous. He still hasnt showed any of his full strength at all
Old age/sick whitebeard was stabbed in the chest in marineford then goes out to fight. After all of that he tanked through high ranking officers, fought all three admirals (basically destroys akainu), and after all that still went on to fight a whole pirate crew. I didnt see mihawk doing anything like that.
If mihawk was so strong then why couldnt he just easily make quick work against vista? vista is barely vice admiral level, mihawk could easily beat him, but still.
Old age/sick Whitebeard (without any injuries going into it) going into a battle against mihawk would win, he wouldnt have to be in his prime to beat mihawk.
Also the thread said nothing about the old WB vs Mihawk, it just said WB vs Mihawk basically. With no other perameters arent you supposed to assume prime or near prime?
How is Mihawk stronger? They were pretty equal 12+ years ago when they would spar, from there i think shanks has improved more than mihawk (for reasons i already stated) since the time they were sparring buddies
Two wrongs don't make a right. You are underrating him. It's clear as day that Mihawk is on the same level as the yonko and admirals. You free to think that he would lose to any of them just like someone else thinks vice versa but saying he isn't on their level is just silly. This thing you're calling fanboyism without any evidence is a lot better than fanboying Garp even though being proven every single time.
Why would that mean he is overrated?
OT: Old and sick Whitebeard could beat anyone. I won't be surprised if you make a thread about Nami beating Roger.
Yeah in this very thread, the point was that mihawk would beat WB. Saying mihawk would beat whitebeard is like saying mihawk is top 3 strongest character easily which he is not... That is literally overrating him. Saying he is stronger than he really is
Correct. You need to be dedicated to the art of the sword. Shanks has always been shown with his sword and whenever in combat , always using it: As you can see here:
Also just gonna throw in his Jolly Roger
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Shanks using his sword
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Shanks using his sword
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Shanks illustrated by Oda holding a sword
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Shanks holding his sword
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The sword goes wherever he goes.
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It can however still be hinted. And it has been if you look at the evidence above along with the FACT that Shanks rivals Mihawk in strength ; considering both have a sword as their predominant weapon we can assume Shanks is a dedicated swordsman.
Rayleigh has been called a legendary swordsman. Roger was most likely somebody who just used a sword without practice (like Luffy vs Arlong and in the Colosseum). Mihawk uses a Dagger sometimes. By your logic he now cannot be a swordsman because he shows skills in something other than swordsmanship. Zoro has been shown kicking and punching before ; now according to you I guess he isn't a swordsman...
Just because we know nothing about it does not mean it is a simple saber. Vista has swords we know nothing about. Someone of his caliber can't be a swordsman because of his "simple sabers" right? Well it is very possible that he has one of the 12 O'Wazomono swords like Mihawk does.
They have been shown to use other weapons or their appendages.
This is correct. They predominantly fight with swords.
Since the strongest Yonkou is a swordsman ; WSS>SY at the moment. Yonkou titles has nothing to do with individual strength. Unlike being the WSS.
If Mihawk is stronger than Shanks there is no way for Shanks to stand a chance against WB
mihawk using his eating utinsil while fighting fodder means nothing. On top of that swordsmen use anything that are categorized as knives. Usually when it is not a katana it is translated to a knife, its like in zelda, a lot of times they call Link's first sword a knife.
Fujitora has shown to always carry his sword too in every fight, he never really uses it, but why not carry your weapons into a fight?
every scene roger is in during a battle situation he has a sword out, as well as the rest of his crew when they show flashbacks. Most of the time, pirates carry a bladed edge (usually a sword because they are easier to use and carry) and a pistol.
Just because Shanks has swung his sword twice in the series, it doesnt make him a dedicated swordsman. Yes he has great swordsmanship, but just because mihawk has better swordsmanship it doesnt mean he is stronger than shanks. Its like saying if two characters are sharpshooters, and one is a better sharp shooter than the other it does not mean they are stronger than them overall, the better sharpshooter may lose everytime
The point is that we have not seen Shanks fight enough to say he is only a swordsman, he probably has better skills with something like armarment haki and so on. Most of the time in the series so far the better haki user is usually the stronger character overall
Also by my logic, i said swordsmen predominately only use swords in combat, there are exceptions, but I dont remeber a time zoro has went straight fists against someone, even now when he doesnt have access to swords he still uses sword techniques (getting out of the cage in the ryugu palace)
I never said that mihawk is not admiral level, he is obviously admiral level or higher... All i did was exlain my observations of the series and mihawk, people say mihawk is pretty much above yonko level which is ridiculous. He still hasnt showed any of his full strength at all
Why are you so prejudiced against others opinions and views? This kind of talk is for a debate thread which was already concluded. Shanks was proven a swordsman. How can we overrate someone when they're hyped to be stronger? How can we be overrating someone for saying they are stronger when they're supposed to be rivals? (Especially as one of them has to be stronger or they're equal)
If you think there is a clear distinction and differentiation in both Shanks and Mihawks strength then you are obviously severely underrating one or the other.
He is the worlds strongest swordsman. Shanks is a swordsman. What does this tell you?
Or not...
Why are you so prejudiced against others opinions and views? This kind of talk is for a debate thread which was already concluded. Shanks was proven a swordsman. How can we overrate someone when they're hyped to be stronger? How can we be overrating someone for saying they are stronger when they're supposed to be rivals? (Especially as one of them has to be stronger or they're equal)
If you think there is a clear distinction and differentiation in both Shanks and Mihawks strength then you are obviously severely underrating one or the other.
Just cuz you use a sword it doesnt make you a swordsman, it says no where in the series that shanks is a dedicated swordsman. Characters like roger, rayleigh, etc all carry swords but they are not swordsmen because they have a wide range of abilities other than using simple swords. If shanks was really a swordsman then he would probably have something better than a simple saber.
Swordsmen are people like mihawk and zoro who only use swords in combat, they almost never fight with their fists, or anything else, just purely swords
Being strongest swordsman is not being hyped more than being the strongest yonko either
Yeah I know, based on hype and what we have seen from mihawk we can speculate that if he fought the old and sick WB, WB would probably win mid-high diff and IMO if Whitebeard, the strongest man alive at the time needs to mid-high diff you then you are extremely strong, like admiral+ strong
Mihawk is definitely one of the strongest characters in the series (easily top 15 so far) but people seem to be putting him amongst the top 3 or 4, which is not true to me
Correct. You need to be dedicated to the art of the sword. Shanks has always been shown with his sword and whenever in combat , always using it: As you can see here:
Also just gonna throw in his Jolly Roger
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Shanks using his sword
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Shanks using his sword
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Shanks illustrated by Oda holding a sword
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Shanks holding his sword
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The sword goes wherever he goes.
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it says no where in the series that shanks is a dedicated swordsman.
It can however still be hinted. And it has been if you look at the evidence above along with the FACT that Shanks rivals Mihawk in strength ; considering both have a sword as their predominant weapon we can assume Shanks is a dedicated swordsman.
Characters like roger, rayleigh, etc all carry swords but they are not swordsmen because they have a wide range of abilities other than using simple swords.
Rayleigh has been called a legendary swordsman. Roger was most likely somebody who just used a sword without practice (like Luffy vs Arlong and in the Colosseum). Mihawk uses a Dagger sometimes. By your logic he now cannot be a swordsman because he shows skills in something other than swordsmanship. Zoro has been shown kicking and punching before ; now according to you I guess he isn't a swordsman...
If shanks was really a swordsman then he would probably have something better than a simple saber.
Just because we know nothing about it does not mean it is a simple saber. Vista has swords we know nothing about. Someone of his caliber can't be a swordsman because of his "simple sabers" right? Well it is very possible that he has one of the 12 O'Wazomono swords like Mihawk does.
Swordsmen are people like mihawk and zoro who only use swords in combat,
Please the Mihawk fanboyism is far to much these days Mihawk isn't on the same level as Shanks so of course he's not stronger the Whitebeard, to be honest I'd say Mihawk would lose to the other Yonkou and Admirals, people seem to think that the title of the WSS puts him above everybody who has been seen with a sword. Pirates and Marines have other ways of fighting and Whitebeard was a perfect example of this he was extremely powerful barehanded 'but' he could use a blade when he had to.
Two wrongs don't make a right. You are underrating him. It's clear as day that Mihawk is on the same level as the yonko and admirals. You free to think that he would lose to any of them just like someone else thinks vice versa but saying he isn't on their level is just silly. This thing you're calling fanboyism without any evidence is a lot better than fanboying Garp even though being proven every single time.
Two wrongs don't make a right. You are underrating him. It's clear as day that Mihawk is on the same level as the yonko and admirals. You free to think that he would lose to any of them just like someone else thinks vice versa but saying he isn't on their level is just silly. This thing you're calling fanboyism without any evidence is a lot better than fanboying Garp even though being proven every single time.
Why would that mean he is overrated?
OT: Old and sick Whitebeard could beat anyone. I won't be surprised if you make a thread about Nami beating Roger.
They clearly don't know what evidence is even though I have given them evidence and analyzed it in the simplest way possible for them to understand.
Just ignore them if they keep disregarding our posts and labeling us as "fanboys" (even though I prefer Shanks to Mihawk. He doesn't rate among my top 10 characters)
mihawk using his eating utinsil while fighting fodder means nothing. On top of that swordsmen use anything that are categorized as knives. Usually when it is not a katana it is translated to a knife, its like in zelda, a lot of times they call Link's first sword a knife.
Then I guess one kick also means nothing (this is why you think Rayleigh is not a swordsman). Not yet seen a swordsman use anything other than daggers or swords for a blade. This point is irrelevant and invalid.
Fujitora has shown to always carry his sword too in every fight, he never really uses it, but why not carry your weapons into a fight?
Never uses his sword!? Are you kidding me!? He uses his sword in order to use his powers (whether the sword enhances it or increases accuracy is unknown.)
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It's clear (from the last picture in particular) that the sword is crucial to his fighting style. With a sword at the center of his fighting style he is most definitely a swordsman.
Never uses his sword my f*ckin ass bro.
every scene roger is in during a battle situation he has a sword out, as well as the rest of his crew when they show flashbacks. Most of the time, pirates carry a bladed edge (usually a sword because they are easier to use and carry) and a pistol.
You mean the sword he held in the air once in the Eddy War? The only time he was ever shown carrying a sword? I see him as similar to Lucy and Luffy vs Arlong kinda fighter. No sword training involved.
Just because Shanks has swung his sword twice in the series, it doesnt make him a dedicated swordsman. Yes he has great swordsmanship, but just because mihawk has better swordsmanship it doesnt mean he is stronger than shanks. Its like saying if two characters are sharpshooters, and one is a better sharp shooter than the other it does not mean they are stronger than them overall, the better sharpshooter may lose everytime
2 times out of 2 incidences ; he has swung his sword to fight seriously and save people (a la Coby). This shows that in urgent or important battles he will use a Sword. Clearly his weapon of choice. This is futher consolidated by his Jolly Roger. The sword is wherever he is ; showing that he treasures his weapon , proving that he is dedicated and honorable as a swordsman. I am not basing it on swordsmanship. You seem to misunderstand that my arguments are category based. And therefore anyone who can be classed as a swordsman (whether or not they are capable of other skills) are inferior to Mihawk. Simple logic - not hard to understand.
Sharp shooters are entirely different to swordsmen. Sharp shooters skills are based on accuracy etc. (not strength related). Whereas Swordsmanship is based on other things (Speed,Strength,Power,Agility,Reflexes to name a few. These are strength related). Poor example. You clearly aren't capable of analysis.
The point is that we have not seen Shanks fight enough to say he is only a swordsman,
Same can be said for Mihawk as we have seen them fight the same number of times.
he probably has better skills with something like armarment haki and so on. Most of the time in the series so far the better haki user is usually the stronger character overall
And we cannot tell as of yet as neither have been able to demonstrate the strength of their Busoshoku Haki. Irrelevant point.
Also by my logic, i said swordsmen predominately only use swords in combat, there are exceptions, but I dont remeber a time zoro has went straight fists against someone, even now when he doesnt have access to swords he still uses sword techniques (getting out of the cage in the ryugu palace)
Luffy vs Zoro on Whiskey Peak. You said Rayleigh was not a swordsman because it was hinted he could fight with other means ; as he kicked Borsalino. Now you've completely contradicted your own words by saying "there are exceptions" and even changing your definition. You said ONLY swords beforehand , now you say PREDOMINANTLY. You lack consistency too.
I never said that mihawk is not admiral level, he is obviously admiral level or higher... All i did was exlain my observations of the series and mihawk, people say mihawk is pretty much above yonko level which is ridiculous. He still hasnt showed any of his full strength at all
I think mihawk might be the strongest in the op universe period, who else have Luffy stated was to strong to battle , Luffy actually ran away from mihawk
How is Mihawk stronger? They were pretty equal 12+ years ago when they would spar, from there i think shanks has improved more than mihawk (for reasons i already stated) since the time they were sparring buddies
Shanks is strong and we all know that is he stronger than mihawk, most likely not, yeah they dueled in the past but now shanks only have one arm and is considered unworthy to duel any longer by mihawk
Yeah in this very thread, the point was that mihawk would beat WB. Saying mihawk would beat whitebeard is like saying mihawk is top 3 strongest character easily which he is not... That is literally overrating him. Saying he is stronger than he really is
He actually is, he's the only character in the series that Luffy stated was to strong to battle and he destroyed don kreig 50 ship battalion by himself, he dueled equally with a healthy shanks , he might be top 1
Mihawk never stated with was stronger than he was, he simply wanted to gauge wb power, and I do think wb is physically stronger than mihawk but he is still unable to defeat mihawk, if the battle and wb make one mistake he will be sliced in half by mihawk , mihawk is younger and more skilled.
I never said that mihawk is not admiral level, he is obviously admiral level or higher... All i did was exlain my observations of the series and mihawk, people say mihawk is pretty much above yonko level which is ridiculous. He still hasnt showed any of his full strength at all
I think mihawk might be the strongest in the op universe period, who else have Luffy stated was to strong to battle , Luffy actually ran away from mihawk
How is Mihawk stronger? They were pretty equal 12+ years ago when they would spar, from there i think shanks has improved more than mihawk (for reasons i already stated) since the time they were sparring buddies
Shanks is strong and we all know that is he stronger than mihawk, most likely not, yeah they dueled in the past but now shanks only have one arm and is considered unworthy to duel any longer by mihawk
Yeah in this very thread, the point was that mihawk would beat WB. Saying mihawk would beat whitebeard is like saying mihawk is top 3 strongest character easily which he is not... That is literally overrating him. Saying he is stronger than he really is
He actually is, he's the only character in the series that Luffy stated was to strong to battle and he destroyed don kreig 50 ship battalion by himself, he dueled equally with a healthy shanks , he might be top 1
Mihawk never stated that wb was stronger than he was, he simply wanted to gauge wb power, and I do think wb is physically stronger than mihawk but he is still unable to defeat mihawk, if the battle and wb make one mistake he will be sliced in half by mihawk , mihawk is younger and more skilled.
Yeah in this very thread, the point was that mihawk would beat WB. Saying mihawk would beat whitebeard is like saying mihawk is top 3 strongest character easily which he is not... That is literally overrating him. Saying he is stronger than he really is
and fi he's the WSS then lemme break it to you ^_^ white beard is THE WORLD STRONGEST MAN not a sowrdmen not a martial artist but the world stronget man !!!! simple as that
The strongest man can bleed and if you can bleed you can die, being the strongest doesn't make you unbeatable , if that was the case wb would still be alive
How is Mihawk stronger? They were pretty equal 12+ years ago when they would spar, from there i think shanks has improved more than mihawk (for reasons i already stated) since the time they were sparring buddies
Then I guess one kick also means nothing (this is why you think Rayleigh is not a swordsman). Not yet seen a swordsman use anything other than daggers or swords for a blade. This point is irrelevant and invalid.
Never uses his sword!? Are you kidding me!? He uses his sword in order to use his powers (whether the sword enhances it or increases accuracy is unknown.)
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It's clear (from the last picture in particular) that the sword is crucial to his fighting style. With a sword at the center of his fighting style he is most definitely a swordsman.
Never uses his sword my f*ckin ass bro.
You mean the sword he held in the air once in the Eddy War? The only time he was ever shown carrying a sword? I see him as similar to Lucy and Luffy vs Arlong kinda fighter. No sword training involved.
2 times out of 2 incidences ; he has swung his sword to fight seriously and save people (a la Coby). This shows that in urgent or important battles he will use a Sword. Clearly his weapon of choice. This is futher consolidated by his Jolly Roger. The sword is wherever he is ; showing that he treasures his weapon , proving that he is dedicated and honorable as a swordsman. I am not basing it on swordsmanship. You seem to misunderstand that my arguments are category based. And therefore anyone who can be classed as a swordsman (whether or not they are capable of other skills) are inferior to Mihawk. Simple logic - not hard to understand.
Sharp shooters are entirely different to swordsmen. Sharp shooters skills are based on accuracy etc. (not strength related). Whereas Swordsmanship is based on other things (Speed,Strength,Power,Agility,Reflexes to name a few. These are strength related). Poor example. You clearly aren't capable of analysis.
Same can be said for Mihawk as we have seen them fight the same number of times.
And we cannot tell as of yet as neither have been able to demonstrate the strength of their Busoshoku Haki. Irrelevant point.
Luffy vs Zoro on Whiskey Peak. You said Rayleigh was not a swordsman because it was hinted he could fight with other means ; as he kicked Borsalino. Now you've completely contradicted your own words by saying "there are exceptions" and even changing your definition. You said ONLY swords beforehand , now you say PREDOMINANTLY. You lack consistency too.
I said almost never fight by any other means specifically to include the fights like whiskey peak (obviously he wasnt going to really try to kill luffy, also both got solo'd by nami in that same fight)
Having the strongest haki is not an irrelevent point... People say mihawk is the strongest swordsman, people also say shanks most likely has the best haki. IMO best haki>best swordsman. All the characters mentioned with their battle abilities prove nothing about their full potential in battle and you even said that, saying we dont know if mihawk fights with anything other than swords
Mihawk fodderizing fodder doesnt mean anything. Zoro did a same thing to an arguably stronger crew right after the time skip
A sharpshooter has to take into all the same skills as a swordsman and that was my point. The only thing would be physical strength which is the trade off to accuracy.
I know the logic you are using. Mihawk is the strongest swordsman so in swordsmanship he is stronger and/or more skilled than shanks, which i agree is true, but just because you classify them both as swordsmen doesnt mean anything in terms of overall strength...
I know Fujitora uses his blade, but what he does with his blade almost has not with his powers at all. He can literally have any other weapon with him and his power will not change
You see Roger similar to Luffy carrying his sword, even though every time we see roger (not captured), he is wielding a sword or carrying one on him. Now you are just guessing with roger with nothing to back it up.
I think rayleigh is not purely a swordsman because he has been shown more times in battle not using his sword. Like at marineford, he basically gave simple rifle bullets the destructive power of a cannon ball, he has shown that he can be very versatile without a weapon at all
Even if you classify someone as a swordsman it doesnt mean that is the only thing they can do or are willing to fight with
The strongest man can bleed and if you can bleed you can die, being the strongest doesn't make you unbeatable , if that was the case wb would still be alive
Shanks lost an arm and is now considered handicap
Not a troll but being the strongest doesn't mean your undefeatable, if that was the case wb would still be alive
Shanks lost his arm and is now considered handicap? by who? the people weaker than him? Fujitora is straight up blind and he is strong AF. WB had a gaping hole through his chest, and hundreds of other wounds, and was still taking out admirals and blackbeard. Though they may be "handicapped" it means nothing. I would say zoro's bad sense of direction is a bigger handicap than being blind or missing an arm
