Might Gai Vs Tsunade

shelke

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^ I really don't care whether you believe Tsunade wins or loses. I just wanted to correct you on this.
 

Joseph Gomes

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^ I really don't care whether you believe Tsunade wins or loses. I just wanted to correct you on this.

Fair enough. Where did you get that each gate except 8th allows only 1 ultimate move? Any scan please?
 

shelke

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^ Because he has never shown to spam it in one go.
 

Joseph Gomes

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^ Because he has never shown to spam it in one go.

Where was the limitation mentioned? He only needed 1 hirudora to put down kisame. Did Gai say he can't use more than 1 hirudora?
 

MightGai

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If only Gai had a Gate technique that he can spam 5 times or so ...
 

Haizaki

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This same thread or a new one? :S Gai ain't killing her ever unless 8th gate(night moth) unless we think air pressure will kill. Other gates aren't spammable without proof to say he can wear her down before he himself tires his own body from gate use. Gates have time out in between and so eh.

The only thing people probably have is the head claims which has nothing to back it up other than angry ppl. But w/e

Are you even serious...EE destoys her..just stop
 

shelke

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Where was the limitation mentioned? He only needed 1 hirudora to put down kisame. Did Gai say he can't use more than 1 hirudora?

What limitation? We know for a fact that Gates - name given to the Chakra gates within the body - despite opening the Heal Gate accelerate the self-destruction of the body. The more it's over-used, the more damage it will receive, which is why after using Afternoon Tiger just once against Kisame, his muscles were ripped to shreds. He was in extreme pain.

If this is how it is for one usage that renders his muscles useless, how on earth would he use another one, when the limits or the Chakra flowing through the Gate has been exploited to fuel the body? It's common sense.
 

TheTailedSage

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For starters, people are assuming he goes 6 or 7 gates straight away. Gai can start off in 5 gates which is more than fast enough to overwhelm Tsuande in speed. Increase to 6 and then 7 once he has done enough damage to her skull.

We know Gai is capable of increasing his gates because part 1 lee had done it from 1-5 plus . If Gai doesn't use hidden lotus or morning peacock and saves the grand finale till 7th gate then i don't see how Tsunades mitotic regeneration can keep up from the stopped in which the damage is being inflicted. Lets not forget he can change gates when she is most vulnerable, just hot Lee did to gaara while doing hidden lotus. He changed from the 4th gate to the fifth gate at a certain time Once gai hits 3 gates (extreeme lotus) Tsunade will not be able to keep up with that level of speed. Even Kakashi with 3T was overwhealmed by the sheer speed of only the 4th gate . Tsunade will be in the same predicament as Gaara, unable to predict or react to his movements - . By simply moving forward it was so fast it was illustrated as a flash . Oh lets just remind ourselves that Gai himself stated that a Gates user

It took Sand armour to absorb most of the impact but even then Gaara had suffered . Your telling me that Tsunade will withstand the assault TO THE HEAD that Gaara WITH sand armour (i will gladly show anyone scan of how durable sand is) took ? Not to mention Gai would be starting in at least the 5th gate. Gai has also been shown to withstand the pressure of the gates at various times in the manga and even the precious databook that some people so happily refer to, said that he has a body of steel.

I dont care what any fanboy wants to say, there is a limit to how fast Tsuande can regenerate.
 

Curse Mark

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For starters, people are assuming he goes 6 or 7 gates straight away. Gai can start off in 5 gates which is more than fast enough to overwhelm Tsuande in speed. Increase to 6 and then 7 once he has done enough damage to her skull.

We know Gai is capable of increasing his gates because part 1 lee had done it from 1-5 plus . If Gai doesn't use hidden lotus or morning peacock and saves the grand finale till 7th gate then i don't see how Tsunades mitotic regeneration can keep up from the stopped in which the damage is being inflicted. Lets not forget he can change gates when she is most vulnerable, just hot Lee did to gaara while doing hidden lotus. He changed from the 4th gate to the fifth gate at a certain time Once gai hits 3 gates (extreeme lotus) Tsunade will not be able to keep up with that level of speed. Even Kakashi with 3T was overwhealmed by the sheer speed of only the 4th gate . Tsunade will be in the same predicament as Gaara, unable to predict or react to his movements - . By simply moving forward it was so fast it was illustrated as a flash . Oh lets just remind ourselves that Gai himself stated that a Gates user

It took Sand armour to absorb most of the impact but even then Gaara had suffered . Your telling me that Tsunade will withstand the assault TO THE HEAD that Gaara WITH sand armour (i will gladly show anyone scan of how durable sand is) took ? Not to mention Gai would be starting in at least the 5th gate. Gai has also been shown to withstand the pressure of the gates at various times in the manga and even the precious databook that some people so happily refer to, said that he has a body of steel.

I dont care what any fanboy wants to say, there is a limit to how fast Tsuande can regenerate.

He said " taijutsu that can't be touched" as in "taijutsu that nothing can compare to" not that the user can't be touched. only mistake i noticed though good post man
 

RedRobin

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For starters, people are assuming he goes 6 or 7 gates straight away. Gai can start off in 5 gates which is more than fast enough to overwhelm Tsuande in speed. Increase to 6 and then 7 once he has done enough damage to her skull.

We know Gai is capable of increasing his gates because part 1 lee had done it from 1-5 plus . If Gai doesn't use hidden lotus or morning peacock and saves the grand finale till 7th gate then i don't see how Tsunades mitotic regeneration can keep up from the stopped in which the damage is being inflicted. Lets not forget he can change gates when she is most vulnerable, just hot Lee did to gaara while doing hidden lotus. He changed from the 4th gate to the fifth gate at a certain time Once gai hits 3 gates (extreeme lotus) Tsunade will not be able to keep up with that level of speed. Even Kakashi with 3T was overwhealmed by the sheer speed of only the 4th gate . Tsunade will be in the same predicament as Gaara, unable to predict or react to his movements - . By simply moving forward it was so fast it was illustrated as a flash . Oh lets just remind ourselves that Gai himself stated that a Gates user

It took Sand armour to absorb most of the impact but even then Gaara had suffered . Your telling me that Tsunade will withstand the assault TO THE HEAD that Gaara WITH sand armour (i will gladly show anyone scan of how durable sand is) took ? Not to mention Gai would be starting in at least the 5th gate. Gai has also been shown to withstand the pressure of the gates at various times in the manga and even the precious databook that some people so happily refer to, said that he has a body of steel.

I dont care what any fanboy wants to say, there is a limit to how fast Tsuande can regenerate.

Dude show me a scan of the gates attacks ripping a body apart, it doesnt happen, Tsunade perfectly heals from his attacks. What you dont understand about that is beyond me.

Also what is his counter to Katsuyu?
 

MickNerks

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- Kisame's Clone was at 30% with all bodily stats. Let's see Gai's Morning Peacock Feats:


- Didn't Obliterate a 30% clones body.



His Afternoon Tiger didn't obliterate Kisame's body:



I never even claimed anything in regards to Tsunade's speed or slighted Gai's power. Get a good pair of glasses. I said she can endure till the Gate's duration runs out. As the shift between Gates isn't instant - far from it - she can heal the damage done during the lag.
.

In regards to Might Guy not being able to destroy/obliterate a 30% kisame clone, that's not neccesarly true. According to this scan that you provided, itachi clearly states that the clones have they exact same body and that the only thing that is different is the chakra levels and chakra strength. If the clones possess the same body, then they have the same body durability as the originals.

And its possible that the morning peacock would have burnt kisame to a crisp (to death), but he fell into water, which put out the flame, so there is no way of knowing for sure.

Just wanted to point that out in case you didn't notice.
 

TheTailedSage

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He said " taijutsu that can't be touched" as in "taijutsu that nothing can compare to" not that the user can't be touched. only mistake i noticed though good post man

What is the difference? if the high speed taijutsu cant be touched its the same as saying the user cant be touched sincce its the user performing the taijutsu. The point still stands and this hype has been proven since Gai or Lee has never been touched or harmed while in gates (thank you)

Dude show me a scan of the gates attacks ripping a body apart, it doesnt happen, Tsunade perfectly heals from his attacks. What you dont understand about that is beyond me.

Also what is his counter to Katsuyu?

Does he need to rip her body apart to win LOL like i said his efforts are wasted if he doesn't go for the cranium and with knowledge that is all he will go for. You keep saying she will heal from it with no proof. You expect me to take your word alone? well in this case you word doesn't mean anything without solid proof that her skull can survive a 5-7 gated assault. Compare mitotic to gate speed and see which is faster. Dont be so ignorant.

Show me one fight where Tsunade bring out a summon on a single target. She could have summoned her in the Madara fight yet Katsuya was not present. The only thing katsuya could do in this fight is allow tsunade inside of her which she,again, has never done in a fight. Could of done it against Madara and AGAIN was present in the fight. So dont bring the Katsuya crap to me, she is irrelavant and its out of character for her to bring her out in a one v one fight.

Tsunade VS Kabuto (Had the power to bring out Katsuya but didn't summon untill the sanin fight)
 

shelke

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In regards to Might Guy not being able to destroy/obliterate a 30% kisame clone, that's not neccesarly true. According to this scan that you provided, itachi clearly states that the clones have they exact same body and that the only thing that is different is the chakra levels and chakra strength. If the clones possess the same body, then they have the same body durability as the originals.

And its possible that the morning peacock would have burnt kisame to a crisp (to death), but he fell into water, which put out the flame, so there is no way of knowing for sure.

Just wanted to point that out in case you didn't notice.

I never disputed it, but the clones seem to be at 30% in proportion in regards to strength and Stamina as well. If strength of the body is at 30%, it clearly means that the body lacks the resilience and strength of the original. So in conclusion, it doesn't match the original.

Possibility, yes. A certainty? No.
 

MickNerks

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I never disputed it, but the clones seem to be at 30% in proportion in regards to strength and Stamina as well. If strength of the body is at 30%, it clearly means that the body lacks the resilience and strength of the original. So in conclusion, it doesn't match the original.

Possibility, yes. A certainty? No.

I think you are misunderstanding what itachi means by "strength and jutsu we can use". Im not trying to start some pointless argument of translation, but in that sentence itachi was referring to their strength/chakra strength (how powerful there jutsu will be compaired to the originals) and "jutsu they can use"/chakra reserves (how much chakra/stamina the clones have compaired to the original). By itachi already stating that the bodies are the same, that implies that their anatomical and biological properties are also that same. If the clones body composition is the same as the originals than the durability, physical strength wont be affected. The only thing that SHOULD be affected is the chakra level and chakra strength because that is what they limited their clones from.

I hope this makes since. Its also like naruto and his shadow clones. If he creates a clone then the chakra reserves are cut in half, but his physical strength and durability is not changed.
 
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shelke

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^ Look, I am in no mood to drag this on myself. The clones are chameleonic in nature and their overall strength and Chakra potency is determined by the amount of chakra invested in them. The Jutsu and Strength are separated. Kisame doesn't state that 'the Jutsu and its strength' he separates them, which leads to a solid implication of the body's overall status.

Anyways, this is my final argument in this thread. I have said my piece.
 

MickNerks

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^ Look, I am in no mood to drag this on myself. The clones are chameleonic in nature and their overall strength and Chakra potency is determined by the amount of chakra invested in them. The Jutsu and Strength are separated. Kisame doesn't state that 'the Jutsu and its strength' he separates them, which leads to a solid implication of the body's overall status.

Anyways, this is my final argument in this thread. I have said my piece.

That's cool, I didn't wanna drag it on either. Just trying to show a different perspective. But hope you didn't feel like I was trying to attack. I know some people on this base can be super sensitive.
 

Tazzilla88

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To answer your questions
1. He was referring to her healing abilities, there has been no one to just regenerate liek her she is th eonly one to hit the pinical of Med nin hence why he said she is no ordinary person She said the same about Kabuto :s Their ability to counteract each other moves takes skill and experience. Once of which both participants had. They refer to them as Genius's.

2-3. Ive already answered this. I have said that she is at least half senju and that may be helping her hence the slightly above human durability (not that much lets not get happy) and that aided with the automatic Healing helps her survive the transport with minimal injuries. The healing process slows down the damaging process long enough for her to be transported. If you recall i never said her durability was low i just said its not as great as you guys are making it out to be, her healing plays a big part in it.

Sasuke. Someone with MS at the time couldnt even keep up with ay and Needed Eton as compensation Plus before Ay went above base speed and into Lightning armour it was even stated not even sasuek will be able to keep up which was proven What makes you think someone lacking in that Dojutsu could even comprehend what was going on in that fight? If Sasuke cant even see where Ay was going how does Tsunade pull of this feat. Like i said she said she was surprised that naruto could keep up implying that she cant, hence the shocked expression.

Do you think Shes some sort of Lizard? she can not regenerate a new bottom half because it would kill her. To regenerate so fast would mean allowing the cells to overwork and the lifespan of the regeneration to over exert. Its not about chakra but how much times she can regenerate. This is why katsuya needed to get the body back, so that wasn't necessary and thus maintaining her life. Of course chakra had something to do with it but she was mostly doing it because she couldn't.

I know this is a weird example but have you tired spinning around really fast with your arms out and then feel as if your arms would drop off and start to hurt a bit? to to amplify it by light speed of course it would be damn deadly but the issue here is that that and Morning peacock are two different things causing different types of damages. Receive a series of Condensed punches to the skull (Assuming he has knowledge of her healign ability) And she isn't getting back up. Keeping in mind the fatigue of 6 gates isnt as deadly to gai than 7 obviously.
Not even close, you apparently just don't know how to interpret manga. Tsunade said he's no ordinary medic ninja, applying to his use of the chakra scalpel. However, Tsunade had performed no medical ninjutsu at the point that Kabuto said she's no ordinary person. HE then goes on to talk about how an ordinary person wouldn't be able to move, indicating he is obviously discussing durability.

All your attempting to do here is downplay Tsunade. But she obviously has more than slightly above average human durability given she didn't activate her seal until she arrived to the battlefield. Whereas, those with average human durability died before reaching the battlefield, cut to pieces. As opposed to what Tsunade referred to as minor injuries. You're simply prejudiced against Tsunade and you're doing your best to try and downplay her feats. IT's ok, but let's not pass of fancfiction as cannon.

Um Tsunade grew up in an age of war, let's not forget that when people were far more power than this now, and she has a crapton more experience that Sasuke. But even assuming she didn't, the fact remains, that Tsunade was able to coordinate attacks with a V2 Ay, which I don't think is possible if you can't see them. Further Bee, who has no doujutsu was able to keep up with V1 Ay no problem no just visibly but physically as well. The fact that Sasuke was overwhelmed isn't proof that everyone would be overwhelmed, because all of the gokage, gaara, excluded performed combos with Ay. And people beyond the precious Uchiha have been able to see him.

You literally have no validation for that claim, you just made it up on the spot. You don't know how much Tsunade has left in her lifespan. It takes less chakra to heal something back together than to grow a whole new one. There's no real reason on should regrow something if they have the means of putting it back together. Tsunade states that normal healing of the mystical palm sort takes a lot of chakra. Why would she waste chakra growing a lower half, when she is able to use her remaining chakra to follow her nindo as a medical ninja.

That's just a bad example, because the speed of light would rip a person a part, and destroy bones, as per the cutting force of the wind. When someone travels the speed of light, what they would show as would essentially be ribbons of who they were. The damage that would be dealt is on a completely different scale than what sixth gate guy can push out. Especially considering directly after the attack Kisame's clone still looked to be alive. She not only has durability she has a contingency plan of healing, which realistically Gai can't overcome.


My interpretation is bang on actually as i am not just analysing one or two pages but the whole fight, Of course she had to have used some form of medical ninjutsu because he sliced her bicep and abdomen muscle with the scapel . Let me quickly mention that once Kabuto had first pulled out his scaples she wasnt shock that he pulled them out but simply acknowledged that he was a medical ninja . keeping in ind Kabuto admitted that his scaples are weaker than your average scapel [reffer to last link] She then said he's no ordinary ninja when he applied his amazing skill and instinct Not once did she refer to the scalpels.
You're wrong here. One your interpretation is off, why? Because Tsunade was talking about him being a medical ninja, but she only saw him use one technique of the medical corps. Therefore, it stands to reason what she was therefore talking about, was his skill with the only technique she'd seen. She didn't need to say scalpel, because there was literally nothing else she could be talking about. But that was never the main point in the first place. The point was, Tsunade hadn't used any medical ninjutsu when Kabuto said she isn't an ordinary person, and when he said that a regular person would be barely moving. You're assuming she healed because an average person shouldn't be able to move given her injuries yet she could. And that's the entire reason that Kabuto said she's not a normal person. It has no connection, with her medical jutsu. It was a statement of durability. They were not complimenting each other on medical prowess. He didn't see her medical prowess until she had saved Naruto, from an attack that he thought couldn't be fixed.

Mate if i was downplaying Tsunade i would have blindly said she has poor durbility but instead i have aknowleded it and taken into account her lineage and its abilities. They have been known for their durable bodies but since we have no knowledge of her parent we have to assume that at most she is half senju. Why half? because we know her grandfather is hashirama. She has shown that she can heal by herself without the need of byakugo and im saying the durability that she does have along with healing slows down the damaging process.

hypothetical Example:

something is cutting her up 40dmg per second
she heals 20dmg per second
Her durability which cuts it by a further 5dmg

So in turn she is slowing down the damaging process long enough for the transport to be over. If you remember its light speed so she isn't there for long. now do you see my point. If you would stop being ignorant and treating me as a Tsunade hater which downplays abilities just because i don't like the character then you will make sense of what im trying to say. Im not going to give her feats that haven't even been implied or explicitly stated or illustrated.
Perhaps your not a Tsunade hater, but if you're not a Tsunade hater, that means that instead of actively ignoring facts, you just aren't aware of them.
Although you're a wrong about your speed of light example, when something travels at the speed of light we cannot say how long the travel is taking for them, we can only speak about it seeming instant insofar as our perspective. If we were to say that the same amount of time elapsed for Tsunade and Ay, as did the observers, then you would be saying that Tsunade and Ay were able to move into attacking positions faster than the speed of light. Which is absurd. So there's the whole Einstein's Theory of Relativity.
But, that's not the point either. The reason that I said, you were ignoring the facts is because, Tsunade did not heal until she got to the battlefield. Byakugou no jutsu is an extended regeneration jutsu. Creation Rebirth, what Tsunade used for the transport, treats only the injuries that are currently present. Thus, it does not make sense to say that Tsunade's durability is not exceptional. Because she could did not heal over time, that means that she came to the battle, with the total sum of injuries present. And they were minor. As opposed to what happened to others, that they arrived dead on arrival, and cut into pieces.

I could know how fast something is for 10 years and on the 11th year still be in the same position i was 10 years ago. Because she has the experience doesn't mean she can comprehend speed. That is ludicrous. Show me a scan that explicitly or strongly implicates that she could co-ordinate his speed because so far i have seen minimal backative on your part. and dont show me the scan where she says Naruto is able to keep up because she didnt say she could keep up and her expressions further go against your statement. She also comments o the speed of Naruto does this mean she can co-ordinate his speed too?

And comparing Bee to Tsuande OR Sasuke is irrelavant as he is faster than MS sasuke and furthemore Even bee struggled to keep up with Ay and had to use the power of hachibi as compensation. and just in case you want to bring up the lariat incident, they both had the intent of the same move and was moving in a straight line thus no room for error. Bee is fast enough to react to any sudden movements he makes due to hachibi

I have literally proven more than once that no one can keep up going against Ay. Hell even EMS madara had trouble keeping up against Ay's speed and again, because he wasnt fast enough to react he used susano'o The combos that were performed were carefully performed. Once Mei done lava ay then moved in.
So, perhaps this is my fault, I was speaking of combat experience, and not of knowledge. Those are different matters entirely and they do effect reaction speed, I could know exactly how fast a particular kung fuist punches, but whether I can evade that punch is based on how much of used the skill of battling. For instance, when I first met my grandmaster, he performed a move that I did not see happen. Only the end result. Now, after several years, in my system I can see and react to more things in his arsenal, because of experience.

Now that scan that you posted implied that Tsunade was observing the interaction of Ay, and Naruto. And Naruto would have been a yellow flash the entire time if Tsunade could not see his movements. But the fact that he didn't become a yellow flash or blur until he out sped Ay, signifies that visually she was keeping up with that battle. And thus, she'll be able to see Guy.

Now, it is true that Mei coordinated, an attack with. But it is not the same as what Tsunade did. Mei spat Lava at Madara, Ay attempted to blitz Madara, head on and Ay landed atop Madara's susanoo. Once Mei figured out where Madara, was going to land, she needed only to spew her lava there. She didn't not need to account for the proper speed for the lava to land in that location. As opposed to Ay, Oonoki, and Tsunade's combined attack. In that attack. Tsunade him Madara in one direction, Mei then altered the velocity with her water dragon jutsu. But Tsunade could not have know where to attack yet as Madara was still traveling away from her. She had to be able to anticipate where Oonoki and Ay would attack Madara, and then physically be there to attack directly after Ay. And since Madara's susanoo had not begin to leave Oonoki and Madara and was not being held there by any force. It reasonable to say that the time interval between their attacks was extremely small. And could only be done with adequate knowledge. No Tsunade, is not as fast as Ay, but she can certainly hold her own in fast paced battle.

The same is true of when she blitzed Manda. She had literally 0 clue as to where he was going to pop up from the ground. Both Jiraiya and Gamabunta were shocked when Manda was behind them. But, Tsunade who had been in the air since Jiraiya's katon (and when she jumped probably thought Manda would be there) was able to direct bunta's sword into Manda's mouth before Manda could complete his attack, and fast than Gamabunta could jump. That's another scenario of fast placed battle happening, and Tsunade keeping up with it.

Now on to your claim that no one can perceive Ay's speed. Madara very clearly blocked Ay's attack which was the only possible action, as Madara was in mid-air when Ay attacked him. And he had susanoo up because there was lava all around him. He was casually sitting and looking at Ay, attack in a futile manner. He wasn't trying to react, as he figured that Ay couldn't break through his susanoo. Minato, a non jinchuuriki, at the time perceived Ay's speed and reacted. So why do you think a doujutsu is necessary to see Ay, when we have five people who have been able to perceive Ay's speed. (Minato, Bee, Naruto, Madara, Tsunade) and only one of which have a doujutsu. Sasuke with doujutsu not being able to keep up, does not mean that everyone who doesn't have a doujutsu cannot keep up.

Now your just being an idiot and i have to use that word because its common sense that it would take more regenerating and more chakra to regenerate a whole lower half than to heal/ fuse back the two halves together. Common sense doesn't need to be clarified in the manga for me to know it. The fact that she has already used CR and turned into an old woman in P1 and has continued to do heavy regenerating since then means if she were to regenerate half of her body back together again that it would have some serious consequence. the fact that she was bleeding out and her veins had bee severed means she would have died regardless if it wasn't for katsuya. If she were to regenerate the veins there wouldn't be connected untill the whole body is regenerated thus the bleeding continuing anyway. And my point exactly. A jutsu like that would take up most of if not all of her chakra. and the pace at which she heals at it would be a waste even if she tried.
You stated that because Tsunade didn't do it that she couldn't do it. I was merely remarking on her doing it, would be counter productive to her actual goal. Which was not survival.
Though I am a bit puzzled by your bleeding out argument. As Tsunade was in half, long enough for Madara to reach the battlefield, and then she was still in have 27 chapters later healing the gokage. I imagine the time it takes to regenerate a bottom half would lead to less blood loss, than Tsunade being cut in half that entire time.

Difference with the kisame thing is that they wasn't focused on one point and he didn't have the intent to kill kisame at the time. Reffer to the contrast of their second and last encounter. If her brain isn't functioning properly then it affects her regeneration. Its that simple.
I would say that morning peacock works in the same way as multiple quick fire gunshots. Because of the recoil it's impossible to hit in the exact same place quickly. So if you did a double tap using a gun, the second bullet wouldn't go through the same whole has the first. That is the reason the peacock effect is created is because Guy's hands won't land in the same spot with each punch.
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Focused on one point, with that speed, just seems to be a contradiction. Guy did have killing intent at that time.
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Shes hiding not fighting.

Guess what? if shes not fighting no one wins you imbecile. Like i said thats not a fight.
Um...Jiraiya's battle with animal path? Also as Katsuyu is a piece of her power, then, it's still her fight.

If there were no episodes to further prove my point i would be at fault but in the episode he stops attacking when he realizes that it wasn't naruto that he hit. If you think im making this shit up please have a look. That is just the portrayal of that part and since its images we cant see it properly. Your statement would suggest her bones are harder than normal bone.

PS: if he was going for a 360 attack that would have gone through her
Orochimaru didn't realize Tsunade had stopped the attack until after he had cut as far as he could into her. He was stationary, I draw this conclusion based on the fact, that in the scans in which he was using his mouth to cut, his hair is always active. But when he realizes that he's cut Tsunade his hair is partially draped over his face.
 
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