[Discussion] Marineford war

[chopstickchakra]

Do you think the Whitebeard pirates would have had more success if the rest of the straw hats had reached Marineford before the war started?

Do you think they would have a better chance if the other Supernovas and their crews had appeared?

It's all speculation but I think it would have made a huge difference if they all took part in the war, and if Whitebeard had acted before being stabbed. If he had fought from the beginning it would have made it a lot easier for Luffy to reach Ace. Jinbe Ivan and Crocodile didn't really seem to do a whole lot either compared to what they showed from Impel Down but I guess you can chalk that up to fatigue.

 

[ArabianLuffy]

StrawHats + Supernovas = Shanks alone

However, yeah, probably everyone will survive.

 

[kiddish]

Well eitherway whitebeard died even if the SH came they would still lose
Whitebeard was like their ultimate weapon

 

[Souji]

Yes. The Supernovas could have handled the Vice Admirals and regular marines, allowing the Whitebeard Pirates to focus on the Admirals and Sengoku/Garp. The rest of the Strawhats would have assisted with the Shichibukai (Zoro vs Mihawk round 2 for example).

Again, the Whitebeard pirates would have won had it not been for inconsistent strategy and general chaos on the battlefield.

 

[SAHAN1993]

no way.even one admiral can solo all the supernova lowest diff what to say.shanks =all the supernova no way shanks>supernova at that time

 

[Olorin]

Whitebeard could one shot all the supernovas + their crews probably

Luffy couldnt do shit he only got to Ace because he had so much hel from pirates that were MILES above any supernova and because Garp let him do it

An admiral alone would be enough to solo them all, evan a VA on Vergos level could probably solo them all as they were pre TS

 

[chopstickchakra]

Whitebeard could one shot all the supernovas + their crews probably

Luffy couldnt do shit he only got to Ace because he had so much hel from pirates that were MILES above any supernova and because Garp let him do it

An admiral alone would be enough to solo them all, evan a VA on Vergos level could probably solo them all as they were pre TS

Kidd could have taken away most of the regular grunt marine's guns and helped stop a lot of the cannon fire, he could have also theoretically taken Mihawks sword from him. Law could have switched most of the VA's bodies around which leads to the question how would a logia users body react to being switched with anothers? I.E. Law mixes Kizaru and Aokiji's body parts together can they both still use their logia abilities? Probably but never mentioned. Bonny could have turned a bunch of the disarmed(by Kidd)grunts to babies or old men. X Drake was a former rear admiral so he was stronger than most of the Marines forces at the time plus he had a mythical zoan fruit and know they had some knowledge of the pacifista and how to handle them. Also they would have added another 9 ship of men and numbers are important when an enemy has 100,000 soldiers.

Then you got your strawhats, aside from Zoro and Sanji helping beat a lot of the grunts Chopper could have been there to help heal Luffy over the tension hormones and if need be go super rumble ball form making two monsters the size of Oars on the battlefield. Robin is possibly the best fighter against human opponents(though she becomes less useful as the enemies get taller) Usopp could have sniped the executioners because apparently out of 47 ships the Whitebeards didn't have a single sniper good enough to hit the execution platform which would have delayed the execution earlier. Nami could have electrocuted a bunch of the grunts freeing up some of the stronger pirates to focus on Admirals and Vice Admirals. Franky may have found some info in VegaPunks lab that would have helped them beat the pacifista easier(assuming that was canon only seen anime so far) Him and Brook could have helped stop cannon fire and low level marines.

Like I said Crocodile wasn't shown doing much nor was Jinbe or Ivan and Whitebeard waited until he was hit before he started taking part in the war, even Marco was pretty inactive. It just felt like the battles were being tilted so that the marines could look like they had a chance,

 

[WhistleBlower]

Wouldn't have mattered. Admiral Akainu Pre-timeskip MOST LIKELY would've owned ALL Supernova's + Straw Hat crew.

 

[Mephew D Kensei]

Superior strategy well maybe not(superior) but still effective strategy and under-hand tactics won the marines that war, adding the supanova to that war wld have been an un-accounted for disaster for the marines and their strategy wld've come off at the seems.
Ya any one of the Admirals could swat all 9crews away like blind flies but numbers make a lot of difference in a war even if fodder(which the supanova aren't), and with the way Luffy shined in that battle it showed the 11supanova wld fit right in. Having them there wld mean more simple marines wld be downed and the WB& allies with haki wld deal with the Admirals and saving Ace wld have been done much earlier.
Anyway some if not most of the so called new world veterans were weak and the supanova wld equal or be better really than most ''veterans.''

 

[silmarill]

His crew would be annihilated no problem

 

[Renpatsu Dei]

I don't think so, they would have all been all outmatched at that point, there were pacifista, warlords and vice admirals all over the place, none of them were on that level. Anyway, they would have completed their objectives if it wasn't for Ace's pride anyway.

 

[Olorin]

Kidd could have taken away most of the regular grunt marine's guns and helped stop a lot of the cannon fire, he could have also theoretically taken Mihawks sword from him. Law could have switched most of the VA's bodies around which leads to the question how would a logia users body react to being switched with anothers? I.E. Law mixes Kizaru and Aokiji's body parts together can they both still use their logia abilities? Probably but never mentioned. Bonny could have turned a bunch of the disarmed(by Kidd)grunts to babies or old men. X Drake was a former rear admiral so he was stronger than most of the Marines forces at the time plus he had a mythical zoan fruit and know they had some knowledge of the pacifista and how to handle them. Also they would have added another 9 ship of men and numbers are important when an enemy has 100,000 soldiers.

Then you got your strawhats, aside from Zoro and Sanji helping beat a lot of the grunts Chopper could have been there to help heal Luffy over the tension hormones and if need be go super rumble ball form making two monsters the size of Oars on the battlefield. Robin is possibly the best fighter against human opponents(though she becomes less useful as the enemies get taller) Usopp could have sniped the executioners because apparently out of 47 ships the Whitebeards didn't have a single sniper good enough to hit the execution platform which would have delayed the execution earlier. Nami could have electrocuted a bunch of the grunts freeing up some of the stronger pirates to focus on Admirals and Vice Admirals. Franky may have found some info in VegaPunks lab that would have helped them beat the pacifista easier(assuming that was canon only seen anime so far) Him and Brook could have helped stop cannon fire and low level marines.

Like I said Crocodile wasn't shown doing much nor was Jinbe or Ivan and Whitebeard waited until he was hit before he started taking part in the war, even Marco was pretty inactive. It just felt like the battles were being tilted so that the marines could look like they had a chance,

Kidd could have taken a lot of their weapons Yes, but that doesnt change the fact that the small marines were just duking it out for the hell of it, the battle was decided at the top admirals + garp+ sengoku+ Strongest VA + Sichibukai vs WB + commanders

Even if Kidd could take their weapons if Akainu wanted to he could just kill all the small time soldiers on the opposite side a loooot sooner than kid, also so would WB

Not to mention that Sengoku and Garp didnt actually do anything, neither did Mihawk and each of them could solo the supernovas no diff. He could have thoreticalLy taken Mihawks sword from him? .... Do you seriously believe that a noob like Kidd was at that point could do that? Not a chance!

Law and Kidd together were almost defeated by a Pacifista, Law switching body parts of Admirals? ... What a joke, post TS he could barely get Vergo. All the Supernova together couldent do nearly as much damage as WB did in 1 hit. And again there were ppl on the other side who were basically just there who could sole them no diff.

Zoro and Saji together cant even take down a pacifista and the rest of the SHs wouldnt be able to do shit ... thats why Oda made the wise decision to not include them in MF, it would be stupid since evn Luffy couldnt do anything and would be dead if it werent for the likes of Marco, WB, Jinbe, Croc, Boa, Marco, ... And ofc BUGGY!

And again all the Supernovas + their crews together could have been soloed by a LOT of ppl on the other side

The grunts didnt matter, what mattered was which of the big shots would win, if WB and the commanders could have taken down the admirals and sichibukai they would have won, but it went the other way around, as soon as WB died the war was over, and even a 1000000 grints on the pirates side would make NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL as Kiza ru could just have killEd the, with a laser, akainu could have burned them to death and aokiji could have frozen them all (he froze a tsunami bigger than marineford, im sure he could freeze fodder), also garp wich was the strongest person on the marines side and arguably on par with WB had yet to actually make a move

 

[chopstickchakra]

Kidd could have taken a lot of their weapons Yes, but that doesnt change the fact that the small marines were just duking it out for the hell of it, the battle was decided at the top admirals + garp+ sengoku+ Strongest VA + Sichibukai vs WB + commanders

Even if Kidd could take their weapons if Akainu wanted to he could just kill all the small time soldiers on the opposite side a loooot sooner than kid, also so would WB

Not to mention that Sengoku and Garp didnt actually do anything, neither did Mihawk and each of them could solo the supernovas no diff. He could have thoreticalLy taken Mihawks sword from him? .... Do you seriously believe that a noob like Kidd was at that point could do that? Not a chance!

Law and Kidd together were almost defeated by a Pacifista, Law switching body parts of Admirals? ... What a joke, post TS he could barely get Vergo. All the Supernova together couldent do nearly as much damage as WB did in 1 hit. And again there were ppl on the other side who were basically just there who could sole them no diff.

Zoro and Saji together cant even take down a pacifista and the rest of the SHs wouldnt be able to do shit ... thats why Oda made the wise decision to not include them in MF, it would be stupid since evn Luffy couldnt do anything and would be dead if it werent for the likes of Marco, WB, Jinbe, Croc, Boa, Marco, ... And ofc BUGGY!

And again all the Supernovas + their crews together could have been soloed by a LOT of ppl on the other side

The grunts didnt matter, what mattered was which of the big shots would win, if WB and the commanders could have taken down the admirals and sichibukai they would have won, but it went the other way around, as soon as WB died the war was over, and even a 1000000 grints on the pirates side would make NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL as Kiza ru could just have killEd the, with a laser, akainu could have burned them to death and aokiji could have frozen them all (he froze a tsunami bigger than marineford, im sure he could freeze fodder), also garp wich was the strongest person on the marines side and arguably on par with WB had yet to actually make a move

Clearly missing the point. Mihawk didn't do anything? He took out Luffy multiple times, if he was distracted with higher up opponents Luffy would have gotten further quicker and with more health left. Also the simple fact that their addition would distract the general army leaving more commanders of Whitebeards to fight higher ups and double team them rather than go 1v1. Jozu and whitebeard could have killed Aokiji if they fought him at the same time but they're were too many little guys for them to fight to be able to focus on the top enemies that way.

 

[Olorin]

Clearly missing the point. Mihawk didn't do anything? He took out Luffy multiple times, if he was distracted with higher up opponents Luffy would have gotten further quicker and with more health left. Also the simple fact that their addition would distract the general army leaving more commanders of Whitebeards to fight higher ups and double team them rather than go 1v1. Jozu and whitebeard could have killed Aokiji if they fought him at the same time but they're were too many little guys for them to fight to be able to focus on the top enemies that way.

how am I missing the point, 5 pacifista would be enough to deal with the Supernova, or Kuma alone!

No Mihawk didnt do practically anything, he was mostly just there slashing everything, he could have taken Luffy out easily but the plot called for Luffy to continue his route towards Ace, the entire SH crew couldn't do jack shit against Kuma do you think Luffy alone in a real fight against Mihawk would survive more than a few minutes or even less? The only real opponent Mihawk had was Vista and even then they looked like they just had a bit of fun. So yea Mihawk could solo all the Supernova.

the fodder was just there ... Garp and WB could probably have just knocked them all out qith Conq Haki if they wanted to, an army of fodder couldnt do shit against Luffy on Ennies Lobby, what makes you think they could do something against WB, his commanders and the admirals

11 supernovas would not have been able to turn the war, they could maybe distract a bit but when the first real enemy locked on to them they would be gonners

Kizaru playing with them on Sabaody and Kuma annihilating the SHs just proves my point

the Marineford was much to big for the Supernovas at that time, let alone their crews

fodder in big numbers might be somewhat useful but when you have the likes of WB, Garp, Sengoku, the Admirals, the Sichibukai, WB commanders involved they just can't turn the final outcome

Yes. The Supernovas could have handled the Vice Admirals and regular marines, allowing the Whitebeard Pirates to focus on the Admirals and Sengoku/Garp. The rest of the Strawhats would have assisted with the Shichibukai (Zoro vs Mihawk round 2 for example).

Again, the Whitebeard pirates would have won had it not been for inconsistent strategy and general chaos on the battlefield.

Vergo was a vice admiral, the pacifista were giving the Supernova such a hard time and were than 1 shoted by post TS Luffy, a VA which would be kind of on Vergos level which is somewhat close to Luffy level would than be waaaay above a pacifista

so I dont think the Supernovas would do such a good job against VAs

and cmon, strawhats assist against the Sichibukai??? did you forget what Kuma did? Zoro vs Mihawk would have ended in a same way than it did the first time

Wouldn't have mattered. Admiral Akainu Pre-timeskip MOST LIKELY would've owned ALL Supernova's + Straw Hat crew.

Kizaru could have easily soloed them all on Sabaody so I'm pretty sure Akainu could too

 

[Hexuze]

No guys you are forgetting Ace will still most likely die. Ace wanted to fight back Akainu for talking shit about WB, that fact will never change. Ace would of fought till death.

As for the supernova's there will be a lot of backstabbing especially with Kidd he would prob. try to kill WB but end up getting smashed.

Ace would of also stopped anyone who tried to interfere with his fight as well.

 

[chopstickchakra]

how am I missing the point, 5 pacifista would be enough to deal with the Supernova, or Kuma alone!

2 supernova took out a pacifista(presumed) Also Kidd not being able to fight a Pacifista was a plot hole seeing as they're made of metal and he has magnetism, he should have even at that level been able to rip off an arm and so on until it was disabled. Then a group of Whitebeard pirates took out three pacifista. You have 5 pairs of two supernovas to fight 1 pacifista each or more logically 10 supernova charging 1 pacifista at a time overwhelming them. Zoro who has cut steel and Daz Bones should well be able to cut off a pacifista arm if he reaches it and Killer would be able to help him get close enough.

No Mihawk didnt do practically anything, he was mostly just there slashing everything, he could have taken Luffy out easily but the plot called for Luffy to continue his route towards Ace, the entire SH crew couldn't do jack shit against Kuma do you think Luffy alone in a real fight against Mihawk would survive more than a few minutes or even less? The only real opponent Mihawk had was Vista and even then they looked like they just had a bit of fun. So yea Mihawk could solo all the Supernova.

Point is with Kidd screwing with Mihawks blade he wouldn't have focused on Luffy and Luffy would have taken less damage leaving him with more strength to fight vice admirals. The only VA Luffy couldn't handle from what was shown is Garp. I never said he couldn't solo the supernova's I said their presence would distract him from Luffy and free up more Whitebeard Pirates to fight him while the supernova's Destroyed the grunts that were taking up the Whitebeard commanders energy and time.

the fodder was just there ... Garp and WB could probably have just knocked them all out qith Conq Haki if they wanted to, an army of fodder couldnt do shit against Luffy on Ennies Lobby, what makes you think they could do something against WB, his commanders and the admirals

11 supernovas would not have been able to turn the war, they could maybe distract a bit but when the first real enemy locked on to them they would be gonners

Kizaru playing with them on Sabaody and Kuma annihilating the SHs just proves my point

Kuma fought a tired and worn down SH crew. They've seen him twice now and know his style, if you think he'd tank the whole SH crew at full strength you're only fooling yourself. Hell even half dead they put up a decent resistance against them at Sabaody.

the Marineford was much to big for the Supernovas at that time, let alone their crews

fodder in big numbers might be somewhat useful but when you have the likes of WB, Garp, Sengoku, the Admirals, the Sichibukai, WB commanders involved they just can't turn the final outcome

Luffy's beaten 3 Shichibukai already(if you count Hancock's refusal to fight him) So it seems pretty obvious most of the Shichibukai don't pose much threat to the supernovas with the exception of Doflamingo and Mihawk.

Vergo was a vice admiral, the pacifista were giving the Supernova such a hard time and were than 1 shoted by post TS Luffy, a VA which would be kind of on Vergos level which is somewhat close to Luffy level would than be waaaay above a pacifista

so I dont think the Supernovas would do such a good job against VAs

and cmon, strawhats assist against the Sichibukai??? did you forget what Kuma did? Zoro vs Mihawk would have ended in a same way than it did the first time

See above about Kuma fight

Kizaru could have easily soloed them all on Sabaody so I'm pretty sure Akainu could too

Also as for you not getting it you should go re-read the OT, I never said they would win the war or keep Ace alive by participating I said Luffy would have been able to reach Ace easier if they were their fighting as well as Whitebeard taking action sooner as well as Jinbe, Ivan and Crocodile fighting the Marines more.

As to whether they would have won or not, well if Ace had been freed earlier Squardo may not have been lied to by Akainu which may not have spurred the fight there and with Ace back in the fight during the escape(not focusing on Akainu) their is a significant chance they would have gotten away.

 

[Olorin]

Also as for you not getting it you should go re-read the OT, I never said they would win the war or keep Ace alive by participating I said Luffy would have been able to reach Ace easier if they were their fighting as well as Whitebeard taking action sooner as well as Jinbe, Ivan and Crocodile fighting the Marines more.

As to whether they would have won or not, well if Ace had been freed earlier Squardo may not have been lied to by Akainu which may not have spurred the fight there and with Ace back in the fight during the escape(not focusing on Akainu) their is a significant chance they would have gotten away.

Yea ok sure I stopped reading at SH vs Kuma at full power and Mihawk vs Kidd (no point to it really) ... If Kidd messed with his sword hed be dead in a flash

Also, plot hole? You know not all metals are magnetic, in fact most of them arent

 

[chopstickchakra]

Yea ok sure I stopped reading at SH vs Kuma at full power and Mihawk vs Kidd (no point to it really) ... If Kidd messed with his sword hed be dead in a flash

Also, plot hole? You know not all metals are magnetic, in fact most of them arent

Did you see any Gold or aluminum in him and most metals that are sturdy enough to withstand attacks are, and they're typically steel.

 

[Olorin]

Did you see any Gold or aluminum in him and most metals that are sturdy enough to withstand attacks are, and they're typically steel.

They were created by (the dude who created dragons) do you seriously think that somone like him couldnt build a robot that is not affected by magnetism?

 

[Olorin]

Did you see any Gold or aluminum in him and most metals that are sturdy enough to withstand attacks are, and they're typically steel.

They were created by Vegapunk (the dude who created dragons) do you seriously think that somone like him couldnt build a robot that is not affected by magnetism?