[Spoilers] Mangekyou Sharingan=not overpowered after all.

EternalUchihaSasuke

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If anyone has seen the latest manga(463), it was Raikage vs Sasuke. Sasuke failed with Chidori, so he had to resort to MS jutsu's. Then Raikage "power bombed" Sasuke into the ground, LOL. But Sasuke used Susano'o to shield himself from the damage. Then he tried to hit Raikage with Amaterasu, but Raikage dodged it because he was building a vast amount of lightning chakra around himself, which in turn made him move at the speed of teleporting. Basically when Raikage builds up his lightning chakra armor, he's even faster than Minato's normal speed.

Then when Raikage was about to punch Sasuke from behind(here's where the point to my thread starts), Sasuke had to create a shield of Amaterasu's flames on the outer edges of Susano'o. So since Sasuke doesn't have Yatas mirror or Totsuka's sword, Susano'o is nothing but a spiritual pair of ribs and arms around him. Seems like one can still slip past these limbs if aimed correctly.

Itachi's MS jutsu's are extremely powerful, but without Yatas mirror and Totsuka's sword(like how we have just witnessed in the latest manga), I don't think Itachi would have been able to kill someone like Orochimaru. If Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu and Susano'o WITHOUT Yatas mirror and Totsuka's sword are what the true MS jutsu's are meant to be, then Sasuke probably would have killed Itachi back in their fight fair and square.

So my bottom line is, Raikage is a "KAGE" level shinobi. Same goes with Gaara, Hiruzen, Tsunade......basically any other Kage, what have you. So since Raikage seems to be making short work of Sasuke(who has the Mangekyou Sharingan working at full capacity), is the MS really as powerful as we thought?

My answer is still yes, but basically shinobi are elected Kage for a reason. Like Hiruzen said, "Never underestimate the Hokage"They are the strongest and wisest of all shinobi in their village. (Best person for the job.) If Sasuke is having this much trouble with Raikage, I would like to see Sasuke fight Hiruzen(in his prime) or even Minato. Mostly because I like seeing Sasuke get his @$$ kicked!!

The bolded sentences are the points I'm making. Thoughts?? Comments?? Sasuke fans?? :eek:
all kages are DIFFERENT. gaara, that old man, etc will get RAPED by sasuke.
tsunade couldnt even beat orochimaru WHEN HE HAD NO HANDS. she almost got beat by kabuto, gaara got raped by sasukes taijutsu in the chuunin exams, now he has mangekyou and all these new jutsus and speeds you're insane if you think gaara would win, he was given kage while he had his beast, its gone now and even with it naruto beat his ass when he was a kid.
kankuro and temari wouldnt even be able to scratch sasukes robe,
i doubt that woman with the bang and her jounin combine would beat sasuke.

raikage is extremely powerful and moves at the speed of light. also if minato fought sasuke when he had ems sasuke would win. :rolleyes:

people trying to talk sht about sasuke because he is fighting the strongest kage, samurai, and his 2 jounin at once and his having a little trouble, who wouldnt have trouble?


and yes the MS is extremely powerful, not everyone can dodge amaterasu, it hit raikage for a second before he teleported, and sasuno cant be broken by everyone(raikage is extremely strong, lets see that woman or the old guy or anyone else at the summit break it) did you see how tsukyomi put kakashi in the hospital for a few weeks and made raikages jounin unable to move? Ms pwns
 
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Steinbiz

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all kages are DIFFERENT. gaara, that old man, etc will get RAPED by sasuke.
tsunade couldnt even beat orochimaru WHEN HE HAD NO HANDS. she almost got beat by kabuto, gaara got raped by sasukes taijutsu in the chuunin exams, now he has mangekyou and all these new jutsus and speeds you're insane if you think gaara would win, he was given kage while he had his beast, its gone now and even with it naruto beat his ass when he was a kid.
kankuro and temari wouldnt even be able to scratch sasukes robe,
i doubt that woman with the bang and her jounin combine would beat sasuke.

raikage is extremely powerful and moves at the speed of light. also if minato fought sasuke when he had ems sasuke would win. :rolleyes:

people trying to talk sht about sasuke because he is fighting the strongest kage, samurai, and his 2 jounin at once and his having a little trouble, who wouldnt have trouble?


and yes the MS is extremely powerful, not everyone can dodge amaterasu, it hit raikage for a second before he teleported, and sasuno cant be broken by everyone(raikage is extremely strong, lets see that woman or the old guy or anyone else at the summit break it) did you see how tsukyomi put kakashi in the hospital for a few weeks and made raikages jounin unable to move? Ms pwns
lol. i'd expect nothing less from the sasugay tard. i'm not going to even argue, because you love sasuke too much and you're blinded by false facts.

P.S. when you said sasuke can beat minato, i literally laughed in my chair after coughing on my mountain dew. you are so dumb dude, lol.
 
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chonoro2

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i dont like sasuke either but i do gotta give him credit for wats happenin.i mean he hasnt had the ms for as long as itachi and madara so i wouldnt expect him to master it all that quickly i do think he can beat gaara tho not because of the past but because if deidara was beat by sasuke then yea...as far aas the other kages idk because i, i mean we have never seen wat they are capable of.because if he was gettin owned by the old kage now then ppl would say the same about raikage instead.so we dont kno yet.we all kno as much as i hate and others lol sasuke will survive and maybe prevail in tthe end because itd be a shame if naruto's bf dies before he saves him.
 

leafeater

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all kages are DIFFERENT. gaara, that old man, etc will get RAPED by sasuke.
tsunade couldnt even beat orochimaru WHEN HE HAD NO HANDS. she almost got beat by kabuto, gaara got raped by sasukes taijutsu in the chuunin exams, now he has mangekyou and all these new jutsus and speeds you're insane if you think gaara would win, he was given kage while he had his beast, its gone now and even with it naruto beat his ass when he was a kid.
kankuro and temari wouldnt even be able to scratch sasukes robe,
i doubt that woman with the bang and her jounin combine would beat sasuke.

raikage is extremely powerful and moves at the speed of light. also if minato fought sasuke when he had ems sasuke would win. :rolleyes:

people trying to talk sht about sasuke because he is fighting the strongest kage, samurai, and his 2 jounin at once and his having a little trouble, who wouldnt have trouble?


and yes the MS is extremely powerful, not everyone can dodge amaterasu, it hit raikage for a second before he teleported, and sasuno cant be broken by everyone(raikage is extremely strong, lets see that woman or the old guy or anyone else at the summit break it) did you see how tsukyomi put kakashi in the hospital for a few weeks and made raikages jounin unable to move? Ms pwns
Personally, I would think that you would like the view that the MS/EMS is not overpowered. Those MS/EMS doujutsu are incredibly powerful, and Sasuke is learning on the fly how to use them. Props to Sasuke. He's not using his Katon jutsu because that Raikage jounin is keeping up Suiton jutsu prepared, which limits Sasuke, whose team is worthless.

What pleases me is that the Raikage dodged Ameratsu (it didn't hit him, though it may have glanced his lightning shield.) and smashed through some version of Susanoo. It's important to see that jutsu are not invincible. We know that none are, and it's nice to see that proven. People (some real people) hate invincible jutsu, I personally don't mind because I know it's a matter of time, like we have now with Ameratsu.

Right now, no one is getting involved between Sasuke and the Raikage except his guards and some ass poor Sasuke "guards." If they do, they'll likely be killed, like that dumbass Samurai the got hit by Ameratsu.

Despite his MS, Sasuke is in a lot of trouble, that's not a bad thing. Sasuke and Naruto are still number one together, so it's more interesting to talk about strength's and weaknesses of jutsu now for the MS.

Regarding Minato, I have no idea how you can claim this. Minato is dead, and Sasuke doesn't have the EMS. Pre-time skip Gaara kicked Sasuke's ass. Sasuke's taijutsu (copied from Lee) wasn't enough, it was the Chidori that broke Gaara's sand shield. I don't know what would happen with a post-time-skip Gaara.

You're very adamant in your beliefs, which is good. Just try to flesh out your ideas out a bit more please, so we can better understand them. You made some good points. Cheers.:sasuke:
 

Valkyria

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all kages are DIFFERENT. gaara, that old man, etc will get RAPED by sasuke.
tsunade couldnt even beat orochimaru WHEN HE HAD NO HANDS. she almost got beat by kabuto, gaara got raped by sasukes taijutsu in the chuunin exams, now he has mangekyou and all these new jutsus and speeds you're insane if you think gaara would win, he was given kage while he had his beast, its gone now and even with it naruto beat his ass when he was a kid.
kankuro and temari wouldnt even be able to scratch sasukes robe,
i doubt that woman with the bang and her jounin combine would beat sasuke.

raikage is extremely powerful and moves at the speed of light. also if minato fought sasuke when he had ems sasuke would win. :rolleyes:

people trying to talk sht about sasuke because he is fighting the strongest kage, samurai, and his 2 jounin at once and his having a little trouble, who wouldnt have trouble?


and yes the MS is extremely powerful, not everyone can dodge amaterasu, it hit raikage for a second before he teleported, and sasuno cant be broken by everyone(raikage is extremely strong, lets see that woman or the old guy or anyone else at the summit break it) did you see how tsukyomi put kakashi in the hospital for a few weeks and made raikages jounin unable to move? Ms pwns
Way, way, way to jump the gun. You don't know if Sasuke will get EMS, you know next to little about Minato's fighting style and I hope you know what 'past tense' is.
 

Choujuu Giga

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Personally, I would think that you would like the view that the MS/EMS is not overpowered. Those MS/EMS doujutsu are incredibly powerful, and Sasuke is learning on the fly how to use them. Props to Sasuke. He's not using his Katon jutsu because that Raikage jounin is keeping up Suiton jutsu prepared, which limits Sasuke, whose team is worthless.

What pleases me is that the Raikage dodged Ameratsu (it didn't hit him, though it may have glanced his lightning shield.) and smashed through some version of Susanoo. It's important to see that jutsu are not invincible. We know that none are, and it's nice to see that proven. People (some real people) hate invincible jutsu, I personally don't mind because I know it's a matter of time, like we have now with Ameratsu.

Right now, no one is getting involved between Sasuke and the Raikage except his guards and some ass poor Sasuke "guards." If they do, they'll likely be killed, like that dumbass Samurai the got hit by Ameratsu.

Despite his MS, Sasuke is in a lot of trouble, that's not a bad thing. Sasuke and Naruto are still number one together, so it's more interesting to talk about strength's and weaknesses of jutsu now for the MS.

Regarding Minato, I have no idea how you can claim this. Minato is dead, and Sasuke doesn't have the EMS. Pre-time skip Gaara kicked Sasuke's ass. Sasuke's taijutsu (copied from Lee) wasn't enough, it was the Chidori that broke Gaara's sand shield. I don't know what would happen with a post-time-skip Gaara.

You're very adamant in your beliefs, which is good. Just try to flesh out your ideas out a bit more please, so we can better understand them. You made some good points. Cheers.:sasuke:
Your post was very polite, mature and has made good points. Taking your quote "He's not using his Katon jutsu because that Raikage jounin is keeping up Suiton jutsu prepared, which limits Sasuke, whose team is worthless." You seem to have logic in your opinion that does seem to be a very likely answer as to why Sasuke hasn?t been using any Katon jutsu. Darui could definitely be on standby ready to use a Suiton jutsu to counter Sasuke. What I see is the Raikage having used precaution as had overestimated Sasuke by having his two Jonin fighting alongside him and prior info on Sasuke as well. Then in the recent chapter, he has now underestimated Sasuke quoting that "It's over" when there may be a possibility that Sasuke can turn things around.

Sasuke doesn?t want to fight the Raikage, the problem is that he is in Sasuke?s path of completing his goal. Sasuke could lose and so could the Raikage. There is also the possibility that the fight will be broken up or Madara coming in and save Sasuke as this as been on a lot of people?s minds. Although Madara has said that Naruto and Sasuke have a destined path to fight so if Sasuke is on the verge of losing why would Madara rescue him when it would obviously mean that Sasuke would be no match for Naruto. The fight is still continuing, so it is still too early for people to start placing a final victor. If Sasuke beats Raikage, I don?t think that he would kill him because he?d be wasting his chakra. He has a new purpose and it is aiming to kill the three elders.​
 

Choujuu Giga

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no actually sasuke's suano'o IS in fact fully developed. if you're refering to totsuka's sword and yatas mirror, those don't count. those weapons were only weilded by itachi. when itachi died, so did those weapons. susano'o is nothing but a spiritual rib cage with arms, that's it. stop buttering susano'o up.
You are very ill-informed if you honestly think that Sasuke?s Susanoo tech if fully developed. This is my proof: "Sasuke however activates his Mangekyou Sharingan, and uses the ribs of an incomplete Susanoo to cushion himself from what would have otherwise been a fatal blow". Here is the link in case your denial is still a factor:



So make sure that you research all the facts before posting or even starting your own thread with nothing to back up what you say. Yes, the Yata no Kagami and Totsuka no Tsurugi are weapons that Itachi searched for, and when found they were equipped to Susanoo. Can you show me proof that the premature Susanoo?s weapons died along with Itachi? No, you can not because it has yet to be confirmed. You quoted "when itachi died, so did those weapons" well that is not logical at all seeing as those weapons were ?inanimate objects? which in other words are lifeless.

So far, Itachi has passed down two Mangekyou techs to Sasuke, so who?s to say that Tsukuyomi won?t be passed down as well. There is no proof yet, that the premature Susanoo currently used by Sasuke does not contain the two legendary weapons or in fact is complete. When Sasuke uses a complete Susanoo we will then see if it in fact has the weapons or not. Now, I will admit that most of what I?ve just debated is not yet confirmed either but it makes more logical sense then what you have stated in my opinion.​
 

squiremarcus

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You are very ill-informed if you honestly think that Sasuke?s Susanoo tech if fully developed. This is my proof: "Sasuke however activates his Mangekyou Sharingan, and uses the ribs of an incomplete Susanoo to cushion himself from what would have otherwise been a fatal blow". Here is the link in case your denial is still a factor:



So make sure that you research all the facts before posting or even starting your own thread with nothing to back up what you say. Yes, the Yata no Kagami and Totsuka no Tsurugi are weapons that Itachi searched for, and when found they were equipped to Susanoo. Can you show me proof that the premature Susanoo?s weapons died along with Itachi? No, you can not because it has yet to be confirmed. You quoted "when itachi died, so did those weapons" well that is not logical at all seeing as those weapons were ?inanimate objects? which in other words are lifeless.

So far, Itachi has passed down two Mangekyou techs to Sasuke, so who?s to say that Tsukuyomi won?t be passed down as well. There is no proof yet, that the premature Susanoo currently used by Sasuke does not contain the two legendary weapons or in fact is complete. When Sasuke uses a complete Susanoo we will then see if it in fact has the weapons or not. Now, I will admit that most of what I?ve just debated is not yet confirmed either but it makes more logical sense then what you have stated in my opinion.​
I agree with you but in the future don't refer to narutopedia to prove points becuase it is written by fans so it could easily be wrong
 

Steinbiz

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You are very ill-informed if you honestly think that Sasuke’s Susanoo tech if fully developed. This is my proof: "Sasuke however activates his Mangekyou Sharingan, and uses the ribs of an incomplete Susanoo to cushion himself from what would have otherwise been a fatal blow". Here is the link in case your denial is still a factor:



So make sure that you research all the facts before posting or even starting your own thread with nothing to back up what you say. Yes, the Yata no Kagami and Totsuka no Tsurugi are weapons that Itachi searched for, and when found they were equipped to Susanoo. Can you show me proof that the premature Susanoo’s weapons died along with Itachi? No, you can not because it has yet to be confirmed. You quoted "when itachi died, so did those weapons" well that is not logical at all seeing as those weapons were “inanimate objects” which in other words are lifeless.

So far, Itachi has passed down two Mangekyou techs to Sasuke, so who’s to say that Tsukuyomi won’t be passed down as well. There is no proof yet, that the premature Susanoo currently used by Sasuke does not contain the two legendary weapons or in fact is complete. When Sasuke uses a complete Susanoo we will then see if it in fact has the weapons or not. Now, I will admit that most of what I’ve just debated is not yet confirmed either but it makes more logical sense then what you have stated in my opinion.​
lol, you're refering to narutopedia you freaking noob. don't ever call me wrong when you read narutopedia. narutopedia is information gathered by anyone. then they can edit it onto the website themselves. you have no proof that sasuke's susano'o has yatas mirror or totsuka's sword. i say it doesn't because when itachi activated susano'o, the weapons unfolded with it at the same time. sasuke has activated it and there are no signs of those weapons. even in the new spoilers for this weeks manga, sasuke has a newer susano'o that seems fully developed. but it's black and still lacks the legendary weapons.

nothing has more solid facts and confirmed details than the actual manga.

don't ever call me ill-informed again.
 
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leafeater

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lol, you're refering to narutopedia you freaking noob. don't ever call me wrong when you read narutopedia. narutopedia is information gathered by anyone. then they can edit it onto the website themselves. you have no proof that sasuke's susano'o has yatas mirror or totsuka's sword. i say it doesn't because when itachi activated susano'o, the weapons unfolded with it at the same time. sasuke has activated it and there are no signs of those weapons. even in the new spoilers for this weeks manga, sasuke has a newer susano'o that seems fully developed. but it's black and still lacks the legendary weapons.

nothing has more solid facts and confirmed details than the actual manga.

don't ever call me ill-informed again.
1.) Easy Tiger. He's new and it wasn't personal. You are correct on everything you say as far as I can tell, though you shouldn't mention spoilers in a regular thread in my opinion if you could please avoid it though it's hard. Just ease up on the new guy, and yes, hew was incorrect to reference anything besides the manga. Now back to your thread.

2.) Sasuke's Susanoo may be black because of Ameratsu, but that's a guess. Otherwise Sasuke might be, "WTF!", with there being no sword or mirror. Any guesses on how it works other than to defend the user. Obviously it's the most powerful MS jutsu I guess because it requires both eyes to activate. It's definately a defensive jutsu, but I'm not sure if it's like a summons of some sort and can attack. These attacks and defenses won't be invincble, but they'd be damn powerful if they're Ameratsu laced. The other thought, which I think someone else mentioned is that because Sasuke's Susanoo looks so different he summoned a completely different "god/demon" whatever the hell it is. I'm quite curious how it works without those and if Sasuke has used it before. :sasuke:

3a.) Honestly, I don't like the Raikage's personality, but I do appreciate his ability to debunk the almightiness of the MS that existed before.

3b.) The MS/EMS is still too powerful for me, but I can forsee now, that a sage mode Naruto will have less trouble with it than I thought. At his speed neither Tsukiyomi nor Ameratsu will land, and we've all been concerned about Ameratsu. Let's see how Susanoo handles. I've always said every jutsu has a weakness and is not invincible and that it's always a matter of time before we learn how to counter the MS jutsu. That time is now. :naruto:
 

Steinbiz

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1.) Easy Tiger. He's new and it wasn't personal. You are correct on everything you say as far as I can tell, though you shouldn't mention spoilers in a regular thread in my opinion if you could please avoid it though it's hard. Just ease up on the new guy, and yes, hew was incorrect to reference anything besides the manga. Now back to your thread.

2.) Sasuke's Susanoo may be black because of Ameratsu, but that's a guess. Otherwise Sasuke might be, "WTF!", with there being no sword or mirror. Any guesses on how it works other than to defend the user. Obviously it's the most powerful MS jutsu I guess because it requires both eyes to activate. It's definately a defensive jutsu, but I'm not sure if it's like a summons of some sort and can attack. These attacks and defenses won't be invincble, but they'd be damn powerful if they're Ameratsu laced. The other thought, which I think someone else mentioned is that because Sasuke's Susanoo looks so different he summoned a completely different "god/demon" whatever the hell it is. I'm quite curious how it works without those and if Sasuke has used it before. :sasuke:

3a.) Honestly, I don't like the Raikage's personality, but I do appreciate his ability to debunk the almightiness of the MS that existed before.

3b.) The MS/EMS is still too powerful for me, but I can forsee now, that a sage mode Naruto will have less trouble with it than I thought. At his speed neither Tsukiyomi nor Ameratsu will land, and we've all been concerned about Ameratsu. Let's see how Susanoo handles. I've always said every jutsu has a weakness and is not invincible and that it's always a matter of time before we learn how to counter the MS jutsu. That time is now. :naruto:
1.) Sorry, I was being stupid and cranky i guess. xd

2.) I agree that Susano'o is the most powerful ability of the 3 MS jutsu's. It seems that being just a defence is weird, but without those legendary weapons, it doesn't seem to have any further effects. The new black Susano'o is most interesting. We know it can defend against blunt attacks, and with amaterasu around it, it can defend against most attacks. "So what does the new darker demon possess?" is my question. It'll be answered in upcoming weeks I assume.

3a.) Raikage is a blockheaded numbskull, but he's a strong mother. So far he's very fast and pretty powerful in strength. The fact that he was defeating MS jutsu was a relief because now I know someone like Naruto in sage mode can defeat Sasuke. (Not regarding the new black Susano'o)

3b.)Naruto has never battled Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu himself, but he's witnessed both jutsu a couple times second-hand. So while in sage mode, he'll be able to watch his own back most likely. Jiraiya told Naruto of how Itachi's genjutsu was something to be feared. He most likely reminded Naruto of Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu's abilities. Naruto has never seen Susano'o, so when the time comes for Naruto and Sasuke to fight, I wonder what his approach will be. But who knows, if Raikage's "Raiger Bomb" can crack a couple of Susano'o's ribs, then maybe Rasenshuriken can tear Susano'o up. Just a thought though.

Basically overall, Leafeater, I agree with you. I agree that EVERY jutsu has a weakness, even if it's hard to find. Susano'o is not a god-given gift. Naruto WILL defeat it. As far as i'm concerned, Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu don't pose a threat to Naruto at this point. Seeing how he's mastered shadow clones and whatnot.
 
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Choujuu Giga

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lol, you're refering to narutopedia you freaking noob. don't ever call me wrong when you read narutopedia. narutopedia is information gathered by anyone. then they can edit it onto the website themselves. you have no proof that sasuke's susano'o has yatas mirror or totsuka's sword. i say it doesn't because when itachi activated susano'o, the weapons unfolded with it at the same time. sasuke has activated it and there are no signs of those weapons. even in the new spoilers for this weeks manga, sasuke has a newer susano'o that seems fully developed. but it's black and still lacks the legendary weapons.

nothing has more solid facts and confirmed details than the actual manga.

don't ever call me ill-informed again.
I?d like to first start off by saying domo arigatou leafeater for having my back.

Now, your right I will admit that Narutopedia is edited by anyone on the web but in my opinion everything they edit in that website pertains strictly to the manga and anime. Not just random people posting their random thoughts. I used this as a source yes but there have been people that agree with me on Narutopedia?s statements. The truth is I have no proof, your right again but I do think that Itachi wouldn?t have passed down an incomplete Susanoo rather than the complete version. I also think that if Itachi passed these two techs then why not Tsukuyomi? If this happens then Itachi really did pass down every one of his Mangekyou Sharingan tech to his brother.

I stated that you were ill-informed if you thought that Sasuke?s Susanoo tech was fully developed. From your own quote ?sasuke has a newer susano'o that seems fully developed.? You now say that Sasuke?s Susanoo now seems to be fully developed. I guess I wasn?t wrong in saying that to you because in your post before you said that his tech was fully developed you?re now stating that it seems that way. Oh I didn?t appreciate you posting a spoiler without even adding the spoiler code in case I didn?t read them or any other reader passes by.

You also quoted ?Naruto has never battled Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu himself, but he's witnessed both jutsu a couple times second-hand? well I have trouble believing the part with Tsukuyomi, could you tell me the chapter when Naruto seeing Tsukuyomi occurred? If you do, I will acknowledge that.​
 

icci20

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I dont remember the exact chapter. but it was when naruto and jiraiya started their search for tsunade.

itachi used tsukiyami on sasuke in the hall of the inn as naruto watched.

then a little later he watched itachi use amateratsu to escape the toads stomach.
 
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