[Manga approved] Not-enhancd Kamui isn't much more hax then other MS abilities

[KCMNaruto]

[Manga approved] No enhanced Kamui isn't much more hax then other MS abilities

Hello guys, I would like to estabilish the fact about Kamui, so please bare with me.

IT IS NOT BASHING/UNDERRATING/HATING thread in any form I still admit Kamui is hax and great but it is not as hax as people made it out to be.

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^^ Kakashi explained that Obito's eye ability was empowered with Rikudou chakra, and we know that

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^^by mixing Indra's and Ashura's chakra in Rikudou's chakra get created. Rinnegan is effect of eyeballs/optical nerves reacting to this Rikudou chakra.

and:

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^^ Obito has implanted Madara's Rinnegan in his left empty socket since the fourth great shinobi war began.

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^^ Obito stated himself that it was not just eye power but also it's chakra(aka Rikudou chakra contained in that eye) which make him almost loosing himself.

Rinnegan is not joke.

IMO ALL OBITO's KAMUI FEATS are not BELONG TO Kamui but to Rikudou powered or in short Rikudou Kamui.

Even before it was enhanced by Senjuu DNA as Obito had it before even obtaining MS..., so original kamui would be much weaker...

also about Kakashi's Kamui feats:

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^^ Kyuubi enhanced Kamui is what Kakashi has used and it was three times more powerfull then normal Kamui.

even before his chakra was recharged inside of Kurama cloak:

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^^ Kakashi got better inside Kurama's cloak in such short time which prove my point.

Anyway if we goona say Kamui is the best ms ability, then we should compare Rikudou/kyuubi chakra powered Amaterasu, Rikudoukyuubi chakra powered Sussano, Rikudoukyuubi chakra powered Kotoamatsukomi, Rikudoukyuubi chakra powered Tuskuyomi etc.

Arguable but pure Kamui was only feats of Obito before he implanted Rinnegan in himself and yet it was boosted by Senjuu DNA.

Conclusion: kamui is same hax as other ms techniques. It is just boosted Kamui via Rikudou chakra or Kyuubi chakra which make it such Op in compare to not powered MS abilities.

 

[BlazeRelease]

Rikudo chakra legendary weapons... -shudders

Imagine all of that power boosted into Amaterasu.

 

[VongolaX]

Well which variant of Kumai would you say was boosted by Rikudou Chakra?

Because the Obito got rikudou chakra from becoming the juubi jinchuuriki, which further helped Kakashi when he transferred that chakra.

We aren't going to have a discrete version of Obito with no rikudou chakra.

Orange mask Obito a.k.a Tobi claimed that he had the sage's chakra through body implants.

Rinnegan Obito furthered that step by achieving sage chakra in his left eye, while Rikudou Obito completely absorb the rikudou chakra level of the sage's chakra.

Since then I haven't seen the difference in how kamui functions

 

[Gerkak]

I see what you're saying but even if someone were to grant amaterasu and susanoo such enhancements kamui would still be above them. Among the MS techniques, only KA is comparable to KA

 

[KCMNaruto]

Rikudo chakra legendary weapons... -shudders

Imagine all of that power boosted into Amaterasu.

Exactly ;p

Rikudou Kamui should be compared with Rikudou Amaterasu etc.
Kyuubi chakra enhanced Kamui should be compared with Kyuubi chakra enhanced Amaterasu
Pure Kamui should be compared with pure Amaterasu(simple as ms user with not Senjuu DNA)

It is nothing to be impressed that Rikudou Kamui > no powered MS abilties

 

[KCMNaruto]

Well which variant of Kumai would you say was boosted by Rikudou Chakra?

Because the Obito got rikudou chakra from becoming the juubi jinchuuriki, which further helped Kakashi when he transferred that chakra.

We aren't going to have a discrete version of Obito with no rikudou chakra.

Orange mask Obito a.k.a Tobi claimed that he had the sage's chakra through body implants.

Rinnegan Obito furthered that step by achieving sage chakra in his left eye, while Rikudou Obito completely absorb the rikudou chakra level of the sage's chakra.

Since then I haven't seen the difference in how kamui functions

I mean Senjuu boosted Kamui was since Obito has awoken Kamui and it lasted until Obito implated Madara's Rinnegan in his eye, Then we got Rikudou Kamui as Rinnegan is manifestion of Rikudou chakra affecting his eyes.

So no, Obito had Rikudou chakra contained inside Madara's RG since he has enter war as he stated it later were DRG hype came.

Rikudou chakra can be obtained in two ways:

1. mixing Indra and Ashura's chakra
2. becmoning Juubi Jinchurki or absorbing Juubi's powers.

Orange Mask Obito had no Rikudou chakra as he has not Indra's charka even if he has Ashura's chakra until he has implanted Madara's Rinnegan that it.

Showing Kamui being stronger is hard to do. It could be his sucking power was stronger, it worked faster. It could be casted more times then before(aka spammed). He could do new stuff with kamui as throwing Shuriken out of dimenssion at someone. It could be as simple as making intangibility lasting longer. Imo Senjuu DNA boosting KA hints that intangibility of Obito was also boosted. Original it may just last 1 minute the most or even less which would show how Kamui ability was powered/haxed altough it was hax from the begining.

It is manga fact that Kamui was powered, in what way or how we don't know and most likely never find out sadly

I see what you're saying but even if someone were to grant amaterasu and susanoo such enhancements kamui would still be above them. Among the MS techniques, only KA is comparable to KA

Well we can only speculate. Basically PS is ultimate SUssano with enhanced via Rikudou chakra is Sasuke's current PS now compare it to Kamui. Same with Enton or Amaterasu of Current Sasuke, it was able to release Sasuke from Ice dimenssion so it is impressive although used on Kaguya was disapointing but she can absorb it so it was expected to fail.

 

[KisuneUchiha]

Imo I would say pure Kamui is when Kakashi was using it before the war, except maybe double the max amount of shots he could make with it per day

 

[KCMNaruto]

Imo I would say pure Kamui is when Kakashi was using it before the war, except maybe double the max amount of shots he could make with it per day

exactly.

My point isn't to state Kamui sucks. It is just Kamui is too much overrated, but the power of it isn't belong to Kamui itself.

Now if someone say Rikudou Kamui gg, it makes sense as has feats to justify it, that all I think

 

[KidGamer65]

Lets stop.

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-Without any boost.

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-Without any boost.

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-Without any boost.

Kamui is the most hax MS Jutsu, the most hax Space Time Ninjutsu, and one of the most hax jutsu in the NV w/o any kind of boost.

 

[VongolaX]

I mean Senjuu boosted Kamui was since Obito has awoken Kamui and it lasted until Obito implated Madara's Rinnegan in his eye, Then we got Rikudou Kamui as Rinnegan is manifestion of Rikudou chakra affecting his eyes.

So no, Obito had Rikudou chakra contained inside Madara's RG since he has enter war as he stated it later were DRG hype came.

Rikudou chakra can be obtained in two ways:

1. mixing Indra and Ashura's chakra
2. becmoning Juubi Jinchurki or absorbing Juubi's powers.

Orange Mask Obito had no Rikudou chakra as he has not Indra's charka even if he has Ashura's chakra until he has implanted Madara's Rinnegan that it.

Showing Kamui being stronger is hard to do. It could be his sucking power was stronger, it worked faster. It could be casted more times then before(aka spammed). He could do new stuff with kamui as throwing Shuriken out of dimenssion at someone. It could be as simple as making intangibility lasting longer. Imo Senjuu DNA boosting KA hints that intangibility of Obito was also boosted. Original it may just last 1 minute the most or even less which would show how Kamui ability was powered/haxed altough it was hax from the begining.

It is manga fact that Kamui was powered, in what way or how we don't know and most likely never find out sadly



Well we can only speculate. Basically PS is ultimate SUssano with enhanced via Rikudou chakra is Sasuke's current PS now compare it to Kamui. Same with Enton or Amaterasu of Current Sasuke, it was able to release Sasuke from Ice dimenssion so it is impressive although used on Kaguya was disapointing but she can absorb it so it was expected to fail.

So in short senju DNA/Rikudou chakra boosts the effects of a spammable ms only, correct?

Also orange mask Obito does have sage chakra, he told konan he does and he is the second coming of the sage.

The senju cells he has in his body contain Hashirama's chakra or in other words....Ashura's chakra.

The black rods that were imbedded into his body contained Madara's chakra aka Indra.

Anyone with Madara's rinnegan (Nagato and Obito) received sage chakra in their eyes.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Lets stop.

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First picture, Naruto was still alive so Kyuubi chakra boost could work. We saw Kurama's cloak supposed to disappear yet it was revealed they only dimnished to later cover them back after recharging.

Second and Third picture: Kyuubi chakra boosted Kamui

Fourth and Fith picture: Yes it was only Pure Kamui's feat as Naruto was in death & life state so Kurama chakra was not boosting Kamui.

Only two last pictures make your's post right

So in short senju DNA/Rikudou chakra boosts the effects of a spammable ms only, correct?

Also orange mask Obito does have sage chakra, he told konan he does and he is the second coming of the sage.

The senju cells he has in his body contain Hashirama's chakra or in other words....Ashura's chakra.

The black rods that were imbedded into his body contained Madara's chakra aka Indra.

Anyone with Madara's rinnegan (Nagato and Obito) received sage chakra in their eyes.

@ bold part, basically yes, but it would also attacks more potent and having it's traits better working.

Orange mask obito had both Uchiha and Senjuu powers and this was proved..., wasn't it retconned although ?

Imo I forgot black rods having Indra's charka possible..., but was it not Black Zetsu's will as well...

Exactly both Obito and Nagato had Rikudou chakra contained inside of Madara's Rinnegan, they couldn't make use of it besides being used for Rinnegan's attacks exclusive.

I am confused about Orange Mask Obito then...

 

[KidGamer65]

First picture, Naruto was still alive so Kyuubi chakra boost could work. We saw Kurama's cloak supposed to disappear yet it was revealed they only dimnished to later cover them back after recharging.

Wrong. He had used up the chakra he got from Kurama vs. Obito, and the Cloak that he had from Naruto was gone too. That was obviously Kakashi's feat alone.

Second and Third picture: Kyuubi chakra boosted Kamui

Its getting pretty sad. You are either acting oblivious on purpose, or your blind hate for Kamui is causing you to incorrectly read the manga. That was before anyone handed Kakashi any chakra.

All my pictures are correct, Kamui is the most hax MS jutsu. Period.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Wrong. He had used up the chakra he got from Kurama vs. Obito, and the Cloak that he had from Naruto was gone too. That was obviously Kakashi's feat alone.


Its getting pretty sad. You are either acting oblivious on purpose, or your blind hate for Kamui is causing you to incorrectly read the manga. That was before anyone handed Kakashi any chakra.

All my pictures are correct, Kamui is the most hax MS jutsu. Period.

Nope, First case I disagree. Kurama's charka still wasn't gone it was just dimnished and Naruto has never chance to recharge it for Kakashi:

proof:

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and it was after Alliance shinobi lost Kurama's cloak.

About second case, sorry I just checked the manga. You are right.

That means:

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^^ These are correct.

First is still wrong.

I agree with Kamui being hax but let's stop at that and don't overstimate it.

 

[Conspirator.]

Wrong. Kamui is easily the most haxxed MS technique, whether you like it or not.

-Kakashi was able to take off the arm of the gedo mazo, inspite of the fact that Madara used a summoning technique mid warp.
-He warped Naruto's clone.

All these were done without Naruto's chakra.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Wrong. Kamui is easily the most haxxed MS technique, whether you like it or not.

-Kakashi was able to take off the arm of the gedo mazo, inspite of the fact that Madara used a summoning technique mid warp.
-He warped Naruto's clone.

All these were done without Naruto's chakra.

bold part it was Kyuubi chakra enhanced Kamui, read post above
Second point, I agree.

 

[iNotorious]

Kamui is the most hacked MS techniques.

 

[VongolaX]

First picture, Naruto was still alive so Kyuubi chakra boost could work. We saw Kurama's cloak supposed to disappear yet it was revealed they only dimnished to later cover them back after recharging.

Second and Third picture: Kyuubi chakra boosted Kamui

Fourth and Fith picture: Yes it was only Pure Kamui's feat as Naruto was in death & life state so Kurama chakra was not boosting Kamui.

Only two last pictures make your's post right



@ bold part, basically yes, but it would also attacks more potent and having it's traits better working.

Orange mask obito had both Uchiha and Senjuu powers and this was proved..., wasn't it retconned although ?

Imo I forgot black rods having Indra's charka possible..., but was it not Black Zetsu's will as well...

Exactly both Obito and Nagato had Rikudou chakra contained inside of Madara's Rinnegan, they couldn't make use of it besides being used for Rinnegan's attacks exclusive.

I am confused about Orange Mask Obito then...

That's what I'm confused about, like what was being potent?

The orange mask Tobi said that he had the power of both Hashirama and Madara.

Obito recieved a portion of Hashirama's tissue that was synced to Gedo mazou.

The black rod that was used on Obito is Madara's chakra, the one he poured on to white zetsu is Kaguya's will.

Madara was able to manipulate the rods coming out of Obito's dying body
For a while, but not black zetsu.

It would also explain why the kyuubi thought the mask man was Madara 16 years ago.

 

[KidGamer65]

Nope, First case I disagree. Kurama's charka still wasn't gone it was just dimnished and Naruto has never chance to recharge it for Kakashi:

proof:

Spoiler

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and it was after Alliance shinobi lost Kurama's cloak.

Once again you are wrong. Kurama's Chakra diminished to an amount where it didn't power up the Shinobi at all, as seen by their Ninjutsu being exactly the same while fighting after Sasuke arrived, and as seen when Sai was asking Naruto to power the alliance up with his chakra.

So unless you have any kind of evidence, the first was Kakashi's feat as well.

I agree with Kamui being hax but let's stop at that and don't overstimate it.

Everything I stated is true. There is no S/T Jutsu or MS Jutsu as hax as Kamui. Period. I'm waiting for you to tell me which jutsu are more hax than it.

 

[Madara Uzumaki Uchiha]

You can't just compare totally different abilities and say 1 > everything else in all regards.

Kamui is considered by far the best because its the most well rounded ability let's compare:

Kamui

1) perfect defense limited by reaction time & the fact that you can't attack + defend at same time
2) can BFR opponents ( ignores durability)
3) gives the user a private dimension
4) allows for near instantaneous movement across large distances

Thats quite the resume- makes sense that it's a favoured ability.

Amaterasu
1) considered to be strongest katon Justu
2) cannot be extinguished under normal circumstances
3) appears instantly on whatever the user is looking at

Enton manipulation ( sasukes 2nd eye ability )
1) allows manipulation of Amaterasu/ allows user to extinguish Amaterasu
2) manipulate Amaterasu into "sharp" spears/sword
3) can manipulate Amaterasu into a shield

Tsukyomi
1) genjustu that is initiated by eye contact
2) once in genjustu, user controls time and space for 3 days
3) while the victim experiences days of torture, only a moment passes in real time

Kotoamatsukami
1) allows the user to reprogram another individual into doing his/her bidding
2) can only be used once every decade

I am not including susanoo because it isnot a exclusive ability, anyone with two original ms can use it.

-- clearly, Kamui is the best known ms ability.

Rikudo Kamui > Rikudo Amaterasu

- Sasuke has rikido Amaterasu so we have seen what it can do

rikudo Kamui > rikudo susanoo
-
- Sasuke has rikudo susanoo, so we know what it can do

- we have never seen rikudo tsykiomi or kotoamatsukami so we can't compare

If you need to destroy a mountain susanoo is better, if you want to control someone koto is better, if you want to torture someone Tsukyomi is better, if you want to burn something Amaterasu is better.

Point is, each ability has specific uses. However overall, in most situations Kamui is superior- by quite a bit.

 

[KCMNaruto]

You can't just compare totally different abilities and say 1 > everything else in all regards.

Kamui is considered by far the best because its the most well rounded ability let's compare:

Kamui

1) perfect defense limited by reaction time & the fact that you can't attack + defend at same time
2) can BFR opponents ( ignores durability)
3) gives the user a private dimension
4) allows for near instantaneous movement across large distances

Thats quite the resume- makes sense that it's a favoured ability.

Amaterasu
1) considered to be strongest katon Justu
2) cannot be extinguished under normal circumstances
3) appears instantly on whatever the user is looking at

Enton manipulation ( sasukes 2nd eye ability )
1) allows manipulation of Amaterasu/ allows user to extinguish Amaterasu
2) manipulate Amaterasu into "sharp" spears/sword
3) can manipulate Amaterasu into a shield

Tsukyomi
1) genjustu that is initiated by eye contact
2) once in genjustu, user controls time and space for 3 days
3) while the victim experiences days of torture, only a moment passes in real time

Kotoamatsukami
1) allows the user to reprogram another individual into doing his/her bidding
2) can only be used once every decade

I am not including susanoo because it isnot a exclusive ability, anyone with two original ms can use it.

-- clearly, Kamui is the best known ms ability.

Rikudo Kamui > Rikudo Amaterasu

- Sasuke has rikido Amaterasu so we have seen what it can do

rikudo Kamui > rikudo susanoo
-
- Sasuke has rikudo susanoo, so we know what it can do

- we have never seen rikudo tsykiomi or kotoamatsukami so we can't compare

If you need to destroy a mountain susanoo is better, if you want to control someone koto is better, if you want to torture someone Tsukyomi is better, if you want to burn something Amaterasu is better.

Point is, each ability has specific uses. However overall, in most situations Kamui is superior- by quite a bit.

True, But still it is not pure Kamui