Madara's realism vs. Naruto's idealism

[The Sach]

I was thinking about Naruto manga as a whole lately, and something that Tobirama said in latest chapter made me think more in this direction.

You must be registered for see images

Finally, mighty genius Tobirama was even convinced due to Madara's statement, because Madara's thoughts look more realistic rather than some idealistic thought that 'world will come together and we will find answer to the hatred, we will find peace'(the thought which already failed anyway) or something like that.
Madara did have a valid point when he said this,

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

On the other hand, whenever it was asked to Naruto what is his answer to the hatred, he never gave us a feasible solution rather than just said the same stuff again and again. In front of Nagato, where I was expecting him to give us a decent solution, he just picked up Jiraiya's old book, and said 'I will believe on him'.

You must be registered for see links

Now, how is that a feasible solution, from the protagonist of this manga?
Because even if Naruto becomes hokage/SO6P, it isn't going to change the things in the single night.Kishi need to make Naruto come up with a better answer. Otherwise Naruto will end up as a shi*ty protagonist from my point view.
What do you guys think? Do you think that Madara's realism>Naruto's idealism?

 

[xcoyote]

Dude,you expect an answer for something such as world peace from a 16 years old kid.
Heck,Madara who lived 100 years and got resurrected,the best answer he found was to put the whole world in a genjutsu,cant get more retarded than that.

 

[salamander uchiha]

naruto lives in his own bs world. Madara without genjutsu could still make peace with the jyubi under your control and the threat of annihilation if you persist in war then he could potentially unleash it on you.
Even if the shinobi are at peace with each other it will only be because of the Uchiha since the Uchiha forced the world to unite. So by default older son wins and the sage would be wrong.

 

[3MESSIAH]

Define the word realism.

to someone who has an absolute faith in himself and his way of achieving peace as naruto,his way is realistic.

to someone who lost faith in reality and perceives the reality differently like madara,his way is realistic

my point is....what an indivdual mind perceives as realistic,then that is realistic for him.

you cannot simply say sth is/isnt realistic.

everyone has a different perspective and view on reality.what you believe in is true to you and what i believe in is true to me.

there is no absolute truth....there is only what we believe in.and if we believe in it enough then it can come true.

naruto`s way is much much harder...but with enough faith and hard work it can be achieved.

nothing is impossible

 

[Wabbit]

Tobirama said the dream is nt yours to control..
the dream is just an illusion and not a real solution
the answer is in what Jman said
"Even I can tell that hatred is spreading. I wanted to do something about it … but I don't know what … but I believe… that someday the day will come when people truly understand one another!! If I can't find the answer, it will be up to you to do it!!"

 

[Ver55e]

madara's point is a fact but he is not following his way . He wants to be the last victor in this real world before he makes it his fantasy

 

[take it easy]

madaras point not more realistic than naruto in my eyes p.s manga not end yet... naruto has time for answer

 

[The Sach]

Dude,you expect an answer for something such as world peace from a 16 years old kid.
Heck,Madara who lived 100 hundred years and got resurrected,the best answer he found was to put the whole world in a genjutsu,cant get more retarded than that.

because that 16 year old kid is protagonist of Naruto manga,(which is based upon war and hatred) and 'so called' child of prophecy. What's wrong in expecting that?:|

Define the word realism.

to someone who has an absolute faith in himself and his way of achieving peace as naruto,his way is realistic.

to someone who lost faith in reality and perceives the reality differently like madara,his way is realistic

my point is....what an indivdual mind perceives as realistic,then that is realistic for him.

you cannot simply say sth is/isnt realistic.

everyone has a different perspective and view on reality.what you believe in is true to you and what i believe in is true to me.

there is no absolute truth....there is only what we believe in.and if we believe in it enough then it can come true.

naruto`s way is much much harder...but with enough faith and hard work it can be achieved.

nothing is impossible

Even if you have got a point, answer my one question how Naruto is going to realize his thought, tomorrow there will be new Madara, and there will be new war. To hate someone is human nature, and that's why we/NV have term known as god/sannin. If shinobis become god, what is the use of Rikudou sannin, or shinju? And that's why I said Kishi need to give some more thought on realization of true peace rather than just saying Naruto is going to achieve peace.

naruto lives in his own bs world. Madara without genjutsu could still make peace with the jyubi under your control and the threat of annihilation if you persist in war then he could potentially unleash it on you.
Even if the shinobi are at peace with each other it will only be because of the Uchiha since the Uchiha forced the world to unite. So by default older son wins and the sage would be wrong.

But it doesn't change the fact that, many people died in the war or lost their close people, you can term it as 'sacrifices', but it's up to your view.

 

[-Spoiler-]

Dude,you expect an answer for something such as world peace from a 16 years old kid.
Heck,Madara who lived 100 years and got resurrected,the best answer he found was to put the whole world in a genjutsu,cant get more retarded than that.

this right here^

naruto lives in his own bs world. Madara without genjutsu could still make peace with the jyubi under your control and the threat of annihilation if you persist in war then he could potentially unleash it on you.
Even if the shinobi are at peace with each other it will only be because of the Uchiha since the Uchiha forced the world to unite. So by default older son wins and the sage would be wrong.

you most be retarded if you think thats peace. making people live in fear is the same as dictatorship and no better that wants happening in some countries now. sometime i wonder if some of you members are under a genjutsu, its the only explanation for the stupid things you post.

 

[- J AV -]

Well I am pretty much agree with you Nardo needs to find an better answer. Its not going bring peace only by believing in what J man believed...

 

[warlee]

Does what you and i think matters? This manga is named naruto ofcourse he will have his way in the end.

 

[Kishi Uzumaki]

Madara's realism and what he say is true but naruto's idealism to find an better answer
is far better than madara's realism that's what i think man .
maybe it's better naruto and sasuke find an answer together :yeah:
two is better than one when finding a good solution to a existing problem *_*

 

[The Sach]

Tobirama said the dream is nt yours to control..
the dream is just an illusion and not a real solution
the answer is in what Jman said
"Even I can tell that hatred is spreading. I wanted to do something about it … but I don't know what … but I believe… that someday the day will come when people truly understand one another!! If I can't find the answer, it will be up to you to do it!!"

Tobirama said that Madara isn't the one who should control the dream. Dream and reality are terms defined by human beings. On Jman's answer he just passed down his 'will', Naruto is the one who has to find the answer.

madaras point not more realistic than naruto in my eyes p.s manga not end yet... naruto has time for answer

Yes he has, and that's why he has to find some out of the box solution, and must find a way to execute the 'find the peace' plan rather than just saying 'I believe my on my sensei, and hence we will get peace', that isn't what I expect from child of prophecy.

Well I am pretty much agree with you Nardo needs to find an better answer. Its not going bring peace only by believing in what J man believed...

Thanks for agreeing.

Does what you and i think matters? This manga is named naruto ofcourse he will have his way in the end.

Yes what we think does matter, because we review the manga. If this manga which is unique due to it's philosophical nature going to end without Naruto unable to find better answer, then it gives me room to say that Kishi himself failed to develop Naruto as protagonist.

 

[dark legion]

*Madara has the point .. all know That , but He found out that solution, When People fought against each other , for Land, Power, money, etc.. In that case , Madara's Ideal is perfect ....

* BUT In actual NarutoWerse, People are unite , The example "shinobi's Alliance ".. and The reason for it's union isn't about Land, or Power or Money, but For Protection and Peace, ...

I believe Naruto's answer is already shown , ""As long as people are unite , there will be no Wars,""

 

[3MESSIAH]

because that 16 year old kid is protagonist of Naruto manga,(which is based upon war and hatred) and 'so called' child of prophecy. What's wrong in expecting that?:|

Even if you have got a point, answer my one question how Naruto is going to realize his thought, tomorrow there will be new Madara, and there will be new war. To hate someone is human nature, and that's why we/NV have term known as god/sannin. If shinobis become god, what is the use of Rikudou sannin, or shinju? And that's why I said Kishi need to give some more thought on realization of true peace rather than just saying Naruto is going to achieve peace.

But it doesn't change the fact that, many people died in the war or lost their close people, you can term it as 'sacrifices', but it's up to your view.

yes i see your point too.

my answer would be to simply endure and never give up in your way of achieving peace....that way you can pass your ideals to the next generation,next generation of children get raised better through your way of teaching them the best way of achieving true peace through understanding and love and forgiveness...and that way the new generations will continue your path and with each generation the probability of there being a new madara will lessen....the point is to never give up and stick with your path


i believe true peace can be achieved....it`s utopia at best but i still believe it can be done

 

[take it easy]

Yes he has, and that's why he has to find some out of the box solution, and must find a way to execute the 'find the peace' plan rather than just saying 'I believe my on my sensei, and hence we will get peace', that isn't what I expect from child of prophecy.

i think that naruto answer will related to bijuu and daimyo

 

[awesomeseimei]

The most realistic actual solution would be just trying your best (at whatever you like/want the most) in this corrupt, dangerous world while accepting its realities since "true" peace will never happen as long as humans remain humans. But for the sake of interesting story/at least some sort of conflict we must have a protagonist and an antagonist with extreme, radical views on what to do with the world.

 

[Hebi Sasuke]

Both of them are idealist. I mean Madara wants to create a Dreamland,hardly realism don't you think? I like Tobirama's strategy when it comes to ninja world which is kind of combination of Madara's and Hashirama's. I think Sasuke is like that too.

 

[EternalFlame]

I don't support either of them.

Madara essentially wants to take people's free-will away in this "dream world"

Naruto is naive enough to think hatred as a whole can be removed and if he does "remove it" that's also taking free-will away

 

[To Whatever]

I thought Naruto's idealism was to endure hatred and break the cycle of vengence. When Kakashi said he found someone to believe in, Obito asked if such a light existed and how difficult the task would be. Naruto basically affects everyone he enounters, and right now he's had the main stage for a large part of the war.

I think the OP is looking too hard into it. Peace it self is unrealistic but its an ideal to hold on to and something the ninja world lost.