KidGamer65
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Lol, shit...my bad guys. I was in a rush when I made this thread, had to go to work. I'm editing the OP now.
Madara vs. Jiraiya
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Ghost in the Shell
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KidGamer65
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Not trying to single you out or anything but I think this should be addressed.
Jiraiyas stats in the third databook when it came to speed, taijutsu, and physical power were all 4.5
Narutos stats in those same categories were all 3.5
If they both go SM, Jiraiya would still be superior. Some say Jiraiyas SM is imperfect so he should be automatically inferior to SM Naruto but the only thing stated to be imperfect about his mode was him having toad like features. Nothing about his abilities was ever stated to be weaker. Pa stated that your yin, yang, and nature energy must be in
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to use Senjutsu so we know for a fact that since Jiraiya does use Senjutsu techniques, he keeps all 3 perfectly balanced. However, Pa also said that
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nature energy would turn you into a frog. One could conclude that since Jiraiya has little toad like features, he took in too much nature energy but that contradicts Pa's earlier statement he made on that
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because Jiraiya uses senjutsu, (he has all 3 balanced) but how could that be possible if he has toad like features (no balance) on him?The only sensible conclusion I could come to was that Jiriaya has those features because Ma and Pa fused with him using the Amphibian Technique. It was never stated that move gives you toad like features, but like I say sometimes, the manga doesn't hand us everything like babies. We can put two and two together and use common sense to say if you fused with someone you'll probably have some features of whoever you fused with. Like someone mentioned, DB4 supports Jiraiya can use Frog Kumite/Sensing too.
So when people claim Jiraiyas SM is imperfect, I don't think its because its weaker than Narutos or Minatos in the sense that he doesn't gain all the abilities/boosts they get but its imperfect because
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This was one of the things on my list I've wanted to discuss but never got the opportunity to bring it up in a versus thread until you made a comment about it, so thanks for that. =D
As for the fight, I think T-bogard mentioned in Tobirama versus SM Jiraiya thread that Tobirama wins because SM Naruto is better than him at close combat (totally wrong too btw) and if Madara nearly blitzed him, Tobirama will blitz SM Jiraiya since Tobirama was faster than Madara in their lifetime. This is why I linked those DB3 stats in the beginning. Naruto has not improved in base to a point where his speed, power, and taijutsu (all close combat skills) would shoot up to a 4.5 (like base Jiraiyas are) since the pain arc because hes only trained in KCM with Bee since then so SM Jiraiya would still be superior to him so theres no telling if Tobirama or Madara in this case would be able to blitz him not that thats your argument (idk if it is) but just saying.
RustledJimmies
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SM Naruto is better in CQC than SM Jiraya
1- The third databook only goes to the Jiraya-Pain/Itachi-Sasuke arc if i recall. Base Naruto got better taijutsu feats later in the manga. Jiraya had troubles in close combat with Orochimaru(who has a 3.5 in taijutsu or so) when Base Naruto could go tango with Deva Path
2- Jiraya is an imperfect Sage Mode. Although it boost his special characteristics, not to the same extent as it does for a perfect Sage Mode user like Naruto. Kabuto in part1 admitted that close combat wasn't his fort, yet Perfect Sage Mode allowed him to accomplish prowess in the department, to the point of even dodging Susanoo arrows. Naruto on the other side could outrun 3rd Raikage's finger nukinite, both feats above anything SM Jiraya ever showed the capacity to accomplish
3- SM Jiraya was easily blocked by Animal Path when SM Naruto could send Deva Path flying
AlphaMaleLion
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Unorthodox
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I see KidGamer make a thread, and it's this? Lol
Give Madara V3 Susanoo to make this fair. With V4 Madara probably wins. Madara's genjutsu is pretty useless against a SM user with five sources of sensing, not to mention Ma/Pa snap him out the instant he gets caught. Boss toads aren't even needed but Jiraiya can tell them not to look in his eyes or just break his toad out of genjutsu if he stands on top of them. Jiraiya has frog kata + two toad sages as well as a dust cloud to blind sharingan. so no dice on the taijutsu front. Shadow clones? Cool Jiraiya can do those too, and he can make them go two dimensional. Giant katon = countered by equally giant katon fueled by toad oil and fuuton then a Yomi Numa to take out the trash.
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I agree to an extent. Its true Base Naruto did get better in taijutsu but not enough to warrant that his stat would be a 4.5 or more. If we look at people who had 4.5 in taijutsu (Itachi, Kakashi, Neji, Hidan, etc) in that DB time period, all of them would still beat base war arc Naruto in a pure taijutsu fight.
Based on what? Why does Jiraiyas SM not boost his abilities the same way it does to Naruto? Nothing in the manga demonstrates that because Jiraiya can't use it alone its automatically weaker than Narutos.
>Jiraiya sends a path flying with a kick:
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>Naruto sends a path flying with a kick:
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>Jiraiya makes ultra Rasengan:
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>Naruto makes ultra Rasengan:
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Where does Naruto outclass him in either of these panels were they both did the same thing?
Not sure what you meant with the Kabuto point. How does Sasuke shooting long range arrows relate to Kabutos statement about him not being good in close combat?
Naruto dodging Nukite doesn't mean much to my point because Kabutos intent was not to kill him and Jiraiya never faced someone who can move at Sandaimes speed. Jiraiya never needed to react as quickly as Naruto did so you're saying because he never reacted that quickly, he can't react that fast despite him already being a 4.5 (whole tier above Naruto) in speed to begin with and Narutos base speed in war arc is still not that level because hes not faster than people who had 4.5 in speed (Kakashi, Sasuke etc) while in base.
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MasqueradeNX
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beansandcornbread2 destroyed this matchup, I won't be saying anything else on the subject matter
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Brother Numpsay
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Madara gets spanked.
Giant Katon is tanked via Toad mouth trap. Then summonings pound on Madara or Jiraiya murks him in cqc either way suffices.
Giant Katon is tanked via Toad mouth trap. Then summonings pound on Madara or Jiraiya murks him in cqc either way suffices.
Deva charged Naruto in the scenario Bogard was talking about because he reverted back to base and he said "nows my chance". He was not expecting Naruto to suddenly revert back to SM (from his backup clones) and attack him at that speed. He had his eyes on Jiraiya and was prepared to react to him.