Madara & Rikudo Sennin vs Sasuke, Naruto and Kaguya

[Nattana]

Naruto would get caught in it.

Both Madara and Hagaromo have Rinnegan, damn your post was awful.

Lol? Firstly, I'm not taking about moon-powered, global IT. And secondly, why would Kaguya catch her own teammate in her Genjutsu?

 

[KidGamer65]

Hagaromo-powered Sharinnegan Susanoo managed to block IT-powered moonlight. Rnnegan alone doesn't give you immunity. If she hits them with IT (which with Byakugan is like 100% success rate) - they're done for.

Nope.

-Rinnegan repels the jutsu as stated by Black Zetsu

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Susanoo was created with the Rinnegan, so it gets the ability to repel the Genjutsu as well. Susanoo was only used to save Kakashi, Naruto and Sakura since they don't have the Rinnegan, thus have no immunity to the jutsu.

Not to mention JJ Madara has Susanoo, and its powered by Hagoromo's chakra since Madara obtained that chakra when he got the Rinnegan, and he got more of it when he got the Juubi, and he has the Rinnegan. Either way you slice it, IT is a non factor. In fact, the only one here who is vulnerable is Naruto..Lol So It is useless here.

And if dimension-shifting comes into play - Kaguya rotflstomps Madara. They can got for a shift-fight and Kaguya comes victorious since she has tons of times more chakra.

Except its not Kaguya vs Madara, its Kaguya vs Hagoromo here, and she won't be roflstomping anyone here when Naruto was able to stand against her for a while, on his own. Madara takes out Naruto and Sasuke and Hagoromo holds off Kaguya.

 

[HiddenSound]

If Madara gets Kaguya's Jutsu I think it's only fair Kaguya gets one of Madara's lel

 

[MadaraReturns]

Lol? Firstly, I'm not taking about moon-powered, global IT. And secondly, why would Kaguya catch her own teammate in her Genjutsu?

you have a point here, but she probably wouldn't use IT first, madara and hagoromo are much smarter, i can see madara playing the first 5 minutes but hagoromo would talk sense into him and make him use IT, you see byakugan was used for long range, but that doesn't mean you can't IT without byakugan/ the moon, but maybe IT wouldn't even work because of kaguya and sasuke's eyes

 

[MadaraReturns]

here you have it IT probably doesnt work on the same eyes^

 

[Conspirator.]

IT isn't doing shit here since the Rinnegan can canonically block it out. Madara and Hagoromo both have the Rinnegan, and team 1 wins because Madara w/ Kaguya's dimensional shifting abilities beats Naruto and Sasuke while Hagoromo holds off Kaguya long enough for Madara to come and help him beat her.

Yeah. On top of that, Madara himself was not affected by IT in canon. I know he was the caster, but IT seems different to an ordinary genjutsu. This proves that the Rinnegan alone makes you immune to IT.(you don't need to use Susanoo to protect yourself)

OT: YOu gave Madara Kaguya's jutsu, so team 1 wins. Madara can beat Naruto/Sasuke, Hagaromo can hold off Kaguya for a while before the 2 of them gang rape Kaguya. Without Kaguya's jutsu, I think team 2 wins.

 

[Nattana]

Nope.

-Rinnegan repels the jutsu as stated by Black Zetsu

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Susanoo was created with the Rinnegan, so it gets the ability to repel the Genjutsu as well. Susanoo was only used to save Kakashi, Naruto and Sakura since they don't have the Rinnegan, thus have no immunity to the jutsu.

Not to mention JJ Madara has Susanoo, and its powered by Hagoromo's chakra since Madara obtained that chakra when he got the Rinnegan, and he got more of it when he got the Juubi, and he has the Rinnegan. Either way you slice it, IT is a non factor. In fact, the only one here who is vulnerable is Naruto..Lol So It is useless here.

Lol, u got really low. BZ didn't even know what was going on so he made an assumption about Rinnegan blocking IT. Susanoo wasn't created with Rinnegan because it's a Sharingan jutsu. Also, it doesn't even matter if JJ Madara has Susanoo or not - Kaguya can cast IT without aid from some moonlight. She doesn't need to cover global area - Byakugan-aided IT is enough and it's even better, since it doesn't requre any sort of medium to get to the target.

Also, lel at Naruto getting caught. It's ridiculous that you all think that she HAS to catch him too if she uses IT. I guess also got caught in Kurenais Genjutsu when she used it on Kisame and Itachi. Jiraya got caught in Frog Song as well, right?

Except its not Kaguya vs Madara, its Kaguya vs Hagoromo here, and she won't be roflstomping anyone here when Naruto was able to stand against her for a while, on his own. Madara takes out Naruto and Sasuke and Hagoromo holds off Kaguya.

Naruto was able to stand against her because she was heavily restricted. She could've simply IT him when she constricted him but she didn't. Also, this is not Kaguya vs Hagoromo and Madara vs N+S.

 

[Nattana]

Yeah. On top of that, Madara himself was not affected by IT in canon. I know he was the caster, but IT seems different to an ordinary genjutsu. This proves that the Rinnegan alone makes you immune to IT.(you don't need to use Susanoo to protect yourself)

OT: YOu gave Madara Kaguya's jutsu, so team 1 wins. Madara can beat Naruto/Sasuke, Hagaromo can hold off Kaguya for a while before the 2 of them gang rape Kaguya. Without Kaguya's jutsu, I think team 2 wins.

Wow - Madara wasn't affected by his own Genjutsu and that's why you come to conclusion that Rinnegan itself protects from IT? Show me any Genjutsu users in the whole manga who caught themselves in their own Genjutsu while casting it.

 

[KidGamer65]

Lol, u got really low. BZ didn't even know what was going on so he made an assumption about Rinnegan blocking IT.

He knew exactly what was going on, lets not try and play dumb here. Susanoo was blocking out the light, he knew that Sasuke obtained the Rinnegan, and stated that Rinnegan is what blocked out the Genjutsu. I'll take BZ's words over yours any day of the week, so unless you have evidence that Rinnegan doesn't repel IT, I suggest you stop arguing this point.

Susanoo wasn't created with Rinnegan because it's a Sharingan jutsu.

Irrelevant as Sasuke's Rinnegan uses Sharingan powers as well.

"Susanoo created by my eyes"

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Sasuke's left eye=Rinnegan. Rinnegan repels the jutsu, as stated by BZ so the Susanoo he created lets him repel the jutsu as well.

Also, it doesn't even matter if JJ Madara has Susanoo or not - Kaguya can cast IT without aid from some moonlight. She doesn't need to cover global area - Byakugan-aided IT is enough and it's even better, since it doesn't requre any sort of medium to get to the target.

Then she'd have to make eye contact, and that isn't happening when Madara has knowledge, and the highest form of sensing. Byakugan doesn't help anything here so I have no idea why you keep saying "Byakugan aided IT" Lol.

Not to mention Rinnegan repels the jutsu, so it doesn't matter either way.

Also, lel at Naruto getting caught. It's ridiculous that you all think that she HAS to catch him too if she uses IT. I guess also got caught in Kurenais Genjutsu when she used it on Kisame and Itachi. Jiraya got caught in Frog Song as well, right?

Never said that he'd get caught. Read before replying.

Naruto was able to stand against her because she was heavily restricted. She could've simply IT him when she constricted him but she didn't. Also, this is not Kaguya vs Hagoromo and Madara vs N+S.

Lol, she didn't because she couldn't. Its as simple as that.

@bold: It will because that is exactly how Hagoromo and Madara will make it play out.

 

[V h o]

If Madara gets Kaguya's Jutsu I think it's only fair Kaguya gets one of Madara's lel

I say Limbo.

 

[Conspirator.]

Wow - Madara wasn't affected by his own Genjutsu and that's why you come to conclusion that Rinnegan itself protects from IT? Show me any Genjutsu users in the whole manga who caught themselves in their own Genjutsu while casting it.

I already said that IT was not an ordinary genjutsu. Besides that is not my main point-BZ himself said that Sasuke's rinnegan was countering the jutsu, and sasuke himself said that he created the susanoo with his eyes-obviously referring to the Rinnegan. Madara being unaffected is just further evidence that Rinnegan users are immune to IT. The only reason Sasuke used susanoo was to protect the other members of team 7(since the Susanoo was created by the Rinnegan, it obains sasuke's immunity to it) since they had no Rinnegan.

 

[Nattana]

He knew exactly what was going on, lets not try and play dumb here. Susanoo was blocking out the light, he knew that Sasuke obtained the Rinnegan, and stated that Rinnegan is what blocked out the Genjutsu. I'll take BZ's words over yours any day of the week, so unless you have evidence that Rinnegan doesn't repel IT, I suggest you stop arguing this point.

He didn't know shit. He asked himself if Sasuke's Rinnegan could repel IT as well. We didn't get the answer. It's like saying that a Suiton user is immune to straight-to-the-face Katon just because he can counter Katon with Suiton.

Irrelevant as Sasuke's Rinnegan uses Sharingan powers as well.

"Susanoo created by my eyes"

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Sasuke's left eye=Rinnegan. Rinnegan repels the jutsu, as stated by BZ so the Susanoo he created lets him repel the jutsu as well.

Rinnegan-boosted Susanoo repeled IT-moonlight that acted as some sort of conductor. Rinnegan itself can't counter IT. At least not until we are shown it can.

Then she'd have to make eye contact, and that isn't happening when Madara has knowledge, and the highest form of sensing. Byakugan doesn't help anything here so I have no idea why you keep saying "Byakugan aided IT" Lol.

She doesn't need eye contact lol. IT doesn't require eye contact, because it caught people in building and ppl wearing glasses and stuff. Moon was there only to make it global. Byakugan can be used in the same way it was used by Ino+Hinata.

Not to mention Rinnegan repels the jutsu, so it doesn't matter either way.

It doesn't.

Never said that he'd get caught. Read before replying.

Yeah, sry.

Lol, she didn't because she couldn't. Its as simple as that.

@bold: It will because that is exactly how Hagoromo and Madara will make it play out.

Of course she could catch him. Naruto couldn't have acted more stupid back then. He let himself get caught by her pretending he couldn't move. He didn't know shit about her abilities and simple IT would've rotflstomped his ass. Kishi simply didn't let her use that. Kaguya was restricted as hell during her fight with S+N and don't even try to deny that.

 

[MadaraReturns]

He didn't know shit. He asked himself if Sasuke's Rinnegan could repel IT as well. We didn't get the answer. It's like saying that a Suiton user is immune to straight-to-the-face Katon just because he can counter Katon with Suiton.



Rinnegan-boosted Susanoo repeled IT-moonlight that acted as some sort of conductor. Rinnegan itself can't counter IT. At least not until we are shown it can.



She doesn't need eye contact lol. IT doesn't require eye contact, because it caught people in building and ppl wearing glasses and stuff. Moon was there only to make it global. Byakugan can be used in the same way it was used by Ino+Hinata.



It doesn't.



Yeah, sry.



Of course she could catch him. Naruto couldn't have acted more stupid back then. He let himself get caught by her pretending he couldn't move. He didn't know shit about her abilities and simple IT would've rotflstomped his ass. Kishi simply didn't let her use that. Kaguya was restricted as hell during her fight with S+N and don't even try to deny that.

so, rinnegan boosted susanoo can block IT but rinnegan itself with all rinnegan's boosts/powers can't?

 

[KidGamer65]

He didn't know shit. He asked himself if Sasuke's Rinnegan could repel IT as well. We didn't get the answer. It's like saying that a Suiton user is immune to straight-to-the-face Katon just because he can counter Katon with Suiton.

Its his hypothesis based on what just occurred and what he knew. Its not a baseless assumption, and its better than anything you are posting.

Bold makes no sense, because it was stated that the Rinnegan repels the jutsu, so as long as you have that eye, you aren't affected. Your analogy doesn't even apply to this situation as its not the same thing.

Rinnegan-boosted Susanoo repeled IT-moonlight that acted as some sort of conductor. Rinnegan itself can't counter IT. At least not until we are shown it can.

Black Zetsu stated that it can, so it can. Sasuke stated that Rinnegan is the main reason Susanoo blocked out IT "Susanoo created with my eyes"

She doesn't need eye contact lol. IT doesn't require eye contact, because it caught people in building and ppl wearing glasses and stuff. Moon was there only to make it global. Byakugan can be used in the same way it was used by Ino+Hinata.

Because of the light, if you are saying that she can project the light from her eye, then it doesn't matter anyway as Rinnegan repels the jutsu. The Moon is what adds that light effect and that is what makes it global.

@bold: Explain how that'd help.

Of course she could catch him. Naruto couldn't have acted more stupid back then. He let himself get caught by her pretending he couldn't move. He didn't know shit about her abilities and simple IT would've rotflstomped his ass. Kishi simply didn't let her use that. Kaguya was restricted as hell during her fight with S+N and don't even try to deny that.

Except you are going to have to prove that she can use IT w/o eye contact, and without any kind of medium like the moon. Don't say that's how she did it back then, because she clearly caught the world in Infinite Tsukuyomi somehow, meaning she had some kind of medium.

The only thing you can come up with is IT, something you don't know is possible without a medium (without eye contact of course) so how was she "restricted as hell"? Lol. Naruto was simply able to hold her back. She wasn't restricted by plot, they were simply strong enough to survive.

 

[Nattana]

Its his hypothesis based on what just occurred and what he knew. Its not a baseless assumption, and its better than anything you are posting.

It is a hypothesis and nothing more. Show me any proof of Rinnegan user being immune to IT. Oh, there's none.

Bold makes no sense, because it was stated that the Rinnegan repels the jutsu, so as long as you have that eye, you aren't affected. Your analogy doesn't even apply to this situation as its not the same thing.

It wasn't stated that Rinnegan repels the jutsu. BZ asked himself if it could do that. There was no answer to that question with neither words nor feats. My analogy is actually very accurate. Sharingan is KKG just like Rinnegan. Just because a jutsu used by Sharingan user blocked something doesn't mean that the same user is immune to direct hit from that jutsu. It's like saying that because Susanoo can protect Sasuke from Youton, Sauske is immune to Youton himself.

Black Zetsu stated that it can, so it can. Sasuke stated that Rinnegan is the main reason Susanoo blocked out IT "Susanoo created with my eyes"

And? He used his eyes to create Susanoo which blocked IT. He also used his eyes to create Susanoo that protected him from Ay's attacks, from Danzo and many other characters. Irrelevant argument.

Because of the light, if you are saying that she can project the light from her eye, then it doesn't matter anyway as Rinnegan repels the jutsu. The Moon is what adds that light effect and that is what makes it global.

Rinnegan doesn't repel anything. Kaguya doesn't need light to cast wide-area IT. It's been stated that she used combination of Byakugan and Sharinnegan to catch people in IT. If she used the moon to do it - Byakugan + Sharinnegan combo wouldnt've been mentioned.

@bold: Explain how that'd help.

Hmm, let me think. 10km+ radius of 360 degrees, unrestricted vision that won't let you hide and run from her sight?

Except you are going to have to prove that she can use IT w/o eye contact, and without any kind of medium like the moon. Don't say that's how she did it back then, because she clearly caught the world in Infinite Tsukuyomi somehow, meaning she had some kind of medium.

She did that to people back in her days. It's been stated she used Byakugan and Sharinnegan combo.

The only thing you can come up with is IT, something you don't know is possible without a medium (without eye contact of course) so how was she "restricted as hell"? Lol. Naruto was simply able to hold her back. She wasn't restricted by plot, they were simply strong enough to survive.

It's not the only thing I can think of. It's that they all have pretty much similar abilities. The only difference is that Kaguya is way superior to all of them.

 

[KidGamer65]

It is a hypothesis and nothing more. Show me any proof of Rinnegan user being immune to IT. Oh, there's none.

Unless you have some evidence as to why his hypothesis would be incorrect, or untrustworthy, then I'll believe it over you. It being in question form doesn't change its validity. Madara asked himself if Gai is kicking up the air to fly, does that mean that Gai wasn't kicking up the air? Oh wait, no, it doesn't.

It wasn't stated that Rinnegan repels the jutsu. BZ asked himself if it could do that. There was no answer to that question with neither words nor feats. My analogy is actually very accurate. Sharingan is KKG just like Rinnegan. Just because a jutsu used by Sharingan user blocked something doesn't mean that the same user is immune to direct hit from that jutsu. It's like saying that because Susanoo can protect Sasuke from Youton, Sauske is immune to Youton himself.

Susanoo has to be active. Rinnegan is active, so it repels the jutsu. Its really that simple. No one ever said that a jutsu used with the Rinnegan blocks out IT, it was said that a Rinnegan can repel the jutsu.

And? He used his eyes to create Susanoo which blocked IT. He also used his eyes to create Susanoo that protected him from Ay's attacks, from Danzo and many other characters. Irrelevant argument.

There was no need to mention his eyes, if his eyes didn't play an important part in why Susanoo is protecting them.

Rinnegan doesn't repel anything. Kaguya doesn't need light to cast wide-area IT. It's been stated that she used combination of Byakugan and Sharinnegan to catch people in IT. If she used the moon to do it - Byakugan + Sharinnegan combo wouldnt've been mentioned.

BZ disagrees, the bold is false as well. Hagoromo only said that she had the Sharingan's power, and that she used it on people. He never said that she used the Rinnegan and the Byakugan to cast IT.

Hmm, let me think. 10km+ radius of 360 degrees, unrestricted vision that won't let you hide and run from her sight?

Except being able to see doesn't let her cast IT. She either needs light or eye contact. If she can't see them with her Rinnegan eye, then casting them in IT is impossible.

She did that to people back in her days. It's been stated she used Byakugan and Sharinnegan combo.

Nope, it hasn't.

It's not the only thing I can think of. It's that they all have pretty much similar abilities. The only difference is that Kaguya is way superior to all of them.

Then tell me more about how Kaguya was restricted by plot.

 

[Xlad]

Team 1 wins. Madara would just shift dimensions right away.

 

[Nattana]

Unless you have some evidence as to why his hypothesis would be incorrect, or untrustworthy, then I'll believe it over you. It being in question form doesn't change its validity. Madara asked himself if Gai is kicking up the air to fly, does that mean that Gai wasn't kicking up the air? Oh wait, no, it doesn't.

Lel seriously? Gai was kicking up the air so suprised Madara asked himself if he was really doing that. If Madara asked himself if Gai could've in addition to kicking up the air sang opera simultaneously - it would be the exact replica of the BZ/Madara/Sasuke situation.

Sasuke blocked IT with Susanoo - BZ knows that. Whether Sasuke could block it with Rinnegan alone - it's just a speculation.
Gai can kick up the air - Madara knows that. Whether he can sing opera at the same time - no one knows.

Susanoo has to be active. Rinnegan is active, so it repels the jutsu. Its really that simple. No one ever said that a jutsu used with the Rinnegan blocks out IT, it was said that a Rinnegan can repel the jutsu.

Nothing was ever stated. Susanoo simply repeled moonlight. With no Susanoo active there's no blocking IT, since Genjutsu affect brains - not eyes. No one is immune to Genjutsu, and IT was shown to be something one cannot break out of after getting caught.

There was no need to mention his eyes, if his eyes didn't play an important part in why Susanoo is protecting them.

Sasuke used his eyes to create Susanoo. Susanoo blocked the moonlight with IT.

BZ disagrees, the bold is false as well. Hagoromo only said that she had the Sharingan's power, and that she used it on people. He never said that she used the Rinnegan and the Byakugan to cast IT.

BZ is the least reliable source of information, since he didn't know shit himself. Hagoromo said that in ADDITION to Byakugan she had Sharingan. And then he says she used that guresome eye power to cast IT on people. 2-day-old fetus could figure out that in between the lines Byakugan || Sharingan combo was used.

Except being able to see doesn't let her cast IT. She either needs light or eye contact. If she can't see them with her Rinnegan eye, then casting them in IT is impossible.

Kaguya was never shown casting IT on-panel, but since it was stated she used IT on masses with Byakugan || Sharingan proves she doesn't need eye contact or any conductor.

Then tell me more about how Kaguya was restricted by plot.

Of course she was. If you don't see that - you are either blind or overshadowed by some fanboyism.

 

[KidGamer65]

Lel seriously? Gai was kicking up the air so suprised Madara asked himself if he was really doing that. If Madara asked himself if Gai could've in addition to kicking up the air sang opera simultaneously - it would be the exact replica of the BZ/Madara/Sasuke situation.

Not really. Cause Gai didn't do anything that would lead him to ask or believe that Gai can sing opera. Once again you are making faulty analogies to get your faulty point across. Black Zetsu knows that Sasuke has the Rinnegan. He knows how IT works, he knows that Susanoo was blocking out the light, and he came the conclusion that Susanoo blocked out the light because of Sasuke's Rinnegan. This isn't hard to understand. It being in question form doesn't make it invalid.

Sasuke blocked IT with Susanoo - BZ knows that. Whether Sasuke could block it with Rinnegan alone - it's just a speculation.

Not really, because the reason his Susanoo blocked it was because of the Rinnegan.

Nothing was ever stated. Susanoo simply repeled moonlight. With no Susanoo active there's no blocking IT, since Genjutsu affect brains - not eyes. No one is immune to Genjutsu, and IT was shown to be something one cannot break out of after getting caught.

Black Zetsu completely disagrees with you. Rinnegan repels the jutsu.

Sasuke used his eyes to create Susanoo. Susanoo blocked the moonlight with IT.

And his eyes are the reason that Susanoo was able to block the light out.

BZ is the least reliable source of information, since he didn't know shit himself.

Lol what the hell manga have you been reading? BZ knows everything about this plan and the Infinite Tsukuyomi. Nothing implies otherwise.

Hagoromo said that in ADDITION to Byakugan she had Sharingan. And then he says she used that guresome eye power to cast IT on people. 2-day-old fetus could figure out that in between the lines Byakugan || Sharingan combo was used.

Once again, read before you reply. This time you should be reading the manga correctly instead of twisting it to fit your ridiculous argument.

Kaguya was never shown casting IT on-panel, but since it was stated she used IT on masses with Byakugan || Sharingan proves she doesn't need eye contact or any conductor.

"Besides the Byakugan, she had the Sharingan's power" "It was a gruesome eye power, and she also used it on people"

Now, lets break this down so that you actually read it correctly instead of spouting BS.

-That second part of his quote refers to THE SHARINGAN. Hence the singular usage of "eye power" and not "eye powers" and the singular usage of "it" and not "them"

Now, aside from your own fanfiction, where did Kaguya use Byakugan and Sharingan to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi on the people.

Of course she was. If you don't see that - you are either blind or overshadowed by some fanboyism.

-Says I'm overshadowed by fanboyism.

-Can't provide one example as to how Kaguya was nerfed.

Lol, if you can't provide an example as to how she was nerfed, I suggest we stop posting. Period.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Pretty much all of Kaguya's dimensions are useless, if she warps, Madara can warp them all back, so all she can do is leave while Naruto and Sasuke get slaughtered.

Hagoromo is an unknown factor, so i am pretending he is a monkey in a silly hat (Seriously, don't put featless characters in vs threads. They either get completely ignored to wanked to death.)

I'd probably go with Madz and Hagoromo, just because Kaguya is pretty much useless in these circumstances and Madz was beating up Naruto & Sasuke pretty easily.