Madara>Hashirama

[Son Ryuto Uzumaki]

Madara was always stronger than Hashirama. He was only pretending to be weaker.

Now this is the new species of troll and bandwagon I call it a Trollwagerer

 

[Hipster Madara]

I agree somewhat.

Yes madara placed the rods in hashirama's back, but the fact that he didn't control hashirama proved that He couldn't. Madara knew that obito was defeated and if he waited any longer, he could of lost his chance at escaping the torri seal.

What im saying is that because madara didn't control hashirama, I beliieve that it's because he couldn't. Reason why was because he knew he was getting backed into a corner and if he waited any longer, he would of lost.

-Obito was defeated
-alliance was going to focus on him mainly
-add the edo hokage's and hashirama as well
-naruto, sasuke and kakashi

Madara knew he had to act fast, Saying he was going easy is purely speculation.

I doubt we will ever get an explanation as to why he didn't use the rod to control Hashirama. Nothing indicates that he could not use it, Nagato was able to use it from a distance and Madara has been shown to be more skilled than he so it is likely just plot. From what I can formulate, it is implied that he didn't want to use it from his dialogue, as I said. But I don't know. Nor am I interesting in knowing because controlling Hashirama is kinda of a cop out of a real battle which will not occur between the two.


Edit:
I do acknowledge that he was immobilized but we don't know how so I can't say anything about that and neither can you, to do so would be speculation.

 

[Troyg39]

I agree somewhat.

Yes madara placed the rods in hashirama's back, but the fact that he didn't control hashirama proved that He couldn't. Madara knew that obito was defeated and if he waited any longer, he could of lost his chance at escaping the torri seal.

What im saying is that because madara didn't control hashirama, I beliieve that it's because he couldn't. Reason why was because he knew he was getting backed into a corner and if he waited any longer, he would of lost.

-Obito was defeated
-alliance was going to focus on him mainly
-add the edo hokage's and hashirama as well
-naruto, sasuke and kakashi

Madara knew he had to act fast, Saying he was going easy is purely speculation.

1st bold: Now this where I can hit you with your own thing and say "speculation". You are now doing the same thing you accused Hipster Madara of doing. As we just established, the reasoning behind Madara not controlling Hashirama right away is unknown. It's not "proven". The fact that he didn't control Hashirama right away doesn't "prove" he couldn't. It merely suggests so if that's the way you wish to interpret it. Personally, I feel as if he didn't do so because he couldn't at that time as well. But it's not proven, only my opinion

2nd bold: Now see this is more like it. You believe it is because he couldn't. Not that it was proven

3rd bold: I totally agree with you. I don't like the excuse of "Madara was going easy" thing either, because I clearly remember an overly eager Madara just dying to fight Hashirama and even a point of impatience where he eventually made Hashirama fight him. I doubt he would just decide to go easy on someone he was so desperate to mix it up with. But at the same time, I can't prove he was fighting with full effort either. But like I said before, it doesn't really matter because Hashirama wasn't fighting at full strength, and Madara apparently didn't have all his powers as an Edo. So don't let this Madara stuff get to you dude

 

[Trollasaur]

The uchiha wank is real o.0

On topic: Naruto plot armor -> All madara stolen powers

#MangaPhux!

Who cares if it's stolen?

 

[Son Ryuto Uzumaki]

Hashirama pawned UMadara in his prime and beyond it, living and edo and plus every fight between UMadara needed a power up and still lost. Lord God King Hashirama doesn't need a power up just bring him back from the dead with no restrictions like UMadara now an its over for him

 

[Flawž]

1st bold: Now this where I can hit you with your own thing and say "speculation". You are now doing the same thing you accused Hipster Madara of doing. As we just established, the reasoning behind Madara not controlling Hashirama right away is unknown. It's not "proven". The fact that he didn't control Hashirama right away doesn't "prove" he couldn't. It merely suggests so if that's the way you wish to interpret it. Personally, I feel as if he didn't do so because he couldn't at that time as well. But it's not proven, only my opinion

2nd bold: Now see this is more like it. You believe it is because he couldn't. Not that it was proven

3rd bold: I totally agree with you. I don't like the excuse of "Madara was going easy" thing either, because I clearly remember an overly eager Madara just dying to fight Hashirama and even a point of impatience where he eventually made Hashirama fight him. I doubt he would just decide to go easy on someone he was so desperate to mix it up with. But at the same time, I can't prove he was fighting with full effort either. But like I said before, it doesn't really matter because Hashirama wasn't fighting at full strength, and Madara apparently didn't have all his powers as an Edo. So don't let this Madara stuff get to you dude

I doubt we will ever get an explanation as to why he didn't use the rod to control Hashirama. Nothing indicates that he could not use it, Nagato was able to use it from a distance and Madara has been shown to be more skilled than he so it is likely just plot. From what I can formulate, it is implied that he didn't want to use it from his dialogue, as I said. But I don't know. Nor am I interesting in knowing because controlling Hashirama is kinda of a cop out of a real battle which will not occur between the two.


Edit:
I do acknowledge that he was immobilized but we don't know how so I can't say anything about that and neither can you, to do so would be speculation.

your speculating more.

You have no idea why madara didn't control hashirama.

you have no idea how he manged to place the rods on hashirama's back

you have no idea about the particular situation so anything said about it is pure speculation as we have no idea. I repeat no idea.

In my case, i have 2 scans showing that he was getting his chakra drained by the wood dragon making him immobilized.

From what we saw, without speculation, Hashirama bounded madara twice without getting controlled. To me thats a win for hashirama.

i said all i could. Any more denying manga facts can be done without my presence.

Good debate HM

 

[Champ]

Yeah, Madara owned him with no eyes

 

[KingHashirama]

@People saying he didn't try to control Hashirama, when the whole purpose of him going through the process was to control Hashirama. :leaf:

To control someone with the rods following are needed:

- Need to be stronger than the person you are controlling

- If not that then the person who you want to control needs to be weakened (just like current Hashirama).

This is shown when Nagato tried to control Naruto with the black rod but failed due to the 9-tails chakra which was stronger than a weakened Nagato's chakra.

When Hashirama restrained Madara he wasn't that weakened, in fact he was fighting and putting down Madara, so there is NO WAY for Madara to control Hashirama with the rods, because its useless. However, with Madara being revived he gets all the power back while Hashirama becomes weaker (for some reason).. enabling Madara to restrain Hashirama now.

Madara fans saying he didn't try against Hashirama.. because Hashirama got him into a state where he couldn't try anything against Hashirama, is kind of going against Madara's personality and his character.

 

[Hipster Madara]

1st bold: Now this where I can hit you with your own thing and say "speculation". You are now doing the same thing you accused Hipster Madara of doing. As we just established, the reasoning behind Madara not controlling Hashirama right away is unknown. It's not "proven". The fact that he didn't control Hashirama right away doesn't "prove" he couldn't. It merely suggests so if that's the way you wish to interpret it. Personally, I feel as if he didn't do so because he couldn't at that time as well. But it's not proven, only my opinion

2nd bold: Now see this is more like it. You believe it is because he couldn't. Not that it was proven

3rd bold: I totally agree with you. I don't like the excuse of "Madara was going easy" thing either, because I clearly remember an overly eager Madara just dying to fight Hashirama and even a point of impatience where he eventually made Hashirama fight him. I doubt he would just decide to go easy on someone he was so desperate to mix it up with. But at the same time, I can't prove he was fighting with full effort either. But like I said before, it doesn't really matter because Hashirama wasn't fighting at full strength, and Madara apparently didn't have all his powers as an Edo. So don't let this Madara stuff get to you dude

I think the main problem is the inconsistent way Kishimoto writes about Madara.

 

[Trollasaur]

I doubt he has Hashirama's full powered Sage Mode, since he obtained it from a weakened out Hashirama. Not only that he himself said the sage mode isn't that powerful. While we know Hashirama's Sage Mode is freaking powerful.

Hashirama immobilized an Edo Madara with Rinnegan/Mokuton/EMS.. I doubt the current one is even on that level. People who are making the excuses for Madara with the whole "he wasn't trying" uh no.

Fact: God tree went after the people with huge amounts of chakra.
Fact: Hashirama has huge amounts of chakra (on par or higher than Naruto's).. So he had already gotten his chakra taken away, while fighting Madara. Though can't say the same for Madara.


In the end as I said , the only way Living Madara would be a good attempt is to make Hashirama useless somehow.. and that is what happened. However, if you guys believe that Hashirama being useless = him being inferior to Madara.. then you seriously misguided.. because Hashirama pulls out a move that will finish of Madara with the last of Hashirama's power, will you guys then say current weakened Hashirama > Full powered Madara?? no.

In the end Madara hasn't beaten Hashirama in a fight period.. Hence Hashirama still stays the stronger one.

No matter what Madara does Hashirama will be a step ahead. Hell he already knew who Madara was going to go after.



PS: Not bashing Madara here, because now its clearly shown that Sasuke and Naruto still have a whole lot to do before they can catch up to Madara and Hashirama. He still the strongest after Hashirama. Plus, dude is a freaking genius for having Zetsu stay with Obito the entire time. He used Zetsu with the perfect timing.


If he didn't want to try, there was no need for PS. If he didn't want to try there was no need to go chase Hashirama to stab with black rods. The fact is he was trying. However him losing and being immobilized was meaningless because he already had black zetsu to bail him out with Obito..

To control someone with the rods, you have to be in a more powerful state than the person you are trying to control. Madara wanted to control Hashirama, so the speculation of "He didn't try" is already nulified when he now with all his chakra back and at full power restrained a weakened Hashirama.

Before he couldn't restrain him because he wasn't stronger than Hashirama. Just like Nagato couldn't do anything to Naruto with the rods when the kyuubi's chakra came into play.

lol too much fanboying

 

[KingHashirama]

lol too much fanboying

This is the moment you realize that you do not know how to use the word "fanboying".

Not my fault that you guys picked a villain to be your fav character.

 

[Hipster Madara]

lol too much fanboying

And so it begins...

 

[RikudouMadara]

Hmm....nao I try to stay out of things like this, but I'll entertain this a bit. Nao...some are saying Hashirama defeated Madara during their fight. The Viz translation says that Madara wasn't trying because he didn't have a beating heart, raging blood. Well actually he says it is not a real fight without these things which is why he nao finally wants to fight for real..

He says nao I can fight for real only because of these things that make it a real fight to him. He didn't say I can fight for real because I'm stronger, weaker, faster. He says only because of a beating heart and raging blood. Which means it wasn't a real fight because he deemed it not to be exciting until he could feel those things specifically. Nothing else....meaning as far as his strength nothing changed.

Nao...this is strengthened when you look at Madaras expressions. In him not fighting for real before as he said he wasn't because of no heart and blood. He clearly gives the expressions of apathetic, indifference, not caring at all about Hashirama and Narutos attack. So....Madara was not trying.....

I'm not saying either is stronger, but during their previous scuffle Madara wasn't fighting for real by Viz translation. This is no disrespect to anyone, but this has to be the case. If his words are not taken out of context. As far as Madara nao....would he defeat a fully healthy alive Hashirama probably not as even though they both have SM being without sight is a severe handicap. Although.....with Madaras immense knowledge idk.....

 

[Trollasaur]

This is the moment you realize that you do not know how to use the word "fanboying".

Not my fault that you guys picked a villain to be your fav character.

Madara aint even my fav, Obito is.

And you don't see me crying in a corner cause he's a vegtable.

 

[Troyg39]

@People saying he didn't try to control Hashirama, when the whole purpose of him going through the process was to control Hashirama. :leaf:

To control someone with the rods following are needed:

- Need to be stronger than the person you are controlling

- If not that then the person who you want to control needs to be weakened (just like current Hashirama).

This is shown when Nagato tried to control Naruto with the black rod but failed due to the 9-tails chakra which was stronger than a weakened Nagato's chakra.

When Hashirama restrained Madara he wasn't that weakened, in fact he was fighting and putting down Madara, so there is NO WAY for Madara to control Hashirama with the rods, because its useless. However, with Madara being revived he gets all the power back while Hashirama becomes weaker (for some reason).. enabling Madara to restrain Hashirama now.

Madara fans saying he didn't try against Hashirama.. because Hashirama got him into a state where he couldn't try anything against Hashirama, is kind of going against Madara's personality and his character.

The only issue with this is while Hashirama may not have been that weakened to you, he was clearly weakened by time we saw him, and on top of that, he was never at 100% power to start with. Even while Madara was tied down and chakra was drained, he was still visibly fine, so it's safe to say that he wasn't weakened before he was tied down. So basically, like it's been established through 4 pages of comments, no one knows the real reason why Madara didn't control him right away. Hell we don't even know if he even TRIED to control him right away. But what you present is still a possibility.

I just think you hashi fans really get to riled up at Madara fans. It's like you guys are trying to make every Madara fan up here all say put their hands over their heart and in a loud, clear voice say Hashi>Madara.

I think the main problem is the inconsistent way Kishimoto writes about Madara.

True he's done that with a few characters but I think Madara is the worst. I guess it's because Madara is such a big character to the plot that it's tough to make him one way all the time. Like at times he needed to be over concerned with Hashirama in order to show the relationship and rivalry between them and build up hype for a showdown with them. But now it seems in order to make for a better climax moment, he needed Madara to seem more apathetic and collected

 

[Senju Bean]

I doubt we will ever get an explanation as to why he didn't use the rod to control Hashirama. Nothing indicates that he could not use it, Nagato was able to use it from a distance and Madara has been shown to be more skilled than he so it is likely just plot. From what I can formulate, it is implied that he didn't want to use it from his dialogue, as I said. But I don't know. Nor am I interesting in knowing because controlling Hashirama is kinda of a cop out of a real battle which will not occur between the two.


Edit:
I do acknowledge that he was immobilized but we don't know how so I can't say anything about that and neither can you, to do so would be speculation.

Considering that he completely resisted Edo Tensei's control, something that is supposed to be nearly absolute , I can see why he resisted the rods.

 

[KingHashirama]

The only issue with this is while Hashirama may not have been that weakened to you, he was clearly weakened by time we saw him, and on top of that, he was never at 100% power to start with. Even while Madara was tied down and chakra was drained, he was still visibly fine, so it's safe to say that he wasn't weakened before he was tied down. So basically, like it's been established through 4 pages of comments, no one knows the real reason why Madara didn't control him right away. Hell we don't even know if he even TRIED to control him right away. But what you present is still a possibility.

I just think you hashi fans really get to riled up at Madara fans. It's like you guys are trying to make every Madara fan up here all say put their hands over their heart and in a loud, clear voice say Hashi>Madara.



True he's done that with a few characters but I think Madara is the worst. I guess it's because Madara is such a big character to the plot that it's tough to make him one way all the time. Like at times he needed to be over concerned with Hashirama in order to show the relationship and rivalry between them and build up hype for a showdown with them. But now it seems in order to make for a better climax moment, he needed Madara to seem more apathetic and collected

Only problem is visibly fine doesn't = you have stronger chakra.. Madara wasn't moving at that moment. Hashirama was since the heavy breathing. The problem here is the logic is being twisted and the burden of proof is put upon the ones who are simply going by Madara's own actions and statements, that he wanted to get control over Hashirama. Going by Madara's personality getting owned by Hashirama and sitting back while he rubs it in your face is not acceptable. However, the thing is Madara didn't have to worry about it, because of Zetsu. And this is what most people take it as "he wasn't trying".. no he simply didn't have to worry.

I only defend Hashirama when he is bashed, i really don't bother that much if people think Madara > Hashirama.. and plus if the reasoning behind it is weak..

Actually Madara is the one who kishimoto has favored with the plot. Madara is one of the most consistent characters of the series in regards to villains. Only difference is that the fans don't understand the deep meanings behind his actions or attitude. For example , against Obito when Obito became the jinchuriki.. people started saying Madara doesn't give a f*ck but the thing is her had a back up plan.

I mean hell Madara fans are now saying Current Madara is number 1.. when in reality he is weaker compared to VOTE Madara.. come on man..

 

[Harry Balzac]

Madara took a shit all over Hashirama. Thank goodness, Hashirama boys were getting spoiled.

 

[Murasame]

lol too much fanboying

Nah he's right he wasn't revived at full power.. you Madara fans and bandwagoners are getting out of hand lmao

 

[KingHashirama]

Madara took a shit all over Hashirama. Thank goodness, Hashirama boys were getting spoiled.

Though it was the Hashirama boys who predicted the outcome.