Madara/Hashirama PROBLEM

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Does Madara and Hashirama's pure existence in the show ruin the entire point of one of the stories main themes?

"The next generation will always surpass the previous one" - Kakashi Hatake

This was a big theme for a LONG time in the show and we were watching Naruto & Sasuke's growth to fulfil this but now the current arc completely contradicts this. Not only are Madara and Hashirama hopelessly stronger than apparently anyone from this generation but the Hokages are actually getting weaker from generation to generation. So...pick one Kishimoto and stick with it because now we're getting:

"The next generation only Naruto & Sasuke may or may not surpass the previous generation?" - Masashi Kishimoto

 

[PredictionGuru]

"The next generation only Naruto & Sasuke specifically may or may not surpass the previous generation?" - Masashi Kishimoto

=D Haha .

 

[spade3dg]

Made something like this a while ago. Get your flame jacket on lol.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Made something like this a while ago. Get your flame jacket on lol.

I honestly don't think anyone really cares anymore :')

It's national Minato week yknow.

 

[doubledude]

Naruto and Sasuke will suprass Hashirama and Madara.

 

[zamki]

I honestly don't think anyone really cares anymore :')

It's national Minato week yknow.

lol this.

 

[Punk Hazard]

That was never a theme, that was, like, two characters' opinion.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Naruto and Sasuke will suprass Hashirama and Madara.

But this still totally destroys the theme. It's still just Naruto and Sasuke only and naruto history is still slowly descending as they keep losing more and more of the Senju genes rather than the idea that the future progresses and there might even be a chance for peace in the future. I mean, which one is better- really?

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

That was never a theme, that was, like, two characters' opinion.

It was the entire reasoning as to why Naruto would go on to surpass literally every single one of his teachers (Kakashi, Jiraiya & Bee) in the space of like 3 arcs.

 

[Retsu]

That was never a theme, that was, like, two characters' opinion.

I agree with this, it was never really implied everyone from the current generation would pass those 2.

 

[AllomnisymbolsparttwoT]

Yeh the next generation HAS surpassed the past generation, its not only to be looked at in strength but also in the works the new generation did, for example. the old generation like madara and hashirama carried on the curse of hatred endless fighting, the new ones naruto and sasuke seem to be in union and seemingly for now has stop the endless fighting and the curse of hatred, sasuke wanting to protect konoha and all..

Naruto has become one with the kyuubi, something kushina(yeh thats right! suck it kushina fans! >:I) and mito COULD NOT DO, haha! killer bee became one with gyuki something Ay cousin could not do and it go on and on with yagura and han.etc young new generations who did things the past generation FAILED TO DO.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Yeh the next generation HAS surpassed the past generation, its not only to be looked at in strength but also in the works the new generation did, for example. the old generation like madara and hashirama carried on the curse of hatred endless fighting, the new ones naruto and sasuke seem to be in union and seemingly for now has stop the endless fighting and the curse of hatred, sasuke wanting to protect konoha and all..

Disagree. It's an interesting idea and it's what Kishi was presumably setting up but things really haven't improved enough to make that statement. I mean in the last few years there's been genocide, evil politics, several war threats with other villages (Cloud Village with the Hyuuga & Sand's help with the Sound Village Invasion) they're literally in a war right now that will determine the outcome of the entire world. Things really aren't that much better.

Naruto has become one with the kyuubi, something kushina(yeh thats right! suck it kushina fans! >:I) and mito COULD NOT DO, haha! killer bee became one with gyuki something Ay cousin could not do and it go on and on with yagura and han.etc young new generations who did things the past generation FAILED TO DO.

Another good point but it really is just Naruto and Sasuke doing all this, the current generation are completely oblivious.

 

[Punk Hazard]

It was the entire reasoning as to why Naruto would go on to surpass literally every single one of his teachers (Kakashi, Jiraiya & Bee) in the space of like 3 arcs.

No, he surpassed them because the plot called for it, being that he's the main character.

Can you show me where at least three people have said this?

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

No, he surpassed them because the plot called for it, being that he's the main character.

Can you show me where at least three people have said this?

It just seems like an odd thing for the writer to state and then bring up again if they weren't planning to go anywhere with it. The quote literally bookended the Rasenshuriken training arc.

 

[hashirama1]

well, surpassing does not only mean pure strength

 

[Punk Hazard]

It just seems like an odd thing for the writer to state and then bring up again if they weren't planning to go anywhere with it. The quote literally bookended the Rasenshuriken training arc.

Like I said, it was just an opinion of Kakashi and someone else who I can't currently remember.

It's not really a theme.

 

[l3m0npl3dg3]

So very true

 

[Draphsin]

well.....technically naruto & sasuke are the next generation of hashi & madara. Theres no real contradiction here

The sage >>> Anyone currently too, did he ruin the story?

 

[AllomnisymbolsparttwoT]

Disagree. It's an interesting idea and it's what Kishi was presumably setting up but things really haven't improved enough to make that statement. I mean in the last few years there's been genocide, evil politics, several war threats with other villages (Cloud Village with the Hyuuga & Sand's help with the Sound Village Invasion) they're literally in a war right now that will determine the outcome of the entire world. Things really aren't that much better.


Another good point but it really is just Naruto and Sasuke doing all this, the current generation are completely oblivious.

hm dude, the shinobi alliance is every village coming together something the past generation could not do, dude check out gaara's speech, we saw shinobi's from other countries coming together as one and forgiving each other for past rivalry How is that not improving?? you're looking at it in a strength base, yeah in a war TOGETHER AS ONE, against madara and juubi, the sand vs konoha was the past now we see sand and konoha kazekage and hokage teaming up and working together to fight madara thats A HUGE IMPROVMENT! :I

thats THE SO CALLED THEME. naruto and sasuke IS BREAKING THE CURSE OF HATRED, the current generation did what i stated above, rising above the hate and working together

 

[YellowFang]

It's specifically only about Sasuke and Naruto...
And still only Naruto might ascend beyond Hashirama/Madara's level IMO...

They have been declared legends, something that shouldn't be exceeded just because they were in old generations...