[Spoilers] Madara does not know about the full power of Sasuke's eye [w/PROOF]

[kuro zetsu sama]

look screw the rinnegan or this new dojutsu i could care less, kishi needs to show sauske using woood release on hashirama or madara level so anti sauce fans can convert XD

The thirst is real.

 

[InvaderRaz]

Spoiler

One of the most controversials Narutoverse's mysteries have been revealed in the last chapter. Problem is, while there is no Viz version, I cannot be entirely sure about this, but I'll use what I have at hand in order to build this thread.

I'll try to put things right in track: Chapter 673 - Madara called Sasuke's power a "Rinnegan" (which was something that put me in a state of alert, because this Rinnegan had tomoes).

Spoiler

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Okay. That's Madara for you.

The fundamental issue I see in Madara's statement is that this eye was already recognized by someone before, someone who has far more knowledge about the source of chakra than Madara: Hagoromo Ootsutsuki.

Spoiler

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If you saw Hagoromo's statement about Kaguya's eyes you should already noticed it. He called this eye a "Sharingan", even when this eye had the ripple patterns, meaning that the true source of the Rinnegan is the Sharingan, and not the other way.

Hagoromo has far more knowledge about this eye than Madara, for obvious reasons. Hagoromo's mother was the former human wielder of the 9-Tomoe Sharingan, and Hagoromo even knew about the Infinite Tsukiyomi's methods.

This said, Madara clearly does not know about the full extent of Sasuke's new eye.

Any thoughts?

Second photo isn't showing up for me... I get your point about him not knowing it's full power but wasn't the title of that chapter "sasuke's rinnegan" ?? Clearly Kishi considers it a rinnegan and not a sharigan... In my eyes it seems to go Tomed Rinnegan (Sasuke/Kaygua/Rikkudo Madara)>>> Rinnegan (Nagato/Hago/Madara/Obito) >[Byakugan (Kaguya/Hamura/Hyuga)]>> Sharigan

Side note, I can't believe it took me until right now to notice how similar kaguya sounds to hyuga ahah

 

[minamoto]

One of the most controversials Narutoverse's mysteries have been revealed in the last chapter. Problem is, while there is no Viz version, I cannot be entirely sure about this, but I'll use what I have at hand in order to build this thread.

I'll try to put things right in track: Chapter 673 - Madara called Sasuke's power a "Rinnegan" (which was something that put me in a state of alert, because this Rinnegan had tomoes).

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Okay. That's Madara for you.

The fundamental issue I see in Madara's statement is that this eye was already recognized by someone before, someone who has far more knowledge about the source of chakra than Madara: Hagoromo Ootsutsuki.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

If you saw Hagoromo's statement about Kaguya's eyes you should already noticed it. He called this eye a "Sharingan", even when this eye had the ripple patterns, meaning that the true source of the Rinnegan is the Sharingan, and not the other way.

Hagoromo has far more knowledge about this eye than Madara, for obvious reasons. Hagoromo's mother was the former human wielder of the 9-Tomoe Sharingan, and Hagoromo even knew about the Infinite Tsukiyomi's methods.

This said, Madara clearly does not know about the full extent of Sasuke's new eye.

Any thoughts?

Madara knows all sharingan secrets..he was the 1st one to unlock MS...but each sharingan user has his sharingan own unique abilities...like madara has limbos....obito has teleportation.....so sasuke is gonna at least have 1 or 2 new sharingan thechniques that even madara ouwldn't reconize...but same thing be said on sasuke ..becuz madara has also unique sharingan abilties new to sasuk's knowledge...to sum it up...that is not weakness...its just part of sharingan many abilities

 

[Mr Hiru]

Madara knows all sharingan secrets..he was the 1st one to unlock MS...but each sharingan user has his sharingan own unique abilities...like madara has limbos....obito has teleportation.....so sasuke is gonna at least have 1 or 2 new sharingan thechniques that even madara ouwldn't reconize...but same thing be said on sasuke ..becuz madara has also unique sharingan abilties new to sasuk's knowledge...to sum it up...that is not weakness...its just part of sharingan many abilities

Sadly for those people who defied my logic, this theory came to be true.

Madara did not know about the full extent of the power of Sasuke's new eye.

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"He didn't--- simply move...!" > This description is way too raw for someone who knows about these powers.

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"He can probably see it thanks to the Rinnegan" > "Probably?" This only means that Madara is creating an hypothesis in middle of the battle.

Ergo, as I said earlier, Madara did not know about the full extent of Sasuke's new eye.

 

[Lord Prime Hiruzen]

Well, so far, it's only shown Sharingan-like abilities. (ST jutsu, IT, amateratsu etc)

Nothing resembaling 6 paths ablitites

 

[minamoto]

Sadly for those people who defied my logic, this theory came to be true.

Madara did not know about the full extent of the power of Sasuke's new eye.

You must be registered for see links

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"He didn't--- simply move...!" > This description is way too raw for someone who knows about these powers.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

"He can probably see it thanks to the Rinnegan" > "Probably?" This only means that Madara is creating an hypothesis in middle of the battle.

Ergo, as I said earlier, Madara did not know about the full extent of Sasuke's new eye.

dude i didnt say u were wrong and i didnt defy u
..

i was just clarfyin something

 

[minamoto]

Agreed;madara will be surprised once again

in ur sig they portray rikudo as handsome....but then in manga he is...

 

[osba]

I like to believe that, even with kaguya Being the progenitor of chakra, she does not have all dojutsu/bloodline-limit powers... So far every mangekyo sharingan has had its own techniques and i think that this is because they are all unique, being created by mutation that is influenced by the user's fenotype.
And so, i also think that nobody knows the abilities sasuke might develop from this eye.

 

[Klue]

Sadly for those people who defied my logic, this theory came to be true.

According to your original post, your theory suggested that Sasuke's eye isn't a Rinnegan. You even went on to deny the relationship between the two doujutsu: Rinnegan's ability to utilize Sharingan powers.

Since 673, this eye was called a Rinnegan on multiple occasions. Sasuke and Black Zetsu being the two key examples. Amaterasu was utilized by Sasuke's Rinnegan.

The answer is pretty clear.

Madara did not know about the full extent of the power of Sasuke's new eye.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

"He didn't--- simply move...!" > This description is way too raw for someone who knows about these powers.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

"He can probably see it thanks to the Rinnegan" > "Probably?" This only means that Madara is creating an hypothesis in middle of the battle.

Ergo, as I said earlier, Madara did not know about the full extent of Sasuke's new eye.

No one expects Madara to be aware of all of the eye's capabilities, but to fail to recognize what it is on sight?

Ridiculous.

And another thing, according to VIZ, Madara stated clearly that Sasuke could see his Limbo thanks to his Rinnegan. Not that it's important.

 

[Xāvî1]

This is more clear than daylight, no need to show proof or even make a thread about it. The people saying otherwise are the 10-16 age range of users here on the base.

Well i second this!!

 

[NaruSasuRival]

One of the most controversials Narutoverse's mysteries have been revealed in the last chapter. Problem is, while there is no Viz version, I cannot be entirely sure about this, but I'll use what I have at hand in order to build this thread.

I'll try to put things right in track: Chapter 673 - Madara called Sasuke's power a "Rinnegan" (which was something that put me in a state of alert, because this Rinnegan had tomoes).

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Okay. That's Madara for you.

The fundamental issue I see in Madara's statement is that this eye was already recognized by someone before, someone who has far more knowledge about the source of chakra than Madara: Hagoromo Ootsutsuki.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

If you saw Hagoromo's statement about Kaguya's eyes you should already noticed it. He called this eye a "Sharingan", even when this eye had the ripple patterns, meaning that the true source of the Rinnegan is the Sharingan, and not the other way.

Hagoromo has far more knowledge about this eye than Madara, for obvious reasons. Hagoromo's mother was the former human wielder of the 9-Tomoe Sharingan, and Hagoromo even knew about the Infinite Tsukiyomi's methods.

This said, Madara clearly does not know about the full extent of Sasuke's new eye.

Any thoughts?

Wrong logic, bro. Sharingan is not the source of Rinnegan. Rather, the sharingan Sasuke and Kaguya have is a subset of the Rinnegan. See, when someone has Hagoromo's Rinnegan, it suffice for them to go close to the moon, and the eye Sasuke has will appear in their forehead.

Using simple logic, Hagoromo's Rinnegan is the greatest dojutsu of the manga. Unlike people who have no reasoning skill, Kishi has made clear that Rikudo did not get his Rinnegan from his mother. It is yet to reveal how Rikudo got his Rinnegan. I also believe that Sasuke's eye is far inferior to Hagoromo's Rinnegan. Otherwise, Sasuke would not be able to control it just as Obito couldn't. And please don't say Obito was weak, because Obito was able to control Juubi.

 

[Klue]

You think, Hagoromo's Rinnegan is better than the eye of the Shinju?

Alright, I'm out of here.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Wrong logic, bro. Sharingan is not the source of Rinnegan. Rather, the sharingan Sasuke and Kaguya have is a subset of the Rinnegan. See, when someone has Hagoromo's Rinnegan, it suffice for them to go close to the moon, and the eye Sasuke has will appear in their forehead.

Using simple logic, Hagoromo's Rinnegan is the greatest dojutsu of the manga. Unlike people who have no reasoning skill, Kishi has made clear that Rikudo did not get his Rinnegan from his mother. It is yet to reveal how Rikudo got his Rinnegan. I also believe that Sasuke's eye is far inferior to Hagoromo's Rinnegan. Otherwise, Sasuke would not be able to control it just as Obito couldn't. And please don't say Obito was weak, because Obito was able to control Juubi.

Please, elaborate. I'd like to understand what are you trying to say with that.

From my part, I can say that in first place, we never saw Madara using a Sharingan Ability while using his Rinnegan until chapter 673+, proving wrong all things about Rinnegan being an eye capable to use Sharingan abilities until this point (It's possible, but there is not positive proof to back up this statement before chapter 673+), even if it was told that the Rinnegan could be the sources of all jutsus out there (this was just folklore).

Speaking about positives, we only saw the "Purple Rinnegan" being capable to use Six Paths jutsus, and that's all. We never saw any Kagutsuchi, Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu, Kamui, or anything like that.

This said, we can discard any kind of time relationship between these two doujutsus for the time being.

According to your original post, your theory suggested that Sasuke's eye isn't a Rinnegan. You even went on to deny the relationship between the two doujutsu: Rinnegan's ability to utilize Sharingan powers.

Well, last chapters spoke about the "Purple Rinnegan" being the manifestation of Hagoromo's Chakra (Ashura + Indra), an special case. But a common sharingan is not related to this case. Only AND ONLY a transmigrant could awake Hagoromo's Purple Rinnegan. Any Uchiha could have his sharingan, but even with Senju DNA/Chakra his sharingan would never been changed into a Purple Rinnegan.

This said, that the "Red Rinnegan" (awakened by Sasuke and Kaguya) was way above Hagoromo's Rinnegan (which was awakened by Madara when he combined the transmigrants chakra).

And well, Hagoromo said that Kaguya could use Sharingan powers. Hagoromo never shown this feature, meaning that relating his Rinnegan towards any kind of sharingan power can't be proved for the time being.

You can only say that with Kaguya/Sasuke Red Rinnegan. How could you say that Madara could have any kind of intel about this Red Rinnegan in this chapter, when he was not showing any sign of having a Red Rinnegan in his forehead? (this was the question behind the theory)

Since 673, this eye was called a Rinnegan on multiple occasions. Sasuke and Black Zetsu being the two key examples. Amaterasu was utilized by Sasuke's Rinnegan.

The answer is pretty clear.

Red Rinnegan, as I shall put emphasis. Even if this was an special doujutsu (call it sharingan or rinnegan, due the ambigüity of powers), the name isn't important, the important thing in this topic is that this eye is special (I guess this is the main reason on why your rebuttal fails... because the title of the thread clearly made emphasis on the intel of the parties, but you were doing rebuttal towards the dilema of which one was the first: the egg or the chicken, and the answer was the reptile... xD)

No one expects Madara to be aware of all of the eye's capabilities, but to fail to recognize what it is on sight?

Ridiculous.

As I said already, the title of the thread was the important thing here. The focus of this theory was to debate about Madara's intel about Sasuke's new powers. He didn't know, he had to learn.

The problem was if Madara already knew about Sasuke's new power or he didn't. Well, he didn't, that's all we were discussing. You extended in something that you believed, but that was not the focus point of the important matter.

And another thing, according to VIZ, Madara stated clearly that Sasuke could see his Limbo thanks to his Rinnegan. Not that it's important.

And finally, I can agree with something with you, since this was the first paragraph of my theory:

One of the most controversials Narutoverse's mysteries have been revealed in the last chapter. Problem is, while there is no Viz version, I cannot be entirely sure about this, but I'll use what I have at hand in order to build this thread.

Now there it is, and you confirmed it. Thanks, now we can say it was a Rinnegan.
(Sorry for being an ass in this matter, but I don't like to create theories when there are no hard sources to trust on).