[Spoilers] Madara does not know about the full power of Sasuke's eye [w/PROOF]

[Mr Hiru]

One of the most controversials Narutoverse's mysteries have been revealed in the last chapter. Problem is, while there is no Viz version, I cannot be entirely sure about this, but I'll use what I have at hand in order to build this thread.

I'll try to put things right in track: Chapter 673 - Madara called Sasuke's power a "Rinnegan" (which was something that put me in a state of alert, because this Rinnegan had tomoes).

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Okay. That's Madara for you.

The fundamental issue I see in Madara's statement is that this eye was already recognized by someone before, someone who has far more knowledge about the source of chakra than Madara: Hagoromo Ootsutsuki.

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If you saw Hagoromo's statement about Kaguya's eyes you should already noticed it. He called this eye a "Sharingan", even when this eye had the ripple patterns, meaning that the true source of the Rinnegan is the Sharingan, and not the other way.

Hagoromo has far more knowledge about this eye than Madara, for obvious reasons. Hagoromo's mother was the former human wielder of the 9-Tomoe Sharingan, and Hagoromo even knew about the Infinite Tsukiyomi's methods.

This said, Madara clearly does not know about the full extent of Sasuke's new eye.

Any thoughts?

 

[Sir Blades]

This is more clear than daylight, no need to show proof or even make a thread about it. The people saying otherwise are the 10-16 age range of users here on the base.

 

[ultraChalk]

Hmm, I never thought about it that way. Good points.

Interesting that what we thought was a Rinnegan with Tomoes, was actually a Sharingan with ripples. But if this was the case, and the influence of the Sharingan was stronger than the Rinnegan, why was the Sage born with the Rinnegan, rather than the Sharingan?

This is more clear than daylight, no need to show proof or even make a thread about it. The people saying otherwise are the 10-16 age range of users here on the base.

There was more detail to the thread than the thread title.

 

[3MESSIAH]

Agreed;madara will be surprised once again

 

[Tsukuyomi94]

Ik there was something wrong with that statement madara made, it had me lost all this morning

 

[Faceplant911]

You know, I am in the 10-16 range, but everything that you guys say and the manga says makes perfect sense? Why do you think that?

 

[Mr Hiru]

Hmm, I never thought about it that way. Good points.

Interesting that what we thought was a Rinnegan with Tomoes, was actually a Sharingan with ripples. But if this was the case, and the influence of the Sharingan was stronger than the Rinnegan, why was the Sage born with the Rinnegan, rather than the Sharingan?

There was more detail to the thread than the thread title.

Sincerely, I could not state anything as a fact, but I can still do some speculation.

Chapter 510 gives you some insight about what is the Yin Yang Release - Creation of All Things, and it explains the properties of Yin and Yang powers.

Chapter 462 also explains the properties behind his sons powers, which were essentially the same of the previously mentioned technique (The Elder one got the Eyes and the Yin, while the Younger one got the Body and the Yang, main reason of why the Elder one had far more proficency in the use of Ninshuu).

Now the speculation (do not believe me on this one, this is just a hunch):

Kaguya got a Byakugan (which I believe is a Yang doujutsu) and the Sharingan (a Yin doujutsu).

When Kaguya got her sons, Hagoromo got the balance of both doujutsus and thus the power of each doujutsu thinned, creating the Rinnegan.

With the technique Creation of All Things, the Elder Son inherited the Yin properties of the Rinnegan and also got the Sage's Eyes, leaving him the possibility for him and his lineage to inherit the lesser version of the Sharingan from birth. Henceforth, the Younger son inherited the Yang properties of the Rinnegan and also got the Sage's Body, leaving him the possibility of him and his lineage being compatible to be a Jinchuuriki.

That's how I see it for now until new information is given.

 

[Prime Rib]

look screw the rinnegan or this new dojutsu i could care less, kishi needs to show sauske using woood release on hashirama or madara level so anti sauce fans can convert XD

 

[Joon]

Hmm, I never thought about it that way. Good points.

Interesting that what we thought was a Rinnegan with Tomoes, was actually a Sharingan with ripples. But if this was the case, and the influence of the Sharingan was stronger than the Rinnegan, why was the Sage born with the Rinnegan, rather than the Sharingan?

There was more detail to the thread than the thread title.

This all points to what Kabuto has done medically to Sasuke.

 

[Tantalus Thief]

I'm confused as to what the F**K the eye is. I'm thinking Rinnegan but the Sage says it a Sharingan, I'm thinking Sharingan Madara says it is a Rinnegan. I think it's both a Rinnesharingan, the ripple patterns and tomoe.

 

[beast7960]

Hmm, I never thought about it that way. Good points.

Interesting that what we thought was a Rinnegan with Tomoes, was actually a Sharingan with ripples. But if this was the case, and the influence of the Sharingan was stronger than the Rinnegan, why was the Sage born with the Rinnegan, rather than the Sharingan?

There was more detail to the thread than the thread title.

Sage probably was born with the Rinnegan the same way his two son's were born with half his powers. Each of Kaguya's sons had half of her power, so instead of the 9 Tomoe sharingan, one of them had the Rinnegan we come to know (which is the juubi eye minus the tomoe), and maybe the other inherited the byakugan. So it went like this, 9 tomoe sharingan - offspring inherit half that power - Rinnegan - offspring have half of that power - 3 tomoe sharingan.

 

[EmbraceNixFifty]

I agree with OP.

 

[Rikudo SenninKun Namikaze]

after seeing what naruto did during this chapter... i cannot wait to see sasuke's power ups

 

[Klue]

Read what Hagoromo says very carefully. As slowly as possible, even.

"Also possessed the Sharingan'S POWER.


Hagoromo did not call that eye the Sharingan. Madara literally did name it this chapter.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Read what Hagoromo says very carefully. As slowly as possible, even.

"Also possessed the Sharingan'S POWER.


Hagoromo did not call that eye the Sharingan. Madara literally did so this chapter.

I did a lot of times, and I came to the conclusion that it was a Sharingan.

It would not make any sense to tell that Kaguya had the Sharingan's POWER when (under your perspective) she had a Rinnegan and a Byakugan, and not a Sharingan.

Henceforth, she had a Sharingan.

 

[Klue]

I did a lot of times, and I came to the conclusion that it was a Sharingan.

It would not make any sense to tell that Kaguya had the Sharingan's POWER when (under your perspective) she had a Rinnegan and a Byakugan, and not a Sharingan.

Henceforth, she had a Sharingan.

Ocular genjutsu is a power associated with the Sharingan. Which is why he said "Sharingan's power."

Not that complicated.

So what she had, is two Byakugan, and a single Rinnegan that has Sharingan power.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Ocular genjutsu is a power associated with the Sharingan. Which is why he said "Sharingan's power."

Not that complicated.

So what she had, is two Byakugan, and a single Rinnegan that has Sharingan power.

In that case, it's your own interpretation against my logic. An impasse until clearified (you're in disadventage in this one, a Rinnegan doesn't have Tomoes, and Hagoromo was talking contextually).

Finally and to be clear, your statement of a Rinnegan having the Sharingan's Power is something that you made up. Nobody have used Sharingan powers with a Rinnegan (and no, Madara's Susano'o is not the case, he even used Susano'o without eyes).

Anyways, I already stated in this topic that I lack the proper source to state anything as definite until I have access to the Viz/RAW.

 

[Klue]

In that case, it's your own interpretation against my logic. An impasse until clearified (you're in disadventage in this one, a Rinnegan doesn't have Tomoes, and Hagoromo was talking contextually).

Madara himself, actually calls it a Rinnegan, where Hagoromo did not actually give it a name, but I'm the one at a disadvantage?

Lol, this guy.

Finally and to be clear, your statement of a Rinnegan having the Sharingan's Power is something that you made up.

It's not something I made up.

WTF?

Madara called it a Rinnegan, no?
Hagoromo said it possessed Sharingan's power, right?

Nobody have used Sharingan powers with a Rinnegan (and no, Madara's Susano'o is not the case, he even used Susano'o without eyes).

So I guess, Madara did not see through Naruto's Shadow Clone technique, in the same way he used his Sharingan to see through Hashirama's Wood Clone in the past, right?

EMS saw through Wood Clone

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Rinnegan sees through Shadow Clone

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[Mr Hiru]

Are you assuming that Madara has more knowledge than Hagoromo in something that Madara himself has not seen physically?

So if Madara tells that Kaguya's Eye is a Rinnegan and Hagoromo says she used the Sharingan's power, then she has a Rinnegan, and not a Sharingan, as Hagoromo hinted?

Are you realizing that Madara's statement about Sasuke's eyes is speculation?



Man, take a rest, an entire day and analyze as calm as you can what you're telling me (Or bring me proof that you can use Sharingan's Genjutsu with a Rinnegan, and that Hagoromo stated that Kaguya has a Rinnegan).

Until then... my point stands.

PS: Your statements about Rinnegan/EMS looking through clones is invalid. Byakugan and Sharingan can see chakra network, but these are not the same doujutsu.

 

[Klue]

Are you assuming that Madara has more knowledge than Hagoromo in something that Madara himself has not seen physically?

No, I'm saying that Madara did not contradict Hagoromo. In fact, he is giving us more detail / expanding upon what was already told to us.

You're the one that is creating this contradiction.

So if Madara tells that Kaguya's Eye is a Rinnegan and Hagoromo says she used the Sharingan's power, then she has a Rinnegan, and not a Sharingan, as Hagoromo hinted?

Apparently, he did not hint it to be a Sharingan - your brain lead you to a false conclusion. You were speculating.

Are you realizing that Madara's statement about Sasuke's eyes is speculation?

No, what you're saying is speculation.

Hagoromo said it has Sharingan's power, and nothing more. You decided that it must mean, the eye is a Sharingan. Now when someone actually gives it a name, you're calling foul.

Man, take a rest, an entire day and analyze as calm as you can what you're telling me (Or bring me proof that you can use Sharingan's Genjutsu with a Rinnegan, and that Hagoromo stated that Kaguya has a Rinnegan).

I don't have to.

Manga says it literally is a Rinnegan.
Manga says it literally possess Sharinga's power.

Until then... my point stands.

Clearly doesn't.

PS: Your statements about Rinnegan/EMS looking through clones is invalid. Byakugan and Sharingan can see chakra network, but these are not the same doujutsu.

My God.

Madara very clearly states, that HIS ocular power made him the ONLY ONE capable of seeing through Hashirama's Wood Clones.

His Rinnegan is seeing through Naruto's Shadow Clone.

Did Neji's Byakugan see through Naruto's Shadow Clones?

No.

You have no argument.