Madara and Izuna were not equals

[6ari8]

No they were not equals. There is a reason Madara was the clan leader. Madara and Izuna's relationship is similar to Hashirama and Tobirama's relationship. Hashirama being (much) stronger than Tobirama.

Tobirama was able to defeat Izuna. However, it's been heavily implied that he couldn't defeat Madara. If they were equals, Tobirama would've been able to defeat Madara.

 

[TheTailedSage]

No they were not equals. There is a reason Madara was the clan leader. Madara and Izuna's relationship is similar to Hashirama and Tobirama's relationship. Hashirama being (much) stronger than Tobirama.

Tobirama was able to defeat Izuna. However, it's been heavily implied that he couldn't defeat Madara. If they were equals, Tobirama would've been able to defeat Madara.

He was most probably clan leader because he is older, thus more experience. Age and experience has a lot to do with it in the uchiha way

 

[RikudouMadara]

I was very careful with my words about the eyes. I said in terms of movement prediction they were about the same, that would go without saying if they were "said" to be equal. The MS techs have got nothing to do with what i was saying so im not disputing what you said about the techs.

Gaining MS is a funny thing really becausse from what we have seen, sasuke didnt actually kill anyone to gain his MS. He technically didnt actuallly kill itachi if you think about it, he was ill and had loss of chakra. He didnt physically kill him, plus even if he did, it was waaaaaay after that is when he got MS. So Its safe to say that Its enough to see the death of someone your care about to gain MS. Madara and Izuna didnt have to necessarily kill anyone in my logic, they only had to see a traumatizing death. If we go by your logic about killing in order to gain MS ill ask this: did itachi look like a killer before the uchiha massacre? He loved his clan but he loved his brother more and Tobirama even said himself that Uchiha go corrupted because of love so its plausible that they killed someone dispite our knowledge on their personality.

The fact of the matter is, Izuna didnt see the FTG coming which means madara most probably wouldn't of seen it coming either because being a better person doesn't necessarily mean better eye prediction.

I know that right now hashirama is stronger than tobirama but show me a scan that proves that back then, hashi was stronger than Tobirama. Its possible but even if hashi is on another level, it means he would have taken madara with ease, which he didn't.



BBecause you fear someone it doesn't mean that they are stronger than you. Itachi and kisame fled when they saw jiraiya, It doesn't mean they BOTH are inferior to him

They didn't fear The Pervy Sage though...also doesn't Kisame imply that Itachi could have beaten The Pervy Sage?

 

[TheTailedSage]

They didn't fear The Pervy Sage though...also doesn't Kisame imply that Itachi could have beaten The Pervy Sage?

When did he imply that? and even so it would prove my point about the fear thing. Just because you run from something doesnt mean you fear it

 

[Touken]

But we are talking about 2 people here. He claims that Izuna and Madara are equals because Tobirama defeated Izuna and Hashirama defeated Madara. Now logic only works when Tobirama is as strong as Hashirama because we heard from more than 1 person that the only one who could defeat Madara was Hashirama.

And even than it's still not clear if Madara and Izuna were equals.

I see it as this, Hashirama > EMS Madara > Tobirama > MS Madara = MS Izuna.

 

[RikudouMadara]

When did he imply that? and even so it would prove my point about the fear thing. Just because you run from something doesnt mean you fear it

They didn't out of fear or inferiority. It's clear that Tobirama was inferior, right? If mentally weaker than Hashirama then the severity of his inferiority should be all the more striking. Srry not trying to addle you, or argue. It's all just my opinion. :yayy:

 

[Twisted007]

I was very careful with my words about the eyes. I said in terms of movement prediction they were about the same, that would go without saying if they were "said" to be equal. The MS techs have got nothing to do with what i was saying so im not disputing what you said about the techs.

Gaining MS is a funny thing really becausse from what we have seen, sasuke didnt actually kill anyone to gain his MS. He technically didnt actuallly kill itachi if you think about it, he was ill and had loss of chakra. He didnt physically kill him, plus even if he did, it was waaaaaay after that is when he got MS. So Its safe to say that Its enough to see the death of someone your care about to gain MS. Madara and Izuna didnt have to necessarily kill anyone in my logic, they only had to see a traumatizing death. If we go by your logic about killing in order to gain MS ill ask this: did itachi look like a killer before the uchiha massacre? He loved his clan but he loved his brother more and Tobirama even said himself that Uchiha go corrupted because of love so its plausible that they killed someone dispite our knowledge on their personality.

The fact of the matter is, Izuna didnt see the FTG coming which means madara most probably wouldn't of seen it coming either because being a better person doesn't necessarily mean better eye prediction.

I know that right now hashirama is stronger than tobirama but show me a scan that proves that back then, hashi was stronger than Tobirama. Its possible but even if hashi is on another level, it means he would have taken madara with ease, which he didn't.



BBecause you fear someone it doesn't mean that they are stronger than you. Itachi and kisame fled when they saw jiraiya, It doesn't mean they BOTH are inferior to him

Your right, you don't need to kill your loved ones to get MS, they only need to grieve. But we know that the brothers lived in times of war, considering their personality, they most likely lost family members/friends in those clan wars and gained MS. Again, Itachi is not a reliable source on this matter.

Tobirama failing to kill Madara in the past proves two things, one Madara was stronger than Tobirama in the past and Hashirama was stronger than Tobirama since he defeated Madara. He even said it his self ''Madara this time I'll crush you''.

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[TheTailedSage]

Your right, you don't need to kill your loved ones to get MS, they only need to grieve. But we know that the brothers lived in times of war, considering their personality, they most likely lost family members/friends in those clan wars and gained MS. Again, Itachi is not a reliable source on this matter.

Tobirama failing to kill Madara in the past proves two things, one Madara was stronger than Tobirama in the past and Hashirama was stronger than Tobirama since he defeated Madara. He even said it his self ''Madara this time I'll crush you''.

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Since most famous and experienced ninja knew of Madara and his story then its more than plausable that itachi, a Uchiha who knows most if not everything about his clan, knew of madaras story. The only reason why he said he plucked his eyes out forcibly is because it suited the moment. As you saw he was forcibly plucking sasukes eyes in the gen so it was all to scare sasuke more. Its obvious.

I dont remember him trying to kill madara in the past. Could you show me a scan? and he said that because Hashirama would always persuade Tobirama not to kill him. Again, it was hashirama and his loving forgiving personality who stopped Tobirama. Thats why tobirama said "this time with my own hands, i will crush you"

They didn't out of fear or inferiority. It's clear that Tobirama was inferior, right? If mentally weaker than Hashirama then the severity of his inferiority should be all the more striking. Srry not trying to addle you, or argue. It's all just my opinion. :yayy:

I cant argue with someones opinion

 

[RNITBmsage]

hereeeeee fodder fodder fodder fodder fodder

 

[Stark]

Izuna was close to MS Madara, but not his equal imo.

 

[~Zonta~]

Izuna was powerful but he was not on par with Madara in any given circumstances at all. Plus rep for a nice thread=D

Even if Izuna had MS he was not on par with MS madara cause the following reasons :

• Izuna who was a master is sword style was never seen to use his MS to boost or do special move using it.
  
• Izuna himeself admitted that Madara was one of the most powerful Uchiha among the young ones
  
• Plus I doubt Izuna was able to control both the MS of the eyes since its the basic requirement to awaken/use Susanoo
  
• Tobirama's Flying thuder god was not developed and if with a MS Izuna should have been able to follow Tobirama's movements atleast to avoid a fatal hit but it was not the case here.
  
• Lastly next chapter titled Madara's cruelty might show something related to his brother since Izuna's death was a mystery so it would be some revelation about his death as well IMO.

 

[TheTailedSage]

Izuna was close to MS Madara, but not his equal imo.

Your picture always keeps me staring!!!!!!!!! DX

 

[Neonian]

Izuna was pretty strong I think, like come on. Everything Madara knew he would teach his brother so he won't die out there fighting.