Madara and Izuna were not equals

[Xerotes]

how many times did it say they were equals? either way, he was.

 

[~Naruto&Itachi~]

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A clone???? WOW you proved me wrong!!!!!

 

[TheTailedSage]

What does that have to do with Madara and Izuna not being equal? Dude stay on point.

Im trying to get at that IF they were equals which it has vaguely been stated and tobirama and hashi were able to defeat them (at this time hashi wasnt hokage) with mid-high diff then to pick out data from that is pretty simple. Izuna was killed, yes but madara was spared If one was stronger than the other then one would have defeated the enemy

 

[Bronze]

A clone???? WOW you proved me wrong!!!!!

where is the clone?

 

[Touken]

Guys, no point arguing with Madara Rules. He's convinced that clones are strong as the real shinobi.

When arguing with him, just use the quote in my siggy.

 

[Calpal]

madara and izuna were equals. dont hate on izuna

 

[~Naruto&Itachi~]

where is the clone?

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[Twisted007]

Im trying to get at that IF they were equals which it has vaguely been stated and tobirama and hashi were able to defeat them (at this time hashi wasnt hokage) with mid-high diff then to pick out data from that is pretty simple. Izuna was killed, yes but madara was spared If one was stronger than the other then one would have defeated the enemy

Reborn, you make no sense. First I never said that Madara surviving those fights means that he is stronger than Izuna. There is no need to say that when Izuna is clearly fanboying over Madara. Second, are you implying that being defeated by Hashirama is the same as being defeated by Tobirama and thus Tobirama=Hashirama?

 

[kunde]

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he dnt even knw whether it was a clone or not ....dude he's just happy that his god managed to fodderize the fodder clone of hashi ...dnt argue with him

 

[HashiramaIsBack]

I don't know what is the point of this?

 

[Shisui Senju]

Madra vs izuna

Itachi vs mankeyo sasuke ( not ems )

 

[Made in Heaven]

Madara Has No Equal

can't argue with this. At this point, madara really has no equal.

 

[Touken]

Reborn, you make no sense. First I never said that Madara surviving those fights means that he is stronger than Izuna. There is no need to say that when Izuna is clearly fanboying over Madara. Second, are you implying that being defeated by Hashirama is the same as being defeated by Tobirama and thus Tobirama=Hashirama?

Such silly logic.

If Konohamaru can beat Fodder #666 and Naruto can beat Fodder #666, does that mean Konohamaru is on Naruto's level?

 

[RikudouMadara]

I agree...Twisted007 is correct at all times. :yayy::yayy: I believe Izuna to be very powerful, but it is apparent imho that they were not equals. Imho Tobirama is not the level of Madara, or Hashirama.

 

[Vandenreich]

MS Izuna=MS Madara
EMS Madara> Izuna

 

[Twisted007]

Such silly logic.

If Konohamaru can beat Fodder #666 and Naruto can beat Fodder #666, does that mean Konohamaru is on Naruto's level?

But we are talking about 2 people here. He claims that Izuna and Madara are equals because Tobirama defeated Izuna and Hashirama defeated Madara. Now logic only works when Tobirama is as strong as Hashirama because we heard from more than 1 person that the only one who could defeat Madara was Hashirama.

And even than it's still not clear if Madara and Izuna were equals.

 

[TheTailedSage]

Reborn, you make no sense. First I never said that Madara surviving those fights means that he is stronger than Izuna. There is no need to say that when Izuna is clearly fanboying over Madara. Second, are you implying that being defeated by Hashirama is the same as being defeated by Tobirama and thus Tobirama=Hashirama?

Im using that fight as a factor in this, im not saying your arguing against it but If you noticed in that fight, tobirama used a move that would have baffled the likes of madara too since he also had mangyeku. Because the two had those eyes means they both had the same abilities in terms of movement prediction. If izuna got stabbed with FTG slash then whos to say madara wouldnt get slashed too? They had equal power.

Though itachi said mostly lies. This doesnt mean he was lying about a very important element to uchiha

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. What reason would he have to lie about this? This wouldnt really concern sasuke so its fair to say he was telling the truth. Plus itachi was said to have kage level at the age of 9 (i think its 9) and at this point he was more knowledgeable. I dont think he would lie about this. Though the plucking of eyes statement you made, made sense.

Madara=Izuna
Tobirama>izuna
Tobirama> Madara and Izuna (at that time? )

I can use A>B.C logic here because they were said to be equal. Madara even admitted he was inferior to hashi and later on he was trashed by hashi. You could say hashi could of brutally killed him.

 

[Twisted007]

Im using that fight as a factor in this, im not saying your arguing against it but If you noticed in that fight, tobirama used a move that would have baffled the likes of madara too since he also had mangyeku. Because the two had those eyes means they both had the same abilities in terms of movement prediction. If izuna got stabbed with FTG slash then whos to say madara wouldnt get slashed too? They had equal power.

Though itachi said mostly lies. This doesnt mean he was lying about a very important element to uchiha

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. What reason would he have to lie about this? This wouldnt really concern sasuke so its fair to say he was telling the truth. Plus itachi was said to have kage level at the age of 9 (i think its 9) and at this point he was more knowledgeable. I dont think he would lie about this. Though the plucking of eyes statement you made, made sense.

Madara=Izuna
Tobirama>izuna
Tobirama> Madara and Izuna (at that time? )

I can use A>B.C logic here because they were said to be equal. Madara even admitted he was inferior to hashi and later on he was trashed by hashi. You could say hashi could of brutally killed him.

This is the reason why I made this thread. People assume alot of things when they are comparing Madara and Izuna with no/little manga fact to back it up. Itachi said alot of things about Madara and Izuna that were neither false or iffy. For example, Madara and Izuna killed their loved ones to obtain MS, I don't know about you but to me, Madara and Izuna don't look like people who would kill their clansmen for power. We can not say that the brothers were equal with only that scan as proof.

About Izuna MS, we have no idea what kind of power Izuna had. Would that fight ended the same way if Izuna had Susano, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomie, KA ect. We don't know that. What we do know is that Madara didn't get killed by Tobirama but it was Hashirama who defeated him. And Tobirama is nowhere near Hashirama in terms of power.

And last, having the same eye doesn't mean your equal. Look at Hinata and Neji.

 

[RikudouMadara]

This is the reason why I made this thread. People assume alot of things when they are comparing Madara and Izuna with no/little manga fact to back it up. Itachi said alot of things about Madara and Izuna that were neither false or iffy. For example, Madara and Izuna killed their loved ones to obtain MS, I don't know about you but to me, Madara and Izuna don't look like people who would kill their clansmen for power. We can not say that the brothers were equal with only that scan as proof.

About Izuna MS, we have no idea what kind of power Izuna had. Would that fight ended the same way if Izuna had Susano, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomie, KA ect. We don't know that. What we do know is that Madara didn't get killed by Tobirama but it was Hashirama who defeated him. And Tobirama is nowhere near Hashirama in terms of power.

And last, having the same eye doesn't mean your equal. Look at Hinata and Neji.

So true...:yayy: During their last fight in direct combat Madara was better than Hashirama. In direct combat...even so if Tobirama is weaker than Hashirama, and during their last fight in direct combat Madara>Hashirama. Then Tobirama can't be Madaras equal as he feared Hashirama, correct?

 

[TheTailedSage]

This is the reason why I made this thread. People assume alot of things when they are comparing Madara and Izuna with no/little manga fact to back it up. Itachi said alot of things about Madara and Izuna that were neither false or iffy. For example, Madara and Izuna killed their loved ones to obtain MS, I don't know about you but to me, Madara and Izuna don't look like people who would kill their clansmen for power. We can not say that the brothers were equal with only that scan as proof.

About Izuna MS, we have no idea what kind of power Izuna had. Would that fight ended the same way if Izuna had Susano, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomie, KA ect. We don't know that. What we do know is that Madara didn't get killed by Tobirama but it was Hashirama who defeated him. And Tobirama is nowhere near Hashirama in terms of power.

And last, having the same eye doesn't mean your equal. Look at Hinata and Neji.

I was very careful with my words about the eyes. I said in terms of movement prediction they were about the same, that would go without saying if they were "said" to be equal. The MS techs have got nothing to do with what i was saying so im not disputing what you said about the techs.

Gaining MS is a funny thing really becausse from what we have seen, sasuke didnt actually kill anyone to gain his MS. He technically didnt actuallly kill itachi if you think about it, he was ill and had loss of chakra. He didnt physically kill him, plus even if he did, it was waaaaaay after that is when he got MS. So Its safe to say that Its enough to see the death of someone your care about to gain MS. Madara and Izuna didnt have to necessarily kill anyone in my logic, they only had to see a traumatizing death. If we go by your logic about killing in order to gain MS ill ask this: did itachi look like a killer before the uchiha massacre? He loved his clan but he loved his brother more and Tobirama even said himself that Uchiha go corrupted because of love so its plausible that they killed someone dispite our knowledge on their personality.

The fact of the matter is, Izuna didnt see the FTG coming which means madara most probably wouldn't of seen it coming either because being a better person doesn't necessarily mean better eye prediction.

I know that right now hashirama is stronger than tobirama but show me a scan that proves that back then, hashi was stronger than Tobirama. Its possible but even if hashi is on another level, it means he would have taken madara with ease, which he didn't.

So true...:yayy: During their last fight in direct combat Madara was better than Hashirama. In direct combat...even so if Tobirama is weaker than Hashirama, and during their last fight in direct combat Madara>Hashirama. Then Tobirama can't be Madaras equal as he feared Hashirama, correct?

BBecause you fear someone it doesn't mean that they are stronger than you. Itachi and kisame fled when they saw jiraiya, It doesn't mean they BOTH are inferior to him